Forums/Armchair-GM

Untouchables

Créé par: Mediumyeet
Date de création initiale: 26 janv. 2022
Publié: 26 janv. 2022
Équipe: 2021-22 Canucks de Vancouver
Explications
Schneider is not untouchable. I don't care what a few NYR fans say. There are multiple reports that NYR is really high on Miller and are expected to be very aggressive this deadline.
Transactions
1.
VAN
  1. Schneider, Braden
  2. Chytil, Filip
  3. 2022 1e round pick (NYR)
NYR
  1. Miller, J.T.
  2. Schenn, Luke
  3. 2022 5e round pick (VAN)
2.
VAN
  1. Bernard-Docker, Jacob
  2. Formenton, Alex
Détails additionnels:
Offseason
OTT
  1. Boeser, Brock
  2. DiPietro, Michael
Détails additionnels:
Offseason
Rachats de contrats
  • Braden Holtby: 500 000 $
  • Jake Virtanen: 50 000 $
Frais appliqués
  • Roberto Luongo: 3 035 212 $
ANNÉE DE REPÊCHAGERONDE 1RONDE 2RONDE 3RONDE 4RONDE 5RONDE 6RONDE 7
2022
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2023
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Logo de VAN
2024
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Logo de VAN
TAILLE DE LA FORMATIONPLAFOND SALARIALCAP HITEXCÉDENTS Info-bulleBONISESPACE SOUS LE PLAFOND SALARIAL
2581 500 000 $71 433 159 $648 780 $4 332 500 $10 066 841 $
Ailier gaucheCentreAilier droit
Logo de VAN
Höglander, Nils
891 667 $
AG, AD
RFA - 2
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Pettersson, Elias
7 350 000 $
C, AG
RFA - 3
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Podkolzin, Vasily
925 000 $
AG, AD
RFA - 3
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Pearson, Tanner
3 250 000 $
AG
NTC
UFA - 3
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Horvat, Bo
5 500 000 $
C
UFA - 2
Logo de VAN
Garland, Conor
4 950 000 $
AD, AG
UFA - 5
Logo de OTT
Formenton, Alex
747 500 $
AG
RFA - 1
Logo de NYR
Chytil, Filip
2 300 000 $
C, AG
RFA - 2
Logo de VAN
Motte, Tyler
1 225 000 $
AG, AD
UFA - 1
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Lammikko, Juho
750 000 $
C, AG
UFA - 1
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Dickinson, Jason
2 650 000 $
C, AG
UFA - 3
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Highmore, Matthew
725 000 $
AG, AD
UFA - 1
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Dowling, Justin
750 000 $
C, AG
UFA - 2
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Chiasson, Alex
750 000 $
AD
UFA - 1
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Bailey, Justin
750 000 $
AD
UFA - 1
Défenseur gaucherDéfenseur droitierGardien de but
Logo de VAN
Hughes, Quinn
7 850 000 $
DG
UFA - 6
Logo de NYR
Schneider, Braden
925 000 $
DD
RFA - 3
Logo de VAN
Demko, Thatcher
5 000 000 $
G
UFA - 5
Logo de VAN
Ekman-Larsson, Oliver
7 260 000 $
DG
NMC
UFA - 6
Logo de VAN
Myers, Tyler
6 000 000 $
DD
NTC
UFA - 3
Logo de VAN
Halák, Jaroslav
1 500 000 $
G
NMC
UFA - 1
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Rathbone, Jack
925 000 $
DG
RFA - 1
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Poolman, Tucker
2 500 000 $
DD
UFA - 4
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Martin, Spencer
800 000 $
G
UFA - 1
Logo de OTT
Bernard-Docker, Jacob
925 000 $
DD
RFA - 2
Laissés de côtéListe des blessés (IR)Liste des blessés à long terme (LTIR)
Logo de VAN
Ferland, Micheal
3 500 000 $
AG, AD
NTC
UFA - 2
Logo de VAN
Hamonic, Travis
3 000 000 $
DD
NTC
UFA - 2
Logo de VAN
Sutter, Brandon
1 125 000 $
AD, C
UFA - 1
Logo de VAN
Keeper, Brady
762 500 $
DD
UFA - 2
Logo de VAN
Brisebois, Guillaume
750 000 $
DG
RFA - 1
Équipe de réserve
Logo de VAN
Dries, Sheldon
750 000 $ (0 $)
C
UFA - 1

