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Vrana Mantha Type Deal

Créé par: yycofred
Équipe: 2021-22 Flames de Calgary
Date de création initiale: 21 janv. 2022
Publié: 26 janv. 2022
Mode - plafond salarial: Basique
Transactions
1.
CGY
  1. Fiala, Kevin
  2. Choix de 2e ronde en 2022 (MIN)
MIN
  1. Gawdin, Glenn
  2. Jordan, Cole [Liste de réserve]
  3. Mangiapane, Andrew
  4. Choix de 1e ronde en 2022 (CGY)
2.
OTT
  1. Pitlick, Tyler
  2. Choix de 6e ronde en 2023 (CGY)
Rachats de contrats
Enfoui
Repêchage1e ronde2e ronde3e ronde4e ronde5e ronde6e ronde7e ronde
2022
Logo de CGY
Logo de FLA
Logo de MIN
Logo de CGY
Logo de CGY
2023
Logo de CGY
Logo de CGY
Logo de CGY
Logo de CGY
Logo de CGY
Logo de CGY
2024
Logo de CGY
Logo de CGY
Logo de CGY
Logo de CGY
Logo de CGY
Logo de CGY
Logo de CGY
TAILLE DE LA FORMATIONPLAFOND SALARIALCAP HITEXCÉDENTS Info-bulleBONISESPACE SOUS LE PLAFOND SALARIAL
2281 500 000 $74 027 499 $0 $15 000 $7 472 501 $
Ailier gaucheCentreAilier droit
Logo de Flames de Calgary
6 750 000 $6 750 000 $
AG
M-NTC
UFA - 1
Logo de Flames de Calgary
4 850 000 $4 850 000 $
C, AD
UFA - 3
Logo de Flames de Calgary
7 000 000 $7 000 000 $
AD
UFA - 1
Logo de Flames de Calgary
4 900 000 $4 900 000 $
AD, AG
NTC
UFA - 6
Logo de Flames de Calgary
5 350 000 $5 350 000 $
C
M-NTC
UFA - 3
Logo de Wild du Minnesota
5 100 000 $5 100 000 $
AD, AG
UFA - 1
Logo de Flames de Calgary
863 333 $863 333 $
AG
RFA - 3
Logo de Flames de Calgary
6 375 000 $6 375 000 $
C, AG, AD
M-NTC
UFA - 2
Logo de Flames de Calgary
2 300 000 $2 300 000 $
AG, AD, C
RFA - 3
Logo de Flames de Calgary
5 250 000 $5 250 000 $
AG, AD
M-NTC, NMC
UFA - 2
Logo de Flames de Calgary
801 666 $801 666 $ (Bonis de performance15 000 $$15K)
AG, C
UFA - 1
Logo de Flames de Calgary
900 000 $900 000 $
AD
UFA - 1
Défenseur gaucherDéfenseur droitierGardien de but
Logo de Flames de Calgary
1 237 500 $1 237 500 $
DG
UFA - 3
Logo de Flames de Calgary
4 550 000 $4 550 000 $
DD
UFA - 5
Logo de Flames de Calgary
6 000 000 $6 000 000 $
G
NMC
UFA - 5
Logo de Flames de Calgary
750 000 $750 000 $
DG/DD
UFA - 1
Logo de Flames de Calgary
1 125 000 $1 125 000 $
DD
M-NTC
UFA - 3
Logo de Flames de Calgary
750 000 $750 000 $
G
UFA - 2
Logo de Flames de Calgary
3 750 000 $3 750 000 $
DG/DD
UFA - 1
Logo de Flames de Calgary
1 950 000 $1 950 000 $
DD
UFA - 1
Laissés de côtéListe des blessés (IR)Liste des blessés à long terme (LTIR)
Logo de Flames de Calgary
800 000 $800 000 $
AD, C
UFA - 1
Logo de Sénateurs d'Ottawa
750 000 $750 000 $
DG
UFA - 1
Équipe de réserve
Logo de Flames de Calgary
750 000 $750 000 $ (0 $$00 $$0)
DD
UFA - 1
Logo de Flames de Calgary
800 000 $800 000 $ (0 $$00 $$0)
C
UFA - 1

