Get ready boys cause I damn near wrote a novel on this offseason plan. Sorry if it's a lot, but I find this stuff fun, so bear with me. This is what I would call a realistic offseason. Not what I would call my "dream" offseason. I'm making this based of off up to date reports on contract situations from Pens insiders I'm seeing on twitter as of 05/17/22, and based on me looking at Burke's, and more importantly Hextall's, history and management style.
First things first I think Geno comes back. He's already publicly expressed interest in coming back and said that he's "made enough money" and has said that he would take a pay cut to return (per Josh Yohe). I think you can argue his value all day. Some say he's worth 7.5 mil, they'll argue that the Russian bear was a point per game player at age 35 coming off of knee surgery, on pace for 40 goals over an 82 game season. That's a great player to some. However, some also think he's barely worth 4mil due to his lack of defensive game, injury concern, he's clearly slowing down speed wise, and his lackadaisical play especially on the PP. As I type this out I'm in the middle. I also say "ask me again tomorrow" cause my opinion on him changes every day since he's such a hot and cold player. Regardless. I think it gets done. 3x6.5 takes him to the end of Sid's deal. I mean he is a good player still, 42 points and 20 goals in 40 games is good. That's worth 6.5 million to me. I think Hextall can see that too. This way both him and Sid play out their contracts together. Early reports say they offered him a 3 year deal, I saw the Rossi report yesterday (05/16) that it was only 5mil offered and that Sid is "angry" and stuff but I don't buy that at all. Rossi throws out false reports 95% of the time and Poni jumps on any clickbait title he can. I do think the 3 year deal part is true but the 5mil AAV thing seems like crap to me. From what I can tell, most people in the community think that report is BS as well. 3x6.5 is the deal I think happens, it makes sense for everyone involved. Him and Sid go out together, and the Pens have an extra 3mil to work with based on the paycut from Geno's contract from last season.
I think Letang walks. Yes he had a career year offensively which some think is worth a major raise. I don't. You can't give a raise to a 35 year old, especially if you look at his defensive models. He struggled defensively compared to what he used to be and there's no doubt about it he made some VERY questionable turnovers this season. Yes. He was great offensively and he ate up minutes like nobodies business in the playoffs. He's still a top pairing dman in the NHL if you ask me. But the question isn't what he is, it's what he's worth. He's NOT worth more than 7mil, and he's definitely not worth more than what he reportedly is asking for which is 8+ million. I also think Hextall is only willing to give him 6.5 at most like the Geno deal. Hextall has always been a "I'm paying you for what you will be during your contract not what you currently are" type of contract negotiator. Which is good for the team, it just can be cutthroat at times too, especially with so much Letang nostalgia involved. Based on all of this, and on the reports that Letang is pretty dead set on getting a raise on his current 7.25mil deal. I just can't see a deal getting done. I personally would pay up to 7.75mil for him based on the extremely thin FA market for top pairing RHD. I say this despite me also thinking his actual value is no more than 7mil. I think he walks. There's just too much distance right now. I think the only way he stays is if HE budges. I don't think Hextall will budge very much.
If you let Letang walk, Josh Manson would be a solid replacement in FA. He'd pair really well alongside Matheson. I actually think they'd compliment each other's games perfectly like how Letang - Dumo did for so long. An offensive dman and a defensive dman. You could do a lot worse than Matheson, Manson, Pettersson, and Marino as your top 4 D. Although I do think that's far from an elite unit, it would be middle of the pack. I think this would be a decent replacement for Letang. Although as I said before, I'd pay up to keep Letang. The RHD market is VERY thin and I personally don't think Klingberg is good at all. Based on his reported asking price, you'd be better off just re-signing Letang for that price. But if you want a top 2 or top 4 RHD this year it's literally Klingberg, Letang, or Manson in terms UFAs. I can realistically see Manson being that guy the Pens would replace Letang with. He'd be the polar opposite of Letang which I'd actually welcome big time and I think he's a guy Brian Burke would push hard to get. He isn't scoring you 68 points but he's nowhere near as risky with the puck and he's marginally stronger defensively. He's just a quiet shutdown player. He's a low end top pairing guy or a high end second pairing guy. He's a very underrated skater too which is great for a 6'3 guy who can hit. I'm not saying he's Kris Letang, but defensively he's extremely close. You'd just lose out on that offensive production. You'd hope Matheson, Marino, and POJ (we'll get to him) would all have bigger years offensively to fill the offensive void Letang leaves. I also think Pettersson is underrated offensively. This defensive core would definitely be by committee, not star loaded. It would be a much quieter D core for the Pens. Which some would welcome big time. This D core would remind me of what the Blues did in 2020 when they lost Pietrangelo. They downgraded sure, but filled the void with Krug and used the money elsewhere. They've been fine ever since. I have them signing Manson to a 4x5.5 million dollar deal.
