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What do we think

Créé par: Leafsleaks123
Équipe: 2021-22 Maple Leafs de Toronto
Date de création initiale: 22 janv. 2022
Publié: 22 janv. 2022
Mode - plafond salarial: Basique
Transactions
1.
TOR
  1. Bastian, Nathan
  2. Severson, Damon (2 000 000 $ retained)
Détails additionnels:
If NJ doesn’t want to retain 2 mil then a team like Buffalo could retain 1 mil along with NJ
NJD
  1. Der-Arguchintsev, Semyon
  2. Hollowell, Mac
  3. Choix de 1e ronde en 2022 (TOR)
2.
TOR
    1 mil of retained salary
    BUF
    1. Choix de 3e ronde en 2023 (TOR)
    3.
    TOR
    1. Choix de 4e ronde en 2023 (OTT)
    OTT
    1. Holl, Justin
    Détails additionnels:
    If Zaitsev can play top 4 for OTT, than anyone can
    4.
    TOR
    ARI
    1. Anderson, Joey
    2. Ritchie, Nick
    3. Choix de 4e ronde en 2023 (TOR)
    Détails additionnels:
    Ritchie still can provide some value in the right situation while Anderson gives the yotes a future solid third liner and there’s a 4th as a sweetener
    Transactions impliquant une retenue de salaire
    Repêchage1e ronde2e ronde3e ronde4e ronde5e ronde6e ronde7e ronde
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    2024
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    TAILLE DE LA FORMATIONPLAFOND SALARIALCAP HITEXCÉDENTS Info-bulleBONISESPACE SOUS LE PLAFOND SALARIAL
    2281 500 000 $80 774 782 $0 $400 000 $725 218 $
    Ailier gaucheCentreAilier droit
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    AG
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    AD
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    3 500 000 $3 500 000 $
    AG, C, AD
    UFA - 2
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    11 000 000 $11 000 000 $
    C, AG
    NMC
    UFA - 4
    Logo de Maple Leafs de Toronto
    6 962 366 $6 962 366 $
    AD
    UFA - 3
    Logo de Maple Leafs de Toronto
    1 645 000 $1 645 000 $
    AG, AD
    UFA - 1
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    1 250 000 $1 250 000 $
    AD
    UFA - 1
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    1 250 000 $1 250 000 $
    AD, AG
    UFA - 1
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    1 500 000 $1 500 000 $
    C
    UFA - 2
    Logo de Maple Leafs de Toronto
    900 000 $900 000 $
    AD, AG
    NTC
    UFA - 2
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    750 000 $750 000 $
    C, AD
    UFA - 1
    Logo de Devils du New Jersey
    825 000 $825 000 $
    AD
    UFA - 2
    Défenseur gaucherDéfenseur droitierGardien de but
    Logo de Maple Leafs de Toronto
    5 000 000 $5 000 000 $
    DG
    NMC
    UFA - 1
    Logo de Maple Leafs de Toronto
    5 000 000 $5 000 000 $
    DG/DD
    NTC
    UFA - 3
    Logo de Maple Leafs de Toronto
    3 800 000 $3 800 000 $
    G
    M-NTC
    UFA - 3
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    5 625 000 $5 625 000 $
    DG
    NTC
    UFA - 3
    Logo de Devils du New Jersey
    2 166 666 $2 166 666 $
    DD
    UFA - 2
    Logo de Maple Leafs de Toronto
    1 650 000 $1 650 000 $
    G
    UFA - 1
    Logo de Maple Leafs de Toronto
    894 167 $894 167 $
    DG
    UFA - 1
    Logo de Maple Leafs de Toronto
    863 333 $863 333 $ (Bonis de performance400 000 $$400K)
    DD
    RFA - 1
    Logo de Maple Leafs de Toronto
    1 500 000 $1 500 000 $
    DG/DD
    UFA - 2

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    22 janv. 2022 à 0 h 47
    #1
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    Don’t think Ottawa has any interest in Holl or helping the Leafs
    22 janv. 2022 à 1 h 37
    #2
    Speak of the Devil
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    Devils decline. Not worth it for them
    22 janv. 2022 à 2 h 6
    #3
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    feel like Holl is the kinda guy the sens would grab off waivers, but there's really no point in giving up a pick for him just to help you out of some cap issues and allow you to get better
    22 janv. 2022 à 6 h 52
    #4
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    Modifié 22 janv. 2022 à 14 h 11
    Severson at 48% retained ($2m), plus Bastian
    -- one of: Knies, Amirov, Robertson
    -- one of: Liljegren, Niemela
    -- one of: 2022 1st round pick, 2023 1st round pick
    -- one of: 2022 2nd round pick, 2023 2nd round pick
    -- if you add Holl, subtract a pick; if you add Ritchie, add a pick

