Forums/Armchair-GM

How Devils should approach Fiala trade

Créé par: NHLfan10506
Date de création initiale: 22 mai 2022
Publié: 22 mai 2022
Équipe: 2022-23 Devils du New Jersey
Explications
How to get Fiala: Treat him like an UFA.

(1) Offer him the contract he wants
(2) Offer him a chance to play with Nico and Siegs

As an RFA, he has the ability to talk to any team this summer as if he were a UFA. If he agrees to extend with one team, all other team's offers will shrink as they would then be buying a rental. In other words, Devils wouldn't have to meet MIN's asking price. NJD bid for an extended Fiala would only have to beat other teams bidding price for a rental Fiala.

Other teams may be offering a 1st and a prospect for him. Maybe more. But those deals will be contingent on Fiala signing an extension. If NJD makes itself Fiala's top choice, it removes the extension with other teams as an option. That would likely void out many of the top offers out there.

--------

In short...
-- Fiala is likely gone considering his and Guerin's recent statements
-- We don't know the asking price, but we don't have to meet it.
-- If he wants to play with Nico and Siegs, and we can meet contract demands, he will want to sign here.
-- Other teams best offers will be contingent on an extension.
-- We just have to beat out bids for 1-year of Fiala.


--------

So what is in the trade package?

First, lets get these off table as assets NJD isn't trading

-- (Picks) 2022 2nd overall
-- (Players) Hughes, Hischier, Bratt, Mercer, Sharangovich, Hamilton, Severson, Siegenthaler
-- (Prospects) Holtz, Hughes


So items that would likely be available

PICKS
-- (2022): 2nd (#37), 3rd (#69), 4th (#101), 4th (#109), 4th (#118), 5th (#140), 6th (#165), 7th (#197)
-- (2023): Playoff or top-10 protected 1st, 2nd, 3rd, 4th, 5th, 6th, 7th
-- (2024): Top-5 protected 1st, 2nd, 3rd, 4th, 5th, 6th, 7th

PROSPECTS
-- (A) Gritsyuk
-- (A-) Zetterlund, Foote, Okhotiuk, Walsh
-- (B+) Bahl, Daws, Edwards, Salminen, Stillman, Bardakov, Schmid
-- (B) Thompson, McCarthy, Vilen, Vukojevic, Halonen
-- (B-) Clarke, Misyul, Moynihan, Pasic, Malek, Pytlik

PLAYERS
-- (Fwd) Zacha, Boqvist, Tatar, Kuokkanen, Johnsson, Wood, McLeod, Bastian
-- (Def) Graves, Smith