Speaking of the D core, I think they move on from Dumo. Not only was he bad this year, he was injured this year. Again. The big thing that makes me think he's gone is that for the first time ever we saw Sullivan put someone else with Letang, when both were fully healthy. I think the mood on Dumo has soured both from a coaching and management perspective. Enter the Cancuks. Jim Rutherford is ALWAYS horned up for former players of his. It makes sense too because he's the one who gave Dumo his contract, and for some reason (un-explainable to me) Rutherford and Allvin seem to hate Garland. They were heavily shopping him at the deadline last year and Hextall was in the mix before getting Rakell. Why not go for him again? I mean. If I'm the Cancuks personally, I'm saying no to this deal I constructed. But this is Jim Rutherford and Patrick Allvin we are talking about. They wanted a LHD Dman from the Pens at the deadline, and we all know Rutherford... When making this mock trade I realized I have no idea what the value would be in this trade. I think it really comes down to, how over-valued does JR perceive Dumoulin to be. Knowing Jim Rutherford. Very. As for Garland. He's a valueable top 6 guy. Plus his deal, 4 more years at 4.95 is pretty dang solid for a 26 year old who can put up 50-60pts most seasons.
While on the topic of Dmen. I think it's time POJ makes his NHL leap. He saw some NHL time 2 seasons ago and did so-so. He was very good at first, then slowed down considerably. He was young. He still is, but he's got 2 more years of AHL experience now, and it's not like he'd be asked to play top 4 minutes right out of the gate. Put him with a good vet like Ruhwedel and I think he'd be absolutely fine as an NHL mainstay. Who knows, maybe he can exceed expectations and become a top 4 guy right out of the gates similar to what Marino did his first season with the Penguins. I think at worst he's a serviceable NHL dman next year who can provide some bottom pairing offense and maybe even play PP2. Like I said before. This D core would be by committee, not elite, but top half of the league.
Moving onto other trades and the Zucker move I mocked is basically a cap relief move. Hextall was reportedly shopping him last year, and Seattle was considering taking him at the expansion draft before going with Tanev. I don't mind Zucker as a player. I actually thought he had a strong playoffs this year and looked fine in the regular season. I think if he could stay healthy he's a solid option. But boy. That's such a big if. At a certain point you need to stay healthy, and two straight seasons of under 20 points in a measly 40 games is not enough production, or playing time, for a guy making 5.5 million. I wouldn't hate if they kept him, he's a strong middle-6 winger who is unfortunately plagued by injuries. I really believe if he was healthy he could be a 50 point guy who also plays with an edge. I'd love to get that player for 5.5mil. I just don't think he'll ever reach that again, and at age 30, I think my prediction is going to be correct. I think because of all of that, they will deal him for picks and maybe a depth piece. I mocked the deal as just picks. Don't put too much stock in to the actually value here. I just guessed and went with a 2nd and 3rd. I honestly have no idea what his value would be. I just think he gets dealt is my point. As well, Hextall has never really shown an affinity for players with injury concerns. Which funny enough I think is another reason I think his mood has soured on Dumoulin.
Moving on to some depth signings and I'll start with Rodrigues. Erod proved enough this year despite his EXTREMELY hot first half vs EXTREMELY cold back half. He'll be wanted back as a bottom 6 scoring winger. The perk for Rodrigues is how flexible he is. He can play top 6 winger. He can play 3C. 4C. Bottom 6 winger. Hell if you're really injured (like we were last year) he even proved he can play top 6 center in a pinch. He's versatile as hell which I think is attractive to Sully, Hextall, and Burke. I think they value that over whatever his stat line might show you. He played very well with McGinn and Blueger in the playoffs so that could be a solid 4th line. To be honest looking at the roster I'd make that my 3rd line, then go Poulin - Carter - Kapanen on my 4th line, (we'll get to Poulin and Kapanen) but I don't think Sully sees Blueger as a better 3C than Carter. Which is mind-boggling. An easy 1x2.2 million dollar deal.
