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Pinto

Créé par: Wildwinswhen
Équipe: 2022-23 Wild du Minnesota
Date de création initiale: 26 mai 2022
Publié: 26 mai 2022
Mode - plafond salarial: Basique
Description
I'm not sure how to value Pinto, but I'm interested in him. What does OTT think of him?
Signatures de joueurs autonomes
RFAANSCAP HIT
2850 000 $
32 500 000 $
UFAANSCAP HIT
13 700 000 $
1750 000 $
Transactions
MIN
  1. Pinto, Shane
  2. Choix de 1e ronde en 2022 (OTT)
Détails additionnels:
7 OA
OTT
  1. Fiala, Kevin [Droits de RFA]
Détails additionnels:
Assumes Fiala would take 8M x 4 at Ott.
Rachats de contrats
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2022
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2024
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TAILLE DE LA FORMATIONPLAFOND SALARIALCAP HITEXCÉDENTS Info-bulleBONISESPACE SOUS LE PLAFOND SALARIAL
2182 500 000 $80 991 088 $0 $600 000 $1 508 912 $
Ailier gaucheCentreAilier droit
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9 000 000 $9 000 000 $
AG
UFA - 4
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1 700 000 $1 700 000 $
C, AD
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6 000 000 $6 000 000 $
AD, AG
M-NTC, NMC
UFA - 2
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5 250 000 $5 250 000 $
C
UFA - 7
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3 100 000 $3 100 000 $
AD, AG
UFA - 2
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3 000 000 $3 000 000 $
AG, AD
UFA - 3
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850 000 $850 000 $
AG, C
RFA - 2
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880 833 $880 833 $ (Bonis de performance600 000 $$600K)
AD, AG
UFA - 1
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1 200 000 $1 200 000 $
C, AG
UFA - 1
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750 000 $750 000 $
AD, AG
UFA - 1
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2 000 000 $2 000 000 $
C
UFA - 1
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750 000 $750 000 $
AG, AD
UFA - 4
Défenseur gaucherDéfenseur droitierGardien de but
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2 500 000 $2 500 000 $
DG
UFA - 3
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7 575 000 $7 575 000 $
DD
NMC
UFA - 5
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3 700 000 $3 700 000 $
G
UFA - 2
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6 000 000 $6 000 000 $
DG
NMC
UFA - 6
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6 000 000 $6 000 000 $
DD
M-NTC
UFA - 1
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3 666 667 $3 666 667 $
G
UFA - 1
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1 200 000 $1 200 000 $
DG
UFA - 3
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2 000 000 $2 000 000 $
DG/DD
NMC
UFA - 2
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1 125 000 $1 125 000 $
DG/DD
M-NTC
UFA - 1

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26 mai 2022 à 0 h 26
#1
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Pretty big overpay. Refer to Reinhart trade, should be a bit better than that
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26 mai 2022 à 0 h 27
#2
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Pinto may not have a huge trade value but Sens fans value him over everyone except the core players. We think he has Bergeron potential, so not trading him.

Roby Jarventie and the 7th overall is a much better offer that I'd do.
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26 mai 2022 à 0 h 53
#3
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Shane Pinto and the 7th overall pick, Is grossly over-valuing Kevin Fiala.
26 mai 2022 à 0 h 57
#4
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Quoting: sens65
Pinto may not have a huge trade value but Sens fans value him over everyone except the core players. We think he has Bergeron potential, so not trading him.

Roby Jarventie and the 7th overall is a much better offer that I'd do.


Jarventie is a nice player, but we have ALOT of left handed LWs. He won't be the guy if we're taking a prospect.

If the fans think Pinto is Bergeron, there's no way we're getting him. Which is too bad. We really need a RH center or defenseman.

What about Kastelic or Bernard-Docker?
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26 mai 2022 à 0 h 58
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Quoting: TampaBayLightning22
Shane Pinto and the 7th overall pick, Is grossly over-valuing Kevin Fiala.


Quoting: Ledge_And_Dairy
Pretty big overpay. Refer to Reinhart trade, should be a bit better than that


As I said in the intro, I don't know what Pinto is worth to the Sens. How far off do you see it? Do I need to add a 3rd? Dumba? What would make it even?

Comparing to Reinhart... He got a BUF 1st (before knowing the order, probably projected 10-20) and a goalie prospect who was the Juniors MVP the year before. So.... More than that... That seems like alot, so I think I'm already in the slightly more than that range. No? What do I need to add to make the original trade even?
26 mai 2022 à 1 h 6
#6
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Quoting: Wildwinswhen
Jarventie is a nice player, but we have ALOT of left handed LWs. He won't be the guy if we're taking a prospect.