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26 janv. à 16 h 11
#1
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I wouldn’t say he is untouchable. They likely have 0 intentions of trading him unless it’s an unbelievable deal(not what you have above). They had 0 intentions of using him to acquire Eichel so that’s a good benchmark of why fans are crazily saying “untouchable”.
26 janv. à 16 h 18
#2
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Quoting: NYR1983
I wouldn’t say he is untouchable. They likely have 0 intentions of trading him unless it’s an unbelievable deal(not what you have above). They had 0 intentions of using him to acquire Eichel so that’s a good benchmark of why fans are crazily saying “untouchable”.


I see the eichel argument a lot and not just with NYR fans, you see it with wild fans and others. The situations are very different. Bringing in Eichel with his 10mil contract changes the outlook of everything including moving on from Zib most likely. There were very large decisions that would have to be made outside of just the acquisition cost. They also likely wanted 2 of Kakko/Laf/Schneider/Lundqvist + picks. If you look at what they ended up getting

Tuch + Krebs + 1st + 2nd

They were probably looking for a package that was some variation of

Kakko/Laf + Schneider/Lundqvist + 1st + 2nd/3rd.

They were certainly unwilling to include guys in a package of that totality paired with having to move on from Zib. If it was only one of those guys plus some picks that's a different story but when you start packaging them together it changes things.
26 janv. à 16 h 20
#3
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I dont think either trade is too far off base.

I agree that Schneider is definitely not untouchable but given how he's progressed since being drafted I would be surprised if the Rangers coughed him up in a trade like this. I'd imagine they'd much rather sub Kravstov + picks in for Schneider in this deal.

The Ottawa trade isnt bad either. Would need to swap DiPietro out for a different prospect or pick given Ottawa's goalie depth. I think a lot would hinge on Boeser's health and what his next contract looks like but Forms and JBD is reasonable. I wouldnt touch the deal as is but if the contract is negotiated ahead of time à la Mark Stone deal and theyre not taking a goalie then I could see it happening.
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26 janv. à 16 h 27
#4
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Quoting: TheBoyDuddus
I dont think either trade is too far off base.

I agree that Schneider is definitely not untouchable but given how he's progressed since being drafted I would be surprised if the Rangers coughed him up in a trade like this. I'd imagine they'd much rather sub Kravstov + picks in for Schneider in this deal.

The Ottawa trade isnt bad either. Would need to swap DiPietro out for a different prospect or pick given Ottawa's goalie depth. I think a lot would hinge on Boeser's health and what his next contract looks like but Forms and JBD is reasonable. I wouldnt touch the deal as is but if the contract is negotiated ahead of time à la Mark Stone deal and theyre not taking a goalie then I could see it happening.


I'm sure the Rangers would rather give up kravtsov and picks but I don't think they're going to get a game changer without giving up Schneider. Whether it's Miller, Chychrun, Hertl or whoever else of that caliber they are going to want Schneider or maybe Lindgren. Kravtsov doesn't hold much value after what has gone on with him in NYR paired with having to get him over here again from Russia.

Rangers will likely have to go down a tier in what they look to acquire at the deadline if they're unwilling to part with Schneider. Every gm in the league sees that RHD is a position of strength for NYR and they can afford to give up one of their young RHD. NYR needs scoring depth if they want to be successful in the playoffs this year and next. As nice as it is to have Schneider and Lindgren in the system, they do not need those guys over the next 2/3 seasons.

The Ottawa trade could use some massaging but I like the core of it for both teams.
26 janv. à 16 h 40
#5
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Quoting: Mediumyeet
I see the eichel argument a lot and not just with NYR fans, you see it with wild fans and others. The situations are very different. Bringing in Eichel with his 10mil contract changes the outlook of everything including moving on from Zib most likely. There were very large decisions that would have to be made outside of just the acquisition cost. They also likely wanted 2 of Kakko/Laf/Schneider/Lundqvist + picks. If you look at what they ended up getting

Tuch + Krebs + 1st + 2nd

They were probably looking for a package that was some variation of

Kakko/Laf + Schneider/Lundqvist + 1st + 2nd/3rd.