Okay this one is controversial but just read the whole thing. I think Kapanen returns. I wanna make this clear. I do NOT think he is worth the 2 year 2.2 million dollar deal I gave him. I think he's worth more like 1.3-1.6 million because he wasn't that good last year. That being said. He basically produced at the same level as Heinen yet Pens fans seem to adore Heinen and HATE Kapanen. I think maybe it's just the expectation we had for both of them before last year. So in terms of Kapanen next year I see tons of pens fans saying "oh yeah trade him he was a disappointment" like its the easiest thing ever. What these guys don't understand about RFA's is how Qualifying Offers and Arbitration works. If Kapanen was a UFA I would say he walks and it's easy decision to let him leave. However as an RFA he's stuck here. A qualifying offer for him would be a measly 1x840k deal because most of his 3.2 mil cap hit was given to him in bonuses. He'd obviously reject that and take it to arbitration immediately. This is an issue because in arbitration his MINIMUM deal would be a 1x2.72mil deal. No team wants that. No team is going to look at him and say "yeah we'd love to pay him 2.72 mil at minimum". Because of this. I think Hextall can make a deal with him in the low 2s. Say to him "hey, we don't wanna go to arbitration with you, so here's an opportunity for you to make 2.2million for 2 seasons instead of 2.72million for one". Yeah its an overpay, but that's the cost of doing business, unless of course you can find a team dumb enough to take him for his arbitration cost, which I doubt we will. It's what it is. Basically if you offer Kapanen anything below 2 years for 2mil he'll immediately decline and take it to arbitration where he can cash out for 2.72million at worst. I personally like Kapanen, despite that being an unpopular opinion, I think he had a strong playoffs and I believe he can be a 35-40 point, 20 goal guy, which for 2.2 mil, isn't that bad. I mean he didn't show that he can do that last year, but I just have a feeling if we re-signed him he could do that. He's one of those guys where he's always noticeable, just with literally ice cold production. He definitely looked a little floaty at times this year though, I'm not blind to that fact. Admittedly, I'm a sucker for guys with speed though.
Heinen is an easy return. Based on reports I've seen, I don't think the asking price is that harsh for him which is odd because he played very well last year for being a prove it player, and was a good option on Malkin's wing. I think Heinen is a bottom 6 scoring winger, however his chemistry on Malkin's wing was undeniable, and I think its enough for him to earn a top 6 spot out of camp. I don't think you're gonna win a cup with Danton Heinen as a top 6 player, but if he's clicking with his line and you can spread out your wealth elsewhere, it's not the worst. I would say though 2nd Line LW is definitely an area you'd like to upgrade at the deadline, similar to the Pens bringing in Rakell at last years deadline to play the right side. 1x1.5 million. Easy depth signing, with expectations for him to play an elevated role.
It's time for Poulin to crack the league. Personally, I think he either has a spot on your roster this season, or you dish him in a deal. Poulin + Heinen for an upgraded 2nd Line LW would be nice. I personally think he's NHL ready though. He looked very good in WBS last season in his first year as a pro, and I think his 6'2, 218 pound frame bodes well for cracking the NHL sooner than later. I am banking on this year being the year. I think pairing him on Carter's wing could be really good for his development. A great vet to mentor him in the bottom 6, as I don't think he's ready for a spot on the big boy lines with Sid or Geno just yet. Although you never know. He could come out of nowhere and be top 6 worthy player in year one like Guentzel was, I just wouldn't bank on it, he doesn't have that kind of upside in my opinion. To me at best he's a bigger Jason Zucker. Which is still a pretty damn good player, a 2nd line winger for sure. At worst he's what he is right now. A bottom 6 power forward. Time to see what he can become.
This isn't a signing or a trade or anything it's just a roster note I think Penguins fans need to hear. I just wanna throw this out here now. Drew O'Connor is not ready for a full time-role. Period. I do not understand the hard on Penguins fans have for him. In 22 NHL games last season he had 5 points and was essentially invisible. Radim Zohorna was more noticeable in his NHL games for Christ sake. Don't get me wrong. I could see him becoming a half decent bottom line guy at some point, and in all honesty in a perfect world I'd trade McGinn for the cap relief and start him out on my 4th line right out of camp. However I see some fans thinking he's going to be a big powerful scoring 3rd line winger in year one with potential to grow into a top 6 guy and I think that's just flat out ridiculous. He and Zohorna are the same player. Both are amazing depth pieces, but that's it. It'd be better to gamble on young wingers with higher upside, like Poulin, Puustinen, Legare, or even Nylander for that matter. I have DOC as a solid 13th Forward for the Pens next year. That's it. Maybe a fourth liner.
