Oilers would bite your hand off on that Stanley trade, why would you want that??

That’s a no from Toronto.

The only way Liljegren even gets considered to be moved is if it’s for a top 4 RHD who isn’t a rental.

Doubt Copp gets you that much. You are asking for in the same ballpark that guys like Pavelski and Hertl will get and Copp just doesn't have that anything close to that kind of pedigree.

A player without a history being traded, who's playing LW and can flex to Center. He is basically the exact comparable to Kerfoot right down to the points pace this season. The difference of course is that Kerfoot doesn't play on the PP and he has a years term remaining. So think what you would pay for a rental on a player like Kerfoot.

While I don’t think copp is worth this much or in the same ballpark as the guys you mentioned, he’s much much more valuable than kerfoot. Copp’s most valuable asset is his defensive play. By saying he’s about equal to kerfoot, and using points to back up your points, you just ignored the most valuable part of copp’s game.

Copp is a Coleman type player. Can play anywhere in the lineup and is a high end defensive player. Contenders love that and for that, he’s sure as heck worth more than kerfoot

To say Copp has alot more value then kerfoot makes 0 sense. Yes Points shouldn't count alot but the fact is still that there even in points but kerfoots points r all even strength while copp is 5 less. To say Copp d is so much better is not true due to the fact kerfoot has the best plus minus on the leafs and is on their first PK line. His D metrics r strong this year. Lastly kerfoot contract having 1 more year with only 750k base Salery is Gold rn.

You just described Kerfoot. Congratulations. The value of a rental on Copp is comparable to the value of a rental on Kerfoot, right down to the underlying defensive numbers. You might not like it but it is what it is.

Yeah Hertl plays all situations, can play any offensive position and is on a 40 goal pace and people on here don’t want to give up that Copp return for him

And hertl is worth a lot more than liljegren and a 1st. Your point being…? People on here don’t wanna do a lot of things, I’m talking about using actual trades as comparables. As a rental, hertl will get the type of return duchene got.

As a rental, copp will get slightly less than Coleman (cause Coleman had another year when he was traded)

Also, while hertl can play in all situations, he isn’t a high end defensive forward in the league. However, while copp is no Bergeron or Barkov, he’s a high end defensive forward.

Im not saying he’s “a lot” more valuable, but he is more valuable. Kerfoot is a strong defensive player no doubt, but not to the same effect as copp. You brought up PK so let’s look at that. Copp plays the most pk minutes for the jets and 3rd most per game (behind a couple of defensemen). On that same list for the leafs, kerfoot is 7th and 8th. Copp plays almost 40 seconds a game more than kerfoot on the PK. Additionally, since he’s the jets most used PKer, he plays against top units. Based on stats, kerfoot has at least 2 penalty killing forwards ahead of him, thus getting 2nd power plays. Add in the fact that the jets PK was absolutely terrible before Lowry came in and plus minus becomes an even more useless stat than it already is.

Now, let’s move to even strength as you brought up. Copp has better possession numbers, though they are close admittedly. However, taking a deeper look reveals that both players aren’t even close defensively. Copp plays 20:52 a night, and kerfoot plays 15:38. Copp plays against the oppositions best players every night. Kerfoot only does so when kieffe can play the matchups he likes (at home) and when he isn’t comfortable with Tavares and marner going up against them (rare).

Moving onto faceoff. Copp 55%. Kerfoot 38%. Enough said.

Now moving to even strength scoring and a deeper look into rate metrics reveals both are very close. (Pts/60 2.2 for copp, 2.7 for kerfoot)

Finally, you mentioned contract. The real dollars don’t matter for contending teams. They care about cap. And kerfoot doesn’t really come any cheaper than copp.

