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(OTT/VAN) - 3rd for Hamonic

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20 mars à 16 h 13
#26
cya in another 3mo
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Why? Is Dorion willingly looking for another Zaitsev? Just doesn't make sense to pay significant draft stock for a guy like Hamonic unless you're trying to compete (and don't know what value is), so this has to be the prelude to an active offseason.
20 mars à 16 h 20
#27
sensonfire
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Modifié 20 mars à 16 h 31
I wanted to let everything sink in and read about Hamonic as well as defencemen that went for 3rd round picks recently ...

Before making any judgements ...



And I'm not impressed.

Here's my sort of brief explanation.



1. Hamonic was currently struggling to stay on the Canucks roster and was constantly sent down to Abbotsford in the AHL.



2. When Hamonic had a NMC in 2020-2021 and was in need of an extension, he preferred to stay in Western Canada.

Last time I looked at a map of Canada, Ottawa was in Eastern Canada.

So, I don't think Hamonic wants to stay in Ottawa after next season.



3. This is a small list of defensemen that were traded for 3rd round picks recently and that are all better than Hamonic:

Nate Schmidt
Mike Reilly
Nikita Zadorov
Brandon Montour
Dylan DeMelo


4. Last October, he was placed on waivers and he cleared waivers.

Ottawa refused to claim him.

That should have eliminated his trade value for the season.



5. I am astonished at how Pierre Dorion/Pierre McGuire can think ...

that a player's trade value can go from being worth nothing to being worth a 3rd round pick in just 5 months.

How do they explain that??



6. Why couldn't Dorion/McGuire just acquire Hamonic for future considerations?

The 'future considerations' being that Hamonic would eventually get vaccinated against COVID-19 before joining the team.

It's the reason why Hamonic was placed on waivers and suspended without pay in the first place.



I am a fan of the Ottawa Senators.

I want them to win the Stanley Cup someday.

But I am also a fan of "telling it like it is" and for making good trades.



I voted for the Vancouver Canucks.
20 mars à 16 h 37
#28
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Team has so much potential but keep making horrible moves
20 mars à 16 h 40
#29
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YOU'LL ALL BE EATING YOUR WORDS WHEN THE SENS BEAT TAMPA IN ROUND 1 THIS YEAR !!!!
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20 mars à 16 h 46
#30
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What makes this funnier is that I was texting a friend about how this made no sense for Ottawa as it is, but even less when it's likely Dermott moves for similar value. I mean why not take a flier on a younger D man for half the money and hope for some upside. Then Vancouver reveals the master stroke of swapping Hamonic for Dermott at essentially no net cost, while also saving $1.5M on the cap next year.

It kind of reminds me of the deal where San Jose flipped Hoffman back to the east. Vancouver just made it very obvious how bad this deal was for Ottawa within minutes.
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20 mars à 16 h 55
#31
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Why didn't you just take Dermott directly?

You're rebuilding .....
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20 mars à 17 h 0
#32
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The crap posted above about Hamonic clearing waivers is missing any kind of context. He wasnt waived because of poor play- or salary- it was because they werent sure if he was going to even play at all- and had missed training camp. There have been zero reports about Hamonic not being vaxxed- its because of his immune compromised daughter, there is no evidence of him being a antivaxx nutjob.

He has missed a lot of time due to injury, but has been okay once the rust wore off. I dont know where anyone is getting the info that Myers was offered for nothing, the fact is despite his overpay- Myers has been the better dman than Hamonic and the Canucks needed him despite his salary. the 3rd rounder is fair value for a healthy Hamonic- though Im surprised he went back east....

but I dont think either team is done, this could mean further movement from Ottawas defense roster- or that Canucks have other moves that involve another RD coming in either now or in the offseason.
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20 mars à 17 h 6
#33
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Myers free > Hamonic for a 3rd
20 mars à 17 h 19
#34
sensonfire
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Quoting: rollie1967
The crap posted above about Hamonic clearing waivers is missing any kind of context. He wasnt waived because of poor play- or salary- it was because they werent sure if he was going to even play at all- and had missed training camp. There have been zero reports about Hamonic not being vaxxed- its because of his immune compromised daughter, there is no evidence of him being a antivaxx nutjob.

He has missed a lot of time due to injury, but has been okay once the rust wore off. I dont know where anyone is getting the info that Myers was offered for nothing, the fact is despite his overpay- Myers has been the better dman than Hamonic and the Canucks needed him despite his salary. the 3rd rounder is fair value for a healthy Hamonic- though Im surprised he went back east....

but I dont think either team is done, this could mean further movement from Ottawas defense roster- or that Canucks have other moves that involve another RD coming in either now or in the offseason.


Next time, do some research before calling what someone else wrote "crap" and then saying "there have been zero reports".