    So some examples of likely asks from NJD
    -1) Knies, Liljegren, 2022 1st, 2023 3rd
    -2) Holl, Niemela, Robertson, 2022 1st, 2023 6th
    -3) Ritchie, Amirov, Niemela, 2022 1st, 2023 2nd
    -4) Holl, Niemela, 2022 1st, 2023 2nd, 2023 3rd
    -5) Dermott, Amirov, Niemela, 2022 1st, 2023 4th

    Not going to be cheap

    EDIT: I took out examples with Nylander and Brodie. I had included them to have one-for-one options. But people got fixated on that part of the post.
    22 janv. 2022 à 8 h 23
    #5
    Banni
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    Quoting: NHLfan10506
    Severson at 48% retained ($2m), plus Bastian
    -- one of: Knies, Amirov, Robertson
    -- one of: Liljegren, Niemela
    -- one of: 2022 1st round pick, 2023 1st round pick
    -- one of: 2022 2nd round pick, 2023 2nd round pick
    -- if you add Holl, subtract a pick; if you add Ritchie, add a pick

    So some examples of likely asks from NJD
    -1) Knies, Liljegren, 2022 1st, 2023 3rd
    -2) Holl, Niemela, Robertson, 2022 1st, 2023 6th
    -3) Nylander
    -4) Ritchie, Amirov, Niemela, 2022 1st, 2023 2nd
    -5) Holl, Niemela, 2022 1st, 2023 2nd, 2023 3rd
    -3) Brodie
    -4) Dermott, Amirov, Niemela, 2022 1st, 2023 4th

    Not going to be cheap


    Oh really, a 2nd pair defenceman is worth a point a game player on pace for 30+ goals and 82 points. You are just out to lunch. There are more sellers than buyers this year and want to flat out win a massive haul. You are nuts.
    22 janv. 2022 à 8 h 25
    #6
    Banni
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    Quoting: Devil1122
    Devils decline. Not worth it for them


    Yup your other Devil fan friends are asking for the equivalent of 3 1st and two roster players for a 2nd pair defenceman. It's not going to be worth it for the Devil's unless they get a Norris trophy winner calibre return. Because living in a dream world is fun.
    22 janv. 2022 à 8 h 37
    #7
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    Quoting: PleaseBanMeForMyOwnGood
    Yup your other Devil fan friends are asking for the equivalent of 3 1st and two roster players for a 2nd pair defenceman. It's not going to be worth it for the Devil's unless they get a Norris trophy winner calibre return. Because living in a dream world is fun.


    In reality though, it'll take an overpay to get him. They really don't need to move him.
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    22 janv. 2022 à 8 h 46
    #8
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    Quoting: Barilko14
    In reality though, it'll take an overpay to get him. They really don't need to move him.


    Then don't trade for him. The one guy on this thread has literally suggested it would take Nylander for this 2nd pair defender. This is just ridiculous
    22 janv. 2022 à 9 h 15
    #9
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    As to the Sabres retaining. keep the third send Holl, Ritchie, Anderson, and 2023 4th round pick (TOR).
    Holl would a great partner for Dahlin, while Ritchie and Anderson could play in Rochester.
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    22 janv. 2022 à 10 h 0
    #10
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    Quoting: PleaseBanMeForMyOwnGood
    Then don't trade for him. The one guy on this thread has literally suggested it would take Nylander for this 2nd pair defender. This is just ridiculous


    Yeah, they were certainly getting carried away, but his price will likely be 1 notch above what would be considered fair.

    If the cost for Klingberg was simular to Severson, I'd easily go for Severson.
    22 janv. 2022 à 10 h 4
    #11
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    Quoting: Barilko14
    Yeah, they were certainly getting carried away, but his price will likely be 1 notch above what would be considered fair.

    If the cost for Klingberg was simular to Severson, I'd easily go for Severson.


    I would get him to. For a fair price and what people are saying on here is not fair.
    22 janv. 2022 à 10 h 57
    #12
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    Quoting: PleaseBanMeForMyOwnGood
    I would get him to. For a fair price and what people are saying on here is not fair.