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26 janv. 2022 à 12 h 50
#26
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Quoting: Ledge_And_Dairy
Ok so Fiala replaces Mangiapane on the 2nd unit in Calgary because he's not pushing anyone off the 1st unit. Do you genuinely think he will be more effective than Mangiapane there? Fiala playing on the 1st unit in Minnesota has major effects here that you are not at all accounting for


Absolutely he would be. Who is the shooter on PP2? A combination of Dube, Fiala, Lucic, Kylington/Hanifin/Backlund is significantly more dangerous than what they're rolling out now which is just 3 or 4 puck retrieval guys with Kylington or Hanifin.
26 janv. 2022 à 12 h 54
#27
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Quoting: Ledge_And_Dairy
Does he bring more offensively? Or is he just playing higher in the line up on the PP because of Minnesota's lack of better players? Also if good offense was so highly valued why is a player like Mark Stone considered a top 5 RW in the entire league?


Yes. He does. We are looking at overall stats because we want to see who brings more to the table overall, not compared to role. And also yes, offense is more valued since it is harder to find. The only way you can get good offence without overpaying significantly is through the draft. Defense can be acquired via free agency. Stone is good at both, but I think he is overrated. That's a discussion for another day, though.
26 janv. 2022 à 12 h 59
#28
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Quoting: yycofred
Absolutely he would be. Who is the shooter on PP2? A combination of Dube, Fiala, Lucic, Kylington/Hanifin/Backlund is significantly more dangerous than what they're rolling out now which is just 3 or 4 puck retrieval guys with Kylington or Hanifin.


I think you severely underrate how much of a difference playing with Spurgeon, Zuccarello, JEE, and Kaprizov makes over Hanifin, Kylington, Backlund, and Lucic/Coleman.

Like this whole conversation of "5v5 defensive game is irrelevant but think about the 30 on 2nd PP unit" is just loony to me. I'm not wasting any more time
26 janv. 2022 à 13 h 0
#29
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Quoting: Ledge_And_Dairy
I think you severely underrate how much of a difference playing with Spurgeon, Zuccarello, JEE, and Kaprizov makes over Hanifin, Kylington, Backlund, and Lucic/Coleman.

Like this whole conversation of "5v5 defensive game is irrelevant but think about the 30 on 2nd PP unit" is just loony to me. I'm not wasting any more time


Your argument was that Mangiapane is better, it's been thrown back by nearly every person here. I am sure that everyone else is wrong though. Have a good one.
26 janv. 2022 à 13 h 2
#30
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Quoting: EccE
Yes. He does. We are looking at overall stats because we want to see who brings more to the table overall, not compared to role. And also yes, offense is more valued since it is harder to find. The only way you can get good offence without overpaying significantly is through the draft. Defense can be acquired via free agency. Stone is good at both, but I think he is overrated. That's a discussion for another day, though.


Ok would you rather have Tyson Barrie or Chris Tanev? Barrie lead the league in points from defensemen last year, Tanev lead the league in defensive WAR last year. Both make roughly around the same amount of money
26 janv. 2022 à 13 h 3
#31
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Quoting: Ledge_And_Dairy
Ok would you rather have Tyson Barrie or Chris Tanev? Barrie lead the league in points from defensemen last year, Tanev lead the league in defensive WAR last year. Both make roughly around the same amount of money


What on earth.. did you just try flip your argument of D is more valuable to the defensive position?!? Take your licks and move on. It's okay to be wrong.
26 janv. 2022 à 13 h 4
#32
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Quoting: yycofred
Your argument was that Mangiapane is better, it's been thrown back by nearly every person here. I am sure that everyone else is wrong though. Have a good one.


