Forums/Armchair-GM

Could a swap like this work

Créé par: zyyyp
Date de création initiale: 17 janv. 2022
Publié: 17 janv. 2022
Équipe: 2021-22 Devils du New Jersey
Explications
Debrusk wants out and it's time for NJ to move on from Zacha.

Devils could give JD top-6 minutes.
Transactions
1.
NJD
  1. DeBrusk, Jake
BOS
  1. Zacha, Pavel
Rachats de contrats
  • Cory Schneider: 2 000 000 $
Transactions impliquant une retenue de salaire
  • Will Butcher: 910 569 $ (24%)
Frais appliqués
  • Ilya Kovalchuk: 250 000 $
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TAILLE DE LA FORMATIONPLAFOND SALARIALCAP HITEXCÉDENTS Info-bulleBONISESPACE SOUS LE PLAFOND SALARIAL
2381 500 000 $74 838 902 $0 $4 050 000 $6 661 098 $
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17 janv. à 11 h 20
#1
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Yes, it could. Exactly the kind of return Boston has been holding out for. A similar age, value, player coming back.
17 janv. à 11 h 25
#2
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Bruins would be adding, obviously, but its possible.
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17 janv. à 11 h 27
#3
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Devils wouldn't do this 1 for 1. If they wanted to move on from Zacha, they could trade him at the deadline with half retained for a significantly better return than this.

Zacha has been more productive, can play center and is cheaper. Not to mention Debrusk's QO is arguably more than he deserves right now.
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17 janv. à 11 h 28
#4
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Quoting: MellowK
Devils wouldn't do this 1 for 1. If they wanted to move on from Zacha, they could trade him at the deadline with half retained for a significantly better return than this.

Zacha has been more productive, can play center and is cheaper. Not to mention Debrusk's QO is arguably more than he deserves right now.


Great explanation
17 janv. à 11 h 33
#5
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Modifié 17 janv. à 11 h 45
It's a good base but Zacha carries more value than DeBrusk owing to the cap hit, QO, LTM production levels and the fact that DB requested a trade.
Think Bruins would need to add the equivalent of a late first to make fair value

(though I actually think DB is a better player than Zacha and wouldn't mind a one-for-one swap anyway)
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17 janv. à 11 h 34
#6
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Quoting: MellowK
Devils wouldn't do this 1 for 1. If they wanted to move on from Zacha, they could trade him at the deadline with half retained for a significantly better return than this.

Zacha has been more productive, can play center and is cheaper. Not to mention Debrusk's QO is arguably more than he deserves right now.


This is right^

Bruins would add a bit for the QO/uncertainty....and a bit for difference in player values.
17 janv. à 11 h 42
#7
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Quoting: PaulieWalnuts
It's a good base but Zacha carries more value than DeBrusk owing to the cap hit, QO, LTM production levels and the fact that DB requested a trade.
Think Bruins would need to add the equivalent of a late first to make fair value


^ yup

If they added Ty Gallagher and a mid-pick, I'd be down for it
17 janv. à 11 h 44
#8
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Quoting: MellowK
Devils wouldn't do this 1 for 1. If they wanted to move on from Zacha, they could trade him at the deadline with half retained for a significantly better return than this.

Zacha has been more productive, can play center and is cheaper. Not to mention Debrusk's QO is arguably more than he deserves right now.


Zacha has been more productive this season, but over their careers Debrusk has shown a higher ceiling at the NHL level. I think it’s a fair swap if the bruins add a kicker. Nothing crazy. Maybe a third.
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17 janv. à 11 h 45
#9
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qwerty
17 janv. à 12 h 1
#10
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Modifié 17 janv. à 12 h 11
Quoting: NHLfan10506
Bruins would be adding, obviously, but its possible.


Doubt it. Which is why it won’t happen.

Debrusk has been more productive over their careers.

Zacha was at his best last year and beginning of this while Debrusk was at his worst. Since then Zacha has been pretty bad as well.

Zacha’s advantage is his ability to play center. Debrusk has better numbers. Zacha has a better potential QO In the offseason. Pretty close to a wash. Any add would be extremely minimal.
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17 janv. à 12 h 38
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Quoting: Gofnut999
Doubt it. Which is why it won’t happen.

Debrusk has been more productive over their careers.

Zacha was at his best last year and beginning of this while Debrusk was at his worst. Since then Zacha has been pretty bad as well.

Zacha’s advantage is his ability to play center. Debrusk has better numbers. Zacha has a better potential QO In the offseason. Pretty close to a wash. Any add would be extremely minimal.


1. Zacha is a better player right now. By almost any metric.
2. Zacha is younger.
3. Zacha had fewer points in the early years as he was playing 3rd or 4th line center (most common linemate was Stefan Noesen)
4. In those years, Debrusk was playing on 2nd line with Krejci
5. As a winger, Zacha's PPG is higher than Debrusk's in his best season.
6. DeBrusk's salary (and qualifying offer) is 60% higher than Zacha's
7. Zacha is more versatile and can play center or either wing
17 janv. à 12 h 45
#12
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Quoting: NHLfan10506
1. Zacha is a better player right now. By almost any metric.
2. Zacha is younger.
3. Zacha had fewer points in the early years as he was playing 3rd or 4th line center (most common linemate was Stefan Noesen)
4. In those years, Debrusk was playing on 2nd line with Krejci
5. As a winger, Zacha's PPG is higher than Debrusk's in his best season.
6. DeBrusk's salary (and qualifying offer) is 60% higher than Zacha's
7. Zacha is more versatile and can play center or either wing


Most of this not true. Sorry but it’s not.

It’s wishful thinking.

You want to use recency bias? Last 20 games Debrusk 7 points Zacha 5. Tell me again how he is much better player right now. Lol

Debrusk has been more productive. Period, regardless of any excuse you want to use.

