Forums/Armchair-GM

Pasta

Créé par: backpacker10
Date de création initiale: 24 mai 2022
Publié: 24 mai 2022
Équipe: 2022-23 Sénateurs d'Ottawa
Explications
For this ACGM we'll assume Bergeron retires and Pastrnak has indicated he won't resign with the Bruins, but agrees to a long-term deal with Ottawa. Highly unlikely, and I don't see this ever happening, but for fun, what might that look like?
And we can still fit everyone under the cap for 23-24 with some options to free up cash in 24-25 when Sanderson is due.
- Pasta @ $9.5 mil
- Tim S @ $9 mil
- Zub @ $5 mil
- Holden gone or $1 mil
- Watson gone
- Hamonic gone
- Brown gone
Signatures de joueurs autonomes
RFAANSCAP HIT
Brännström, Erik21 200 000 $
Formenton, Alex42 200 000 $
Joseph, Mathieu42 500 000 $
Norris, Joshua87 800 000 $
UFAANSCAP HIT
Manson, Josh45 000 000 $
Nichushkin, Valeri54 000 000 $
Transactions
1.
OTT
  1. Pastrnak, David
Détails additionnels:
On the condition that a new contract is in place for the Sens.
BOS
  1. White, Colin
  2. Brännström, Erik
  3. Pinto, Shane
  4. Järventie, Roby
  5. 2022 1e round pick (OTT)
  6. 2022 2e round pick (TBL)
Détails additionnels:
This trade kickstarts a rebuild / retool for Boston. Pinto has the potential to be a Krejci-style pick up for Boston. White is hometown boy who can play a role at 3C or on the RW.
2.
OTT
  1. 2022 6e round pick (ARI)
ARI
  1. Zaitsev, Nikita
  2. 2023 2e round pick (OTT)
Rachats de contrats
  • Bobby Ryan: 1 833 333 $
  • Dion Phaneuf: 354 167 $
Transactions impliquant une retenue de salaire
  • Matt Murray: 1 562 500 $ (25%)
ANNÉE DE REPÊCHAGERONDE 1RONDE 2RONDE 3RONDE 4RONDE 5RONDE 6RONDE 7
2022
Logo de OTT
Logo de OTT
Logo de BOS
Logo de OTT
Logo de OTT
Logo de BOS
Logo de WPG
Logo de OTT
Logo de ARI
Logo de NYI
2023
Logo de OTT
Logo de OTT
Logo de OTT
Logo de OTT
Logo de OTT
Logo de OTT
Logo de NSH
2024
Logo de OTT
Logo de OTT
Logo de OTT
Logo de OTT
Logo de TBL
Logo de OTT
Logo de OTT
Logo de OTT
TAILLE DE LA FORMATIONPLAFOND SALARIALCAP HITEXCÉDENTS Info-bulleBONISESPACE SOUS LE PLAFOND SALARIAL
2182 500 000 $76 833 214 $0 $3 850 000 $5 666 786 $
Ailier gaucheCentreAilier droit
Nichushkin, Valeri
4 000 000 $
AD, AG
NMC
UFA - 8
Logo de OTT
Stützle, Tim
925 000 $
C, AG
UFA - 1
Logo de BOS
Pastrnak, David
6 666 667 $
AD
NMC NTC
UFA - 1
Logo de OTT
Tkachuk, Brady
8 205 714 $
AG, C
UFA - 6
Logo de OTT
Norris, Joshua
7 800 000 $
C
UFA - 8
Logo de OTT
Batherson, Drake
4 975 000 $
AD
UFA - 5
Logo de OTT
Formenton, Alex
2 200 000 $
AG
RFA
Logo de OTT
Joseph, Mathieu
2 500 000 $
AG, AD, C
UFA - 4
Logo de OTT
Brown, Connor
3 600 000 $
AD, AG
UFA - 1
Logo de OTT
Greig, Ridly
863 333 $
AG
RFA - 3
Logo de OTT
Kastelic, Mark
821 667 $
C
RFA - 1
Logo de OTT
Watson, Austin
1 500 000 $
AD, AG
UFA - 1
Défenseur gaucherDéfenseur droitierGardien de but
Logo de OTT
Chabot, Thomas
8 000 000 $
DG
UFA - 6
Logo de OTT
Zub, Artem
2 500 000 $
DD
UFA - 1
Logo de OTT
Forsberg, Anton
2 750 000 $
G
UFA - 3
Logo de OTT
Sanderson, Jake
925 000 $
DG
RFA - 2
Manson, Josh
5 000 000 $
DD
NTC
UFA - 4
Logo de OTT
Murray, Matt
4 687 500 $
G
NTC
UFA - 2
Logo de OTT
Holden, Nick
1 300 000 $
DG
NTC
UFA - 1
Logo de OTT
Hamonic, Travis
3 000 000 $
DD
UFA - 1
Logo de OTT
Thomson, Lassi
863 333 $
DD
RFA - 2