--------

Note - I signed Fiala to only three years in case he wants another bite of the FA apple in few years (like Reinhart). If he preferred long-term deal, that would be option too.
Signatures de joueurs autonomes
RFAANSCAP HIT
Bratt, Jesper76 500 000 $
Wood, Miles23 000 000 $
Boqvist, Jesper2900 000 $
Zetterlund, Fabian2800 000 $
Thompson, Tyce2800 000 $
Fiala, Kevin38 000 000 $
Transactions
1.
NJD
  1. Fiala, Kevin [Droits de RFA]
MIN
  1. Boqvist, Jesper
  2. Zetterlund, Fabian
  3. 2022 2e round pick (NJD)
Rachats de contrats
  • Cory Schneider: 2 000 000 $
Frais appliqués
  • Ilya Kovalchuk: 250 000 $
ANNÉE DE REPÊCHAGERONDE 1RONDE 2RONDE 3RONDE 4RONDE 5RONDE 6RONDE 7
2022
Logo de NJD
Logo de NJD
Logo de NJD
Logo de EDM
Logo de NYI
Logo de CBJ
Logo de NJD
Logo de NJD
2023
Logo de NJD
Logo de NJD
Logo de NJD
Logo de NJD
Logo de NJD
Logo de NJD
Logo de NJD
2024
Logo de NJD
Logo de NJD
Logo de NJD
Logo de NJD
Logo de NJD
Logo de NJD
Logo de NJD
TAILLE DE LA FORMATIONPLAFOND SALARIALCAP HITEXCÉDENTS Info-bulleBONISESPACE SOUS LE PLAFOND SALARIAL
2382 500 000 $78 038 334 $0 $2 265 000 $4 461 666 $
Ailier gaucheCentreAilier droit
Logo de NJD
Sharangovich, Yegor
2 000 000 $
AG, AD, C
RFA - 1
Logo de NJD
Hughes, Jack
8 000 000 $
C
UFA - 8
Logo de NJD
Bratt, Jesper
6 500 000 $
AD, AG
RFA
Logo de NJD
Holtz, Alexander
894 167 $
AD, AG
RFA - 3
Logo de NJD
Hischier, Nico
7 250 000 $
C
UFA - 5
Fiala, Kevin
8 000 000 $
AD, AG
UFA - 7
Logo de NJD
Johnsson, Andreas
3 400 000 $
AG, AD
NTC
UFA - 1
Logo de NJD
Mercer, Dawson
894 167 $
C, AD
RFA - 2
Logo de NJD
Tatar, Tomas
4 500 000 $
AG, AD
UFA - 1
Logo de NJD
Wood, Miles
3 000 000 $
AG
RFA
Logo de NJD
Mcleod, Michael
975 000 $
C
RFA - 1
Logo de NJD
Bastian, Nathan
825 000 $
AD, C
RFA - 1
Défenseur gaucherDéfenseur droitierGardien de but
Logo de NJD
Graves, Ryan
3 166 667 $
DG
UFA - 1
Logo de NJD
Hamilton, Dougie
9 000 000 $
DD
NMC
UFA - 6
Logo de NJD
Blackwood, Mackenzie
2 800 000 $
G
RFA - 1
Logo de NJD
Siegenthaler, Jonas
1 125 000 $
DG
RFA - 1
Logo de NJD
Severson, Damon
4 166 666 $
DD
UFA - 1
Logo de NJD
Bernier, Jonathan
4 125 000 $
G
UFA - 1
Logo de NJD
Okhotiuk, Nikita
789 167 $
DG
RFA - 2
Logo de NJD
Mukhamadullin, Shakir
894 167 $
DD
RFA - 3
Laissés de côtéListe des blessés (IR)Liste des blessés à long terme (LTIR)
Logo de NJD
Smith, Ty
863 333 $
DG/DD
RFA - 1
Logo de NJD
Kuokkanen, Janne
1 825 000 $
AG, C
RFA - 1
Logo de NJD
Bahl, Kevin
795 000 $
DG
RFA - 1

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22 mai à 11 h 16
#1
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Yea, I dont see that getting it done.

He still is not a UFA so Minnesota can trade him wherever they want.
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22 mai à 11 h 21
#2
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very entertaining idea! i would say there is about 0.1% chance of happening and 99% sure its agaisnt the cba (if somehow you could prove he has contract terms agreed for next year, which realisticly you probably wont be able to prove).
22 mai à 12 h 23
#3
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Fiala is gone by the draft. I don't think you can talk to other team's RFAs until after the draft.
22 mai à 12 h 28
#4
Fiala to NJ
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Zacha + Bahl + 2nd?
22 mai à 13 h 10
#5
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An overwhelming return here, for sure. If you are not trading your 2nd OA pick (understandable) or Holtz, then your 2023 1st must be there.
22 mai à 14 h 4
#6
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Quoting: littlejerryseinfeld
Yea, I dont see that getting it done.

He still is not a UFA so Minnesota can trade him wherever they want.


True, but he is also not going to extend if he doesn’t want to go someplace. And if he is not going to extend, teams won’t trade for him.
22 mai à 14 h 5
#7
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As a Devils fan I'm open to moving the 2nd overall pick for Fiala, but MIN needs to add. I'd want their late 1st and a prospect at least (maybe Johansson or a depth roster player to improve our bottom 6).

The most realistic situation is the 2nd pick not involved at all.
22 mai à 14 h 7
#8
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Quoting: drambui
very entertaining idea! i would say there is about 0.1% chance of happening and 99% sure its agaisnt the cba (if somehow you could prove he has contract terms agreed for next year, which realisticly you probably wont be able to prove).


It is 100% legal, fair and appropriate under CBA. Fiala does not have a contract. Devils would still need to trade for his rights, but they can speak with him
22 mai à 14 h 10
#9
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Quoting: holtzer
As a Devils fan I'm open to moving the 2nd overall pick for Fiala, but MIN needs to add. I'd want their late 1st and a prospect at least (maybe Johansson or a depth roster player to improve our bottom 6).

The most realistic situation is the 2nd pick not involved at all.


