Forums/Armchair-GM

All in Deadline - Rough draft

Créé par: Random2152
Date de création initiale: 20 janv. 2022
Publié: 20 janv. 2022
Équipe: 2021-22 Maple Leafs de Toronto
Explications
Point is sell the future to win now
Signatures de joueurs autonomes
CRÉÉANSCAP HIT
Severson, Damon21 041 667 $
Transactions
1.
TOR
  1. Severson, Damon (2 083 333 $ retained)
NJD
  1. Holl, Justin
  2. Niemelä, Topi [Liste de réserve]
  3. 2022 1e round pick (TOR)
  4. 2023 3e round pick (TOR)
Détails additionnels:
3rd is for double retain
2.
TOR
    BUF
    1. Severson, Damon
    Détails additionnels:
    Double Retain
    3.
    TOR
    1. Lindholm, Hampus (2 602 778 $ retained)
    ANA
    1. Robertson, Nicholas
    2. Ritchie, Nick
    Transactions impliquant une retenue de salaire
    • Phil Kessel: 1 200 000 $ (15%)
    ANNÉE DE REPÊCHAGERONDE 1RONDE 2RONDE 3RONDE 4RONDE 5RONDE 6RONDE 7
    2022
    Logo de TOR
    Logo de TOR
    2023
    Logo de TOR
    Logo de TOR
    Logo de TOR
    Logo de TOR
    Logo de TOR
    2024
    Logo de TOR
    Logo de TOR
    Logo de TOR
    Logo de TOR
    Logo de TOR
    Logo de TOR
    Logo de TOR
    TAILLE DE LA FORMATIONPLAFOND SALARIALCAP HITEXCÉDENTS Info-bulleBONISESPACE SOUS LE PLAFOND SALARIAL
    2281 500 000 $78 824 783 $0 $400 000 $2 675 217 $
    Ailier gaucheCentreAilier droit
    Logo de TOR
    Bunting, Michael
    950 000 $
    AG
    UFA - 2
    Logo de TOR
    Matthews, Auston
    11 640 250 $
    C
    UFA - 3
    Logo de TOR
    Marner, Mitchell
    10 903 000 $
    AD
    UFA - 4
    Logo de TOR
    Kerfoot, Alexander
    3 500 000 $
    AG, C
    UFA - 2
    Logo de TOR
    Tavares, John
    11 000 000 $
    C
    NMC
    UFA - 4
    Logo de TOR
    Nylander, William
    6 962 366 $
    AD, AG
    UFA - 3
    Logo de TOR
    Mikheyev, Ilya
    1 645 000 $
    AG, AD
    UFA - 1
    Logo de TOR
    Kämpf, David
    1 500 000 $
    C, AD
    UFA - 2
    Logo de TOR
    Kase, Ondrej
    1 250 000 $
    AD
    RFA - 1
    Logo de TOR
    Engvall, Pierre
    1 250 000 $
    AG, C
    RFA - 1
    Logo de TOR
    Spezza, Jason
    750 000 $
    C, AD
    UFA - 1
    Logo de TOR
    Simmonds, Wayne
    900 000 $
    AD, AG
    NTC
    UFA - 2
    Défenseur gaucherDéfenseur droitierGardien de but
    Logo de TOR
    Rielly, Morgan
    5 000 000 $
    DG
    NMC
    UFA - 1
    Logo de TOR
    Brodie, TJ
    5 000 000 $
    DG/DD
    NTC
    UFA - 3
    Logo de TOR
    Campbell, Jack
    1 650 000 $
    G
    UFA - 1
    Logo de ANA
    Lindholm, Hampus
    0 $
    DG
    UFA - 1
    Severson, Damon
    1 041 667 $
    Logo de TOR
    Mrázek, Petr
    3 800 000 $
    G
    NTC
    UFA - 3
    Logo de TOR
    Muzzin, Jake
    5 625 000 $
    DG
    NTC
    UFA - 3
    Logo de TOR
    Sandin, Rasmus
    894 167 $
    DG/DD
    RFA - 1
    Laissés de côtéListe des blessés (IR)Liste des blessés à long terme (LTIR)
    Logo de TOR
    Liljegren, Timothy
    863 333 $
    DD
    RFA - 1
    Logo de TOR
    Dermott, Travis
    1 500 000 $
    DG/DD
    RFA - 2

