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2021-22 NHL Off-season Discussion Thread - #3

28 juin 2022 à 12 h 49
#851
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Quoting: SevenLeg
Last season when the Habs were dead last in scoring and the roster was a revolving door? The lines were shuffling like crazy as the team had the most man-games lost ever since they're tracking the stat. Using a two-year sample size that fits Anderson's play since he was acquired is much more representative.

Does posting a significantly better defensive WAR than Beauvillier count as "contributing to winning games when he's not scoring"?

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Beauvillier just had the worst season of his career , like many isles forwards. I’m sure you know that Beauvillier’s 19-20 and 20-21 seasons were better than any season Anderson has had in his career. Beauvilliers defensive WAR was far better in both years than an Anderson in any season over the last 3 years.

Do you think this past season is a better indicator of Beauvilliers defensive impact or the previous 3 seasons of above average defensive play?
28 juin 2022 à 12 h 50
#852
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Quoting: Db1899
Beauvillier just had the worst season of his career , like many isles forwards. I’m sure you know that Beauvillier’s 19-20 and 20-21 seasons were better than any season Anderson has had in his career. Beauvilliers defensive WAR was far better in both years than an Anderson in any season over the last 3 years.

Do you think this past season is a better indicator of Beauvilliers defensive impact or the previous 3 seasons of above average defensive play?


That's a 3-year card my man.
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28 juin 2022 à 12 h 53
#853
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Quoting: SevenLeg
Producing at a better 5v5 rate than Beauvillier - the perfect top 6 guy.

Both would make a killer fourth line if they're paired with a guy like Nicolas Deslauriers or Matt Nieto.


Only this past season. All strengths they produced at the same rate. Prior to this season, Beauvillier produced at a higher rate 5v5
28 juin 2022 à 12 h 54
#854
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Quoting: SevenLeg
That's a 3-year card my man.


And like I said , you know that the Beauvilliers 21-22 season was abysmal which is why it drags down the 3 year impact.

Can you find me one season in Josh Andersons career that has been more impactful than either Beauvilliers 19-20 or 20-21 season?
28 juin 2022 à 12 h 56
#855
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Quoting: Db1899
Only this past season. All strengths they produced at the same rate. Prior to this season, Beauvillier produced at a higher rate 5v5


All players have ups, downs, stagnations & poor team performance - it's not just exclusive to Beauvillier. That's why taking multiple seasons sample size adds more to the debate than single-season stats.
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28 juin 2022 à 12 h 58
#856
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Quoting: SevenLeg
All players have ups, downs, stagnations & poor team performance - it's not just exclusive to Beauvillier. That's why taking multiple seasons sample size adds more to the debate than single-season stats.


Has Josh Anderson ever had a better season than Beauvilliers 19-20 or 20-21 season?
28 juin 2022 à 13 h 4
#857
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Quoting: Db1899
Has Josh Anderson ever had a better season than Beauvilliers 19-20 or 20-21 season?


Again why does it matter? It's a single season. If that's such a big deal than Beauvillier had better single seasons than a healthy-scratch level AHL grinder maybe he's not as good as people claim him to be.

But the answer is yes, he pretty much did in 18-19 when playing third line minutes with Jenner and Foligno.

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28 juin 2022 à 13 h 5
#858
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Quoting: SevenLeg
All players have ups, downs, stagnations & poor team performance - it's not just exclusive to Beauvillier. That's why taking multiple seasons sample size adds more to the debate than single-season stats.


even with Beauvillier's brutal 21-22 season, the 3 year card still proves Beauvillier is significantly better than Anderson. 14 overall is replacement level. Beauvillier Is better on the powerplay, pk and has a much better penalty differential.
28 juin 2022 à 13 h 9
#859
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Quoting: SevenLeg
Again why does it matter? It's a single season. If that's such a big deal than Beauvillier had better single seasons than a healthy-scratch level AHL grinder maybe he's not as good as people claim him to be.

But the answer is yes, he pretty much did in 18-19 when playing third line minutes with Jenner and Foligno.

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doesn't matter what 3 year sample you post, it proves Beauvillier is significantly better than Anderson. Last year was likely an anomaly , and this 3 year sample is what his impact will most likely be.

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28 juin 2022 à 13 h 9
#860
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Quoting: Db1899
even with Beauvillier's brutal 21-22 season, the 3 year card still proves Beauvillier is significantly better than Anderson. 14 overall is replacement level. Beauvillier Is better on the powerplay, pk and has a much better penalty differential.


