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2021-22 NHL Off-season Discussion Thread - #1

17 mai à 17 h 29
#976
stand with naz
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this sweater is friedman's abbreviations but so much worse lmao
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17 mai à 17 h 31
#977
Josies on vacation
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Quoting: Zuki9797



this sweater is friedman's abbreviations but so much worse lmao


Im just not feeling it. Like I get the idea but I feel they could have done better
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17 mai à 17 h 32
#978
Ovchinnikov 137
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Quoting: SevenLeg
Leafs never should've gotten rid of Verhaeghe in the 1st place


And that goes for the NYI and TBL too. If anyone could have predicted this 😂

2013: Drafted 82nd by TOR.
13/14: OHL improvement.
14/15: OHL stagnant.
15/16: One of five dudes Lou traded for Grabner (who lead up to Matthews with all of his missed breakaways). AHL/ECHL.
16/17: AHL guy, ECHL god.
NYI trades him for goalie depth.
17/18: AHL playmaker.
18/19: AHL beast.
19/20: NHL guy.
20/21: NHL beast.
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17 mai à 17 h 33
#979
KFTW
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Bunting-Matthews-Marner
Marchand-Tavares-Kase
Engvall/Mikheyev-Kampf-Nylander
Simmonds-Acciari-Spezza
Clifford

Rielly-Brodie
Muzzin-Liljgren
Sandin-Lyubushkin

3-4 mill goalie
Kallgren


How can they make a roster that looks like this
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17 mai à 17 h 39
#980
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Quoting: aadoyle
Here is the thing what guarantee would we have had McCann would have been good in Toronto. Might have ended up being like Nick Ritchie and struggled or he would have been with the duo and scored 40 goals. Who knows.

Kerfoot yes didnt have the goals but still contributed enough to where the move was fine. Holl despite the criticism also did his job when needed. If Dubas would have known there would be a dropoff of course he would have protected McCann but we have seen what Holl when he is in the zone can do. Make strong plays and contribute well to the PK.

Also McCann did get top 6 with Malkin and Kapenan in Pittsburgh so he wasnt always on their 3rd line but I see the argument.

In general McCann to me would have been a pure rental and would be most likely on his way out via trade this summer as 5mill would have been pricey

Unlike Ritchie, McCann is actually good at hockey. That’s why he would have succeeded in Toronto lol. His underlying numbers have been great for years, he had a mini-breakout last season, and was primed for a bigger year this year regardless of where he played. If he’d been in Toronto he probably would have done better than Seattle, even in a 2nd line role, because there was no talent to work with in Seattle and he still scored like 27 goals. And 5mil for a 2C that can push 30 goals is fine. And even if it was a 1 year thing and you were forced to trade him this summer, you’d still get very good value back for him (you’d probably recover a 1st round pick, or maybe bring in a RD that’s better than Holl, because McCann’s trade value is higher than Holl’s by virtue of being a better player, and top 6 centres are more coveted than middling RD).

Holl’s an okay defensive 3rd pair guy. He was always carried by Muzzin. It’s not a coincidence that when their chemistry fell apart, he was no longer considered that good. He was always playing above his level, and honestly it’s not difficult to find guys similar to him on the waiver wire, or for cheap via trade (see: Lyubushkin). He’s not a guy you should be coveting and protecting over a top 6 forward.

At the end of the day, the strong likelihood of McCann succeeding in Toronto was always the better option than protecting the mediocre Holl and praying that your defense would be good enough. It might have forced Dubas to make a move to bring in another D (prior to Giordano and Lyubushkin), but like, that’s what he’s paid to do. And McCann is simply better than Kerfoot. Again, there’s really no defending that decision and I’m not sure why you’re trying to. Dubas makes plenty of good decisions, this was just not one of them.
17 mai à 17 h 42
#981
Josies on vacation
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Modifié 17 mai à 18 h 2
Quoting: csick
Bunting-Matthews-Marner
Marchand-Tavares-Kase
Engvall/Mikheyev-Kampf-Nylander
Simmonds-Acciari-Spezza
Clifford

Rielly-Brodie
Muzzin-Liljgren
Sandin-Lyubushkin

3-4 mill goalie
Kallgren


How can they make a roster that looks like this


I like I like

but

I feel the buyout market and non-qualified market is gonna be very interesting for teams wanting cheap guys who could make an impact

Kind of like how Toronto got Kase or Kampf and Pittsburgh got Heinen

Depending on who doesnt get qualified or bought-out Toronto could walk away with a few good pieces out of free agency.