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    20 janv. à 15 h 15
    #1
    Leafs suck
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    Way too much for severson and leafs say no to lindholm trade
    20 janv. à 15 h 16
    #2
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    Props for including Niemela.
    Its a reasonable offer
    20 janv. à 15 h 20
    #3
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    Quoting: NHLfan10506
    Props for including Niemela.
    Its a reasonable offer


    If I am being 100% honest, it is more than likely the high end of what you could expect. If you move him you may need to be prepared for the next level of prospect below him.
    20 janv. à 15 h 24
    #4
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    Quoting: Random2152
    If I am being 100% honest, it is more than likely the high end of what you could expect. If you move him you may need to be prepared for the next level of prospect below him.


    Leafs gave up their #3 and #5 prospects along with a 1st for Muzzin a few years ago.
    It is not unreasonable for Devils to ask for two top-5 guys here.

    And while we are being honest, I don't think the Devils have any intention of trading him.
    20 janv. à 15 h 26
    #5
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    Quoting: NHLfan10506
    Leafs gave up their #3 and #5 prospects along with a 1st for Muzzin a few years ago.
    It is not unreasonable for Devils to ask for two top-5 guys here.

    And while we are being honest, I don't think the Devils have any intention of trading him.


    so then instead of crying about offers you see on this website everyday, just say that

    the 3 and 5 guys now are better than the 3 and 5 guys then so stop using that as a comparable
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    20 janv. à 15 h 27
    #6
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    Quoting: NHLfan10506
    Leafs gave up their #3 and #5 prospects along with a 1st for Muzzin a few years ago.
    It is not unreasonable for Devils to ask for two top-5 guys here.

    And while we are being honest, I don't think the Devils have any intention of trading him.


    I'd hardly call Grundstrom and Durzi our 3 and 5 prospects. More importantly They would both have been in that next level down below the Niemela tier of prospect so...
    20 janv. à 15 h 29
    #7
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    Quoting: vr1995
    so then instead of crying about offers you see on this website everyday, just say that

    the 3 and 5 guys now are better than the 3 and 5 guys then so stop using that as a comparable


    Its the first time I used that as a comparable.
    I just read the article that ranked them #3 and #5 just minutes ago.

    (Here is the the link to 2018 Leaf prospect ranking)
    20 janv. à 15 h 31
    #8
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    Quoting: NHLfan10506
    Its the first time I used that as a comparable.
    I just read the article that ranked them #3 and #5 just minutes ago.

    (Here is the the link to 2018 Leaf prospect ranking)


    This is much more a condemnation of the Hunter years than a boon to your argument
    20 janv. à 15 h 32
    #9
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    Quoting: NHLfan10506
    Its the first time I used that as a comparable.
    I just read the article that ranked them #3 and #5 just minutes ago.

    (Here is the the link to 2018 Leaf prospect ranking)


    Quoting: NHLfan10506
    Yeah, the price hasn't changed.



    This is not far off.

    Muzzin was traded in early 2019 for the Leafs 1st, the Leafs most recent 2nd round pick and the Leafs 2nd rounder from 2 years prior.

    2019 1st round pick (TOR)
    Sean Durzi (2018 2nd round pick)
    Carl Grundstrom (2016 2nd round pick)

    So apples-to-apples would be:

    2022 1st round pick (TOR)
    Matthew Knies (2021 2nd round pick)
    Nick Robertson (2019 2nd round pick)

    Yet...Leafs fans keep sending Holl + AHLer + mid-round pick.

    (also, there is a premium paid for RHD...see...well, any RHD deal over past couple of years)

    this was you the other day, youre making the same type of comparable
    20 janv. à 15 h 44
    #10
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    Quoting: Random2152
    I'd hardly call Grundstrom and Durzi our 3 and 5 prospects. More importantly They would both have been in that next level down below the Niemela tier of prospect so...


    I was going by the 2018 ranking Scott Wheeler of the Athletic.

    He had...