It also proves that your biggest criticism of Anderson, that he doesn't contribute to the game when he's not scoring, is unfounded because he's posted better defensive results over that three-year span while also outproducing Beauvillier at 5v5/60 in the same span. What Beauvillier does better is driving offense, I'll give him that.
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28 juin 2022 à 13 h 15
#861
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Modifié 28 juin 2022 à 13 h 20
Quoting: SevenLeg
It also proves that your biggest criticism of Anderson, that he doesn't contribute to the game when he's not scoring, is unfounded because he's posted better defensive results over that three-year span while also outproducing Beauvillier at 5v5/60 in the same span. What Beauvillier does better is driving offense, I'll give him that.


He posted better defensive results than Beau in 1 season over the last 3 years. I would think someone who just took a shot at analytics recently would use them with context. That is also false that he outproduces Beauvillier at 5v5, two out of the last 3 seasons Beauvillier has been the better 5v5 producer.

Is Beauvillier better than Anderson on the PP and PK? What about penalty differential?
28 juin 2022 à 13 h 19
#862
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Quoting: SevenLeg
It also proves that your biggest criticism of Anderson, that he doesn't contribute to the game when he's not scoring, is unfounded because he's posted better defensive results over that three-year span while also outproducing Beauvillier at 5v5/60 in the same span. What Beauvillier does better is driving offense, I'll give him that.


Playoffs p/60

20-21

5v5
Beau: 2.11
Anderson: 1.27

All strengths
Beau: 2.32
Anderson: 1.13
28 juin 2022 à 13 h 25
#863
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Quoting: Db1899
He posted better defensive results in 1 season over the last 3 years. I would think someone who just took a shot at analytics recently would use them with context. That is also false that he outproduces Beauvillier at 5v5, two out of the last 3 seasons Beauvillier has been the better 5v5 producer.

Is Beauvillier better than Anderson on the PP and PK? What about penalty differential?


I would think someone who just took a shot at analytics recently would use them with context - Anderson plays a much more physical & hard-nosed game so obviously there is going to be a worse penalty differential but at the end of the day physicality can help win hockey games despite lowering the on-ice value of a player. Coleman & Goodrow both had negative penalty differentials and it didn't stop the Lightning to acquire them and win the Cup partly because of them. PK remains a coaching decision - Anderson played 6 minutes on the penalty kill over the past two seasons which is not nearly enough to establish a clear judgment of his abilities on it. Beauvillier is better on the PP, I agree with you on that.

But since you act like Beauvillier's down seasons are anomalies but Anderson's down seasons are the norm, I'll just leave it at that and wait to see the package they get from whatever team rightfully trades for Anderson if they trade him at all. Clearly GMs see something in him that fans don't so if he gets a package that is worthy of an AHL grinder, I'll eat my hat.



28 juin 2022 à 13 h 38
#864
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Josh Anderson is a poor mans Tom Wilson.

He's a bum.
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28 juin 2022 à 13 h 46
#865
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28 juin 2022 à 13 h 47
#866
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Quoting: Devil




Quoting: Devil




No f***ing way
It's all media hype
Shane Wright going 1st
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28 juin 2022 à 13 h 55
#867
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Quoting: MatthewsFan
Bobby Mac’s list is out





Some interesting names that are low considering how they are ranked in other publications


Interesting predicted all but #5. Would have thought it would have been Jiricek at that spot

But yeah got a feeling Slafkovsky is going first
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28 juin 2022 à 13 h 58
#868
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Quoting: SevenLeg
I would think someone who just took a shot at analytics recently would use them with context - Anderson plays a much more physical & hard-nosed game so obviously there is going to be a worse penalty differential but at the end of the day physicality can help win hockey games despite lowering the on-ice value of a player. Coleman & Goodrow both had negative penalty differentials and it didn't stop the Lightning to acquire them and win the Cup partly because of them. PK remains a coaching decision - Anderson played 6 minutes on the penalty kill over the past two seasons which is not nearly enough to establish a clear judgment of his abilities on it. Beauvillier is better on the PP, I agree with you on that.