On the topic of depth. I think we big back big Brian Boyle at vet minimum to do exactly what he did this year. Be a 13th/14th forward. His stat-line was great for an extra forward last season, despite his over-usage by Sullivan in the playoffs. He's a good guy for the locker room too. A leader, a vet, a guy who's not expected to do anything other than sit in the press box until we have injuries.
A note about the roster on here. In the scratches, IR, and LTIR sections I put the players I would think are the first ones to call-up in case of injuries, poor play, etc. Couple of young forwards that could be shock you and show out. Riikola and Beaulieu are the definition of depth defenceman, and I think Domingue is fine as a 3rd goalie. Obviously we all saw what just happened in the playoffs. He went from cult hero to lamb in a week and a half. The reality is. An AHL goalie gave us a chance to win playoff games against the Vezina winner. I think that's absolutely fine as a 3rd goalie. If you're using your third goalie, all you can ask for at that point is a chance to win. We had a chance. I wouldn't hate an upgrade at the backup spot and letting Desmith walk but we just don't have the money for that.
Another note, I do think a dark horse candidate to make the team right out of camp as a bottom 6 player is Filip Hallander. Last year going into camp Hextall said Hallander is someone "they expect to compete for a full-time roster spot sooner rather than later". Well it's been another year of development for Hallander. Do I think he has what it takes? No I don't. However I don't know how he's been developing in all honesty, he had an okay enough year in WBS. If management is this high on him, maybe its for good reason. Just keep an eye out is all I'm saying.
Anyway. This is what i think could be a realistic offseason for the pens. Garland and Manson are just examples of guys they'd target to replace Rust and Letang, might not be those two guys EXACTLY, but just those type of guys.. Essentially I think a realistic blueprint for the Pens offseason is this:
1. Let Rust and Letang walk.
2. Replace them with solid but cheaper options (Garland, Manson, etc)
3. Resign your depth (Heinen, Erod, Kap, Boyle, etc.)
4. Try again with a worse roster than last year.
I feel like I need to elaborate on that 4th point. No offense to this roster. It isn't bad at all, but it's literally worse than last seasons roster, and I think that's the reality of the situation for the Penguins this year. We are probably not going to enter next season with a better roster than we had last season (when fully healthy of course). This new roster is playoff caliber sure. However you aren't winning a cup with this team unless guys like Garland, Heinen, Kapanen, Erod, and Carter exceed expectations greatly. Or maybe. Just maybe. Poulin comes out looking like a legit top 6 winger whos in the Calder conversation. Which I don't project happening. This roster isn't bad. Its just meh. It's a 12th-18th roster in the league. Playoff worthy but lower seed. I think this D Core actually would be fine. I think Manson defensively would be as good as Letang, just obviously we'd be missing that insane 68 point production from the back end. I'm a big believer in Matheson there. To me he's just such a damn good skater with the puck. He literally looks like a forward out there sometimes which in my opinions bodes well for an uptick in offensive production. If Letang leaves I could see Matheson's 31 points quickly becoming 45+ based on an assumed top line PP spot. Plus that elevates someone like possibly POJ to the 2nd PP unit. I don't know, this D core to me would actually be fine, despite losing a legit top line guy in Letang. I just feel like by committee this D core would work itself out. Similar to how the Pens D core performed in the 2017 cup run when Letang was out. Nobody on that unit was an elite top guy, but they all just pulled the rope together and it was fine. From a forwards perspective. This team is actually worse than last year unless as I said you get major contributions from certain guys. I think it's basic math. If you replace Rust and Zucker, with Garland and Poulin. Then you add another year of age to Carter, Geno, and Crosby. All while lets be honest probably getting a regression back to the mean from guys like Erod. You won't be better. I just can't see this forward core being better than last year unless Garland exceeds expectations, and Poulin shocks the world. Not to say I think Garland is a bad player. He's just not Bryan Rust. That's how I feel about this roster. We'd be worse than last year. Now I might sound all doom and gloom but I actually don't hate the idea of this team because of the cap flexibility I'll explain in the next paragraph.
The good news is about this roster is it at least sets you up for a competitive future BEFORE Crosby and Geno retire by adding draft picks and keeping you flexible with the cap, which history shows is something Hextall LOVES having. This roster is basically is a minor retool that positions our cap space properly for the future. That extends the Crosby/Malkin window a little bit longer. When you have Crosby on your team, you need to extend the window as long as you can. This roster does that. We get younger, and we get more cap flexible. That's all you can ask for with an aging core.