"every person" counts as you and EccE?
26 janv. 2022 à 13 h 5
#33
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Quoting: yycofred
What on earth.. did you just try flip your argument of D is more valuable to the defensive position?!? Take your licks and move on. It's okay to be wrong.


Ok prime Bergeron or Prime Seguin?
26 janv. 2022 à 13 h 13
#34
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Quoting: Ledge_And_Dairy
Ok prime Bergeron or Prime Seguin?


Your arguments have been Stone and Bergeron... both putting up over 60 points most years clearly getting paid for their offensive abilities. Bergeron and Seguin have nearly identical PPG, Mangiapane is below a half point per game, Fiala is 0.60. It's not even close to the same argument. You're grasping big time.
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26 janv. 2022 à 13 h 20
#35
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Quoting: yycofred
Your arguments have been Stone and Bergeron... both putting up over 60 points most years clearly getting paid for their offensive abilities. Bergeron and Seguin have nearly identical PPG, Mangiapane is below a half point per game, Fiala is 0.60. It's not even close to the same argument. You're grasping big time.


Im not grasping, you just have a clear lack of understanding at how valuable defensive game is. I am using players that you probably know to make it easier for you. What about Monahan vs Hertl. For the majority of Monahan's career (except when injured) he has outproduced Hertl even when Hertl's team was a much better contender.
26 janv. 2022 à 13 h 27
#36
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Quoting: Ledge_And_Dairy
Im not grasping, you just have a clear lack of understanding at how valuable defensive game is. I am using players that you probably know to make it easier for you. What about Monahan vs Hertl. For the majority of Monahan's career (except when injured) he has outproduced Hertl even when Hertl's team was a much better contender.


Hahaha I have forgotten more than you know.. I worked in hockey longer than you have been a fan. If you want to compare, compare Fiala and Mangiapane as opposed to trying to stray from the point with comparisons that you want to squeeze into your narrative that just haven't worked. You regurgitate advanced stats that you don't really get because they've become gospel for a very young very loud portion of the Flames fan base. I would guess you read the Win Column stuff too! You're just fooling around now trying to make a point that isn't there. Once again, have a good one fella!
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26 janv. 2022 à 13 h 30
#37
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Quoting: Ledge_And_Dairy
Ok would you rather have Tyson Barrie or Chris Tanev? Barrie lead the league in points from defensemen last year, Tanev lead the league in defensive WAR last year. Both make roughly around the same amount of money


If I was looking for a D I'd rather have Tanev. He is a better defenseman. Defense is more important when valuing DEFENSEmen... But @yycofred already explained this in detail so we don't need to do that all over again...
26 janv. 2022 à 13 h 30
#38
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Quoting: yycofred
Hahaha I have forgotten more than you know.. I worked in hockey longer than you have been a fan. If you want to compare, compare Fiala and Mangiapane as opposed to trying to stray from the point with comparisons that you want to squeeze into your narrative that just haven't worked. You regurgitate advanced stats that you don't really get because they've become gospel for a very young very loud portion of the Flames fan base. I would guess you read the Win Column stuff too! You're just fooling around now trying to make a point that isn't there. Once again, have a good one fella!


Thats cute, you think I don't know what Im talking about. I regurgitate advanced stats? Like what? I actually do my homework, unlike you who just takes a look at points.
26 janv. 2022 à 13 h 35
#39
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Quoting: Ledge_And_Dairy
Thats cute, you think I don't know what Im talking about. I regurgitate advanced stats? Like what? I actually do my homework, unlike you who just takes a look at points.


