Forums/Trade Machine Proposals

Boston Saves Cap - Ottawa Gets A Veteran Presence Without Spending Salary

Créé par: budgeteam
Publié: 3 juin à 1 h 16
Plafond salarial: 82 500 000 $
Journées à la saison: 185/186 (99%)
Détermination du registraire central: Cette transaction a été refusée, car une des équipes n'a pas atteint le plancher salarial

Logo de Bruins de BostonBruins de Boston

DépartStatutSalaire retenuCap hit effectifFormationSPCListe de réserveChoix 1e rd2e et 3e rd4e à 7e rdPJGAPMBA%EFF
Foligno, NickBruins de BostonLNH20%3 023 656 $011---0000--
ArrivéeStatutSalaire retenuCap hit effectifFormationSPCListe de réserveChoix 1e rd2e et 3e rd4e à 7e rdPJGAPMBA%EFF
Del Zotto, MichaelSénateurs d'OttawaLNH-1 989 247 $011---0000--
VariationEspace sous le plafond salarialFormationSPCListe de réserveChoix 1e rd2e et 3e rd4e à 7e rdPJGAPMBA%EFF
Initial2 383 333 $2232492411
Variation1 034 409 $000000
Final3 417 742 $ (↑)2232492411000

Logo de Sénateurs d'OttawaSénateurs d'Ottawa

DépartStatutSalaire retenuCap hit effectifFormationSPCListe de réserveChoix 1e rd2e et 3e rd4e à 7e rdPJGAPMBA%EFF
Del Zotto, MichaelSénateurs d'OttawaLNH-1 989 247 $011---0000--
ArrivéeStatutSalaire retenuCap hit effectifFormationSPCListe de réserveChoix 1e rd2e et 3e rd4e à 7e rdPJGAPMBA%EFF
Foligno, NickBruins de BostonLNH20%3 023 656 $011---0000--
VariationEspace sous le plafond salarialFormationSPCListe de réserveChoix 1e rd2e et 3e rd4e à 7e rdPJGAPMBA%EFF
Initial24 206 786 $1434463816
Variation-1 034 409 $000000
Final23 172 377 $ (↓)1434463816000
3 juin à 1 h 18
#1
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This trade sheds cap space for Boston, and is better cap wise than buying out Foligno. Ottawa is a budget team, so they do not care about cap implications because they are unlikely to exceed the cap ceiling. This trade is real money salary neutral for Ottawa. They do not want to keep Del Zotto. They value adding a veteran presence to their 4th line. This comes at no extra cost to them since Foligno's remaining salary would be subsidized by dumping Del Zotto on Boston. Seems like a win/win to me.

-This trade saves Boston over 1M in cap (2M if Del Zotto is buried in the AHL).
-This trade is salary neutral for Ottawa. Ottawa is a budget team, therefore they care about real money salary, not cap space.
-Michael Del Zotto makes 2.25M in real money against a 2M cap hit.
-Foligno makes 2.8M against a 3.8M cap hit AFTER Boston pays his 1M signing bonus.
-Boston retains 20 percent of Foligno's cap hit. This is 760k in cap and 560k in base salary.
-Boston clears just over a million in cap space while moving on from a veteran who has played his way out of their lineup. If they bury Del Zotto, they can bring this total up to approx. 2 million, which is better than the buyout that puts roughly 2 million on the books in year 1 and 933k in year 2.
-The trade is cap neutral for the Senators. They get rid of a problem in Del Zotto. They add a veteran forward who can play on their 4th line. They do not have as much depth as Boston so Foligno is more likely to find a home in their lineup.
koofyslappa a aimé ceci.
3 juin à 8 h 19
#2
FanOfAllTeams
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Is Ottawa on his 16-team no trade? If so where did you find the information? I’ve been looking for players actual no trade lists of teams in their contract and found nothing.
3 juin à 18 h 37
#3
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Would salary have to be retained in this deal?
3 juin à 18 h 38
#4
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Quoting: FanOfAllTeams
Is Ottawa on his 16-team no trade? If so where did you find the information? I’ve been looking for players actual no trade lists of teams in their contract and found nothing.


They do not release it to the public I believe.
3 juin à 19 h 35
#5
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Quoting: FanOfAllTeams
Is Ottawa on his 16-team no trade? If so where did you find the information? I’ve been looking for players actual no trade lists of teams in their contract and found nothing.


