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The only way to contend next year

Créé par: Icedragon4405
Équipe: 2022-23 Devils du New Jersey
Date de création initiale: 23 mai 2022
Publié: 23 mai 2022
Mode - plafond salarial: Basique
Description
Being real for a second, no matter what they do this offseason they won’t contend next year because ruff is still gonna be the coach. Also Fitz will not make the right moves, he talks like he wants to take the next step but he won’t make the moves to do it. Making moves to get to the next step may result in losing high value prospects but you have to know what trades are the right ones, trading a top prospect for a star in the devils case is what they need to move forward. They already have too many NHL potential prospects, they won’t even have enough roster spots if they all developed. There are 2 things that you should do with prospects: know which ones to develop and choose which ones to trade for star talent. In the devils case Fitz is to scared to make big trades and won’t fire the coach. Fitz already doesn’t seem like the right guy but unless he shocks and makes big moves this offseason the Devils aren’t going anywhere while his is the GM.
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RFAANSCAP HIT
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NJD
  1. Choix de 5e ronde en 2023 (OTT)
OTT
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Détails additionnels:
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NJD
  1. Choix de 3e ronde en 2023 (DAL)
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NJD
  1. Tkachuk, Matthew [Droits de RFA]
CGY
  1. Holtz, Alexander
  2. Vukojevic, Michael
  3. Choix de 1e ronde en 2022 (NJD)
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TAILLE DE LA FORMATIONPLAFOND SALARIALCAP HITEXCÉDENTS Info-bulleBONISESPACE SOUS LE PLAFOND SALARIAL
2382 500 000 $77 553 333 $0 $932 500 $4 946 667 $

Formation

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AG, C
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23 mai 2022 à 13 h 51
#1
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God, the Fitz bashing is so overblown. Goes out and gets Hamilton but he "talks like he won't take the next step". Two years in a row he goes out and gets one of the better goalies available as a 1B...one retires on him, the other gets hurt, meanwhile Blackwood turned out to be an anti-vaxxer and we don't know the behind-the-scenes drama around his heel.

All while he went out and got Siegenthaler, Graves, Hamilton, etc....but no...Fitz doesn't know how to take the next step.

The Tkachuk trade doesn't make sense to CGY....he's at least a RFA they can hold onto and he powers that team.

The ultra-negative Devil fans need to get over it. Sometimes things don't work out, but Fitz has done nothing to bury this team in problems like other GMs do when they are desperate.

Ruff is the one thing that has to go though...he's been brutal with the PP and his overall defensive system has been awful.
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23 mai 2022 à 13 h 54
#2
1-0 them
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why did you keep Subban fitz already said he’s not resigning
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23 mai 2022 à 14 h 2
#3
Josh Anderson Sucks
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Devils are a goalie away from contending. Dont blow it up. Draft Slavkosky and dont rush him. Take your time with Luke Hughes. You will contend in 2-3 years. dont ruin what you have running for you
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23 mai 2022 à 14 h 15
#4
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Fitz is not the problem and I’m not sure Ruff is the problem either.

For last two years, we have been youngest team in NHL and have dealt with a pandemic and a ton of injuries.

Of all the non-playoff teams on the rise, I wouldn’t trade our rebuild for anyones.
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23 mai 2022 à 14 h 30
#5
Dougie HIMilton
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Quoting: NHLfan10506
Fitz is not the problem and I’m not sure Ruff is the problem either.

For last two years, we have been youngest team in NHL and have dealt with a pandemic and a ton of injuries.

Of all the non-playoff teams on the rise, I wouldn’t trade our rebuild for anyones.


correct take.

the ruff hate is overblown. He's made mistakes and I'd move on if I were the GM but he's far from the biggest problem (goaltending) or event he second biggest problem (powerplay).
Devil a aimé ceci.
23 mai 2022 à 14 h 50
#6
Speak of the Devil
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Quoting: BlackwoodForVezina
why did you keep Subban fitz already said he’s not resigning


Because he’s a clueless Fitz hater and Subban fan
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23 mai 2022 à 14 h 51
#7
Speak of the Devil
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Quoting: HeadHighSauce
correct take.

the ruff hate is overblown. He's made mistakes and I'd move on if I were the GM but he's far from the biggest problem (goaltending) or event he second biggest problem (powerplay).