It will go a long way for you.



https://www.cbc.ca/sports/hockey/nhl/nhl-vancouver-canucks-travis-hamonic-will-be-double-vaccinated-coach-1.6233559

https://theprovince.com/sports/hockey/nhl/vancouver-canucks/travis-hamonics-vaccination-status-sends-him-back-to-abbotsford

https://vancouverhockeynow.com/2021/11/18/nhl-vancouver-canucks-travis-green-hamonic-jim-benning-vaccination/



I never said he was waived because of "poor play" or "salary".

I never said he was a "antivaxx nut job".

Before finally getting vaccinated, he would have taken his daughter into consideration.



Please try again.
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20 mars à 17 h 26
#35
WentWughes
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This trade makes 0 sense
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20 mars à 17 h 45
#36
Believe in Bystedt
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what a bad ****ing trade for ottawa. wtf.
20 mars à 17 h 47
#37
Retired V2 V3 GM
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Big win for Vancouver! Makes no sense for Ottawa
20 mars à 18 h 3
#38
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Come back in one year time, to see the Sens trade Hamonic on TDL to a Cup contender (%50 retained) for two 2nd Rd picks or a 1st Rd pick and a 4th Rd pick.
20 mars à 18 h 17
#39
Jimmy Stu
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Lmao whoops
20 mars à 18 h 44
#40
Always next year
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Hahahahahahahahahahaha!!!!!!!
20 mars à 18 h 48
#41
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Quoting: Kap97
Dorion is such an enigma. Whenever I think he's trending in the right direction he makes a decision like this that makes me think he might not be right in the head


He's not an enigma, he's a simpleton. Just gets lucky occasionally.
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20 mars à 19 h 18
#42
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Modifié 20 mars à 19 h 26
I didnt quote you directly- only part of your post was considered in my own post. Hamonics time in Abby needed context, he wasnt fully vaxxed (which includes a waiting period after your shot), so he couldnt travel to the US, and with the injury to Schenn- they needed a dman to fill the roster and either had to send down Hamonic (who had already cleared waivers due to him not being ready due to missing camp) or put Schenn on LTIR- which means he misses more games than his injury required. He wasnt having problems staying in the line up, nor constantly being sent to Abby. Your own links show that Hamonic has been vaxxed- yet you continue to say he isnt?

Do some research before you post...please try again.
Quoting: sensonfire
Next time, do some research before calling what someone else wrote "crap" and then saying "there have been zero reports".

It will go a long way for you.





https://www.cbc.ca/sports/hockey/nhl/nhl-vancouver-canucks-travis-hamonic-will-be-double-vaccinated-coach-1.6233559

https://theprovince.com/sports/hockey/nhl/vancouver-canucks/travis-hamonics-vaccination-status-sends-him-back-to-abbotsford

https://vancouverhockeynow.com/2021/11/18/nhl-vancouver-canucks-travis-green-hamonic-jim-benning-vaccination/



I never said he was waived because of "poor play" or "salary".

I never said he was a "antivaxx nut job".

Before finally getting vaccinated, he would have taken his daughter into consideration.



Please try again.
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20 mars à 20 h 6
#43
sensonfire
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Modifié 20 mars à 21 h 4
Quoting: rollie1967
I didnt quote you directly- only part of your post was considered in my own post. Hamonics time in Abby needed context, he wasnt fully vaxxed (which includes a waiting period after your shot), so he couldnt travel to the US, and with the injury to Schenn- they needed a dman to fill the roster and either had to send down Hamonic (who had already cleared waivers due to him not being ready due to missing camp) or put Schenn on LTIR- which means he misses more games than his injury required. He wasnt having problems staying in the line up, nor constantly being sent to Abby. Your own links show that Hamonic has been vaxxed- yet you continue to say he isnt?

Do some research before you post...please try again.


1. "He wasn't having problems staying in the lineup"



Hamonic has played 24 games for the Canucks this season.

The Canucks have played 63 games this season up until today.

That means Hamonic was only able to play 38% of the season for the Canucks.

Your dishonesty is so radioactive that it glows in the dark tears of joy



2. "... nor constantly being sent to abby".



According to Capfriendly, he was sent down to the minors 5 times this season.

That's so not constant.




3. "Yet you continue to say he isn't".


I said the following statements:


"Why couldn't Dorion/McGuire just acquire Hamonic for future considerations?"

"The 'future considerations' being that Hamonic would eventually get vaccinated against COVID-19 before joining the team."

"It's the reason why Hamonic was placed on waivers and suspended without pay in the first place."

"Before finally getting vaccinated, he would have taken his daughter into consideration."



At no point did I say he's currently not vaccinated.

Maybe I was implying Ottawa could have acquired him last Fall instead?

Do some reading comprehension before you post ... please try again.
20 mars à 20 h 44
#44
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'6. Why couldn't Dorion/McGuire just acquire Hamonic for future considerations?