    1. Sandin
    2. Liljegren
    3. Grundstrom
    4. Bracco
    5. Durzi

    And I fully understand 3/5 then =/= 3/5 now. I am saying that to refute claims that they were nothing prospects by the time the trade occurred.
    20 janv. à 15 h 47
    #11
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    Quoting: NHLfan10506
    I was going by the 2018 ranking Scott Wheeler of the Athletic.

    He had...

    1. Sandin
    2. Liljegren
    3. Grundstrom
    4. Bracco
    5. Durzi

    And I fully understand 3/5 then =/= 3/5 now. I am saying that to refute claims that they were nothing prospects by the time the trade occurred.


    They were solid B prospects at the time. More than nothing, and they had some upside but not anything like you're implying. A current comparable would be closer to Hirvonen and Abruzzese
    20 janv. à 16 h 2
    #12
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    Quoting: vr1995
    Quoting: NHLfan10506
    Yeah, the price hasn't changed.



    This is not far off.

    Muzzin was traded in early 2019 for the Leafs 1st, the Leafs most recent 2nd round pick and the Leafs 2nd rounder from 2 years prior.

    2019 1st round pick (TOR)
    Sean Durzi (2018 2nd round pick)
    Carl Grundstrom (2016 2nd round pick)

    So apples-to-apples would be:

    2022 1st round pick (TOR)
    Matthew Knies (2021 2nd round pick)
    Nick Robertson (2019 2nd round pick)

    Yet...Leafs fans keep sending Holl + AHLer + mid-round pick.

    (also, there is a premium paid for RHD...see...well, any RHD deal over past couple of years)

    this was you the other day, youre making the same type of comparable


    Emphasis on the bolded. I only knew they were two recent 2nd rounders. Saw the 2018 ranking today.

    I don't think any of them crack the top level of prospects in NHL. Maybe Niemela gets there, considering his trajectory.

    Here is how I ranked the Leafs top-5 prospects recently.

    46. Nick Robertson
    59. Topi Niemela
    75. Rodion Amirov
    86. Matthew Knies
    93. Veeti Miettinen

    And for Devils...

    7. Luke Hughes
    8. Alexander Holtz
    39. Shakir Mukhamadullin
    44. Arseni Gritsyuk
    89. Nolan Foote

    Not asking for elite guys here
    20 janv. à 16 h 10
    #13
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    Quoting: Random2152
    They were solid B prospects at the time. More than nothing, and they had some upside but not anything like you're implying. A current comparable would be closer to Hirvonen and Abruzzese


    What am I implying? B-level prospect, using central scouting definition, is a 2nd or 3rd round player. That is pretty much what Robertson and Knies are now.

    The Hockey News said that they Leafs had the #1 pipeline in 2018. But #19 today. Corey Pronman said #13 then, #21 now. Elite Prospects says #14 then, #15 now.

    Hard to imagine the pipeline has improved as much as some claim here to suggest that Knies, Niemela, etc are significantly better that previous names on those lists.
    20 janv. à 16 h 13
    #14
    First NY Then LA
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    Not interested in trading Lindholm for that picayune return. Ritchie isn't worth the retention -- we should know -- and Robertson can't lace Lindholm's skates.
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    20 janv. à 16 h 15
    #15
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    Modifié 20 janv. à 16 h 30
    Quoting: NHLfan10506
    What am I implying? B-level prospect, using central scouting definition, is a 2nd or 3rd round player. That is pretty much what Robertson and Knies are now.


    And right here is your issue. Where someone was drafted is not related to the level of prospect they are. Debrincat for example, despite being a 2nd rounder was an A prospect. Knies and Robertson are there as well. Mook despite being a 1st rounder is a B prospect. Guys develop differently and to ignore everything past their draft slot is foolish
    20 janv. à 16 h 24
    #16
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    Quoting: OldNYIfan
    Not interested in trading Lindholm for that picayune return. Ritchie isn't worth the retention -- we should know -- and Robertson can't lace Lindholm's skates.


    What exactly do you think a 2-3 month rental returns?
    20 janv. à 16 h 25
    #17
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    Quoting: NHLfan10506
    Emphasis on the bolded. I only knew they were two recent 2nd rounders. Saw the 2018 ranking today.