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24 mai à 13 h 3
#1
LongtimeLeafsufferer
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That's an absurd contract for Manson. Just wait a year and sign a Pasta (or any UFA(s) instead of wasting all those young assets.
24 mai à 13 h 11
#2
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Quoting: palhal
That's an absurd contract for Manson. Just wait a year and sign a Pasta (or any UFA(s) instead of wasting all those young assets.


The guy plays top 4 minutes as a shutdown defenceman. He'll likely get paid that and more as a UFA this summer. Every team needs a guy like this. Not the sexiest of free agents, but the guy can play hockey.
24 mai à 13 h 23
#3
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Just a bunch of stuff for pastrnak besides the pick
24 mai à 13 h 27
#4
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Boston would demand that Sanderson is in the package if Pastrnak comes with a contract.
Something like the first, sanderson and b prospects.
24 mai à 13 h 29
#5
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Quoting: littlejerryseinfeld
Just a bunch of stuff for pastrnak besides the pick


This package would exceed what Vegas paid for Eichel with all due respect.
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24 mai à 13 h 33
#6
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Quoting: messynews
Boston would demand that Sanderson is in the package if Pastrnak comes with a contract.
Something like the first, sanderson and b prospects.


That would be a non-starter for Ottawa. Truthfully, I don't think Ottawa would entertain trading Pinto unless it was for a top 6 winger. Pinto has the potential to be a high end 2-way centreman, Brannstrom has Krug-like qualities, and the 7OA pick will be for a quality dman or winger this season.
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24 mai à 13 h 38
#7
KFTW
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Quoting: littlejerryseinfeld
Just a bunch of stuff for pastrnak besides the pick


Pinto isn’t stuff just fyi
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24 mai à 13 h 47
#8
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Quoting: backpacker10
This package would exceed what Vegas paid for Eichel with all due respect.


Does pastrnak need neck surgery?
24 mai à 13 h 51
#9
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Quoting: csick
Pinto isn’t stuff just fyi


My take on "a bunch of stuff" trade offer to Boston: Vitaly Abramov, Ben Roger, Johnny Tychonick, 1st, 2nd.
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24 mai à 13 h 51
#10
KFTW
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Quoting: backpacker10
My take on "a bunch of stuff" trade offer to Boston: Vitaly Abramov, Ben Roger, Johnny Tychonick, 1st, 2nd.


Yes that is stuff
24 mai à 13 h 52
#11
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Quoting: littlejerryseinfeld
Does pastrnak need neck surgery?


Nope. Hence the insanely good trade offer from Ottawa.
24 mai à 13 h 52
#12
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Quoting: backpacker10
Nope. Hence the insanely good trade offer from Ottawa.


Underwhelming frankly
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24 mai à 14 h 31
#13
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The Bruins would never trade Pastrnak within the division. However, if they did then this offer wouldn't cut it. White is not a valuable asset, especially to a cap-strapped team, Brannstrom hasn't panned out, and Pinto/Jarventie can't be the centerpiece prospect. Bruins need a top-six center, a top defense prospect, and two first-round picks. So something like Norris/Stutzle, Bernard-Docker/Thomson, Greig/Jarventie and 2022 and 2023 firsts would start the conversation.
24 mai à 14 h 32
#14
Banni
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Quoting: backpacker10
This package would exceed what Vegas paid for Eichel with all due respect.


1. No it wouldn’t.
2. Pastrnak is way better than eichel.

This package is a lot of fluff. Let’s not sugar coat Colin white with the, “hometown boy,” junk. He stinks. He’s negative value. Brannstrom is meh. Pinto is okay.

I absolutely think that Pastrnak should be available, but the return would have to have a piece that really could turn into the bruins next top center. I think 7 is just outside the comfort zone for that.

I still think pastrnak to jersey for the 2OA makes a ton of sense.
24 mai à 14 h 33
#15
Banni
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Quoting: bruinsdude77
The Bruins would never trade Pastrnak within the division. However, if they did then this offer wouldn't cut it. White is not a valuable asset, especially to a cap-strapped team, Brannstrom hasn't panned out, and Pinto/Jarventie can't be the centerpiece prospect. Bruins need a top-six center, a top defense prospect, and two first-round picks. So something like Norris/Stutzle, Bernard-Docker/Thomson, Greig/Jarventie and 2022 and 2023 firsts would start the conversation.