Some of the draft picks were questionable but other than that he’s been a great GM
23 mai 2022 à 15 h 3
#8
Dougie HIMilton
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Quoting: Devil
Some of the draft picks were questionable but other than that he’s been a great GM


Yeah, true.

In my opinion...
Rossi/Perfetti/Jarvis > Holtz
Perreault/Lapierre > Shakir
Stankoven/Pastujov/Zellweger > Stillman

But yeah outside of those, I've liked most of the moves.
23 mai 2022 à 15 h 16
#9
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No way Calgary accepts that
23 mai 2022 à 15 h 24
#10
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Quoting: HeadHighSauce
Yeah, true.

In my opinion...
Rossi/Perfetti/Jarvis > Holtz
Perreault/Lapierre > Shakir
Stankoven/Pastujov/Zellweger > Stillman

But yeah outside of those, I've liked most of the moves.


Was Holtz the wrong pick…or just not the best pick? Maybe there were better options, but so far so good.

Stillman maybe early, but was good after trade.

And we are going to love DEFENSEMAN Shakir Mukhamadulkin as he plays defense for our defensive unit on the blue line where defensemen play defense.
23 mai 2022 à 15 h 36
#11
Dougie HIMilton
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Quoting: NHLfan10506
Was Holtz the wrong pick…or just not the best pick? Maybe there were better options, but so far so good.

Stillman maybe early, but was good after trade.

And we are going to love DEFENSEMAN Shakir Mukhamadulkin as he plays defense for our defensive unit on the blue line where defensemen play defense.


Holtz being good will never justify taking him over those three guys imo (but I would have taken Rossi at 1 tbh. Love that guy.). They were all clearly superior at the draft and 2/3 of them continue to be.

Stillman sucks. Awful pick even if he plays in the NHL. Cannot possibly justify him over any of the ones I mentioned. He was out produced by all but 6 OHL picks in his class, 5 of which were 6th round picks. Zero justification. none. He also produced at the exact same rate on both teams so.

Defenseman Shakir has worms in his brain
23 mai 2022 à 16 h 10
#12
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Quoting: HeadHighSauce
Holtz being good will never justify taking him over those three guys imo (but I would have taken Rossi at 1 tbh. Love that guy.). They were all clearly superior at the draft and 2/3 of them continue to be.

Stillman sucks. Awful pick even if he plays in the NHL. Cannot possibly justify him over any of the ones I mentioned. He was out produced by all but 6 OHL picks in his class, 5 of which were 6th round picks. Zero justification. none. He also produced at the exact same rate on both teams so.

Defenseman Shakir has worms in his brain


There will always be better picks for every team at every spot (except #1). And overall, our drafts have been fantastic.

Stillman played on a really bad team. Produced more after the trade. Book is still out on him. None of the guys you mentioned would have been my choice. I actually had Salminen on my list for that pick...which I though would be a dman (Iorio, Chayka)

I'd still have Holtz > Rossi. But could go either way. I had Perfetti #2 that year, still like him. And Jarvis I had late, but has proved me wrong. But hard to say Holtz was the wrong pick there.

Mukhamadullin will be good.
23 mai 2022 à 16 h 12
#13
Dougie HIMilton
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Quoting: NHLfan10506
There will always be better picks for every team at every spot (except #1). And overall, our drafts have been fantastic.

Stillman played on a really bad team. Produced more after the trade. Book is still out on him. None of the guys you mentioned would have been my choice. I actually had Salminen on my list for that pick...which I though would be a dman (Iorio, Chayka)

I'd still have Holtz > Rossi. But could go either way. I had Perfetti #2 that year, still like him. And Jarvis I had late, but has proved me wrong. But hard to say Holtz was the wrong pick there.

Mukhamadullin will be good.