    I don't think any of them crack the top level of prospects in NHL. Maybe Niemela gets there, considering his trajectory.

    Here is how I
    ranked the Leafs top-5 prospects recently.

    46. Nick Robertson
    59. Topi Niemela
    75. Rodion Amirov
    86. Matthew Knies
    93. Veeti Miettinen

    And for Devils...

    7. Luke Hughes
    8. Alexander Holtz
    39. Shakir Mukhamadullin
    44. Arseni Gritsyuk
    89. Nolan Foote

    Not asking for elite guys here


    emphasis on the bolded, how you rank the prospects
    20 janv. à 16 h 28
    #18
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    Quoting: NHLfan10506
    What am I implying? B-level prospect, using central scouting definition, is a 2nd or 3rd round player. That is pretty much what Robertson and Knies are now.

    The Hockey News said that they Leafs had the #1 pipeline in 2018. But #19 today. Corey Pronman said #13 then, #21 now. Elite Prospects says #14 then, #15 now.

    Hard to imagine the pipeline has improved as much as some claim here to suggest that Knies, Niemela, etc are significantly better that previous names on those lists.


    bottomline of all these threads, your ask of niemala, knies 1st and 3rd for a top4 d is insane, yeah yeah youve seen some bad offers, but dont complain and then also counter offer something bad
    20 janv. à 16 h 32
    #19
    First NY Then LA
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    Quoting: Random2152
    What exactly do you think a 2-3 month rental returns?


    I recall Nick Foligno getting a first and two fourths from Toronto, and I recall Jean-Pierre Pageau getting a first, second and third from the New York Islanders, and I don't think either had the same value as Hampus Lindholm, but let's assume that they did.
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    20 janv. à 16 h 49
    #20
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    Quoting: OldNYIfan
    I recall Nick Foligno getting a first and two fourths from Toronto, and I recall Jean-Pierre Pageau getting a first, second and third from the New York Islanders, and I don't think either had the same value as Hampus Lindholm, but let's assume that they did.


    Robbie should be valued around that of a late 1st. Retention will be standard due to the entire league being capped out and named piggies tend to hold a bit more value, hence the Ritchie dump. If you are going to get more than offered here, it isn't anything notable.
    20 janv. à 17 h 0
    #21
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    Quoting: Random2152
    And right here is your issue. Where someone was drafted is not related to the level of prospect they are. Debrincat for example, despite being a 2nd rounder was an A prospect. Knies and Robertson are there as well. Mook despite being a 1st rounder is a B prospect. Guys develop differently and to ignore everything past their draft slot is foolish


    When the scouting community uses "A-level" or "B-level" if roughly puts then in a tier relative to their piers. Its pretty normal nomenclature. So an "A-level" guy would be roughly one of the top-30 guys from his age cohort. Where they were actually drafted is insignificant (unless its draft day).

    It comes from the central scouting bureau's listings, but is terminology used post-draft as well.

    In other words, if Robertson's draft were being re-held today, and he were likely to be a 1st rounder, could call him an A-guy.
    20 janv. à 17 h 5
    #22
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    Quoting: vr1995
    emphasis on the bolded, how you rank the prospects


    Feel free to substitute with your own.

    Here is The Athletic (Jan 2022)

    71. Robertson
    89. Niemela
    91. Amirov
    118. Knies
    157. Hirvonen
    20 janv. à 17 h 10
    #23
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    Quoting: vr1995
    bottomline of all these threads, your ask of niemala, knies 1st and 3rd for a top4 d is insane, yeah yeah youve seen some bad offers, but dont complain and then also counter offer something bad


    I believe 2 good prospects and 1st is a fair offer. Just because they are the Leafs top prospects doesn't mean they will be on other teams.
    20 janv. à 17 h 21
    #24
    AntreDiAnaheim
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    Ducks decline
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    20 janv. à 17 h 29
    #25
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    Quoting: NHLfan10506
    I believe 2 good prospects and 1st is a fair offer. Just because they are the Leafs top prospects doesn't mean they will be on other teams.


    its too much end of story, you sound like the people you are complaining about, dont be a hypocrite

    once again didnt say that, just because severson is a top 2 d on the devils doesnt mean he is on other teams, this can go both ways
     
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