And even though those ‘bad’ players are on the team, Chiarot is statistically worse for his team than other MTL Canadiens. If his teammates were all studs it would make sense he’s far worse in relativity. Saying he’s worse relatively speaking and his teammates are trash kind of supports the counter argument.

you have to add the team system to that DD was atrocius so this impact as well. too many thing to considere before getting to the point that no one were fitting their role but last year was a better point to understand him.

I used Rels, so your excuses don't hold water.

Nice try.

Vote for Pedro .

I'll be honest I don't really see the logic in your argument. At the end of the day I'm not arguing that Chiarot is a bad hockey player at all. I just think there's an inflation of his value in the minds of Canadiens fans that the statistics bear, which CD highlighted in comparison to someone I feel like a lot of people are somewhat down on in Manson.

The avs have too many (if there is such a thing) you don’t dman. There’s makar, girard, barron, Byram,and Toews isn’t old either. Helleson will get a better chance in Anaheim, he was way too far down the depth chart. Manson is an okay defensive dman, but the ducks weren’t all that good around him so I think he will do good in Colorado. Plus the second is probably last four or so.

Where all the people that said Manson would fetch a 1st rounder with 50% retention?

Manson hasn't been top4 quality D man in years and this return shows that.

This is fair return for 3rd pair D with 50% retention

Helleson + 2nd is more valuable than a 1st, no?

Go to hell - son

At first I was like, wat is Aniheim thinking, but yeah, now I think they win this trade.

They'd be crazy not to.

Any comparison with the Graves trade has to consider that it was motivated by Colorado thinking they were going to lose him in the expansion draft. Instead they lost Donskoi, so Colorado really gave up Donskoi for Maltsev and a 2nd.

If we're factoring in the expansion draft to the Graves trade, then the trade should be viewed as follows:


Donskoi + Graves

for

Maltsev + a 2nd


Whatever motivations Colorado might have had at the time are of no concern or relevance to New Jersey in that trade ...

or to Minnesota in this trade.

A Colorado 2nd is closer to a 3rd. But, nice reach. And, the FLA 1st for Chiarot is unprotected. With a B- prospect and an additional 4th.

In general teams who trade for rentals are going to have late picks. I think Helleson + late 2nd is more valuable than a late 1st

Not sure what Chiarot has to do with my comment

I quoted you by accident. My bad.

everything’s been downhill since this but bless sakic and verbeek

fair trade.

It’s not fair to say they gave up Graves and Donskoi for Maltsev and a 2nd because they would have lost one of them in the expansion draft anyway, so the trade only cost them one of them. Assuming Seattle would have taken Graves is he was available, which is what Colorado expected, they had two choices:

1) Colorado doesn’t make the trade with NJ, they lose Graves for nothing in the expansion draft, and they keep Donskoi.

2) Colorado makes the trade with NJ, gives up Graves to NJ and Donskoi to Seattle, and gets Maltsev and a 2nd.

They chose 2), so yes, they lost Graves and Donskoi and got Maltsev and a 2nd, but because they would have lost Graves for nothing otherwise, it’s not accurate to view that trade as Donskoi + Graves for Maltsev + 2nd. The difference between 1) and 2) is Donskoi out, Maltsev and a 2nd in, so that’s what the trade meant to Colorado.

My point was that Colorado may have been willing to take less for Graves in a trade because they thought they were going to lose him whether they made the trade or not. You’re absolutely right that this was of no consequence to New Jersey. They wanted Graves and were willing to give up Maltsev and a 2nd to get him. But they probably wouldn’t have got that opportunity if it wasn’t for the looming expansion draft.

It probably doesn’t make sense to compare these trades anyway. A deadline deal is a very different situation from off-season.

Why yes it does my friend