If the fans think Pinto is Bergeron, there's no way we're getting him. Which is too bad. We really need a RH center or defenseman.

What about Kastelic or Bernard-Docker?


Kastelic projects as a very good fourth liner, so if you want him he's yours. Sens fans will be very hesitant to trade JBD and the 7th for Fiala. If we had a contract worked out with him prior to the trade then possibly. The Sens are very weak with RH winger prospects. All we have is Tyler Boucher.
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26 mai 2022 à 1 h 15
#7
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Quoting: sens65
Kastelic projects as a very good fourth liner, so if you want him he's yours. Sens fans will be very hesitant to trade JBD and the 7th for Fiala. If we had a contract worked out with him prior to the trade then possibly. The Sens are very weak with RH winger prospects. All we have is Tyler Boucher.


Sounds like Kastelic is a tweener. Can score 14 goals in the AHL, but not good enough to be an NHLer. The Wild have had a few of those guys in their system.

I think the prospect will be either GMBG working some magic to get Pinto or he'll target JBD. We need a plan for the future at RD.
26 mai 2022 à 1 h 26
#8
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Quoting: sens65
Kastelic projects as a very good fourth liner, so if you want him he's yours. Sens fans will be very hesitant to trade JBD and the 7th for Fiala. If we had a contract worked out with him prior to the trade then possibly. The Sens are very weak with RH winger prospects. All we have is Tyler Boucher.


By the way, we expect Fiala to want in the 7.5 to 8.5M range. He turned down 6.5M x 3 years last year. So I'm sure he thinks his first UFA year should be more than 6.5 now after he had such a good year. I would expect him to want a 3-4 year deal to get a big contract when he's 29.

He is the type who likes the big lights and attention, so there may be an Ottawa surcharge to get him there. That's why I proposed 8M x 4 years.
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26 mai 2022 à 1 h 45
#9
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Quoting: Wildwinswhen
By the way, we expect Fiala to want in the 7.5 to 8.5M range. He turned down 6.5M x 3 years last year. So I'm sure he thinks his first UFA year should be more than 6.5 now after he had such a good year. I would expect him to want a 3-4 year deal to get a big contract when he's 29.

He is the type who likes the big lights and attention, so there may be an Ottawa surcharge to get him there. That's why I proposed 8M x 4 years.


Yeah, that's why I'm not sure Ottawa should even get him.
26 mai 2022 à 4 h 33
#10
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Quoting: Ledge_And_Dairy
Pretty big overpay. Refer to Reinhart trade, should be a bit better than that


Quoting: sens65
Pinto may not have a huge trade value but Sens fans value him over everyone except the core players. We think he has Bergeron potential, so not trading him.

Roby Jarventie and the 7th overall is a much better offer that I'd do.


Quoting: Wildwinswhen
Jarventie is a nice player, but we have ALOT of left handed LWs. He won't be the guy if we're taking a prospect.

If the fans think Pinto is Bergeron, there's no way we're getting him. Which is too bad. We really need a RH center or defenseman.

What about Kastelic or Bernard-Docker?


Quoting: Wildwinswhen
Sounds like Kastelic is a tweener. Can score 14 goals in the AHL, but not good enough to be an NHLer. The Wild have had a few of those guys in their system.

I think the prospect will be either GMBG working some magic to get Pinto or he'll target JBD. We need a plan for the future at RD.


I’m not sure why people keep referencing the Reinhart trade since that first was top 10 protected and Ottawa’s is a known #7 OA, unless it’s just the pick + prospect, but that is pretty standard. Since the Ottawa pick is so good, the prospect will not be an A prospect, which is what Pinto is.

Kastelic is a depth guy, he was protected in Ottawa and still didn’t do that great. He’s very good on draws though, iirc, and that’ll keep him in the discussion for the 23 man roster. Right now, I expect Gambrell to be the 4C, or Kastelic maybe. Both are place holders for Ostapchuk for when he arrives.

The 7OA might be enough on it’s own to get Fiala, but it depends on the bidding war. I’m not overpaying for Fiala though. He’s good, but I think he is going to cash in and then have trouble living up to his contract. Every team has an overpaid player, might as well be a 30g guy. BTW, I believe it’s his assists that will decline, putting him back to a 65-70 pt player.
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26 mai 2022 à 8 h 52
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Quoting: Wildwinswhen
Sounds like Kastelic is a tweener. Can score 14 goals in the AHL, but not good enough to be an NHLer. The Wild have had a few of those guys in their system.

I think the prospect will be either GMBG working some magic to get Pinto or he'll target JBD. We need a plan for the future at RD.


