Buffalo pass

Buffalo declines

Leafs decline both trades. Rather have Holl now and next year for 2m. Hagel is nice but the Leafs have plenty of wingers, not logical to trade top two picks and more for him.

We won’t be able to afford Holl after next year…

Also Hagel is worth everything given up for him. A top 6F with 2 years left and an RFA at the end who’s qualifying offer is 2 million.

I mean miller is injured and you guys are getting a bottom pairing dman back with a year left. It hard to ask for a lot more for an injured player.

We dont need holl, no need to play him over our young players

????? So what if Leafs can't afford Holl in 23/24. Leafs still have Brodie, Liljegren, Dermot (still under Leafs control). Hoping Niemela on the way.

Leafs have Kerfoot, Bunting, Mikheyev, and Engvall doing fine at LW.... Kerfoot, Bunting, and Engvall under Leafs control next year and Robertson, Amirov, and Steeves on the way. If there is any position the Leafs are deep it's LW.

So if an injury happens at LW your playing Mikheyev, And Negvall higher in the line up…

Our actual minors depth was exposed last year in the playoffs. The second Tavares went down we had no answer. Getting Hagel who can play top 6 mins or play a shutdown role would be an excellent addition.

As Niemela is 3 yrs away. Defenceman take longer to develop. A lot longer. We didn’t get to see Liljegren in a full time role until 4yrs after he was drafted

Playing younger players without experience veterans is what cause players not to develop. You need a mixture of both to be successful. I’m not tryna say you need Holl we have other assets (prospects) like Mikko Kokonen who we can change out for the trade as we would have enough accrued cap space to take on Colin Miller prorated cap at the deadline plus keep Holl.

Dahlin-Jokiharju
Samuelson-Fitzgerald
Bryson-Pysyk

I wouldn't scratch any of those players for Holl

You do realize Holl has a better GSVA than everyone on the Sabres d-core minus Dahlin and the difference is 0.1 between Dahlin and Holl.

i truly do not care

But we probably don’t have a NEED for a bottom pair defender
We’re trying to keep Pysyk around- he’s been pretty decent for us this year
Our NEED is for a top4 RH defender
So u can keep Holl, & we’ll likely just get the best pick possible for Miller (whether that’s from u guys or someone else)

Holl would be perfect with Dahlin.
While I would want more for Miller (who was actually having a career year before he got hurt 11pts in his first 18 games) considering the current situation, this is an acceptable return.
Too many ACGM's over look what is possible for what they dream of having.

The only reason why Holl gets ragged on is that he’s not a puck mover. Muzz regressed in terms of his puck movement abilities and he needs a puck mover paired beside him. Miller fits that role for the Leafs and Holl fits what Buffalo needs. Buffalo needs defensively sound d man that can help guys like Dahlin focus more on their offensive game.

You and I may be the only Leaf and Sabre fans on ACGM who actually understand this.
I completely agree with you about Muzzin, he has regressed to the point where he is one of the worse Leaf defensemen only Dermott is worse.
Reilly, Brodie and Liljegren are by far the best Leaf defensemen.
Thanks for your comment, Holl and Miller swap is a good deal certainly for Buffalo.
If Miller can get healthy then it is a great deal for the Leafs.
As I said considering everything this is a fair deal.