I don’t think the 2nd pick will be involved at all. Unless Minnesota somehow gets picks 3, 4 or 5 and Devils move back a few spots.
22 mai à 14 h 18
#10
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Quoting: EccE
An overwhelming return here, for sure. If you are not trading your 2nd OA pick (understandable) or Holtz, then your 2023 1st must be there.


I think the premise of the thread was lost here.

If Fiala decides he wants to be in NJ (or any team) Minnesota losses all the bids that say “with extension”. Because he wouldn’t agree to extend elsewhere before trade.

From NJD perspective, we pay up on contract, pay less on trade.

From MIN perspective, it becomes a “get what you can” type of trade.

I would think it would be in Minnesota’s best interest to deny Fiala from speaking with other teams until the moment he is allowed to….when he becomes free agent (RFA) after the draft

Either way, Guerin is in a pickle and has zero leverage.
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22 mai à 14 h 43
#11
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Quoting: NHLfan10506
I think the premise of the thread was lost here.

If Fiala decides he wants to be in NJ (or any team) Minnesota losses all the bids that say “with extension”. Because he wouldn’t agree to extend elsewhere before trade.

From NJD perspective, we pay up on contract, pay less on trade.

From MIN perspective, it becomes a “get what you can” type of trade.

I would think it would be in Minnesota’s best interest to deny Fiala from speaking with other teams until the moment he is allowed to….when he becomes free agent (RFA) after the draft

Either way, Guerin is in a pickle and has zero leverage.


i understand more now what you are saying. didnt that happen with trouba too? said he would only extend with the rangers, but they still managed to get pionk and a first out of them? i guess if thats the case guerin could indeed lose leverage, but they would probably get a decent offer still like trouba did. i guess fiala is probably open to extend to many team, which is how it usually for players, trouba was more an exception . but i get your hypotetical scenario.
22 mai à 14 h 52
#12
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Quoting: drambui
i understand more now what you are saying. didnt that happen with trouba too? said he would only extend with the rangers, but they still managed to get pionk and a first out of them? i guess if thats the case guerin could indeed lose leverage, but they would probably get a decent offer still like trouba did. i guess fiala is probably open to extend to many team, which is how it usually for players, trouba was more an exception . but i get your hypotetical scenario.


Yes the Trouba scenario fits. I believe his wife is a doctor in NYC and she wanted to be there.

And if Minnesota loses value on the return (by Fiala chosing a destination), I am not saying they get 10 cents on the dollar. But it’s probably the difference between getting Holtz and a mid pick or Zetterlund and #37 pick.

If I am NJ GM, and Guerin allows me to talk to him pre-draft, this would be the approach I’d take.
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22 mai à 14 h 58
#13
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Quoting: NHLfan10506
Yes the Trouba scenario fits. I believe his wife is a doctor in NYC and she wanted to be there.

And if Minnesota loses value on the return (by Fiala chosing a destination), I am not saying they get 10 cents on the dollar. But it’s probably the difference between getting Holtz and a mid pick or Zetterlund and #37 pick.

If I am NJ GM, and Guerin allows me to talk to him pre-draft, this would be the approach I’d take.


you can try, but in the end fiala is the one with the leverage, his priority wil probably be to cash in on his big season, so i imagine he'll be pretty open to go to many place as long as he is happy there and he gets paid.
22 mai à 15 h 0
#14
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Quoting: drambui
you can try, but in the end fiala is the one with the leverage, his priority wil probably be to cash in on his big season, so i imagine he'll be pretty open to go to many place as long as he is happy there and he gets paid.


Yes, this only works for NJ if they are meeting his contract demands.
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22 mai à 16 h 2
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Quoting: NHLfan10506
I think the premise of the thread was lost here.

If Fiala decides he wants to be in NJ (or any team) Minnesota losses all the bids that say “with extension”. Because he wouldn’t agree to extend elsewhere before trade.

From NJD perspective, we pay up on contract, pay less on trade.

From MIN perspective, it becomes a “get what you can” type of trade.

I would think it would be in Minnesota’s best interest to deny Fiala from speaking with other teams until the moment he is allowed to….when he becomes free agent (RFA) after the draft

Either way, Guerin is in a pickle and has zero leverage.