    That poster has probably seen 1000 proposals of Holl plus a 3rd, so likely the reason they are exaggerating his cost too far the other way.
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    22 janv. 2022 à 11 h 20
    #13
    Banni
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    Quoting: Barilko14
    That poster has probably seen 1000 proposals of Holl plus a 3rd, so likely the reason they are exaggerating his cost too far the other way.


    It's just the common thought on this site, everyone costs the leafs immense capital because everyone else says the same thing. He's just a bias homer.
    22 janv. 2022 à 11 h 52
    #14
    Speak of the Devil
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    Quoting: PleaseBanMeForMyOwnGood
    Yup your other Devil fan friends are asking for the equivalent of 3 1st and two roster players for a 2nd pair defenceman. It's not going to be worth it for the Devil's unless they get a Norris trophy winner calibre return. Because living in a dream world is fun.


    You seem salty
    There’s a difference between fair and what the Devils would want if they traded Severson. 1st + prospect is FAIR value for Severson. But the Devils have no interest or need to move Severson. Therefore it would take an overpayment for the Devils to trade him
    22 janv. 2022 à 12 h 4
    #15
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    Quoting: Devil1122
    You seem salty
    There’s a difference between fair and what the Devils would want if they traded Severson. 1st + prospect is FAIR value for Severson. But the Devils have no interest or need to move Severson. Therefore it would take an overpayment for the Devils to trade him


    A first and Robertson is fair. If you either take Ritchie or retain half, then yeah I believe you should get more. Let's say a 1st, Robertson and a 2nd for Severson at 50%
    22 janv. 2022 à 12 h 58
    #16
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    Quoting: NHLfan10506
    Severson at 48% retained ($2m), plus Bastian
    -- one of: Knies, Amirov, Robertson
    -- one of: Liljegren, Niemela
    -- one of: 2022 1st round pick, 2023 1st round pick
    -- one of: 2022 2nd round pick, 2023 2nd round pick
    -- if you add Holl, subtract a pick; if you add Ritchie, add a pick

    So some examples of likely asks from NJD
    -1) Knies, Liljegren, 2022 1st, 2023 3rd
    -2) Holl, Niemela, Robertson, 2022 1st, 2023 6th
    -3) Nylander
    -4) Ritchie, Amirov, Niemela, 2022 1st, 2023 2nd
    -5) Holl, Niemela, 2022 1st, 2023 2nd, 2023 3rd
    -3) Brodie
    -4) Dermott, Amirov, Niemela, 2022 1st, 2023 4th

    Not going to be cheap


    Interesting… the first thing I’d like to point out is Bastian was on waivers not long ago, he’s not worth more than a 4th. Also the Devils are only retaining 1 mil in this scenario. Obviously all of those trade proposals are outrageous and you know it. I’ve seen some devils fans saying you take a first for Severson and run and others are like you… The way I see it, is Severson’s value will never be higher rn and I doubt the devils make the playoffs this year or next (metro is too strong) so a first and two decent prospects is IMO a decent haul, but I can understand you overvaluing a guy who’s been there for so long. I think his value is at best on par with Muzzins (top 4 D making 4 mil with 2 years left) and Muzzin got a package similar to what I think the leafs should be offering
    22 janv. 2022 à 13 h 38
    #17
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    Quoting: Leafsleaks123
    Interesting… the first thing I’d like to point out is Bastian was on waivers not long ago, he’s not worth more than a 4th. Also the Devils are only retaining 1 mil in this scenario. Obviously all of those trade proposals are outrageous and you know it. I’ve seen some devils fans saying you take a first for Severson and run and others are like you… The way I see it, is Severson’s value will never be higher rn and I doubt the devils make the playoffs this year or next (metro is too strong) so a first and two decent prospects is IMO a decent haul, but I can understand you overvaluing a guy who’s been there for so long. I think his value is at best on par with Muzzins (top 4 D making 4 mil with 2 years left) and Muzzin got a package similar to what I think the leafs should be offering


    SDA and Hollowell are dime a dozen prospects though. At minimum both of the prospects has to be Hirvonen level, as that hopefully would be a late 1st.
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    22 janv. 2022 à 13 h 50
    #18
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    Quoting: Leafsleaks123
    a first and two decent prospects is IMO a decent haul


    Agree with that. Problem is Holloway and SDA aren't really decent prospects. They are AHL/depth guys.