I understand he has a partial NTC. I do not know what his list is. If Ottawa is on his list, or he won't waive to go to Ottawa, the trade would be moot.

He'd play a bigger role in Ottawa, so from that perspective, it would make sense for him to waive. He doesn't have a NMC, so if he continues to lose a step, there is nothing stopping Boston from assigning him to the AHL. He also has ties to Ottawa. They originally drafted him, and he played in Ottawa for a few years.
3 juin à 19 h 40
#6
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Quoting: messynews
Would salary have to be retained in this deal?


Boston retains 20 percent of Foligno's salary. This trade also assumes that Foligno's signing bonus is paid sometime in the off season, so that Boston can trade him after paying his signing bonus. Signing bonuses do not stay with the team that pays them cap wise. So it's a loophole for big money teams to retain some salary and dump a player with an inflated cap hit.

Boston pays 1M in signing bonuses. They also retain 760k in cap. These two things bring Foligno's salary down to approx 2.25M, which is the same as Del Zotto's salary. This would be important for Ottawa, because it would mean the trade is salary neutral. Ottawa is a budget team, not a cap team, so they care about real money salary not cap hits.

Boston would still clear 1M in this deal, and could clear up to 2M if they choose to bury Del Zotto in the AHL. A Foligno buyout would clear less money overall.

Foligno is also a fairly respected veteran in the league, who has a rep for being a great person. It spares Boston from having to make the tough decision about whether or not to assign him to the minors. Del Zotto doesn't come with that baggage.
5 juin à 15 h 29
#7
Hii
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Quoting: budgeteam
This trade sheds cap space for Boston, and is better cap wise than buying out Foligno. Ottawa is a budget team, so they do not care about cap implications because they are unlikely to exceed the cap ceiling. This trade is real money salary neutral for Ottawa. They do not want to keep Del Zotto. They value adding a veteran presence to their 4th line. This comes at no extra cost to them since Foligno's remaining salary would be subsidized by dumping Del Zotto on Boston. Seems like a win/win to me.

-This trade saves Boston over 1M in cap (2M if Del Zotto is buried in the AHL).
-This trade is salary neutral for Ottawa. Ottawa is a budget team, therefore they care about real money salary, not cap space.
-Michael Del Zotto makes 2.25M in real money against a 2M cap hit.
-Foligno makes 2.8M against a 3.8M cap hit AFTER Boston pays his 1M signing bonus.
-Boston retains 20 percent of Foligno's cap hit. This is 760k in cap and 560k in base salary.
-Boston clears just over a million in cap space while moving on from a veteran who has played his way out of their lineup. If they bury Del Zotto, they can bring this total up to approx. 2 million, which is better than the buyout that puts roughly 2 million on the books in year 1 and 933k in year 2.
-The trade is cap neutral for the Senators. They get rid of a problem in Del Zotto. They add a veteran forward who can play on their 4th line. They do not have as much depth as Boston so Foligno is more likely to find a home in their lineup.


I like you're explanation and it would bring Foligno back to the team that drafted him. (Yes, Ottawa drafted him)

Yet they really don't have a need for bottom six forwards or middle six forwards and Del Zotto provides depth on a pretty thin left side.

For those reasons Ottawa declines.
5 juin à 18 h 41
#8
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Quoting: Hii
I like you're explanation and it would bring Foligno back to the team that drafted him. (Yes, Ottawa drafted him)

Yet they really don't have a need for bottom six forwards or middle six forwards and Del Zotto provides depth on a pretty thin left side.

For those reasons Ottawa declines.


Del Zotto spent a huge chunk of the year assigned to Belleville, despite the Senators defense being thin. They also were shopping him, but teams only wanted him with retained salary. It is pretty clear they want to move on from Del Zotto. More likely because he isn't a fit in their room, for one reason or another.

Foligno's role in Ottawa would be to be a 4th liner who is a fantastic veteran presence in an otherwise young room. He wouldn't be brought in to be a star, those days are behind him. The Senators depth isn't all that great up front that they couldn't use a competent veteran in the 12th/13th forward spot. The Senators have also always very much wanted their young guys to have to force their way into the lineup, rather than be granted a spot. So while there are quite a few players from the AHL knocking on the door, there's nothing wrong with having a few veterans for them to have to outplay.