Agree to disagree but Stillman did not produce more after the trade. It was functionally identical

20 in 24 = 0.833 ppg
29 in 35 = 0.828 ppg (and then 1 in 4 in the playoffs for 0.25 ppg)
23 mai 2022 à 16 h 27
#14
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Quoting: HeadHighSauce
Agree to disagree but Stillman did not produce more after the trade. It was functionally identical

20 in 24 = 0.833 ppg
29 in 35 = 0.828 ppg (and then 1 in 4 in the playoffs for 0.25 ppg)


Closer than I thought...but everything I have read had more positive reviews post trade.

I generally agree that it was a questionable pick. But give it a year or two.
23 mai 2022 à 16 h 29
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Quoting: HeadHighSauce
correct take.

the ruff hate is overblown. He's made mistakes and I'd move on if I were the GM but he's far from the biggest problem (goaltending) or event he second biggest problem (powerplay).


He's not the biggest problem, I agree, but there have been many things I have not liked from him this year. He's just not the future of this team and I'd rather move on with how many great coaches are available. I'd rather see the Devils with a coach that gives them their best shot before seeing a Fiala trade where we could move something too big too fast. I'd also love to see Gritsyuk come to the states and see how his game transfers.

But beyond all that, Fitz has to fix the goaltending issue. I don't blame him for the last two years.....the Crawford thing sucked. Bernier was okay and then got hurt. Can't blame Fitz for Blackwood going anti-vax and causing issues there.

A relatively injury free year would be the greatest medicine...
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23 mai 2022 à 16 h 32
#16
Dougie HIMilton
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Quoting: NHLfan10506
Closer than I thought...but everything I have read had more positive reviews post trade.

I generally agree that it was a questionable pick. But give it a year or two.


My hot take is that hindsight evaluation of draft picks is pretty lame because you have to evaluate team's drafting based on information they had /at the time/. Even if Stillman pans out, its a pick that casts SERIOUS doubts on the drafting process of the Devils front office because there were obviously better players than him available. Between the two of us we named 5.

I'm not rooting against any of these guys and I see why we drafted Holtz and Shakir (they have high ceilings, no doubt) but yeah. Just my one main criticism of Fitz so far. I don't like the guiding philosophy. Picking Slafkovsky is so obvious because of how clear their draft strategy seems - address team need/fit.
23 mai 2022 à 16 h 56
#17
Speak of the Devil
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Quoting: NHLfan10506
Was Holtz the wrong pick…or just not the best pick? Maybe there were better options, but so far so good.

Stillman maybe early, but was good after trade.

And we are going to love DEFENSEMAN Shakir Mukhamadulkin as he plays defense for our defensive unit on the blue line where defensemen play defense.


Quoting: HeadHighSauce
Holtz being good will never justify taking him over those three guys imo (but I would have taken Rossi at 1 tbh. Love that guy.). They were all clearly superior at the draft and 2/3 of them continue to be.

Stillman sucks. Awful pick even if he plays in the NHL. Cannot possibly justify him over any of the ones I mentioned. He was out produced by all but 6 OHL picks in his class, 5 of which were 6th round picks. Zero justification. none. He also produced at the exact same rate on both teams so.

Defenseman Shakir has worms in his brain


Holtz will be a good pick. Fits our needs more than Perfetti, Rossi, etc.

Shakir was be a meh pick. Could have traded back and still have gotten him. Pick 20 was a reach

Stillman was a bad pick. Should have traded up for Wallstedt
23 mai 2022 à 17 h 2
#18
Dougie HIMilton
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Quote:
Holtz will be a good pick. Fits our needs more than Perfetti, Rossi, etc.


I fundamentally disagree with drafting for needs. And I actually disagree. Rossi's "heavy skill" is more what we need than Holtz's shot.
23 mai 2022 à 21 h 34
#19
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Quoting: Devil
Holtz will be a good pick. Fits our needs more than Perfetti, Rossi, etc.

Shakir was be a meh pick. Could have traded back and still have gotten him. Pick 20 was a reach

Stillman was a bad pick. Should have traded up for Wallstedt


Agree on Holtz.

Mostly agree on Stillman, but hard to make a call since he hasn't played a normal season in years (OHL was off in 2020-21 and only played limited opposition this year).