    Knies, Niemela, Amirov, Robertson are decent prospects.

    Quoting: Leafsleaks123
    Muzzin got a package similar to what I think the leafs should be offering


    Also agree. But that is not what is being offered here.

    Leafs pipeline in 2018 was ranked higher than it is today. The got Muzzin with two top-5 prospects then. And that is what NJD would ask for now.

    Look at this post.
    22 janv. 2022 à 14 h 21
    #19
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    Quoting: PleaseBanMeForMyOwnGood
    Then don't trade for him. The one guy on this thread has literally suggested it would take Nylander for this 2nd pair defender. This is just ridiculous


    No I did not say "it would take Nylander". I listed Nylander on a list since I wanted to included some one-for-ones. There are many realistic options out there.

    But Devils fans keep seeing the same types of lowballs (ie, Holl+AHLer+pick for Severson retained at 50%). And no Leaf fans has articulated why any of these would help the Devils.

    Quoting: PleaseBanMeForMyOwnGood
    It's just the common thought on this site, everyone costs the leafs immense capital because everyone else says the same thing. He's just a bias homer.


    Maybe its not everyone else. Maybe its too many of these Leaf fans are reading the same Hockey Writer articles ("Trade targets on the Devils").

    Leafland has been posting Severson deals since before they signed Brodie. Almost daily.
    22 janv. 2022 à 14 h 22
    #20
    Banni
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    Quoting: NHLfan10506
    No I did not say "it would take Nylander". I listed Nylander on a list since I wanted to included some one-for-ones. There are many realistic options out there.

    But Devils fans keep seeing the same types of lowballs (ie, Holl+AHLer+pick for Severson retained at 50%). And no Leaf fans has articulated why any of these would help the Devils.



    Maybe its not everyone else. Maybe its too many of these Leaf fans are reading the same Hockey Writer articles ("Trade targets on the Devils").

    Leafland has been posting Severson deals since before they signed Brodie. Almost daily.


    So you combat that by being as ridiculous? Good policy
    22 janv. 2022 à 14 h 29
    #21
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    Quoting: Devil1122
    You seem salty
    There’s a difference between fair and what the Devils would want if they traded Severson. 1st + prospect is FAIR value for Severson. But the Devils have no interest or need to move Severson. Therefore it would take an overpayment for the Devils to trade him


    Quoting: PleaseBanMeForMyOwnGood
    A first and Robertson is fair. If you either take Ritchie or retain half, then yeah I believe you should get more. Let's say a 1st, Robertson and a 2nd for Severson at 50%


    Robertson+1st for Severson isn't a terrible offer if we were shopping him around. But we are not. So leafs would have to add a significant piece to convince them otherwise. Holl, Ritchie, etc would not be that significant piece. Niemela, Amirov, Knies probably would be.
    22 janv. 2022 à 14 h 31
    #22
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    Quoting: NHLfan10506
    Agree with that. Problem is Holloway and SDA aren't really decent prospects. They are AHL/depth guys.

    That’s a fair point. I think at least one of those guys pan out but they aren’t great

    Knies, Niemela, Amirov, Robertson are decent prospects.

    I think all 4 of these guys are future top 4/top 6 guys (odds are one of them doesn’t pan out but all of them project well) and I would put them a tier above Sean Durzi and Carl grundstrom who never looked like and never will be more then a PP specialist and a 4th liner. Maybe Hirvonen and Abramov/abruzzese would be more reasonable
    22 janv. 2022 à 14 h 32
    #23
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    Quoting: PleaseBanMeForMyOwnGood
    So you combat that by being as ridiculous? Good policy


    I think I have been very reasonable, despite all the name-calling and insults.
    22 janv. 2022 à 14 h 35
    #24
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    Quoting: Leafsleaks123
    I think all 4 of these guys are future top 4/top 6 guys (odds are one of them doesn’t pan out but all of them project well) and I would put them a tier above Sean Durzi and Carl grundstrom who never looked like and never will be more then a PP specialist and a 4th liner. Maybe Hirvonen and Abramov/abruzzese would be more reasonable


    Future top-4 or top-6 guys are what we would want.
    22 janv. 2022 à 14 h 37
    #25
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    Quoting: NHLfan10506
    Future top-4 or top-6 guys are what we would want.


    That’s more than what the Kings got for Muzzin, also a first is the asset that you could turn into a top-4 or top-6 guy
     
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