They were certainly unwilling to include guys in a package of that totality paired with having to move on from Zib. If it was only one of those guys plus some picks that's a different story but when you start packaging them together it changes things.


Kravs, Lundkvist, 1st, 1st would be a fairly similar package with Kravs=2nd. I think it could have been done without the others. Or add for some retention which would take out to cap issues. Regardless, it would also mean having him for 4.5 seasons whereas JT is only 1.5 seasons and we’d lose Strome so it’s not all that dissimilar. Eichel going into his prime for a number of years or JT for a cup run, kind of a no brainer(not saying JT isn’t good, always been a fan). Now, the fun part, you’re hearing this from every fan base which means the packages you want and expect are too much. The scenario I see them actually letting go of Schneider in the trade above is with 50% retention and change the 5th to a 2nd. Both sides would be cringing while also seeing the value. But that’s my opinion and everyone else on here has a different one. However if Schneider is changed to Lundkvist I see that working too
26 janv. à 16 h 51
#6
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Think the Rangers trade Nils before Schneider
26 janv. à 16 h 53
#7
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Quoting: NYR1983
Kravs, Lundkvist, 1st, 1st would be a fairly similar package with Kravs=2nd. I think it could have been done without the others. Or add for some retention which would take out to cap issues. Regardless, it would also mean having him for 4.5 seasons whereas JT is only 1.5 seasons and we’d lose Strome so it’s not all that dissimilar. Eichel going into his prime for a number of years or JT for a cup run, kind of a no brainer(not saying JT isn’t good, always been a fan). Now, the fun part, you’re hearing this from every fan base which means the packages you want and expect are too much. The scenario I see them actually letting go of Schneider in the trade above is with 50% retention and change the 5th to a 2nd. Both sides would be cringing while also seeing the value. But that’s my opinion and everyone else on here has a different one. However if Schneider is changed to Lundkvist I see that working too


I'm not hearing this on just Miller trades from other fanbases. You hear if anytime someone like Rossi, Addison, Schneider, Kakko etc is mentioned in a trade "we wouldn't trade him for Eichel we aren't trading him for X". There is just a lot more to it than that.

Id take a package of Krav, Lundqvist, 1st, 1st but I honestly think it is more likely they give up Schneider than 2 1sts plus Lundqvist.

Getting Miller doesn't mean Strome has to go. You are clearing 2.3m moving Chytil and then can clear 2.5 more by moving Nemeth at the draft and replace Georgiev with a 1m backup. At that point you're moving out roughly 6 mil and bringing in 5.25m for Miller. So you still have the ability to sign Strome if you want to. It's certainly possible that Vancouver is willing to retain a bit of salary but I don't think it will be 50% maybe 25% if they're getting the exact return they want.

On another note, Buffalo was never going to retain on eichel for 5 yrs unless the return was SIGNIFICANTLY better than what they got and nobody was going to offer that because it would completely gut their own organization.
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26 janv. à 16 h 55
#8
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Swap Schneider for Kravtsov or ask elsewhere.
26 janv. à 16 h 58
#9
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Quoting: Stanley_Cup_To_Manhattan
Swap Schneider for Kravtsov or ask elsewhere.


Lol some of you Rangers fans are going to be in shambles when Drury ends up making a big move whether that be for chycrun, Miller, Hertl, Giroux, debrincat, or someone else.

If you want to being the Stanley Cup to Manhattan you're going to have to improve the depth scoring.
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26 janv. à 17 h 1
#10
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Quoting: Mediumyeet
Lol some of you Rangers fans are going to be in shambles when Drury ends up making a big move whether that be for chycrun, Miller, Hertl, Giroux, debrincat, or someone else.

If you want to being the Stanley Cup to Manhattan you're going to have to improve the depth scoring.


You know that we don't have to overpay to get depth scoring right. "Depth" for a reason.
26 janv. à 17 h 23
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Quoting: Mediumyeet
I'm not hearing this on just Miller trades from other fanbases. You hear if anytime someone like Rossi, Addison, Schneider, Kakko etc is mentioned in a trade "we wouldn't trade him for Eichel we aren't trading him for X". There is just a lot more to it than that.

Id take a package of Krav, Lundqvist, 1st, 1st but I honestly think it is more likely they give up Schneider than 2 1sts plus Lundqvist.