Like for instance if Monahan gets bought-out would be a nice 3c Add

If Wood doesnt get a QO another nice piece

For now its a wait and see game
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17 mai à 18 h 1
#982
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Quoting: Db1899
The Islanders defense went from worst to best because of the personnel and Mitch Korn working his magic with the goaltenders.

Isles went from this top 4 in 17-18

Leddy-Boychuk
Pelech-Aho

to

Pelech-Pulock
Toews - Mayfield

in trotz 1st year


Seems pretty random to me that by adding two D-men from AHL and Lehner who struggled in BUF and OTT would lead them to let 100 goals less in one year.

Trotz definitely had some impact on it. After all he is recognized as one of the greatest defensive coaches there is.

Individually speaking these D-men are great, and I've never said they were. But I'm still sure that playing under top level coach's defensive system helped them to reach the level they are in.

You're just about the only user who is very critical of Trotz here, despite all the success he brought for Isles. I can understand criticizing his choices in regards of offense and especially the lines he sometimes had, which ultimately likely lead to him getting fired.
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17 mai à 18 h 31
#983
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Quoting: Zuki9797



this sweater is friedman's abbreviations but so much worse lmao


Lmao, Owa, BST, Friedman really does this to annoy us at this point
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17 mai à 18 h 41
#984
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Quoting: MatthewsFan
And that goes for the NYI and TBL too. If anyone could have predicted this 😂

2013: Drafted 82nd by TOR.
13/14: OHL improvement.
14/15: OHL stagnant.
15/16: One of five dudes Lou traded for Grabner (who lead up to Matthews with all of his missed breakaways). AHL/ECHL.
16/17: AHL guy, ECHL god.
NYI trades him for goalie depth.
17/18: AHL playmaker.
18/19: AHL beast.
19/20: NHL guy.
20/21: NHL beast.


Imagine the Leafs right now with Marchment and Verhaeghe
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17 mai à 18 h 47
#985
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Quoting: justaBoss
Seems pretty random to me that by adding two D-men from AHL and Lehner who struggled in BUF and OTT would lead them to let 100 goals less in one year.

Trotz definitely had some impact on it. After all he is recognized as one of the greatest defensive coaches there is.

Individually speaking these D-men are great, and I've never said they were. But I'm still sure that playing under top level coach's defensive system helped them to reach the level they are in.

You're just about the only user who is very critical of Trotz here, despite all the success he brought for Isles. I can understand criticizing his choices in regards of offense and especially the lines he sometimes had, which ultimately likely lead to him getting fired.


They added only 1 defenseman from the AHL, who was their top prospect at the time. Toews would have been in the NHL the year prior but he suffered a shoulder injury that ended his season.

Trotz had an impact on the team overall , (not a big one) I’m not disputing that. But he had a ton of help. He was gifted Toews, Pelech, and Pulock. My point is that he had no effect on their trajectory.

Mitch Korn is widely regarded as a goalie guru who can turn average goaltenders into studs. You never here about him though, Trotz gets all the credit. Trotz brought structure and his best move was recognizing Brock Nelson is a top 6 caliber center.

I’m arguing that he Didn’t play a big role in the isles success, they won in spite of him. Do you think the isles would have made it to the ECF two years in a row with Trotz as head coach and a top 4 of Leddy-Boychuk, Pelech-Aho?
17 mai à 18 h 55
#986
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Quoting: Db1899
They added only 1 defenseman from the AHL, who was their top prospect at the time. Toews would have been in the NHL the year prior but he suffered a shoulder injury that ended his season.

Trotz had an impact on the team overall , (not a big one) I’m not disputing that. But he had a ton of help. He was gifted Toews, Pelech, and Pulock. My point is that he had no effect on their trajectory.

Mitch Korn is widely regarded as a goalie guru who can turn average goaltenders into studs. You never here about him though, Trotz gets all the credit. Trotz brought structure and his best move was recognizing Brock Nelson is a top 6 caliber center.

I’m arguing that he Didn’t play a big role in the isles success, they won in spite of him. Do you think the isles would have made it to the ECF two years in a row with Trotz as head coach and a top 4 of Leddy-Boychuk, Pelech-Aho?


No, because imo he was one of the reasons that lead to the development of Pulock, Pelech and Toews (and Dobson after that). And naturally they are better than most of the assets you mentioned. Boychuk was already on the decline, Aho was a placeholder. Leddy was the only one they perceived to be an actual top4 D, and given Trotz preferred experienced assets he or Lamoriello decided to hold over him over Toews, which admittedly was a huge mistake.