Mukhamadullin wasn't going to make it to their next pick (#84). He was a huge risk, but only because NHL typically doesn't taken Russian dmen early. Most of his predecessors had played a year or two in North America first (Provorov, Sergachev, Zadorov, Kulikov, etc). It had been nearly two decades since a Russian dman was taken out of Russia in the first round. But much of that risk dissipated the minute he signed with NJ...and later joined AHL team. Fans and NA hockey writers won't like the pick until he plays in NHL games. But many of the reviews by actual hockey people have been good, if not better than good. EP Rinkside: A Year Later, Shakir Mukhamadullin's NHL upside is more evident than ever before or Draft Analyst (who is also diehard Ranger fan): A true No. 1. The size, the skating, the agility, the passing, the cannon. Keep an open mine. You will love him.

Quoting: HeadHighSauce
Quote:
Holtz will be a good pick. Fits our needs more than Perfetti, Rossi, etc.


I fundamentally disagree with drafting for needs. And I actually disagree. Rossi's "heavy skill" is more what we need than Holtz's shot.


He may have been a bowling ball in OHL, but no guarantee that translates in the pros.
And considering we took a center with the next pick, I don't think it was a positional thing at all.
(I think Rossi would have been good pick too, just don't think Holtz can be seen as bad pick at this point)

And Fitzy and MacKinnon have both pushed off on calling Holtz simply "a shooter".
He has a great shot, but his game is much more than that.
23 mai 2022 à 21 h 36
#20
Dougie HIMilton
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Modifié 24 mai 2022 à 8 h 56
Quoting: NHLfan10506
Agree on Holtz.

Mostly agree on Stillman, but hard to make a call since he hasn't played a normal season in years (OHL was off in 2020-21 and only played limited opposition this year).

Mukhamadullin wasn't going to make it to their next pick (#84). He was a huge risk, but only because NHL typically doesn't taken Russian dmen early. Most of his predecessors had played a year or two in North America first (Provorov, Sergachev, Zadorov, Kulikov, etc). It had been nearly two decades since a Russian dman was taken out of Russia in the first round. But much of that risk dissipated the minute he signed with NJ...and later joined AHL team. Fans and NA hockey writers won't like the pick until he plays in NHL games. But many of the reviews by actual hockey people have been good, if not better than good. EP Rinkside: A Year Later, Shakir Mukhamadullin's NHL upside is more evident than ever before or Draft Analyst (who is also diehard Ranger fan): A true No. 1. The size, the skating, the agility, the passing, the cannon. Keep an open mine. You will love him.



I fundamentally disagree with drafting for needs. And I actually disagree. Rossi's "heavy skill" is more what we need than Holtz's shot.

Quote:

He may have been a bowling ball in OHL, but no guarantee that translates in the pros.
And considering we took a center with the next pick, I don't think it was a positional thing at all.
(I think Rossi would have been good pick too, just don't think Holtz can be seen as bad pick at this point)

And Fitzy and MacKinnon have both pushed off on calling Holtz simply "a shooter".
He has a great shot, but his game is much more than that.


I’ve strongly argued since he was drafted that Holtz was more than a shooter but it’s no coincidence we drafted the best shooter in the draft after finishing close to league last in finishing metrics. He was a team fit pick not positional, per se.
24 mai 2022 à 9 h 27
#21
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Icedragon4405
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Quoting: BlackwoodForVezina
why did you keep Subban fitz already said he’s not resigning


1st, him saying that means nothing and 2nd: I would only want Subban back if there is a different coach that utilizes him properly. Devils fans complain about Subban sucking part of it isn’t his fault. His entire career he was a top Offensive D man in the league and he last 2 seasons with the devils he got barley any quality PP time. He got now this year. They have always used him as a defensive defenseman which is wrong.
24 mai 2022 à 9 h 31
#22
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Icedragon4405
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Quoting: Devil
Because he’s a clueless Fitz hater and Subban fan


Well let’s wait and see this summer, Fitz will prove I’m right when he doesn’t go out and acquire winger depth
24 mai 2022 à 9 h 47
#23
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Icedragon4405
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Quoting: NJDevils1317
God, the Fitz bashing is so overblown. Goes out and gets Hamilton but he "talks like he won't take the next step". Two years in a row he goes out and gets one of the better goalies available as a 1B...one retires on him, the other gets hurt, meanwhile Blackwood turned out to be an anti-vaxxer and we don't know the behind-the-scenes drama around his heel.