Looking at the 2023 offseason, having Jack Johnson's 1.9 mil buyout penalty be reduced to 900k is good because essentially that extra million can help go towards Jarry's pay raise that he'll need. Plus guys like Carter, McGinn, Kapanen, and Pettersson all get more "moveable" since their bigger contracts are one year smaller in term by then. As well, by 2024 when Guentzel's contract is up, you'd have Carter coming off the books, and his 3.25mil cap hit can basically be copy and pasted onto Jakes 6mil dollar cap hit and there is your raise for Jake right there. You'd still be pressed up against the cap with this roster sure, but the flexibility in the contracts being tradable would be better. I think this is an average at best offseason for the Pens for this upcoming season, but I think it would be a great offseason setting us up for the final 3 years of Sid/Geno. I just don't see Hextall being very aggressive other than maybe adding a Rust and Letang replacement after letting them walk. Obviously he'll make some depth signings for our bottom 6 I'm sure, but nothing major. This mock offseason I made just screams Ron Hextall to me. He doesn't usually overpay guys, doesn't usually trade draft picks, and I think he knows the importance of this offseason for the next 3-4 seasons. He knows that he's got about 3-4 more good years out of Sidney Crosby. I think he's looking at it like this. We aren't winning the cup right now. However, we do want to win a cup before Crosby/Geno retires. This offseason sets us up to be major players in 2ish years from now when all of our bigger contracts are either up, or easily moveable. Cap space is gold in today's NHL, and Hextall has always known it. If he made these moves, he'd be setting us up to have tons of cap space in 2-3 years on the final year of Sid/Geno's contracts. To me this offseason is kind of the calm before the storm. This offseason and maybe next years is calm. It's all about gathering value in prospects, gaining cap flexibility, while still fielding a relatively competitive team. Then boom. Three years from now we are setup perfectly to go ALL in for a final 1-3 years with Sid and G (assuming they're still playing strongly be then).
I just see this as a very realistic offseason for the Pens. It doesn't wow me. I personally wanna win every damn year. Like I say this is far from a dream to me. What do you think? Let me know what you think of the trades I made, the contracts, and overall how you would feel this team would do in 2022-2023 season. I personally would feel very meh. More importantly though. Let me know how you'd feel about the Penguins 2-4 year future outlook if we had this offseason. I'd feel pretty good about it.
Thanks for reading my damn near article on the Penguins. This was fun!
I cant see rodrigues taking that deal. Hes gonna want to cash in on a career year. As for the trades seattle easily declines and vancouver also drclines but that one is a lot closer.
u got that wrong sorry
canucks were looking for a RHD not a LHD *JOHN MARINO*
I think if a trade would happen it would be john marino and a 2nd or 3rd for garland
Isn;t Kapanen an RFA (with rights)? Theres no way he accepts less than he makes now. If Pens offer that, they'll go to arbitration and he'll get his 3.2mil with 10% raise, even after a bad year.
ERod will get a bigger raise than that, and Rakell gets more than that.
I think those 3 are under-offers and go elsewhere. But collectively you're probably only short 3.5-4mil (which takes away the depth in the above)
But really this is just marching out the same 21-22 team with a lesser letang, and everybody a year older. I'm not saying you tear it down, but you're expecting better results from the same team, and you;ve got Crosby, Malkin, Carter a yr older.
I cant see rodrigues taking that deal. Hes gonna want to cash in on a career year. As for the trades seattle easily declines and vancouver also drclines but that one is a lot closer.
Yeah I wrote in my novel of a description that the trades were mute. I don't blame you for not reading that beast of a description though. The value are mute points. Zucker gets dished is really the only point of the trade. I didn't really put much stock into the value. Make it a 7th for all I care lol.
I think Canucks SHOULD decline that deal but I also know how stupid Allvin and Rutherford are. Besides that trade isn't set in stone, you could easily elevate that 5th to a 4th or 3rd and all of the sudden the trade is accepted by them.