But honestly Isles was trash for so long until he came in I just don't have reasons to believe he didn't have a major impact. He turned WSH to a contender as well and Ovechkin a team player as said in the article/tweet you put there earlier.
17 mai à 19 h 17
#987
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Quoting: SevenLeg
Imagine the Leafs right now with Marchment and Verhaeghe


Honestly I know they weren’t what they are today about I think it was 2020 or 2019 where there whole roster was just mid six forwards
17 mai à 19 h 37
#988
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Quoting: justaBoss
No, because imo he was one of the reasons that lead to the development of Pulock, Pelech and Toews (and Dobson after that). And naturally they are better than most of the assets you mentioned. Boychuk was already on the decline, Aho was a placeholder. Leddy was the only one they perceived to be an actual top4 D, and given Trotz preferred experienced assets he or Lamoriello decided to hold over him over Toews, which admittedly was a huge mistake.

But honestly Isles was trash for so long until he came in I just don't have reasons to believe he didn't have a major impact. He turned WSH to a contender as well and Ovechkin a team player as said in the article/tweet you put there earlier.


Pulock and Pelech broke out before Trotz became HC and I don't see how you can credit Trotz for Dobson's development when his breakout only occurred because of Pulock's injury. Do you credit Bowness for Heiskanen having the best season of his career this year?

I could understand If Pelech and Pulock were underwhelming before Trotz joined the isles and you want to give him credit, but that's not the case - and Nick Leddy regressed in Trotz 1st year. If Trotz had as big of an impact like you say, wouldn't he at least be able to make Leddy have an average defensive impact? Leddy was a replacement level defenseman all 3 years under Trotz.

The isles were trash because they hired the worst coaches and had a country club atmosphere- the top players still had solid impacts (Pelech, Pulock, Barzal, Tavares , Eberle,) it was the depth that suffered. Great players are able to succeed under any system/coach.
17 mai à 19 h 39
#989
Ban Petry trades
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Quoting: Bobcat205
Lowry - Scheifele - Wheeler
Connor - Stastny - Harkins
Ehlers - Dubois - Comeau
Svechnikov - Toninato - Sanford

Nightmares. Personified.


6gjgeu.jpg
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17 mai à 19 h 42
#990
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Fold the franchise, Arizona's a decent market but there's a limit to how much idiocy i can defend
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17 mai à 19 h 56
#991
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Quoting: Db1899
Pulock and Pelech broke out before Trotz became HC and I don't see how you can credit Trotz for Dobson's development when his breakout only occurred because of Pulock's injury. Do you credit Bowness for Heiskanen having the best season of his career this year?

I could understand If Pelech and Pulock were underwhelming before Trotz joined the isles and you want to give him credit, but that's not the case - and Nick Leddy regressed in Trotz 1st year. If Trotz had as big of an impact like you say, wouldn't he at least be able to make Leddy have an average defensive impact? Leddy was a replacement level defenseman all 3 years under Trotz.

The isles were trash because they hired the worst coaches and had a country club atmosphere- the top players still had solid impacts (Pelech, Pulock, Barzal, Tavares , Eberle,) it was the depth that suffered. Great players are able to succeed under any system/coach.


Broke out before is a bit rich, they played 2nd pair minutes in Isles in 2017-18 and those minutes were increased when Trotz joined in. They weren't underwhelming but I'd argue they got better. Was it just natural development or Trotz's input in their game? I'm keen to say both.

Dobson's career trajectory differs a bit from Pulock, Pelech and Toews as they all had to grind their way to NHL from minors. Dobson got straight in. And yes I would say it's partly because he got into a ready package as a team, jumping in to the Isles who challenged Tampa the most of all teams past two years.

Heiskanen's "best season of his career" was not even close to his ceiling so I don't think there's much credit to give to Bowness. Hell, I'd argue Dobson was better than Heiskanen this regular season. Plus unlike NYI with Trotz, DAL did not make overall a jump in level as a team at any point after Montgomery got sacked and Bowness got hired. This year was a struggle for the Isles as a team, and I can't exactly say DAL was good either.