Settle down. Your offer is beyond bonkers.

Also where’s the need for a top D prospect? The bruins top three D are locked up for 5 years.
24 mai à 14 h 35
#16
Leafs Sufferer
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Quoting: CMcAvoy73
Settle down. Your offer is beyond bonkers.

Also where’s the need for a top D prospect? The bruins top three D are locked up for 5 years.


I spit out my coffee when I saw "would start the conversation".
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24 mai à 16 h 40
#17
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Modifié 24 mai à 16 h 48
That's a heavy price but Pastrnak is one of the wingers I'd be ready to pay such price.

I wouldn't pay this for Fiala or even DeBrincat

Quoting: csick
Pinto isn’t stuff just fyi


Imagine saying that Shane Pinto is stuff lol

Heck, even Jarventie and Brannstrom are also more than "stuff"

This package is :

- 7th OA pick
- Top-15 pick (Pinto)
- Late 1st round pick (Jarventie)
- Early 2nd round pick (Brannstrom)
- Late 2nd round pick (TBL)
- Solid 3rd line forward (but overpaid)

Quoting: messynews
Boston would demand that Sanderson is in the package if Pastrnak comes with a contract.
Something like the first, sanderson and b prospects.


7th OA + Sanderson + ???

Ottawa would never do that. Very few players in this league they would do that for. Maybe if Pastrnak would have a steal of a contract for the next 7 years

Quoting: bruinsdude77
So something like Norris/Stutzle, Bernard-Docker/Thomson, Greig/Jarventie and 2022 and 2023 firsts would start the conversation.


Damn, that is totally DELUSIONAL

Stutzle + Thomson + Greig + 7th OA pick + 1st round pick in Bedard/Michkov draft?

I wouldn't trade that for the whole Bruins organization lol

"would start the conversation" tears of joy
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24 mai à 17 h 4
#18
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Quoting: CMcAvoy73
1. No it wouldn’t.
2. Pastrnak is way better than eichel.

This package is a lot of fluff. Let’s not sugar coat Colin white with the, “hometown boy,” junk. He stinks. He’s negative value. Brannstrom is meh. Pinto is okay.

I absolutely think that Pastrnak should be available, but the return would have to have a piece that really could turn into the bruins next top center. I think 7 is just outside the comfort zone for that.

I still think pastrnak to jersey for the 2OA makes a ton of sense.


Your response reminds me a lot of the Sens’ fans responses when Karlsson was traded to SJ. I thought we traded for fluff as well. Turns out Norris is a 1C, Stutzle is on his way to stardom, Tierney played serviceable years, we should have kept Balcers as a bottom 6 forward. One of the best trades in Sens history and I was livid at the return when it was announced.

I don’t expect other teams’ fan bases to fully understand the value of these prospects. But these are the upper tier of Ottawa prospects in this deal. White admittedly isn’t amongst that group, but his name could be swapped for another prospect. Pinto and Brannstrom plus 7OA is a very nice start to compensation.

If Pasta indicates he wants to wait to negotiate a deal, I’m shipping him out asap, to whatever team will give me the best return, Ottawa or otherwise.
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24 mai à 17 h 6
#19
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Quoting: CMcAvoy73
Settle down. Your offer is beyond bonkers.

Also where’s the need for a top D prospect? The bruins top three D are locked up for 5 years.


Add Brannstrom and your top 4 are set. He plays on the right or left side. So put him on the right side second pairing.
24 mai à 17 h 15
#20
Banni
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Quoting: backpacker10
Your response reminds me a lot of the Sens’ fans responses when Karlsson was traded to SJ. I thought we traded for fluff as well. Turns out Norris is a 1C, Stutzle is on his way to stardom, Tierney played serviceable years, we should have kept Balcers as a bottom 6 forward. One of the best trades in Sens history and I was livid at the return when it was announced.

I don’t expect other teams’ fan bases to fully understand the value of these prospects. But these are the upper tier of Ottawa prospects in this deal. White admittedly isn’t amongst that group, but his name could be swapped for another prospect. Pinto and Brannstrom plus 7OA is a very nice start to compensation.

If Pasta indicates he wants to wait to negotiate a deal, I’m shipping him out asap, to whatever team will give me the best return, Ottawa or otherwise.


