Forums/Armchair-GM

I dont hate it

Créé par: wabit
Date de création initiale: 18 mai 2022
Publié: 18 mai 2022
Équipe: 2022-23 Wild du Minnesota
Explications
I just wanted to see with Brown @ 50% retained
Signatures de joueurs autonomes
RFAANSCAP HIT
Dewar, Connor2800 000 $
Middleton, Jacob33 000 000 $
UFAANSCAP HIT
Fleury, Marc-André13 000 000 $
Transactions
1.
MIN
  1. Brown, Connor (1 800 000 $ retained)
  2. 2022 1e round pick (OTT)
OTT
  1. Fiala, Kevin [Droits de RFA]
2.
MIN
  1. 2024 4e round pick (WSH)
somewhere
WSH
  1. Kulikov, Dmitry
Rachats de contrats
  • Zach Parise: 6 371 794 $
  • Ryan Suter: 6 371 794 $
ANNÉE DE REPÊCHAGERONDE 1RONDE 2RONDE 3RONDE 4RONDE 5RONDE 6RONDE 7
2022
Logo de MIN
Logo de OTT
Logo de VAN
Logo de MIN
Logo de MIN
Logo de MIN
Logo de MIN
2023
Logo de MIN
Logo de MIN
Logo de MIN
Logo de MIN
Logo de MIN
Logo de MIN
2024
Logo de MIN
Logo de MIN
Logo de MIN
Logo de MIN
Logo de WSH
Logo de MIN
Logo de MIN
Logo de MIN
TAILLE DE LA FORMATIONPLAFOND SALARIALCAP HITEXCÉDENTS Info-bulleBONISESPACE SOUS LE PLAFOND SALARIAL
2282 500 000 $82 324 421 $0 $1 532 500 $175 579 $
Ailier gaucheCentreAilier droit
Logo de MIN
Kaprizov, Kirill
9 000 000 $
AG, AD
UFA - 4
Logo de MIN
Hartman, Ryan
1 700 000 $
C, AD
UFA - 2
Logo de MIN
Zuccarello, Mats
6 000 000 $
AD, AG
NMC NTC
UFA - 2
Logo de MIN
Foligno, Marcus
3 100 000 $
AG, AD
UFA - 2
Logo de MIN
Eriksson Ek, Joel
5 250 000 $
C
UFA - 7
Logo de MIN
Greenway, Jordan
3 000 000 $
AG, AD
UFA - 3
Logo de MIN
Boldy, Matthew
880 833 $
AG, AD
RFA - 1
Logo de MIN
Rossi, Marco
863 333 $
C
RFA - 3
Logo de OTT
Brown, Connor
1 800 000 $
AG, AD
UFA - 1
Logo de MIN
Dewar, Connor
800 000 $
AG
RFA - 2
Logo de MIN
Gaudreau, Frédérick
1 200 000 $
C
UFA - 1
Logo de MIN
Duhaime, Brandon
750 000 $
AG, AD
RFA - 1
Défenseur gaucherDéfenseur droitierGardien de but
Logo de MIN
Brodin, Jonas
6 000 000 $
DG
NMC
UFA - 6
Logo de MIN
Dumba, Matt
6 000 000 $
DD
NTC
UFA - 1
Logo de MIN
Talbot, Cam
3 666 667 $
G
UFA - 1
Logo de MIN
Middleton, Jacob
3 000 000 $
DG
RFA
Logo de MIN
Spurgeon, Jared
7 575 000 $
DD
NMC
UFA - 5
Logo de MIN
Fleury, Marc-André
3 000 000 $
G
UFA
Logo de MIN
Merrill, Jon
1 200 000 $
DG
UFA - 3
Logo de MIN
Addison, Calen
795 000 $
DD
RFA - 1
Laissés de côtéListe des blessés (IR)Liste des blessés à long terme (LTIR)
Logo de MIN
Goligoski, Alex
2 000 000 $
DG/DD
NMC
UFA - 2
Logo de MIN
Jost, Tyson
2 000 000 $
C, AG, AD
RFA - 1

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18 mai à 12 h 29
#1
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CBrown @ 50% is worth 1st+

So it would be 7OA + CBrown @ 50% for

Fiala + MIN 1st?
ThatBoredHockeyFan et Cowling a aimé ceci.
18 mai à 12 h 38
#2
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Quoting: PLDGEY
CBrown 50% is worth 1st+

So it would be 7OA + CBrown 50% for

Fiala + MIN 1st?


Nope. He's just a sweetener and not a need for MN.

Go ahead and keep Brown if he's worth a 1st+. Maybe TDL prices, not offseason rental prices.
18 mai à 12 h 43
#3
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Quoting: wabit
Nope. He's just a sweetener and not a need for MN.

Go ahead and keep Brown if he's worth a 1st+. Maybe TDL prices, not offseason rental prices.


Happy to.