Getting Miller doesn't mean Strome has to go. You are clearing 2.3m moving Chytil and then can clear 2.5 more by moving Nemeth at the draft and replace Georgiev with a 1m backup. At that point you're moving out roughly 6 mil and bringing in 5.25m for Miller. So you still have the ability to sign Strome if you want to. It's certainly possible that Vancouver is willing to retain a bit of salary but I don't think it will be 50% maybe 25% if they're getting the exact return they want.

On another note, Buffalo was never going to retain on eichel for 5 yrs unless the return was SIGNIFICANTLY better than what they got and nobody was going to offer that because it would completely gut their own organization.


People need to realize that a trade of that magnitude needs to work for both organizations. Given that NYR is heavily pursuing Miller and they have an excess of young RD in Schneider/Lundkvist, (a Vancouver imperative) this is a match made in heaven. What the ancillary pieces will be is too tough to gauge, but a high pick (1st or 2nd) and a lesser player seem very likely.
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26 janv. à 17 h 32
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Quoting: Boldirev
People need to realize that a trade of that magnitude needs to work for both organizations. Given that NYR is heavily pursuing Miller and they have an excess of young RD in Schneider/Lundkvist, (a Vancouver imperative) this is a match made in heaven. What the ancillary pieces will be is too tough to gauge, but a high pick (1st or 2nd) and a lesser player seem very likely.


Exactly, this is a very reasonable take. You can almost guarantee these discussions are taking place around Miller for Schneider/Lundqvist (more likely Schneider as he fits the need better than Lundkvist). The rest of it is sorting out exactly what is involved and if they can come to agreement on that value.
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26 janv. à 17 h 36
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Quoting: Stanley_Cup_To_Manhattan
You know that we don't have to overpay to get depth scoring right. "Depth" for a reason.


I'm not the one connecting NYR to the bigger names out there. The multiple reports from people paid to find these scoops are the ones doing that. It's been reported multiple times that they are looking for someone to add to their top 6 and specifically heavily interested in Miller.

Issue with a lot of fans is they never want to win now they always want to win later. Drury has already made moves (Goodrow and Reaves) to win In the playoffs now not to mention the owner canned the past management group and is a notorious for being impatient and wanting to win now. The Rangers best chance at winning is over the next 1-3 yrs. That's not to say they won't still be good and have a chance after that but their top 4 forwards are all going to be into their 30s at that point.
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26 janv. à 18 h 5
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Quoting: Mediumyeet
I'm not hearing this on just Miller trades from other fanbases. You hear if anytime someone like Rossi, Addison, Schneider, Kakko etc is mentioned in a trade "we wouldn't trade him for Eichel we aren't trading him for X". There is just a lot more to it than that.

Id take a package of Krav, Lundqvist, 1st, 1st but I honestly think it is more likely they give up Schneider than 2 1sts plus Lundqvist.

Getting Miller doesn't mean Strome has to go. You are clearing 2.3m moving Chytil and then can clear 2.5 more by moving Nemeth at the draft and replace Georgiev with a 1m backup. At that point you're moving out roughly 6 mil and bringing in 5.25m for Miller. So you still have the ability to sign Strome if you want to. It's certainly possible that Vancouver is willing to retain a bit of salary but I don't think it will be 50% maybe 25% if they're getting the exact return they want.

On another note, Buffalo was never going to retain on eichel for 5 yrs unless the return was SIGNIFICANTLY better than what they got and nobody was going to offer that because it would completely gut their own organization.


I think the retention on Eichel is why the deal never happened. But it’s the only way we could have worked him and Zibby in. Chytil, Geo, nemeth only open 1.5M each as they would be replaced by a 1M contract, Strome will be 6M on the low end and Kakko needs a pay increase. JT just doesn’t fit unless retained or lose Strome. We are starting to get into a cap crunch but it’s nowhere close to what TB has managed to manoeuvre around but it doesn’t mean we can just add 5.5M while dropping raises on current players. We will see if a deal is done in a few weeks and what the package consists of. Currently everyone is speculating the high end of what a return could be and not what the actual package will be. Chariot “could fetch a 1st” has turned into 1st + in every ACGMs. I would think we sooner trade a 2nd for Lehkonen and QO next year for the 2RW position while keeping all the promising youth who are making a decent impact as depth and will be vital to future
26 janv. à 18 h 15
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Quoting: Boldirev
People need to realize that a trade of that magnitude needs to work for both organizations. Given that NYR is heavily pursuing Miller and they have an excess of young RD in Schneider/Lundkvist, (a Vancouver imperative) this is a match made in heaven. What the ancillary pieces will be is too tough to gauge, but a high pick (1st or 2nd) and a lesser player seem very likely.