Canucks already have OEL and Hughes on the left[/quo
Quoting: Canucks123
u got that wrong sorry
canucks were looking for a RHD not a LHD *JOHN MARINO*
I think if a trade would happen it would be john marino and a 2nd or 3rd for garland
I know they were interested in Marino yes, but I also saw they were really close on Pettersson (LHD). From all the reports I saw, they were interested in top 4 dmen, both handedness. Although you're right, Marino was the big piece they wanted.
yea I think they were interested in Pettersson too but that's only if they move on from OEL in this offseason cause as of now as things are constructed he would be the bottom pair LHD
"Not only was he bad this year, he was injured this year" Yeah so why do the Canucks do that trade JR has said he wants players that are 26 and under on top of it fitting none of our needs is that Garland is the type of player they like there is no reason to this trade and i get you said JR likes to overpay for his old guys but so does Burke canucks counter with Schenn for Marino and a 1st
Isn;t Kapanen an RFA (with rights)? Theres no way he accepts less than he makes now. If Pens offer that, they'll go to arbitration and he'll get his 3.2mil with 10% raise, even after a bad year.
ERod will get a bigger raise than that, and Rakell gets more than that.
I think those 3 are under-offers and go elsewhere. But collectively you're probably only short 3.5-4mil (which takes away the depth in the above)
But really this is just marching out the same 21-22 team with a lesser letang, and everybody a year older. I'm not saying you tear it down, but you're expecting better results from the same team, and you;ve got Crosby, Malkin, Carter a yr older.
As far as I'm aware players can never received less than 85% of his previous salary IF he made more than 2.11mil the previous season (which Kap did) meaning for Kapanen it would be 2.72mil AT MINIMUM. Hence why I justified it that he'd sign a multi year 2.2 million dollar deal in favor of getting a 1 year potentially only 2.72 million dollar deal. In my head, he'd favor the term of a low 2s deal over the short term of the high 2s deal.
I'll be honest though I know arbitration has MANY different rules so I could be missing something. Maybe I'm mistaken, but are you saying he'd get 3.2mil + 10% at minimum? I don't get why he'd automatically get 3.2 plus a raise. I'm not saying he wouldn't potentially get that. Just that you're making it seem like he'd automatically get it? Or am I just reading into what you said wrong. Either way, if you're right. Exactly, the money you'd use on Kap goes towards the raises on Rak and Erod.
Although respectfully, I don't think Erod gets that kind of money. I understand he got 40 points but he was ice ice ice ice cold the second half of the season. I mean maybe a team throws money at him and if they do, good for him. I wouldn't keep him for over 2.5, he's an effective bottom 6 scorer who had an extremely hot but unsustainable first half playing an elevated role due to injuries.
As for Rak? Ehhh I dont know. Im seeing almost everyone peg him in at about 5x5. Maybe 5.5, I havent seen anyone say he'd get 6...
As for the whole "this is basically marching out the same lineup with a lesser Letang" comment. Yeah. That's the point. I wrote in the description that this team is literally worse than last season. The whole "expecting a better result" part that you wrote is wrong. I literally said I'd expect a worse result with this roster. However it sets them up for cap flexibility in a year or two from now which would offer them a chance to compete one last time.
Like I say. Ideal? Nah. My dream offseason? Nope. Realistic for Ron Hextall? Yup....
"Not only was he bad this year, he was injured this year" Yeah so why do the Canucks do that trade JR has said he wants players that are 26 and under on top of it fitting none of our needs is that Garland is the type of player they like there is no reason to this trade and i get you said JR likes to overpay for his old guys but so does Burke canucks counter with Schenn for Marino and a 1st
Well first off, you saying they like Garland is false. They've basically been actively shopping him since the start of last season which was hilarious to me because they just acquired him. As for the "need" aspect of it. JR has never shown to care for injury problems (like when he acquired Zucker FML), so Dumo's history is a mute point in this. I'm not naive though. As I said. I would not accept that trade if I'm the Nucks.
You could elevate those picks to 3 first for all I care. The trade isn't meant to be hyper realistic it's just swapped together. It's less about the value going across for the Nucks and Pens, more about the acquisition of Garland and dumping of Dumo from the Penguins point of view and what that achieves. Hell. I'll do you one better. Dump Dumo off in Buffalo. Then trade 2 2nd's to the Nucks for Garland. Same goal is achieved for the Pens. And your Canucks come out happier too.