With Lane Lambert regime we will see how much Isles' success were dependent on Trotz, who I believe is a great coach. If they upgrade, I have to accept your points. If they struggle, you're forced to eat crow in terms of Trotz's importance towards Isles, and especially their defense.
17 mai à 20 h 2
#992
Josies on vacation
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Quoting: A_Habs_fan




Fold the franchise, Arizona's a decent market but there's a limit to how much idiocy i can defend


NHL reps, players, whoever you want:

Bettman Arizona is a tire fire and were gonna lose a lot of money having them play in ASU which will piss off the bigger teams. Its time to move them to ____________ (pick whoever you want)

Bettman:

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17 mai à 20 h 5
#993
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Quoting: A_Habs_fan




Fold the franchise, Arizona's a decent market but there's a limit to how much idiocy i can defend


Oh my f*cking lord.

Just how ridiculous this sh*t can even get at this point.
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17 mai à 20 h 13
#994
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Quoting: justaBoss
Broke out before is a bit rich, they played 2nd pair minutes in Isles in 2017-18 and those minutes were increased when Trotz joined in. They weren't underwhelming but I'd argue they got better. Was it just natural development or Trotz's input in their game? I'm keen to say both.

Dobson's career trajectory differs a bit from Pulock, Pelech and Toews as they all had to grind their way to NHL from minors. Dobson got straight in. And yes I would say it's partly because he got into a ready package as a team, jumping in to the Isles who challenged Tampa the most of all teams past two years.

Heiskanen's "best season of his career" was not even close to his ceiling so I don't think there's much credit to give to Bowness. Hell, I'd argue Dobson was better than Heiskanen this regular season. Plus unlike NYI with Trotz, DAL did not make overall a jump in level as a team at any point after Montgomery got sacked and Bowness got hired. This year was a struggle for the Isles as a team, and I can't exactly say DAL was good either.

With Lane Lambert regime we will see how much Isles' success were dependent on Trotz, who I believe is a great coach. If they upgrade, I have to accept your points. If they struggle, you're forced to eat crow in terms of Trotz's importance towards Isles, and especially their defense.


Pulock's goals per 60 and points per 60 min were similar to the top defenseman in the league - at 23 years old that is breaking out. He was a beast at even strength and on the PP. The only difference is under Trotz they got more ice time, which was deserved. They were entering their primes, which Is why I sad Trotz was riding the aging curves of his defenseman. He fell into a great situation, he's obviously a defensive minded coach and the isles had 3 top pair two way defenseman waiting for him.

If Heiskanen was on a team with average finishing ability, he'd finish top 3 in Norris votes. He was better than Dobson this season and he was arguably the best two way defensman in the league. If you want to give Trotz credit for NYI defenseman, then its only fair to credit Bowness lol

I don't think the Isles make the playoffs next season, Lee, Pageau, and Nelson are exiting their primes. Like I said last offseason, losing Eberle was going to be a major blow to Barzal and the team, which ended up happening. I will measure Lamberts success on how much the young guys improve.
17 mai à 20 h 26
#995
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Quoting: Zuki9797



this sweater is friedman's abbreviations but so much worse lmao


“CNAH” ?

K
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17 mai à 20 h 37
#996
Josies on vacation
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Quoting: SevenLeg
Imagine the Leafs right now with Marchment and Verhaeghe


Like honestly the best era for Toronto forward depth wise that Lou wasted was 2017-2018

Back then our lines were

JVR-Bozak-Marner
Marleau-Kadri-Brown
Hyman-Matthews-Nylander
Martin-Moore-Komarov

With Kapenan and Johnsson beginning to spread their wings and were on the verge of graduation

Goaltending tandem also good Anderson/McElhinney

Dcore sucked though so that was the dumb trade off and held us back.

As it was

Rielly-Hainsey
Gardiner-Zaitsev
Carrick-Polak

Like if Lou had built a better Dcore back then man would they have gone far. But he didnt do anything at the TDL
17 mai à 20 h 41
#997
worst poster
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Quoting: A_Habs_fan




Fold the franchise, Arizona's a decent market but there's a limit to how much idiocy i can defend

Is this good? Doesn't sound very good.
17 mai à 20 h 42
#998
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Quoting: mondo



Is this good?


No, this means the center ice logo will be ASU's and that whoever pays ASU for ads will have free exposure on NHL games
17 mai à 21 h 6
#999
Gaudreau to NJ
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Breaking News: The contract of Nikita Okhotnik has been terminated by the Devils
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17 mai à 21 h 7
#1000
Gaudreau to NJ
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Quoting: A_Habs_fan




Fold the franchise, Arizona's a decent market but there's a limit to how much idiocy i can defend


Could be worse

They could be playing in an arena that has less than 5000 seats
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