Totally agree with this. Lundkvist, 1st, 2nd is a reasonable price for both sides. VAN gets the RD that no one else can supply
26 janv. à 18 h 34
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Quoting: NYR1983
I think the retention on Eichel is why the deal never happened. But it’s the only way we could have worked him and Zibby in. Chytil, Geo, nemeth only open 1.5M each as they would be replaced by a 1M contract, Strome will be 6M on the low end and Kakko needs a pay increase. JT just doesn’t fit unless retained or lose Strome. We are starting to get into a cap crunch but it’s nowhere close to what TB has managed to manoeuvre around but it doesn’t mean we can just add 5.5M while dropping raises on current players. We will see if a deal is done in a few weeks and what the package consists of. Currently everyone is speculating the high end of what a return could be and not what the actual package will be. Chariot “could fetch a 1st” has turned into 1st + in every ACGMs. I would think we sooner trade a 2nd for Lehkonen and QO next year for the 2RW position while keeping all the promising youth who are making a decent impact as depth and will be vital to future


Chytil geo Nemeth opens more than 1.5m. Their three contacts add up to 7.225m. Chytil is replaced by Miller (5.25), Nemeth replacement level (850k), Georgiev replaced by a backup for (1.125). That makes it an even 7.225 coming in and 7.225 going out. That replacement D and goalie could also be signed for league minimum 750k if they are really in a crunch. If they replace them with 750k guys then that leaves roughly 8.8m to re-sign Strome, Kakko, Blais. The following year they have 3.5m in dead cap buyouts coming off the books. It would be really tight but theoretically they could get Strome by giving him a RNH type contract at 8yrs 5.2 million. That leaves you with 3.5 mil to Blais and Kakko. Blais being injured isn't going to get a raise so max he is 1.5m leaving you 2mil to bridge Kakko which even if it's just a 1yr deal would work.

I think NYR will try to get some retention in a Miller deal. If they can get 1.25 retained making Miller cap hit 4mil that would go a long ways in giving them some breathing room.

I agree it will be interesting to see what does down in the coming weeks. I'm a Canuck fan but I watch the Rangers a lot as well and would love to see Miller back there for a couple of playoff runs.

EDIT: since Rutherford wants to clear cap space I think he will be pretty firm on not retaining but maybe this is one of those deals where a 3rd team comes in for retention and gets a pick from the Rangers for it.
26 janv. à 18 h 46
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Quoting: Mediumyeet
Chytil geo Nemeth opens more than 1.5m. Their three contacts add up to 7.225m. Chytil is replaced by Miller (5.25), Nemeth replacement level (850k), Georgiev replaced by a backup for (1.125). That makes it an even 7.225 coming in and 7.225 going out. That replacement D and goalie could also be signed for league minimum 750k if they are really in a crunch. If they replace them with 750k guys then that leaves roughly 8.8m to re-sign Strome, Kakko, Blais. The following year they have 3.5m in dead cap buyouts coming off the books. It would be really tight but theoretically they could get Strome by giving him a RNH type contract at 8yrs 5.2 million. That leaves you with 3.5 mil to Blais and Kakko. Blais being injured isn't going to get a raise so max he is 1.5m leaving you 2mil to bridge Kakko which even if it's just a 1yr deal would work.

I think NYR will try to get some retention in a Miller deal. If they can get 1.25 retained making Miller cap hit 4mil that would go a long ways in giving them some breathing room.

I agree it will be interesting to see what does down in the coming weeks. I'm a Canuck fan but I watch the Rangers a lot as well and would love to see Miller back there for a couple of playoff runs.

EDIT: since Rutherford wants to clear cap space I think he will be pretty firm on not retaining but maybe this is one of those deals where a 3rd team comes in for retention and gets a pick from the Rangers for it.