I love the idea of keeping 7OA
Cowling et Xspyrit a aimé ceci.
18 mai à 12 h 51
#4
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I hate it from Ottawa’s perspective. Have to agree with PLDGEY that Brown is worth at least a 1st and is by no means a throw in. I think Sens fans are already grappling with the idea of giving 7th for Fiala so throwing in the value an additional 1st is a pass for me.
Cowling et Xspyrit a aimé ceci.
18 mai à 13 h 8
#5
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Quoting: wabit
Nope. He's just a sweetener and not a need for MN.

Go ahead and keep Brown if he's worth a 1st+. Maybe TDL prices, not offseason rental prices.


a sweetener? ottawa doesn't need to help wild out with there cap problems 7OA for non playoff performer.. is a no deal lucky if ottawa offers there 2nd rd for that rfa?
18 mai à 13 h 10
#6
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7OA AND brown for fiala and Hartmann..than its a deal....lol
18 mai à 13 h 30
#7
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Quoting: PLDGEY
CBrown 50% is worth 1st+

So it would be 7OA + CBrown 50% for

Fiala + MIN 1st?


OK, but is he tho? Dude is 28, UFA at the end of the year and never had a 50 pt season.
MNBassman a aimé ceci.
18 mai à 13 h 40
#8
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Quoting: jnowariak
OK, but is he tho? Dude is 28, UFA at the end of the year and never had a 50 pt season.


Brown hasn't played in a full season with Ottawa, he was on pace for 50+ last 2 years while being very good defensively.
18 mai à 13 h 49
#9
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Quoting: wabit
Nope. He's just a sweetener and not a need for MN.

Go ahead and keep Brown if he's worth a 1st+. Maybe TDL prices, not offseason rental prices.


Guys like Coleman, Lehkonen, Copp, etc are not "sweeteners"

Quoting: jnowariak
Dude is 28, UFA at the end of the year and never had a 50 pt season.


The last 2 years, a global pandemic shortened the seasons. Brown was on pace for 50+ pts each season. This year, he got injured and it was the first time he was missing games in his NHL career. He was also on pace for 50+ pts

Quoting: jnowariak
OK, but is he tho?


Well, for people who have followed NHL trades for a long time (I have done that for 30+ years now), YES HE IS
18 mai à 13 h 50
#10
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Quoting: Cowling
Brown hasn't played in a full season with Ottawa, he was on pace for 50+ last 2 years while being very good defensively.


I’m sure he’s a good player, he puts up solid middle 6 numbers. But I would be hard pressed to find a team that values his talents at a 1st is all I’m trying to say.

I’m also not trying to litigate his value, rather check some hyperbole.
18 mai à 13 h 50
#11
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Quoting: Xspyrit
Guys like Coleman, Lehkonen, Copp, etc are not "sweeteners"


He is not in that category. What are we doing here?
18 mai à 14 h 1
#12
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Quoting: jnowariak
He is not in that category. What are we doing here?


Why not?
18 mai à 14 h 1
#13
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Quoting: jnowariak
He is not in that category. What are we doing here?


You mean Connor Brown is NOT in that category? lol this is based on what exactly?

He has outproduced every single one of them (except Copp recently), has been a Top-2 PK most used Forward in the whole league during the last 3 seasons, was 2nd in TkA last season. He also received Selke votes (17th)

87% of his production (0.62 PPG) has been on ES/PK in Ottawa, this is extremely VALUABLE.


This is just the case of a casual hockey fan who doesn't know much about a player from another team. I have seen that almost every day for a long time now. This is a routine conversation for me.
Cowling a aimé ceci.
18 mai à 14 h 11
#14
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Quoting: Xspyrit
You mean Connor Brown is NOT in that category? lol this is based on what exactly?

He has outproduced every single one of them (except Copp recently), has been a Top-2 PK most used Forward in the whole league during the last 3 seasons, was 2nd in TkA last season. He also received Selke votes (17th)

87% of his production (0.62 PPG) has been on ES/PK in Ottawa, this is extremely VALUABLE.


This is just the case of a casual hockey fan who doesn't know much about a player from another team. I have seen that almost every day for a long time now. This is a routine conversation for me.


Quoting: Cowling
Why not?


Brown is 28 and going to UFA, the other guys were 24 with team control when they moved for 1sts. Not to mention their on ice impacts, as measured by xGF%, we’re firmly in the above 50 where Brown is not.

All of those guys will get term and about 5 mil on their UFA deal. Would you give 5 mil over 6 years to Brown next year? If so, we disagree firmly on what he brings.
MNBassman a aimé ceci.
18 mai à 14 h 16
#15
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Quoting: jnowariak
Brown is 28 and going to UFA, the other guys were 24 with team control when they moved for 1sts. Not to mention their on ice impacts, as measured by xGF%, we’re firmly in the above 50 where Brown is not.

All of those guys will get term and about 5 mil on their UFA deal. Would you give 5 mil over 6 years to Brown next year? If so, we disagree firmly on what he brings.