The 'future considerations' being that Hamonic would eventually get vaccinated against COVID-19 before joining the team.' yet: 'At no point did I say he's currently not vaccinated.' yes you just did!! last fall- when he was a UFA? so why would they need to pay Vancouver anything? bad attempt at backtracking.
Hamonic has played 2 games in Abby. thats it- again he wasnt sent down because of his play. he has had his share of injuries- nothing new there.

im done with losers like you. youre now on ignore.
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20 mars à 21 h 2
#45
sensonfire
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Quoting: rollie1967
'6. Why couldn't Dorion/McGuire just acquire Hamonic for future considerations?

The 'future considerations' being that Hamonic would eventually get vaccinated against COVID-19 before joining the team.' yet: 'At no point did I say he's currently not vaccinated.' yes you just did!! last fall- when he was a UFA? so why would they need to pay Vancouver anything? bad attempt at backtracking.
Hamonic has played 2 games in Abby. thats it- again he wasnt sent down because of his play. he has had his share of injuries- nothing new there.

im done with losers like you. youre now on ignore.


Bye Felicia.
21 mars à 14 h 24
#46
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Wh-what.
23 mars à 12 h 54
#47
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Quoting: Danny12357
What makes this funnier is that I was texting a friend about how this made no sense for Ottawa as it is, but even less when it's likely Dermott moves for similar value. I mean why not take a flier on a younger D man for half the money and hope for some upside. Then Vancouver reveals the master stroke of swapping Hamonic for Dermott at essentially no net cost, while also saving $1.5M on the cap next year.

It kind of reminds me of the deal where San Jose flipped Hoffman back to the east. Vancouver just made it very obvious how bad this deal was for Ottawa within minutes.


Yeah, this is a weird one. Those of you who are suggesting that Ottawa would have been better off to trade the pick for Dermott instead of Hamonic are assuming that they had the opportunity to do that. I think GMs have their favourite trading partners and probably don’t call every other GM in the league before they make a deal. Dorion may not have known that Dermott was available for a mid-3rd-rounder.

A couple of other pieces of trivia around this that some of you might find mildly entertaining:

1) Vancouver got back their own 2022 third-round pick from Ottawa, but the pick they sent to Toronto isn’t the same 2022 third-round pick. It’s Winnipeg’s. Based on today’s standings, that would be exactly one pick after Vancouver’s, so if that holds, not only did Vancouver exchange Hamonic for Dermott, they also moved up one spot in the draft.

2) Both of these picks were traded for Nate Schmidt at different times. Vancouver traded their pick to Vegas to get Schmidt, then a year later flipped him to Winnipeg for their pick. Since these picks are going to be pretty close to equal, they got a year of Schmidt for nothing (other than his salary).
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23 mars à 15 h 22
#48
NoCupsForCanada
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I got a two-four that says the *other* Pierre had something to do with this deal
23 mars à 16 h 43
#49
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Quoting: jr400
Yeah, this is a weird one. Those of you who are suggesting that Ottawa would have been better off to trade the pick for Dermott instead of Hamonic are assuming that they had the opportunity to do that. I think GMs have their favourite trading partners and probably don’t call every other GM in the league before they make a deal. Dorion may not have known that Dermott was available for a mid-3rd-rounder.

A couple of other pieces of trivia around this that some of you might find mildly entertaining:

1) Vancouver got back their own 2022 third-round pick from Ottawa, but the pick they sent to Toronto isn’t the same 2022 third-round pick. It’s Winnipeg’s. Based on today’s standings, that would be exactly one pick after Vancouver’s, so if that holds, not only did Vancouver exchange Hamonic for Dermott, they also moved up one spot in the draft.

2) Both of these picks were traded for Nate Schmidt at different times. Vancouver traded their pick to Vegas to get Schmidt, then a year later flipped him to Winnipeg for their pick. Since these picks are going to be pretty close to equal, they got a year of Schmidt for nothing (other than his salary).


I would imagine you are right about Dorian not necessarily know that he could have had Dermott (and he likely could not have had him for the same price). I was listening to an episode of the podcast Agent Provacateur and Allan Walsh essentially suggested that a majority of NHL GMs only have a tight circle of other GMs they talk to regularly. I would imagine Dorian isn't talking to Dubas regularly, and Dubas probably would have wanted a bit of a premium to trade Dermott to a division rival, even if that rival isn't a near term playoff threat.

The interesting thing to me though, is that no matter what way you slice it, Ottawa paying an asset for a veteran defensemen at the deadline is a bit strange. Hamonic was on waivers earlier this year I believe, and he doesn't fit the veteran profile Ottawa often looks for. He has a signing bonus, and earns more in salary for next year than he counts against the cap, basically the opposite of what Ottawa usually wants. They could likely have waited until the offseason and likely gotten a veteran D making a little too much from a team looking to shed salary (maybe even Hamonic) or just signed one to an inexpensive deal. The fact that they didn't do either of those things makes be believe they very specifically wanted Hamonic, and see something there worth paying for. Either way, it was a strange deal.
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