The Wild have quite a few defensive prospects coming up. We have a plan for the future already at RD. We’ve loaded up on d prospects the last few drafts. That’s why Dumba doesn’t have a future here beyond next season (Per Russo on KFAN yesterday).
26 mai 2022 à 8 h 55
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Quoting: sensibleguy
I’m not sure why people keep referencing the Reinhart trade since that first was top 10 protected and Ottawa’s is a known #7 OA, unless it’s just the pick + prospect, but that is pretty standard. Since the Ottawa pick is so good, the prospect will not be an A prospect, which is what Pinto is.

Kastelic is a depth guy, he was protected in Ottawa and still didn’t do that great. He’s very good on draws though, iirc, and that’ll keep him in the discussion for the 23 man roster. Right now, I expect Gambrell to be the 4C, or Kastelic maybe. Both are place holders for Ostapchuk for when he arrives.

The 7OA might be enough on it’s own to get Fiala, but it depends on the bidding war. I’m not overpaying for Fiala though. He’s good, but I think he is going to cash in and then have trouble living up to his contract. Every team has an overpaid player, might as well be a 30g guy. BTW, I believe it’s his assists that will decline, putting him back to a 65-70 pt player.


I’m curious why you think his assists will decline? He was playing with a 4th line C and a rookie last year. I actually think he’s a 90+ point guy when he’s with other offensive minded guys.

Also Fiala won’t be looking for a short term deal, I’d imagine 6 is the fewest years he’ll do. Russo speculated he’s looking for 7-7.25 mil per. I’d imagine that’s over 6/7 years. He just put up 85 points, now is his time to cash in. Wild only offered 6 mil / 3 last year.
26 mai 2022 à 9 h 2
#13
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I will say Russo said Billy G would probably take 7OA alone if that’s the highest offer. And if 2OA became available he’d jump at that pick (alone). I think it all depends on what kind of bidding war ensues. If it’s only NJD and Sens then probably a lesser package. If LAK and some others get involved, NJD might have to offer 2OA if they want him. Basically more teams equals better return. So here’s hoping for a bidding war haha!

I’ve watched Fiala for years, the dudes exciting and fun to watch. I still hope they move other pieces to keep him but that seems like almost no chance. He’s got even more potential than what we’ve seen. He does moves only a handful of other players can do, and that’s with lesser more defensive first players on his line.
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26 mai 2022 à 9 h 5
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Modifié 26 mai 2022 à 9 h 23
Again, NO

Particularly if all they'd get is a 8 M$ x 4 contract

Quoting: sens65
Pinto may not have a huge trade value.


Where do you get that from? Listen, there's people covering the NCAA. The guy came a bit of nowhere since he only started taking hockey seriously at 15 years old. He's a late bloomer (a bit ala Batherson with his late growth spurt) and we were all shocked when Ottawa didn't take Kaliyev or Brink as the first pick of the 2019 2nd round. But then, this happened :

2019-2020
NCAA (NCHC) All-Rookie Team
NCAA (NCHC) Reg. Season Champion (Penrose Cup)
NCAA (NCHC) Rookie of the Year
U20 WJC Top 3 Player on Team

2020-2021
NCAA (All-USCHO) First Team
NCAA (NCHC) Best Defensive Forward
NCAA (NCHC) Champion
NCAA (NCHC) First All-Star Team
NCAA (NCHC) Forward of the Year
NCAA (NCHC) Player of the Year
NCAA (NCHC) Reg. Season Champion (Penrose Cup)
NCAA (West) First All-American Team
NCAA Top Collegiate Player (Hobey Baker Award) Finalist

He didn't win the Hobey Baker only because Cole Caufield was a scoring machine in College. Then he was very impressive in his first NHL stretch, 7 pts in 12 games in less than 11 ES minutes per game. But it wasn't really his offensive production but more his through the roof hockey IQ and defensive awareness that people marveled about.

Sens are not stupid (at least I hope), they know they have a gem in him. Other teams are surely aware of this too
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26 mai 2022 à 9 h 45
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Quoting: IcemanJoe
The Wild have quite a few defensive prospects coming up. We have a plan for the future already at RD. We’ve loaded up on d prospects the last few drafts. That’s why Dumba doesn’t have a future here beyond next season (Per Russo on KFAN yesterday).


Interesting. I think the team isn't convinced Addison can be that next RD based on other things Russo has said. I'm not sure who else they would put at RD. O'Rourke is a lefty.
26 mai 2022 à 9 h 59
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Modifié 26 mai 2022 à 10 h 10
Quoting: Wildwinswhen
Interesting. I think the team isn't convinced Addison can be that next RD based on other things Russo has said. I'm not sure who else they would put at RD. O'Rourke is a lefty.