I think you got too hung up on the trades themselves and less about the idea of the offseason for the Penguins, which to be fair, this thread is about them not the Nucks.
yea I think they were interested in Pettersson too but that's only if they move on from OEL in this offseason cause as of now as things are constructed he would be the bottom pair LHD
I just mentioned to another guy in this thread, it's less about the trades for the Nucks and Seattle. The values and players swapped are mute points. The points are the players acquired for the Pens. As I said to him. Cap dump dumo to Buffalo (who's actually interested in Dumo I've heard) and trade picks for Garland if really needed. Essentially I'm saying if you're the Pens. Get Garland to be your Rust replacement, shed the cap hit of Dumo for picks. As much as I ragged on Dumo he's still a decent player he's not worth nothing. You could get picks for him to a team that wants him.
I understand obviously that trades are a two way street and both teams need to benefit too though. I was just slapping the trades together for the sake of moving the players in and out for the Pens you know?
Well first off, you saying they like Garland is false. They've basically been actively shopping him since the start of last season which was hilarious to me because they just acquired him. As for the "need" aspect of it. JR has never shown to care for injury problems (like when he acquired Zucker FML), so Dumo's history is a mute point in this. I'm not naive though. As I said. I would not accept that trade if I'm the Nucks.
You could elevate those picks to 3 first for all I care. The trade isn't meant to be hyper realistic it's just swapped together. It's less about the value going across for the Nucks and Pens, more about the acquisition of Garland and dumping of Dumo from the Penguins point of view and what that achieves. Hell. I'll do you one better. Dump Dumo off in Buffalo. Then trade 2 2nd's to the Nucks for Garland. Same goal is achieved for the Pens. And your Canucks come out happier too.
I think you got too hung up on the trades themselves and less about the idea of the offseason for the Penguins, which to be fair, this thread is about them not the Nucks.
They haven't been shopping him they gotten calls but aren't shopping them "needs" while yeah Doumlin doesn't fit our needs as LHD our LHD is set for sometime With Hughes - OEL - Dermott/Rathbone I get you say wouldn't accepted if you were the Canucks but it's kinda pointless just to be like our gm is great yours is dumb here is a unrealistic trade I get it's about a pens offseason but none of this works for the other teams which makes this thread kinda pointless
I cant see rodrigues taking that deal. Hes gonna want to cash in on a career year. As for the trades seattle easily declines and vancouver also drclines but that one is a lot closer.
Elevate the 5th to a 4th and then maybe Nucks take it? Or even a third? That one is really all dependent on what they decide to do with OEL. If they can move on from OEL it makes sense for them.
As for seattle. I said in the description, the picks are just meh. I had no idea what to throw in as value so I just kinda chucked some picks on there and yeah. Make the picks a 3rd and 4th for all I care. Basically just if you're Hextall. Trade Zucker for a pick or picks, and get the most value possible for him. Doesn't really matter where you send him or for what, just get the highest value picks you can and move one from the salary.
They haven't been shopping him they gotten calls but aren't shopping them "needs" while yeah Doumlin doesn't fit our needs as LHD our LHD is set for sometime With Hughes - OEL - Dermott/Rathbone I get you say wouldn't accepted if you were the Canucks but it's kinda pointless just to be like our gm is great yours is dumb here is a unrealistic trade I get it's about a pens offseason but none of this works for the other teams which makes this thread kinda pointless
I thought you guys were moving on from OEL to be fair. That opens up a LHD spot.
As for the raggin on me about the "your gm sucks thing" well, your GM does suck. He just flat out does. So does Jim Rutherford. Both of them are very bad. Sorry if it's not what you wanna hear but its not unrealistic to see GMs make awful trades and to project awful trades. Remember when Ken Holland GAVE UP ASSETS to get Duncan Keith? Remember when Chiarelli traded Hall one for one? I'll even give you an example that's closer to home for you. Remember when Benning gave up essentially Dylan Guenther for Conor Garland? (I know there was OEL and all of that dead cap space involved but lets be real OEL is essentially dead cap space himself).
I'm just saying. **** trades happen. Bad GMs give up value ALL the time in trades, and as I'd know being a Pens guy. Rutherford is notorious for giving up value. Allvin got pretty bad value for Tyler Motte so. Is he really that great? I mean that's yet to be seen it's still early for him.
I thought you guys were moving on from OEL to be fair. That opens up a LHD spot.
As for the raggin on me about the "your gm sucks thing" well, your GM does suck. He just flat out does. So does Jim Rutherford. Both of them are very bad. Sorry if it's not what you wanna hear but its not unrealistic to see GMs make awful trades and to project awful trades. Remember when Ken Holland GAVE UP ASSETS to get Duncan Keith? Remember when Chiarelli traded Hall one for one? I'll even give you an example that's closer to home for you. Remember when Benning gave up essentially Dylan Guenther for Conor Garland? (I know there was OEL and all of that dead cap space involved but lets be real OEL is essentially dead cap space himself).