I don’t see Fitzgerald going down the path of trying to lowball a guy he used to work closely with in Pittsburgh’s front office.
But, for the sake of argument, let’s say he does.
Billy doesn’t strike me as the kind of guy who would just accept a “whatever I can get” deal. I think Bill plays hardball with Tom by saying “you want him at 3x8? Go ahead and offer sheet him.”
Fiala and his agent would also have to be careful approaching the offseason this way. Bill can always just QO him and sit on it. This would force Kevin into a number of scenarios. 1. Open up extension negotiations with other teams. 2. Elect to go to arbitration. If that were to occur, teams would know the exact price of him on a one year deal, most likely in the 5.5-7.0 mil range, opening up bidding war with 2023 1sts as a starting price. 3. Be prepared to sit the entire 22-23 season (obviously, this wouldn’t be good for either side).

It may not seem like Guerin has any leverage, but he does.
24 mai à 12 h 37
#16
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Quoting: BoredWildFan
I don’t see Fitzgerald going down the path of trying to lowball a guy he used to work closely with in Pittsburgh’s front office.
But, for the sake of argument, let’s say he does.
Billy doesn’t strike me as the kind of guy who would just accept a “whatever I can get” deal. I think Bill plays hardball with Tom by saying “you want him at 3x8? Go ahead and offer sheet him.”
Fiala and his agent would also have to be careful approaching the offseason this way. Bill can always just QO him and sit on it. This would force Kevin into a number of scenarios. 1. Open up extension negotiations with other teams. 2. Elect to go to arbitration. If that were to occur, teams would know the exact price of him on a one year deal, most likely in the 5.5-7.0 mil range, opening up bidding war with 2023 1sts as a starting price. 3. Be prepared to sit the entire 22-23 season (obviously, this wouldn’t be good for either side).

It may not seem like Guerin has any leverage, but he does.


And GMBG will use it. He took Fiala to arbitration last year because he didn't like Fiala's ask. I could see us taking him to arbitration again and playing him this year if we don't like the offers
24 mai à 13 h 10
#17
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Quoting: BoredWildFan
I don’t see Fitzgerald going down the path of trying to lowball a guy he used to work closely with in Pittsburgh’s front office.
But, for the sake of argument, let’s say he does.
Billy doesn’t strike me as the kind of guy who would just accept a “whatever I can get” deal. I think Bill plays hardball with Tom by saying “you want him at 3x8? Go ahead and offer sheet him.”
Fiala and his agent would also have to be careful approaching the offseason this way. Bill can always just QO him and sit on it. This would force Kevin into a number of scenarios. 1. Open up extension negotiations with other teams. 2. Elect to go to arbitration. If that were to occur, teams would know the exact price of him on a one year deal, most likely in the 5.5-7.0 mil range, opening up bidding war with 2023 1sts as a starting price. 3. Be prepared to sit the entire 22-23 season (obviously, this wouldn’t be good for either side).

It may not seem like Guerin has any leverage, but he does.


How would the timing of all this work though? Guerin has to trade him before the draft (July 7-8) which is before the deadline for qualifying offers. Fiala can talk to other teams on the day after the draft.

If they offer a qualifying offer and don’t trade him at draft, he could then talk to other teams, find the one he likes best, and say to Guerin, trade me there. Guerin has no market. He cannot sit him for a year as he will have already offered a QO. Best a case scenario is Fiala declines QO, signs offer sheet, MIn gets a bunch of picks. Worst case, MIN ships out Dumba at draft to make room for Fiala, and he signs QO, and becomes 1-year rental.

If they don’t offer a QO, he immediately becomes an unrestricted free agent.

In other words, unless he can extend him, Guerin has to trade him. And has to do it at or before draft. He has zero leverage with other teams.
24 mai à 13 h 25
#18
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I've never seen anyone want a player as badly as OP wants Fiala without wanting to give up anything of value for him. The mental gymnastics you do to lower his value (but you still want to trade for him and sign him long term) is impressive. Every day it's a different lowball offer.
24 mai à 13 h 36
#19
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Quoting: Caerii
I've never seen anyone want a player as badly as OP wants Fiala without wanting to give up anything of value for him. The mental gymnastics you do to lower his value (but you still want to trade for him and sign him long term) is impressive. Every day it's a different lowball offer.


Mental gymnastics? What are you saying?

Remember a few months ago when Wild fans were asking for Mercer, Hughes and the 1st? That was fun.
24 mai à 20 h 27
#20
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Quoting: NHLfan10506
How would the timing of all this work though? Guerin has to trade him before the draft (July 7-8) which is before the deadline for qualifying offers. Fiala can talk to other teams on the day after the draft.