I think you’re kind of thinking about this the wrong way. There are good trades that don’t work out, and bad trades that do work out.

If McDavid was traded for a 5th, and that turned into a guy that’s better than McDavid, that trade worked out….but it doesn’t mean it was a good trade.

Perfect example: The bruins traded a 5th round pick for Adam McQuaid, a former 2nd round pick that was still in junior. McQuaid had a good career, played 11 years, and won a stanley cup. Getting a 5th for that is terrible. Well, that pick turned into Jamie Benn.

The sens got a very underwhelming return for Karlsson, but it worked out great.

Teams don’t make bad deals hoping to get lucky. This deal stinks.

Now if you want to get into the weeds here:
Cap dump Colin White, Brannstrom, Pinto, and Jarventie is SO much worse than what Ottawa got for Karlsson. Its just a pile of disappointing stuff. Its a really bad package outside the 7OA.
24 mai à 17 h 17
#21
Banni
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Quoting: backpacker10
Add Brannstrom and your top 4 are set. He plays on the right or left side. So put him on the right side second pairing.

Top four of what? The AHL? The entire top four is already full. Brannstrom would probably be stuck in providence if he was in the bruins organization. If he wasn’t, he would be the 8D.
25 mai à 11 h 42
#22
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Quoting: backpacker10
Your response reminds me a lot of the Sens’ fans responses when Karlsson was traded to SJ. I thought we traded for fluff as well. Turns out Norris is a 1C, Stutzle is on his way to stardom, Tierney played serviceable years, we should have kept Balcers as a bottom 6 forward. One of the best trades in Sens history and I was livid at the return when it was announced.

I don’t expect other teams’ fan bases to fully understand the value of these prospects. But these are the upper tier of Ottawa prospects in this deal. White admittedly isn’t amongst that group, but his name could be swapped for another prospect. Pinto and Brannstrom plus 7OA is a very nice start to compensation.

If Pasta indicates he wants to wait to negotiate a deal, I’m shipping him out asap, to whatever team will give me the best return, Ottawa or otherwise.


Very good point. I was one of the very few defending the return (not on this forum as I wasn't active here) even though I am not Dorion's biggest fan lol (I routinely call him the worst GM in the NHL)

I was very high on Norris, found Balcers very interesting and realy liked the condition of the Sharks first and once we took Tkachuk and Pavelski left the Sharks, I thought this pick could end up 10th OA (finally ended up on a lot better)

This is the NET return on Erik Karlsson

Tim Stutzle (Sharks 3rd OA pick in 2020)
Josh Norris
Rudolfs Balcers
Mads Sogaard (traded up : Panthers 2019 2nd + Penguins 2019 3rd from Karlsson/Brassard trades)
Zack Ostapchuk (Sharks 2021 2nd round pick)
Leevi Meriläinen (Jets 2020 3rd round pick from DeMelo)
Chris Tierney (not a prospect but was 24 y/o when acquired and could have returned "futures")


The thing is it could have been even better :

- I was very vocal about trading Chris Tierney at his peak value (summer 2019) but it never happened, Dorion re-signed him and then Chris totally lost his value. Could have added a prospect and a 2nd.

- Never should have waived Balcers : it was such a braindead move, just to NOT WAIVE Cedric Paquette, Artem Anisimov or Alex Galchenyuk lol

- Keep DeMelo and sign him him to the contract Winnipeg signed him for, over a 3rd round pick. RD has been a major weakness for this team for a while, DeMelo would have helped, particularly Chabot who didn't have a good partner since DeMelo left, outside of a few games with Zub (but then the rest of the defense was too weak)

- I wanted Scott Morrow or Aatu Raty with the Sharks 2021 2nd round pick, but this might end up ok as Ostapchuk has started breaking out (23 pts in 12 playoffs games)


I took a LOT OF HEAT for defending that return but ended up being right as it is often the case (sorry, hard to not brag here). But no matter how knowledgeable you are on a subject, people won't listen to you on the internet (but might do in real life if they know you). The Karlsson return was not underwhelming for people who know about prospects and young players from other teams. What helped to make it much better was the Sharks decision to let go Joe Pavelski. I knew they were only going down from there.

You are right these packages are very similar. Don't let others tell you they're not. You are BANG ON.

2022 1st round pick (7th OA) vs Sharks 1st round pick
Shane Pinto vs Josh Norris
Roby Järventie vs Rudolfs Balcers
Colin White vs Chris Tierney
Erik Brännström vs DeMelo + 2nd round pick
2022 2nd round pick (TBL) vs 2nd round pick
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