I'm just saying. **** trades happen. Bad GMs give up value ALL the time in trades, and as I'd know being a Pens guy. Rutherford is notorious for giving up value. Allvin got pretty bad value for Tyler Motte so. Is he really that great? I mean that's yet to be seen it's still early for him.
OEL has been fine this year wouldn't call him dead cap a pretty cap? no. But not dead cap either, as terms of Alvin and JR being bad, is false they have been fine Motte for a 4th was market it's the same as Appeleton who is a better player, they were able to dump Hamonic while getting positive value back, JR has won everywhere he has been so he can't be that bad of a gm, JR hasn't been "notorious" to give up value for ****, has lose some trades sure has he won some trades aboueslty, every teams gm will lose a trade and that's a fact, JR has been saying the right things.
Elevate the 5th to a 4th and then maybe Nucks take it? Or even a third? That one is really all dependent on what they decide to do with OEL. If they can move on from OEL it makes sense for them.
As for seattle. I said in the description, the picks are just meh. I had no idea what to throw in as value so I just kinda chucked some picks on there and yeah. Make the picks a 3rd and 4th for all I care. Basically just if you're Hextall. Trade Zucker for a pick or picks, and get the most value possible for him. Doesn't really matter where you send him or for what, just get the highest value picks you can and move one from the salary.
Thats the thing though. Dumo has had a rough season and idk if a 2nd or so makes up the value to garland, but wth do i know? As for zucker i dont see a way he gets moved without attaching an asset to him.
u got that wrong sorry
canucks were looking for a RHD not a LHD *JOHN MARINO*
I think if a trade would happen it would be john marino and a 2nd or 3rd for garland
Quoting: Canucks123
Canucks already have OEL and Hughes on the left
The thing is there was reports of Canucks having literal interest in trading for Marcus Pettersson at the deadline. And Dermott is a guy that can play on both LD/RD. But honestly I think Canucks already have a RHD defencemen for Hughes. Luke Schenn looked pretty nice for Vancouver this season and seemed to have been getting more comfortable each game playing with Hughes. But either way I don’t think Canucks should do anything to add to the blue line down the left side. The right side maybe. If the deal is right then sure. Because I’m starting to really like this Jack Rathbone guy. Jett Woo I feel like is never talked about and has a lot more time to develop in to the defencemen Canucks needs. Tyler Myers is decent but I’m just not sure just how much Canucks would be willing to retain salary. Obviously if the deal is right then sure.
I think a player that can possibly make the team next season would be Jordy Bellerive. Dude is scrappy as hell and actually puts up good fights in the AHL. He could probably even be a decent producer as well. I feel like Kasper Bjorkvist could end up as an extra on the team as he’s younger and can possibly crack the line up. He doesn’t have the best potential but I feel maybe he can develop into a solid defensive type of forward that could put up points here and there. I’d be hoping for maybe a more offensive ZAR. Hallander and Poulin are players within the past few months have seemed to find some footing and started putting up some production. If that’s to continue I don’t see how they don’t see some NHL time next season. O’Connor I was sort of thinking the same thing for him. I think maybe he should get more AHL time to get something going on. He showed some flashes of what he can do but other than that he wasn’t entirely ready to just start playing a big role right away obviously. I think Nylander could surely make the line up as well. It just seems like the time for Nylander to finally prove himself. The pros of them making the team would mean saving cap space. The cons would be losing some players but it could end up being worth it.
Thats the thing though. Dumo has had a rough season and idk if a 2nd or so makes up the value to garland, but wth do i know? As for zucker i dont see a way he gets moved without attaching an asset to him.
I think there is a small handful of teams that still see the value in Zucker. I mean. Most Pens fans see the value in him, we just all know we don't have the cap situation to keep him. I honestly think a team with tons of cap would be very willing to take a flier on Zuck seeing as he can be well worth his money IF healthy. Some teams care a ton about injury history. Some teams do not care at all about health concerns. I think a team with the latter mindset would see value.
As for Dumo. I've heard Buffalo is really interested in him. Even if that Canucks trade becomes a 3 way deal (or two separate deals) where the Sabres give up a pick or two for Dumo, and then the pens use those picks, plus one or two of their own, maybe a prospect too (Legare?) to get Garland. Either way, I could see Garland coming to Pitt. I wouldn't hate it. He's solid.
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