Russo has speculated they don’t like Addison playing when Dumba and Spurgeon are both playing. That leaves our D core on the small side. If Dumba is gone, Addison slides into that spot (if he earns it of course).

Russo listed off about 4-5 names yesterday, O’Rourke being one of those names. Along with J Pert, Addison, C Lambos, D Hunt, and maybe M Warren. If they sign Middleton to a 3 year extension, that leaves Dumba’s spot as the only top 4 spot available for about
6 D prospects coming up. Middleton maybe be able to play off hand. Or they address that spot later, but we’ve got lots of good D prospects coming and only 1 top 4 spot for them to play, on the right side. That assumes everyone stays healthy too.
26 mai 2022 à 10 h 19
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Quoting: IcemanJoe
Russo has speculated they don’t like Addison playing when Dumba and Spurgeon are both playing. That leaves our D core on the small side. If Dumba is gone, Addison slides into that spot (if he earns it of course).

Russo listed off about 4-5 names yesterday, O’Rourke being one of those names. Along with J Pert, Addison, C Lambos, D Hunt, and maybe M Warren. If they sign Middleton to a 3 year extension, that leaves Dumba’s spot as the only top 4 spot available for about
6 D prospects coming up. Middleton maybe be able to play off hand. Or they address that spot later, but we’ve got lots of good D prospects coming and only 1 top 4 spot for them to play, on the right side. That assumes everyone stays healthy too.


I don't like guys playing on their off-hand at D and I don't know if Middleton has ever done it before. I like him with Spurgeon alot better.

Also, I think all of those guys are lefties with the exception of Addison. So if he's not the guy at RD, you're forcing a rookie to play off side when they start in the NHL. That's a big ask.
26 mai 2022 à 10 h 29
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Quoting: Wildwinswhen
I don't like guys playing on their off-hand at D and I don't know if Middleton has ever done it before. I like him with Spurgeon alot better.

Also, I think all of those guys are lefties with the exception of Addison. So if he's not the guy at RD, you're forcing a rookie to play off side when they start in the NHL. That's a big ask.


That’s the state of our d prospects. They’re not going to trade a
Other assists to acquire more d prospects when we’ve got 6 coming already and no spots for them. If anything, they’d trade from those LHD prospect pool for a RHD.

I like Middleton and Spurgeon a lot too. I believe Brodin has played on the right side in the past. Suter used to do it as well here and there. It doesn’t feel like RHD is an imperative need right now. I suspect that could be addressed at a later time or with this upcoming draft. That would be my guess, they target more draft picks as opposed to prospects. There isn’t really an immediate need for a top 4 RHD. Spurge and Dumba there next year. With Addison waiting in the wings to replace Dumba.
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26 mai 2022 à 11 h 31
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Quoting: IcemanJoe
I’m curious why you think his assists will decline? He was playing with a 4th line C and a rookie last year. I actually think he’s a 90+ point guy when he’s with other offensive minded guys.

Also Fiala won’t be looking for a short term deal, I’d imagine 6 is the fewest years he’ll do. Russo speculated he’s looking for 7-7.25 mil per. I’d imagine that’s over 6/7 years. He just put up 85 points, now is his time to cash in. Wild only offered 6 mil / 3 last year.


Fiala’s goals are pretty steady
23G in 64 games, 0.36 goals per game
20G in 50 games, 0.40 goals per game
33G in 82 games, 0.40 goals per game

I’m not going to break down PP versus 5v5 goals

Boldy, that rookie, made his NHL debut on Jan 6th

Fiala’s splits before and after Jan 6th
31 games, 7G, 14A, 21 pts, 0.68 PPG
51 games, 26G, 38A, 64 pts, 1.25 PPG

Gaudreau’s splits before and after Jan 6th
25 games, 2G, 8A, 10 pts, 0.40 PPG
51 games, 12G, 22A, 34 pts, 0.67 PPG

Boldy is going to be good, and he’s the reason for Fiala’s uptick in assists.

MIN had a good team before Boldy arrived, so it’s difficult to say Fiala will have the same success as he did with Boldy, and even with Boldy, Fiala’s numbers could return to their previous levels, hard to say. I see this as Fiala’s career year, and on a contract year that’s good for him. New team, new line mates, new system, we’ll see how he fairs, but I’m not worried about his goals, they will come.
26 mai 2022 à 11 h 34
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Quoting: sensibleguy
Fiala’s goals are pretty steady
23G in 64 games, 0.36 goals per game
20G in 50 games, 0.40 goals per game
33G in 82 games, 0.40 goals per game

I’m not going to break down PP versus 5v5 goals

Boldy, that rookie, made his NHL debut on Jan 6th

Fiala’s splits before and after Jan 6th
31 games, 7G, 14A, 21 pts, 0.68 PPG
51 games, 26G, 38A, 64 pts, 1.25 PPG

Gaudreau’s splits before and after Jan 6th
25 games, 2G, 8A, 10 pts, 0.40 PPG
51 games, 12G, 22A, 34 pts, 0.67 PPG

Boldy is going to be good, and he’s the reason for Fiala’s uptick in assists.