That's not true at all. I don't have to think that, you project it with insecurity and condescending arguments! If you were as good as you think you were you'd be in hockey ops somewhere, I got into it cause I played and coached, plenty of strong analytical people have come into the industry, why not you? You don't do homework you punch two names into a system made by someone else and say "look at all the homework I did". That's literally regurgitating. I've given you so many different stats in this thread alone but you say that all I have given is points.. clearly you've selectively read what I and others have said. Here's actual homework, go read this again, find out where you were wrong so you can be better going forward!
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26 janv. 2022 à 13 h 46
#40
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Quoting: yycofred
That's not true at all. I don't have to think that, you project it with insecurity and condescending arguments! If you were as good as you think you were you'd be in hockey ops somewhere, I got into it cause I played and coached, plenty of strong analytical people have come into the industry, why not you? You don't do homework you punch two names into a system made by someone else and say "look at all the homework I did". That's literally regurgitating. I've given you so many different stats in this thread alone but you say that all I have given is points.. clearly you've selectively read what I and others have said. Here's actual homework, go read this again, find out where you were wrong so you can be better going forward!


You've provided stats? Thats funny. All you did was compare their PP and told me how insignificant defensive hockey is. Maybe why Connor McDavid and the Oilers are 1st place in the league... oh wait
26 janv. 2022 à 13 h 58
#41
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Quoting: Ledge_And_Dairy
You've provided stats? Thats funny. All you did was compare their PP and told me how insignificant defensive hockey is. Maybe why Connor McDavid and the Oilers are 1st place in the league... oh wait


See now you're getting pissy and ignoring facts on purpose, you can find plenty of stats throughout here that don't have to do with points or powerplay. Like I said though, go back, do your homework and try improve yourself for the next time.

I am curious now though, if you're as good as you think you are why aren't you in the industry somewhere. There are probably a hundred teams in Alberta alone that have scouting, hockey ops etc. Seems to me that regurgitated stats aren't getting you in those positions.
26 janv. 2022 à 14 h 0
#42
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Quoting: yycofred
See now you're getting pissy and ignoring facts on purpose, you can find plenty of stats throughout here that don't have to do with points or powerplay. Like I said though, go back, do your homework and try improve yourself for the next time.

I am curious now though, if you're as good as you think you are why aren't you in the industry somewhere. There are probably a hundred teams in Alberta alone that have scouting, hockey ops etc. Seems to me that regurgitated stats aren't getting you in those positions.


I study sports journalism in the GTA so no getting an ops job in Alberta is not something I am looking into at all right now.
26 janv. 2022 à 14 h 5
#43
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Quoting: Ledge_And_Dairy
I study sports journalism in the GTA so no getting an ops job in Alberta is not something I am looking into at all right now.


There are probably a hundred teams in the GTA alone.. location wasn't really the point of that comment.. more or less, why not you? This explains so so much though... thank you for that! All the clarity I need. This has literally lightened my perspective and reduced my expectations for you going forward. It used to be so frustrating to see your comments on this site but this helps a ton!
26 janv. 2022 à 14 h 10
#44
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Quoting: yycofred
There are probably a hundred teams in the GTA alone.. location wasn't really the point of that comment.. more or less, why not you? This explains so so much though... thank you for that! All the clarity I need. This has literally lightened my perspective and reduced my expectations for you going forward. It used to be so frustrating to see your comments on this site but this helps a ton!


Uh sure? Weird insult
26 janv. 2022 à 14 h 12
#45
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Quoting: Ledge_And_Dairy
Uh sure? Weird insult


Not an insult. An insult would be making fun of a dude with a name like Boyan. This is just simply just resetting my expectations when I see your posts going forward! It was helpful. Let me know how your Fiala Mangiapane poll turns out! for the sake of fairness I didn't vote!
26 janv. 2022 à 15 h 1
#46
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Quoting: yycofred
Not an insult. An insult would be making fun of a dude with a name like Boyan. This is just simply just resetting my expectations when I see your posts going forward! It was helpful. Let me know how your Fiala Mangiapane poll turns out! for the sake of fairness I didn't vote!


Unfortunately this site is terrible for Polls since posts just get buried so quickly, 13 votes is definitely not a good sample size. Maybe I'll try HF boards. Really not a fan of that site though
 
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