Overall, as I said in my initial reply, copp simply effects the game more than kerfoot because he brings a defensive game and versatility that kerfoot simply doesn’t not match. This can be seen by virtually any defensive stat and by usage by both teams.



read above then read here.
Now, you can either not pick at the analytics and make a case that copp’s analytics and results are worse, thus completely ignoring that Copp plays much harder minutes than kerfoot. Or, you could take the results for what they actually show. Or as you said it “ You might not like it but it is what it is”.

Welcome to CapFriendly. Just to let you know, so many (including Leafs fans) think Leafs players aren't good and worth minimal in any trade. Yea, Copp is nice, but the Leafs seem pretty solid at forward. No way the Leafs should be trading a top 7 Dman, without getting one back for hopefully a long play run. Certainly the Leafs aren't trading Liljegren who has controllable years and has cheap cap.
CF followers seem to dump on Kerfoot. But IMO he has been the fifth best forward this year on the Leafs. So Copp is the fourth or fifth best forward on non playoff Jets makes him so valuable to the Leafs?

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So Copp is a better defensive player but he's been on the ice for more goals against than Kerfoot, and his high danger scoring chance for % is 45 while Kerfoot's is 55. Looks like Kerfoot is better defensively but this is capfriendly so everyone player on any team is better than Leaf depth players especially defensively because fans say so without really having any idea whats actually happening.

Because Jets fans say so. He is hardly a high end defensive player. He's just a depth player who has gotten a fair amount of points the past 2 years. He's not all that special and there will be as many sellers and buyers this year, maybe more sellers you aren't getting insane prices just because you want to and make up reasons with zero evidence to support them.

Cherry picking stats but leaving out the big ones. Typical. Copp allows more chances against than Kerfoot and way more of the high danger variety. Not optimal for a top defensive player. So your whole statement of PK time is nonsense and at evens Copp grades out much worse.

But let's talk about the PK because this one is really good. TO has the 4th best PK and Winnipeg has the 29th best PK, so Copp is definitely not doing great work on the 4th worst PK in the league.

What's the moral here? Once again everyone on cap friendly sees all the Leaf players outside their core for and top 3 defenceman as AHLers, and all depth players on bad teams are all superstars in comparison. Unfortunately it's never really the case. Copp is less than Kerfoot.

The Leafs are never giving that for Copp, would be lucky to get a 1st for him.

A little too much for Copp and the Jets are selling way low in the Philly deal.

Cherry picking the exact stats that would be impacted based on the situation Copp plays c’s the situations kerfoot plays in. Copp plays against the other teams’ best. They are bound to get their chances. Kerfoot on the other hand, plays against 3rd lines. How about you look at a quality of competition chart or something useful like that to put other stats into context.

The jets PK was absolutely abysmal before maurice left. However, either way Copp was one of the only bright spots. He would be playing top PK time on most teams. I don’t have stats to back me up there because you can’t, but you will just have to watch a jets game.

As I said, I don’t think kerfoot is not valuable. He is. He’s worth what high end 3rd liners are worth. A 3rd + and good prospect or a 2nd. However, copp is worth at least a 1st. Just look at the market for Coleman for example. That’s the best comparable available.

When kerfoot is playing the same amount and type of minutes that Copp is playing, then you can make the claim that kerfoot is a better or equal player.

Also like the idea of Lane Lambert becoming coach. If somehow we find a way to draft Brad then there will be solid chemistry.

Stanley isn't going to Edmonton. Better teams would be Ducks, Bruins, or Rangers.

I do like the Flyers deal. Gives us the top 6 RW, though I wouldn't have Provorov in the deal. We are full of left-handed shots so Provorov wouldn't fit. I would make this deal to a different team and get the top 6 RW but a right shot defenseman instead.

LA would say no to the deal, but if the 4th isn't included then they will consider it.

Beaulieu needs to go. Hes usually on the ice for most of the goals scored against us every game.

I do like the Stastny deal but I would keep him. What I would do is buyout Wheeler's contract, it would make signing Dubois much easier.

Bias as can be. Copp is a fine player but your ask is ridiculous.