If they offer a qualifying offer and don’t trade him at draft, he could then talk to other teams, find the one he likes best, and say to Guerin, trade me there. Guerin has no market. He cannot sit him for a year as he will have already offered a QO. Best a case scenario is Fiala declines QO, signs offer sheet, MIn gets a bunch of picks. Worst case, MIN ships out Dumba at draft to make room for Fiala, and he signs QO, and becomes 1-year rental.

If they don’t offer a QO, he immediately becomes an unrestricted free agent.

In other words, unless he can extend him, Guerin has to trade him. And has to do it at or before draft. He has zero leverage with other teams.


Guerin is not under a draft deadline to trade Fiala. There is no requirement to get a 2022 pick in return.
If it’s agreed by both sides, pre-draft, that Fiala will not return to MN, then he’ll be given permission to speak to other teams in hopes of getting a fair trade completed. If Billy doesn’t feel a fair deal is being offered he doesn’t need to take “whatever I can get”. He can bide his time.
After the draft, the Wild will QO Fiala, retaining his RFA rights. Fiala will most definitely refuse the QO. At that point, one of a few scenarios plays out.
1) The team Fiala wants to play for ups it’s offer and a trade is completed.
2) Fiala signs an offer sheet. Great, MN gets multiple picks including at least one unprotected 1st in 2023.
3) Fiala is forced to expand the number of teams he’s willing to sign with longterm so a fair trade can be completed.
4) Fiala elects to go to arbitration. That’s fine too. As soon as that is announced he becomes a one year rental with roughly a 5.5-7.0mil price tag. There will be plenty of bidders for a 26 year old coming off an 85 point season. Even if it is a rental, a fair deal will get done.
5) If Fiala chooses to pass on options 1-4, then he better be prepared to sit out next season. MN still owns his rights and offered him a contract that he refused to sign.

Billy has plenty of leverage.

As a side note. Fiala’s agent also represents Matt Dumba. Dumba loves Minnesota so it probably wouldn’t be in the agent’s best interest to piss off Billy by trying to force thru a bad Fiala trade.
24 mai à 20 h 39
#21
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Quoting: BoredWildFan
1) The team Fiala wants to play for ups it’s offer and a trade is completed.


Agree with all the above except this point.

The minute Fiala selects a team, it voids most other offers (that were contingent on an extension). The market for him shrinks to that one team and whoever wants him as a rental.

Thus, trade return will shrink.

Look at the history of past RFAs who have been traded. Most recently Buchnevich and Reinhart. Use those as your guide.
24 mai à 21 h 20
#22
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Quoting: BoredWildFan
1) The team Fiala wants to play for ups it’s offer and a trade is completed.

Quoting: NHLfan10506
Agree with all the above except this point.

The minute Fiala selects a team, it voids most other offers (that were contingent on an extension). The market for him shrinks to that one team and whoever wants him as a rental.

Thus, trade return will shrink.

Look at the history of past RFAs who have been traded. Most recently Buchnevich and Reinhart. Use those as your guide.


But, that’s why it’s the first point. Billy won’t be lowballed. He won’t allow Fiala and his agent, or another GM, to force a trade thru. If the team Fiala wants to sign with doesn’t come up on its offer, it forces Fiala to choose one of the other scenarios.

Look, I’m not one of these people that think Fiala will get 2oa and Holtz. But, he’s certainly getting a lot more than a 2nd and Blais. He’ll fetch a 1st and a prospect.
24 mai à 21 h 24
#23
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Quoting: BoredWildFan
Quoting: BoredWildFan
1) The team Fiala wants to play for ups it’s offer and a trade is completed.



But, that’s why it’s the first point. Billy won’t be lowballed. He won’t allow Fiala and his agent, or another GM, to force a trade thru. If the team Fiala wants to sign with doesn’t come up on its offer, it forces Fiala to choose one of the other scenarios.

Look, I’m not one of these people that think Fiala will get 2oa and Holtz. But, he’s certainly getting a lot more than a 2nd and Blais. He’ll fetch a 1st and a prospect.


If we had another 1st to trade, we’d give it. But maybe Anaheim and Buffalo are better bets since they have the second 1st to trade.
25 mai à 17 h 38
#24
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Quoting: NHLfan10506
Mental gymnastics? What are you saying?

Remember a few months ago when Wild fans were asking for Mercer, Hughes and the 1st? That was fun.


I don't remember that because I never asked for that. Nice strawman though.
 
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