I said 1.5M each not total(approx). NYR will want and need the retention. Zibby and Fox raises plus Kakko will be 3M ish I would think. Miller would be a fantastic add no doubt. Not sure what the time line on Blais is for 3RW and who knows what could happen with Kravs but 2RW just might work if he returns after K is over. I think that’s how it was always supposed to be.
26 janv. à 18 h 47
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Quoting: NYR1983
Totally agree with this. Lundkvist, 1st, 2nd is a reasonable price for both sides. VAN gets the RD that no one else can supply


I think that return would be pretty fair. My only thing with a deal involving Lundqvist over Schneider is he's not really the type of RHD Vancouver needs. Ultimately if Schneider isn't involved I think Rutherford would end up holding onto Miller past the deadline and re-evaluating in the offseason when teams that are in the hunt right now could be more willing to move a roster dman. For example John Marino from Pittsburgh isn't getting moved at the deadline but perhaps in the offseason something could be worked out. Or Fabbro from Nashville or something like that. Just opens up different options in the offseason.
26 janv. à 18 h 57
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Quoting: NYR1983
I said 1.5M each not total(approx). NYR will want and need the retention. Zibby and Fox raises plus Kakko will be 3M ish I would think. Miller would be a fantastic add no doubt. Not sure what the time line on Blais is for 3RW and who knows what could happen with Kravs but 2RW just might work if he returns after K is over. I think that’s how it was always supposed to be.


My bad I misunderstood the 1.5m. They can probably get Kakko at 2mil in a crunch on a 1yr bridge. The following year they will have a bit more space clear up for a longer bridge. I plugged the numbers and it wouldn't be ideal but it is doable to re-sign them all without Miller retention. Like I said though maybe a 3rd team gets involved to retain some salary though that makes the deal more expensive for NYR.
26 janv. à 19 h 54
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Quoting: Mediumyeet
My bad I misunderstood the 1.5m. They can probably get Kakko at 2mil in a crunch on a 1yr bridge. The following year they will have a bit more space clear up for a longer bridge. I plugged the numbers and it wouldn't be ideal but it is doable to re-sign them all without Miller retention. Like I said though maybe a 3rd team gets involved to retain some salary though that makes the deal more expensive for NYR.


3rd retention would be good. I’d love to see it happen but wonder if it will. I really thought VAN would have been better this season. Maybe a quick retool can boost it
Mediumyeet a aimé ceci.
26 janv. à 20 h 7
#21
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Quoting: NYR1983
3rd retention would be good. I’d love to see it happen but wonder if it will. I really thought VAN would have been better this season. Maybe a quick retool can boost it


Vans defense is just a mess. There's some decent players but the pieces don't fit together at all. Up front their top 9 is pretty solid but you can only do so much when the defense is such a disaster.
27 janv. à 10 h 31
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Quoting: Mediumyeet
I think that return would be pretty fair. My only thing with a deal involving Lundqvist over Schneider is he's not really the type of RHD Vancouver needs. Ultimately if Schneider isn't involved I think Rutherford would end up holding onto Miller past the deadline and re-evaluating in the offseason when teams that are in the hunt right now could be more willing to move a roster dman. For example John Marino from Pittsburgh isn't getting moved at the deadline but perhaps in the offseason something could be worked out. Or Fabbro from Nashville or something like that. Just opens up different options in the offseason.


I really like Schneider too, but I also think we ( Canuck fans) may be undervaluing Lundqvist a bit. The more I read about him, the more I find to like. He rates very highly on skill and hockey IQ, two attributes that are much harder to come by than size and physicality. Given that we need to upgrade everything on the blue line, I would not be surprised if Rutherford quite happily takes him.
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27 janv. à 23 h 13
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Quoting: Boldirev
I really like Schneider too, but I also think we ( Canuck fans) may be undervaluing Lundqvist a bit. The more I read about him, the more I find to like. He rates very highly on skill and hockey IQ, two attributes that are much harder to come by than size and physicality. Given that we need to upgrade everything on the blue line, I would not be surprised if Rutherford quite happily takes him.


I think Lundqvist is really good too. I could see him being similar to Girard in Colorado. My only hesitancy with him is that we have not just Hughes but also Rathbone. I suppose they could look to move Rathbone at that point but to get full value on Rathbone he needs to get a bit of time in the NHL to show himself.
 
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