All while he went out and got Siegenthaler, Graves, Hamilton, etc....but no...Fitz doesn't know how to take the next step.

The Tkachuk trade doesn't make sense to CGY....he's at least a RFA they can hold onto and he powers that team.

The ultra-negative Devil fans need to get over it. Sometimes things don't work out, but Fitz has done nothing to bury this team in problems like other GMs do when they are desperate.

Ruff is the one thing that has to go though...he's been brutal with the PP and his overall defensive system has been awful.


The owner should be asking Fitz what his plans are with Ruff and if he says “I think he is gonna stick around” they should fire him and Ruff. I seriously doubt that Fitz will go out and acquire the winger depth they need, It is almost as big a problem as goaltending, they need talented wingers
24 mai 2022 à 9 h 59
#24
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Quoting: Icedragon4405
The owner should be asking Fitz what his plans are with Ruff and if he says “I think he is gonna stick around” they should fire him and Ruff. I seriously doubt that Fitz will go out and acquire the winger depth they need, It is almost as big a problem as goaltending, they need talented wingers


Well to the "I think he sticks around" is cryptic in itself as the quote was something along the line of "we will work together to rebuild the coaching staff" and I don't know if that was a matter of Ruff staying, but like Fitz the out of Ruff moving to a "Special assistant" and they hire another coach. I get being angry at Fitz if he wants to give Ruff another year.

As for the wingers and your doubt he goes out and gets a winger....I think you have to be more realistic in the idea they'd have to be players teams would move. He went out and gone Johnsson for nothing. Even if he didn't work out, he did go out and get someone for a career scratch/AHL player in Anderson. I didn't hear many people hate that move when it happened. Same for when he signed Tatar to that two year deal. He took the chance, and he didn't work out. I'd rather him have paid Tatar more per year to keep it to two years rather being stuck with a 3rd.

Not every move works out, but that can be just as much on the player. He has not sat on his hands the whole time. For all those that complained about Hammond and Gillies...two things....Who the hell cared by the end of the season that you REALLY wanted to put in assets to finish in 8th to last instead of 5th to last...and what goalies were available otherwise? So many teams had injured goalies....only the teams "in it" really felt they should spend the assets.

So we shall see, but you need to be realistic in the options that are out there, because pie in the sky thinking and then being upset when he can't accomplish that big of a goal just sets the bar so high you get to claim victory.
24 mai 2022 à 10 h 38
#25
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Icedragon4405
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Quoting: NJDevils1317
Well to the "I think he sticks around" is cryptic in itself as the quote was something along the line of "we will work together to rebuild the coaching staff" and I don't know if that was a matter of Ruff staying, but like Fitz the out of Ruff moving to a "Special assistant" and they hire another coach. I get being angry at Fitz if he wants to give Ruff another year.

As for the wingers and your doubt he goes out and gets a winger....I think you have to be more realistic in the idea they'd have to be players teams would move. He went out and gone Johnsson for nothing. Even if he didn't work out, he did go out and get someone for a career scratch/AHL player in Anderson. I didn't hear many people hate that move when it happened. Same for when he signed Tatar to that two year deal. He took the chance, and he didn't work out. I'd rather him have paid Tatar more per year to keep it to two years rather being stuck with a 3rd.

Not every move works out, but that can be just as much on the player. He has not sat on his hands the whole time. For all those that complained about Hammond and Gillies...two things....Who the hell cared by the end of the season that you REALLY wanted to put in assets to finish in 8th to last instead of 5th to last...and what goalies were available otherwise? So many teams had injured goalies....only the teams "in it" really felt they should spend the assets.

So we shall see, but you need to be realistic in the options that are out there, because pie in the sky thinking and then being upset when he can't accomplish that big of a goal just sets the bar so high you get to claim victory.


When I say go out and get wingers I mean Free agency the free agent winger class this year is stacked
 
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