I think you're overvaluing your dmen and undervaluing some of your forwards.

I think you can get a 2nd for JVR, especially with that retention and I think you can just make the return for Giroux a 1st, but I think you're attempting to be appease a little, so I get it.

I don't think Risto has done much to show he was worth what you guys gave up and honestly I can't see him going for more than a 3rd. Braun is definitely a better dman IMO, so you may be able to get a 2nd, but I still think he's also about a 3rd.

EDIT: Then again, if Chiarot truly does go a first then it's pretty hard for me argue lol

Fair assessment but there were said to be around 3-5 teams in on Risto last year so I think a team looking for a big bruiser in the playoffs would pay a 2nd. Fletcher was an absolute idiot for paying a 1st+

I think there are certain types of players that are just hard to gauge at this point as far as their return. There's going to be less sellers than normal because of how things are panning out in the West, so I don't know if that will give leverage to the buyers or have no real effect.

Braun and Risto are respectively washed up and never been good. Braun 3 seasons ago would be a great pickup for the playoffs. Now he would be a good pickup for a 7th defenceman. Nothing more. Risto sucks, he's been bad for his whole career. Was once a decent PP guy but was horrible in his own end. Now hes just bad period. I would wager some old school dumb GM (there are many of them left) who would overpay for him still but I am not sure it's going to be big prices this year. The east is set for the playoffs already and most of those teams may not have a huge desire to pay big prices for the minor holes they have. Especially in the Atlantic. Pay major futures to go up against top 5 teams in the first two rounds anyways. The west is such a crap shoot I bet a lot of teams are going to be cautious.

The whole thing that's throwing me off is Chiraot. If he truly goes for a 1st+, then there's no real rationale to base any of this on, but I agree on your assessment of the two dman. The West is going to throw off the value since we'll have a lower level of sellers which MAY give leverage to the buyers since the sellers will have fewer teams bidding for their assets.

And not to start an argument because I couldn't reply to the previous thread, but I don't have any issues with Leafs in general. My issues on this board have been surrounding only three players that I've felt fans here have grossly overvalued: O'Rielly, Engvall, Dermott and to some degree Holl. LOTS of Leafs fans have had O'Reilly trades that had multiple firsts + top prospects, Engvall and Dermott for 2nd or much better players in return, etc... and while you and I disagree on those players, those are really the only ones I've had issues with.

Show me a fanbase that doesn't have people massively overvaluing their players. Dermott is definitely a decent NHLer and may still prove to be a decent 2nd pair guy eventually. Right now he's on a top 5 team defensively and has done well for the most part. There are a lot of teams where I think he makes their 2nd pair without much trouble but I don't think any buyers would be wanting him for that role. So that would mean his value wouldn't be a 2nd more like a swap of players who won't get more opportunity on their respective teams. A young LW who just can't move up in his team because better players are ahead of him for Dermott could be a decent idea. Engvall is a weird case, he's absolutely despised by 75% of people on here and I have no idea why. The guy does good work. Nothing happens on the ice when he's on it. Which I think many mistake for him being terrible, but that's not it. He stifles the opposition very well. I haven't come across a player who has a lower expected goals against per 60, the problem is his expected goals for is almost zero as well. But if you have a 4th liner that never gets scored on no matter who he is playing against, is that not quite valuable? This is where I don't understand people on here though. They don't seem to want to see the whole picture. Or even understand what they are looking at.

Again, I'm not trying to start a debate about those players and fine with agreeing to disagree. I'm just saying I don't have some specific thing with the Leafs. All fans overvalue on here, but there definitely degrees between the bases and at least from what I see the Leafs are at the higher degree in that respect. Plus, a big issue that drove me nuts was they were a million AGM's sending O'Rielly to the Pens for crazy returns when the Pens have space and five LHD's. They were simply just not even investigating the teams they were trading to.

O'Rielly? I am not following you there.

Never mind, I'm not trying to rehash or hijack this guy's AGM. I'm just trying to convey that I'm not some anti-Leafs person, but there's just certain players they move/returns on here that I take issue with.

I just don't know who you are talking about. I am super confused. The only O'Rielly I know of is a centre on St Louis.

LOL Sorry, I mean Rielly hahaha

Well at least you won't have to worry about that, Rielly is a Leaf for life.