Should they go out and pay a premium for a veteran 4th liner when Gaudette or Gambrell could be qualified? No. But if no one will take Del Zotto, and it's salary in/salary out, there is a huge benefit to bringing a veteran like Foligno in to be the 12th/13th forward.
6 juin à 9 h 53
#9
Hii
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Quoting: budgeteam
Del Zotto spent a huge chunk of the year assigned to Belleville, despite the Senators defense being thin. They also were shopping him, but teams only wanted him with retained salary. It is pretty clear they want to move on from Del Zotto. More likely because he isn't a fit in their room, for one reason or another.

Foligno's role in Ottawa would be to be a 4th liner who is a fantastic veteran presence in an otherwise young room. He wouldn't be brought in to be a star, those days are behind him. The Senators depth isn't all that great up front that they couldn't use a competent veteran in the 12th/13th forward spot. The Senators have also always very much wanted their young guys to have to force their way into the lineup, rather than be granted a spot. So while there are quite a few players from the AHL knocking on the door, there's nothing wrong with having a few veterans for them to have to outplay.

Should they go out and pay a premium for a veteran 4th liner when Gaudette or Gambrell could be qualified? No. But if no one will take Del Zotto, and it's salary in/salary out, there is a huge benefit to bringing a veteran like Foligno in to be the 12th/13th forward.


Yet what team, especially a buget team wants to spend 3.5 or 3m on a 12/13th forward when they have plenty of those for 750k or 1m$. It also screws our cap over when you have to sign Stutzle, Sanderson, and Pinto where the money could be easily distrubuted and better used.

You also said it yourself that Ottawa shouldn't do this while having Gaudette and Gambrell available. So why would they detract from a week LD side where one or two injurys puts him in action. They also are paying more money long-term on the Foligno contract then they are on the Del Zotto one as a budget team.

The idea looks okay on the surface but when you actually go in and break it down for both teams it doesn't really make sense.

Ottawa to take this and deal Del Zotto would need a sweetener coming back like a mid round pick.
6 juin à 17 h 9
#10
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Quoting: Hii
Yet what team, especially a buget team wants to spend 3.5 or 3m on a 12/13th forward when they have plenty of those for 750k or 1m$. It also screws our cap over when you have to sign Stutzle, Sanderson, and Pinto where the money could be easily distrubuted and better used.

You also said it yourself that Ottawa shouldn't do this while having Gaudette and Gambrell available. So why would they detract from a week LD side where one or two injurys puts him in action. They also are paying more money long-term on the Foligno contract then they are on the Del Zotto one as a budget team.

The idea looks okay on the surface but when you actually go in and break it down for both teams it doesn't really make sense.

Ottawa to take this and deal Del Zotto would need a sweetener coming back like a mid round pick.


You are misunderstanding what I am saying.

My point was, in the proposal I made, Ottawa IS NOT spending millions on a fourth liner. Boston takes Del Zotto, retains salary, and pays Foligno's signing bonus. This makes it money in/money out. Del Zotto is a sunk cost.

I said they shouldn't go out and pay a premium for a 4th liner in defense of this proposal, because with this proposal they aren't paying a premium. They are exchanging a sunk cost (Del Zotto) for a more useful piece (Foligno), and it is salary in/salary out, and does not cost Ottawa any assets.
7 juin à 11 h 18
#11
Hii
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Quoting: budgeteam
You are misunderstanding what I am saying.

My point was, in the proposal I made, Ottawa IS NOT spending millions on a fourth liner. Boston takes Del Zotto, retains salary, and pays Foligno's signing bonus. This makes it money in/money out. Del Zotto is a sunk cost.

I said they shouldn't go out and pay a premium for a 4th liner in defense of this proposal, because with this proposal they aren't paying a premium. They are exchanging a sunk cost (Del Zotto) for a more useful piece (Foligno), and it is salary in/salary out, and does not cost Ottawa any assets.


Yet, why would Ottawa subtract from an area of need. (Defense) To add to an area of strength were Ottawa has Kelly, Reinhart, Crookshanks, Kastelic, Gambrell, Gaudette, Watson, Lodin, Sokolov, and Greig all fighting for time. Especially paying one 3m to do the job that a 750K young rookie could to a lot better.

He is also getting paid more than Del Zotto 3.8m even without his bonus and has a M-NTC that means he will likely block Ottawa as a trade destination. So essentially they are exchanging one sunk cost that is in an area of need for another sunk cost that is in an area of surplus.
 
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