You can't argue based of hypothetical futures that they will probably get 5 mill and not Brown. They're xGF% are higher because they are on better teams, Brown often starts in the defensive zone and gets tough matchups while being on a bottom 10 team all year.
Xspyrit a aimé ceci.
18 mai à 14 h 21
#16
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Quoting: jnowariak
Brown is 28 and going to UFA, the other guys were 24 with team control when they moved for 1sts. Not to mention their on ice impacts, as measured by xGF%, we’re firmly in the above 50 where Brown is not.

All of those guys will get term and about 5 mil on their UFA deal. Would you give 5 mil over 6 years to Brown next year? If so, we disagree firmly on what he brings.


Cowling's answer will be sufficient, saves me time thanks

Oh and please verify your facts when arguing with me lol

Coleman was 28 y/o
Lehkonen was 26 y/o
Copp was 27 y/o

Quoting: Cowling
You can't argue based of hypothetical futures that they will probably get 5 mill and not Brown. They're xGF% are higher because they are on better teams, Brown often starts in the defensive zone and gets tough matchups while being on a bottom 10 team all year.


Bottom-5* team
Cowling a aimé ceci.
18 mai à 14 h 22
#17
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Quoting: Xspyrit
You mean Connor Brown is NOT in that category? lol this is based on what exactly?

He has outproduced every single one of them (except Copp recently), has been a Top-2 PK most used Forward in the whole league during the last 3 seasons, was 2nd in TkA last season. He also received Selke votes (17th)

87% of his production (0.62 PPG) has been on ES/PK in Ottawa, this is extremely VALUABLE.


This is just the case of a casual hockey fan who doesn't know much about a player from another team. I have seen that almost every day for a long time now. This is a routine conversation for me.


I know who Brown is and what he does. He just doesn't add much of anything other than an improvement to a 3rd line wing for cheap in MN. He adds the same amount of 5v5 scoring as Greenway does, but is better defensively. Seriously, Brown has 10 more goals and the same amount of assists over the last 4 years (270ish games).

I could care less if he's part of a Fiala trade or not. Adding him just forces MN to make another move to ship out cap. I'm completely fine with gambling on Jost filling that same 3rd line wing spot for about the same cap hit.
jnowariak et MNBassman a aimé ceci.
18 mai à 14 h 22
#18
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Quoting: Cowling
You can't argue based of hypothetical futures that they will probably get 5 mill and not Brown. They're xGF% are higher because they are on better teams, Brown often starts in the defensive zone and gets tough matchups while being on a bottom 10 team all year.


No, lehkonen had a positive rate in MTL, Coleman one in NJD, and Copp (who I don’t see as a great comp here) in WPG. xGF% accounts for how well you’re able to “tilt” the ice, good defensive players that start in their zone either get the puck or keep the other team to bad chances. That’s measured.

And as for future deals, that is absolutely factored in. Coleman, Goodrow, Hagel, and Lehkonen got firsts because they were team controlled for 2 or more seasons when the trade was made. And let’s say Copp is a comparable, he didn’t receive a first as a UFA.
18 mai à 14 h 35
#19
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Quoting: wabit
I know who Brown is and what he does. He just doesn't add much of anything other than an improvement to a 3rd line wing for cheap in MN. He adds the same amount of 5v5 scoring as Greenway does, but is better defensively. Seriously, Brown has 10 more goals and the same amount of assists over the last 4 years (270ish games).

I could care less if he's part of a Fiala trade or not. Adding him just forces MN to make another move to ship out cap. I'm completely fine with gambling on Jost filling that same 3rd line wing spot for about the same cap hit.


Not sure why you're telling me that. You were not the one quoted here...
Cowling a aimé ceci.
18 mai à 19 h 26
#20
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Quoting: jnowariak
OK, but is he tho? Dude is 28, UFA at the end of the year and never had a 50 pt season.


Quoting: jnowariak
No, lehkonen had a positive rate in MTL, Coleman one in NJD, and Copp (who I don’t see as a great comp here) in WPG. xGF% accounts for how well you’re able to “tilt” the ice, good defensive players that start in their zone either get the puck or keep the other team to bad chances. That’s measured.

And as for future deals, that is absolutely factored in. Coleman, Goodrow, Hagel, and Lehkonen got firsts because they were team controlled for 2 or more seasons when the trade was made. And let’s say Copp is a comparable, he didn’t receive a first as a UFA.


Youre right, thats why they got 1sts+

Had CBrown been traded at the deadline last year, for a playoffs + another entire season, he would have been 1st+ as well.

A full season of CBrown to a contender expecting their pick to be in the mid-late 20s is worth a 1st, and renttion adds the "+"

Consider Coleman. He had 1 additional year left on his contract when he was traded. He was being paid 1.8M. (Same as CBrown in this scenario)
Cowling a aimé ceci.
19 mai à 12 h 40
#21
MNBassman
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Quoting: PLDGEY
CBrown 50% is worth 1st+

So it would be 7OA + CBrown 50% for

Fiala + MIN 1st?


That’s fine, because Fiala is easily worth two 1sts!
19 mai à 19 h 15
#22
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Quoting: MNBassman
That’s fine, because Fiala is easily worth two 1sts!


I agree, two mid-late 1sts
 
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