But since you act like Beauvillier's down seasons are anomalies but Anderson's down seasons are the norm, I'll just leave it at that and wait to see the package they get from whatever team rightfully trades for Anderson if they trade him at all. Clearly GMs see something in him that fans don't so if he gets a package that is worthy of an AHL grinder, I'll eat my hat.





Just because Anderson is physical does not mean he helps his team win games. Some of the most physical players in the league are the biggest liabilities. Anderson is the forward version of Rasmus Ristolainen. Goodrow was nothing special but Coleman was a borderline elite play driver and was good on special teams. He was also good at drawing penalties.

Anderson has been at or below replacement level in 3 of the last 4 seasons. That is the norm for him. Beauvillier has been well above replacement level 3 out of the last 4 seasons. There is much stronger argument that Beau's 21-22 season was an anomaly because he performed at high level the previous 3 seasons. Anderson has been bad for 3 straight seasons.

I'm not doubting that if the Habs trade him he will get a good return. Cleary he has a good reputation even though he is a bad hockey player. There are plenty of GM's who are not good at their jobs that are interested in Anderson. If he is traded to the Islanders, which is possible but highly unlikely , hopefully he fails miserably.
28 juin 2022 à 14 h 2
#869
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Talking with a friend about Bob McKenzie's final top 5...
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28 juin 2022 à 14 h 3
#870
Démarrer sujet
Ban Price trades
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Why is it that only Habs fans think Anderson is a valuable piece that other teams should acquire at an exorbitant price?

Look, I'm all for the arguments re: analytics and his intangibles but these kinds of discussions should at least have some sense of parity to them. There's been zero dialogue from fans of other franchises beyond "we don't want to pay that much for Anderson". Quote the stupidity of NHL managements until the cows come home to roost but I've seen nothing suggesting that any fan base outside of the bleu blanc et rouge is actively pining for Josh's services.
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28 juin 2022 à 14 h 5
#871
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Apparently Jets management is in full blown panic mode rn

As with Stasney's recent comments, PLD's desire to leave in 2 years, Scheifele indirectly saying he wants out, and Wheeler also wanting out WPG is losing bodies fast

But hey if it gets the Leafs one step closer to getting Hellebuyck **** yeah BLOW IT TO SMITHERINES
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28 juin 2022 à 14 h 5
#872
Go leafs go
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Quoting: aadoyle
Interesting predicted all but #5. Would have thought it would have been Jiricek at that spot

But yeah got a feeling Slafkovsky is going first

Nah, it’s definitely Wright. Habs would be stupid to pass on him.
28 juin 2022 à 14 h 7
#873
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Modifié 28 juin 2022 à 14 h 14
Quoting: Saskleaf
Nah, it’s definitely Wright. Habs would be stupid to pass on him.


mmm Wrights good but if you look at Slavkovsky's resume its better especially this year

Wright has only played against Kids his age. Slav has played in multiple adult leagues thats a big advantage today and for Hughes that could bring MTL one step closer to being successful again

Got a feeling if Slav played in the OHL he would have gotten 100+ points in 50 games

So while its anyone's guess I wouldnt put it passed Hughes to draft him over Wright

As just imagine Slav-Suzuki-Caufield
28 juin 2022 à 14 h 12
#874
Ovchinnikov 137
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Quoting: aadoyle
Apparently Jets management is in full blown panic mode rn

As with Stasney's recent comments, PLD's desire to leave in 2 years, Scheifele indirectly saying he wants out, and Wheeler also wanting out WPG is losing bodies fast

But hey if it gets the Leafs one step closer to getting Hellebuyck **** yeah BLOW IT TO SMITHERINES


I don’t hate really any franchises except for the Jets. Watching this happen brings a 😊



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28 juin 2022 à 14 h 18
#875
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Quoting: aadoyle
mmm Wrights good but if you look at Slavkovsky's resume its better especially this year

Wright has only played against Kids his age. Slav has played in multiple adult leagues thats a big advantage today and for Hughes that could bring MTL one step closer to being successful again

Got a feeling if Slav played in the OHL he would have gotten 100+ points in 50 games

So while its anyone's guess I wouldnt put it passed Hughes to draft him over Wright

As just imagine Slav-Suzuki-Caufield


There is a lot of risk with Slafkovsky. He has a high ceiling but I’m not sure if he reaches it. It’s more likely he’s the next Puljujarvi than Miko Rantanen. Wright has the higher IQ, better goal scorer and passer. I don’t think it’s that close, Wright should be the clear #1
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