MIN had a good team before Boldy arrived, so it’s difficult to say Fiala will have the same success as he did with Boldy, and even with Boldy, Fiala’s numbers could return to their previous levels, hard to say. I see this as Fiala’s career year, and on a contract year that’s good for him. New team, new line mates, new system, we’ll see how he fairs, but I’m not worried about his goals, they will come.


And I’ll say Boldy went through rookie ups and downs. and Freddie isn’t offensively skilled. Put him with offensive minded players and he’ll be a constant 90+ point guy.
26 mai 2022 à 11 h 48
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Quoting: IcemanJoe
And I’ll say Boldy went through rookie ups and downs. and Freddie isn’t offensively skilled. Put him with offensive minded players and he’ll be a constant 90+ point guy.


Stop, jeez, you keep throwing out rhetoric as your arguments, that’s how teenagers argue. Try putting together an adult argument
26 mai 2022 à 11 h 59
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Quoting: sensibleguy
Stop, jeez, you keep throwing out rhetoric as your arguments, that’s how teenagers argue. Try putting together an adult argument


What?! Haha. He had 85 points last year with a defensive first C and a rookie. Those are facts. Hypotheticals are what you and I are arguing about. There’s no guarantee he goes backwards in his career. That’s your rhetoric. If you can say he’s going to take a step back, I have just as much right to say he’s going to take a step forward. And I provided my reason. Get off your high horse.
26 mai 2022 à 13 h 3
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Quoting: IcemanJoe
It doesn’t feel like RHD is an imperative need right now. I suspect that could be addressed at a later time or with this upcoming draft. That would be my guess, they target more draft picks as opposed to prospects. There isn’t really an immediate need for a top 4 RHD. Spurge and Dumba there next year. With Addison waiting in the wings to replace Dumba.


Yeah, I could see them going more for picks than prospects. And definitely, Pinto would be the main prospect target from OTT. But if they can't get him, 7th OA and JBD isn't a bad return.
26 mai 2022 à 13 h 13
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Quoting: Wildwinswhen
Yeah, I could see them going more for picks than prospects. And definitely, Pinto would be the main prospect target from OTT. But if they can't get him, 7th OA and JBD isn't a bad return.


Yeah, you’re right there value wise it is for sure. And they could always then trade a LHD for a forward prospect.
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26 mai 2022 à 13 h 49
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Quoting: Wildwinswhen
Jarventie is a nice player, but we have ALOT of left handed LWs. He won't be the guy if we're taking a prospect.

If the fans think Pinto is Bergeron, there's no way we're getting him. Which is too bad. We really need a RH center or defenseman.

What about Kastelic or Bernard-Docker?


1- Sanderson
---------------
2- Pinto
3- Greig
---------------
4- JBD
5- Sogaard
6- Jarventie
7- Thomson
---------------
8- Sokolov
9- Kleven
---------------
10- Boucher

Kastelic is more like 15th-18th best prospect, he was a potential bottom-6 forward, not more

Pinto could be a perennial Selke candidate and JBD "should" be a Top-4 defensive D-man. These 3 guys are in very different tiers.

Quoting: Wildwinswhen
Sounds like Kastelic is a tweener. Can score 14 goals in the AHL, but not good enough to be an NHLer.


Kastelic has shown he can play in the NHL and actually be impactful. However, I don't see him be more than a 4th line Center. But you still need these guys. I think a comparable for him is Nate Thompson. Great on faceoffs, good defensively, can even provide a bit of offense

Look at some analysis I did on him a while ago :


Small sample size (16 GP with 9:11 average) but look at this, among skaters who played at least 15 games :

Hits/60 : Kastelic is 5th behind Michael Pezzetta, Ryan Reaves, Liam O'Brien and Reese Johnson

BkS/60 (forwards only) : Kastelic is 8th behind Austin Watson, Nick Bonino, Carter Rowney, Brett Howden, Tyler Motte, Alexei Toropchenko and Parker Kelly

TkA/60 : Kastelic is 3rd behind Mark Stone and Logan Shaw
sens65 et Wildwinswhen a aimé ceci.
 
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