6 months apart in age. At seasons end the same age.

Your only argument is Zacha can play center and has better QO. That’s it.

Boston does not add. Period. They have resigned themselves to the concept of not trading him.
17 janv. à 12 h 48
#13
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Quoting: Gofnut999
Most of this not true. Sorry but it’s not.

It’s wishful thinking.

You want to use recency bias? Last 20 games Debrusk 7 points Zacha 5. Tell me again how he is much better player right now. Lol

Debrusk has been more productive. Period, regardless of any excuse you want to use.

Your only argument is Zacha can play center and has better QO. That’s it.

Boston does not add. Period. They have resigned themselves to the concept of not trading him.


Which of those aren't true?
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17 janv. à 13 h 38
#14
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Quoting: Gofnut999
Most of this not true. Sorry but it’s not.

It’s wishful thinking.

You want to use recency bias? Last 20 games Debrusk 7 points Zacha 5. Tell me again how he is much better player right now. Lol

Debrusk has been more productive. Period, regardless of any excuse you want to use.

6 months apart in age. At seasons end the same age.

Your only argument is Zacha can play center and has better QO. That’s it.

Boston does not add. Period. They have resigned themselves to the concept of not trading him.


Last 20? Don't cherry pick.

That Pts/GP is a normal JDB. His last 20 games is 7 pts, but the 20 before that (5 pts) and the 20 before that (7 pts) and the 20 before that (7 pts) all show this.

Zacha has been on cold spell with 5pts in his last 20 games. But the 20 before that (18 pts) and the 20 before that (13 pts) and the 20 before that (17 pts)...well, you get the point.
17 janv. à 13 h 45
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Modifié 17 janv. à 13 h 52
Quoting: Devil1122
Which of those aren't true?


I believe i just told you.

He is not better by any metric currently. In fact over the last 20 games Debrusk has been better.
The narrative is that Debrusk is a one dimensional floater whose only value is goals and needs to be hidden on D. Yet his defensive zone starts are 52.7 this year compared to Zacha’s 47.4 and has more time on the PK than Zacha.

Age, sure techincally, 6 months. In terms of hockey, they are the same. At seasons end same age, become UFA capable same year, developmentally the same. So no.

PPG higher than Debrusk while at wing? Well i don’t have the breakdown numbers in front of me. But Debrusk averaged .62ppg first 3 years. Zacha exceeded .5 once in his career (and has failed to build on it which could mean outlier) he took over 600 faceoffs in that shortened season so i’ll go out on a limb and say he spent most of it at center which even if the stat is true is small sample size and mostly irrelevant.

Honestly stopped reading at that point as it was just biased BS.

Bottom line as i said. His ability to play center and smaller QO is the only advantage he has. As such Boston adding a 3rd or 4th or mid-level prospect to even out value is not out of the question. However Boston won’t at this time so it’s highly unlikely as neither side will come to a compromise that will work for both. 🤷🏻‍♂️
17 janv. à 15 h 7
#16
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Quoting: Gofnut999
I believe i just told you.

He is not better by any metric currently. In fact over the last 20 games Debrusk has been better.
The narrative is that Debrusk is a one dimensional floater whose only value is goals and needs to be hidden on D. Yet his defensive zone starts are 52.7 this year compared to Zacha’s 47.4 and has more time on the PK than Zacha.

Age, sure techincally, 6 months. In terms of hockey, they are the same. At seasons end same age, become UFA capable same year, developmentally the same. So no.

PPG higher than Debrusk while at wing? Well i don’t have the breakdown numbers in front of me. But Debrusk averaged .62ppg first 3 years. Zacha exceeded .5 once in his career (and has failed to build on it which could mean outlier) he took over 600 faceoffs in that shortened season so i’ll go out on a limb and say he spent most of it at center which even if the stat is true is small sample size and mostly irrelevant.

Honestly stopped reading at that point as it was just biased BS.

Bottom line as i said. His ability to play center and smaller QO is the only advantage he has. As such Boston adding a 3rd or 4th or mid-level prospect to even out value is not out of the question. However Boston won’t at this time so it’s highly unlikely as neither side will come to a compromise that will work for both. 🤷🏻‍♂️


Looking at stats from the past 20 games is dumb. Before yesterday, Pettersson had 7 points in his last 20 games. Does that mean Debrusk = Pettersson?
And looking at stats from 5 years ago without context is also pretty dumb. Debrusk played more minutes, on a better team, with better linemates. Obviously he had better stats back then. But since then, Debrusk has decrease in points every year while Zacha has increased in points.

Bratt has more points and higher points per game than Pastrnak this season. Hughes has a higher point per game than Bergeron this season. So Hughes and Bratt are better than Bergeron and Pastrnak right?
17 janv. à 15 h 15
#17
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Modifié 17 janv. à 15 h 25
Quoting: Devil1122
Looking at stats from the past 20 games is dumb. Before yesterday, Pettersson had 7 points in his last 20 games. Does that mean Debrusk = Pettersson?
And looking at stats from 5 years ago without context is also pretty dumb. Debrusk played more minutes, on a better team, with better linemates. Obviously he had better stats back then. But since then, Debrusk has decrease in points every year while Zacha has increased in points.

Bratt has more points and higher points per game than Pastrnak this season. Hughes has a higher point per game than Bergeron this season. So Hughes and Bratt are better than Bergeron and Pastrnak right?


You use very creative math but Debrusks point totals did not go down until last year. He was pretty consistent those first 3 years. There is a pile of reasons/circumstances that lead to that drop. Whatever.

His statement was “Zacha is a better player right now. By almost any metric.”

I showed you why this is a false statement. Last year is not right now, 5 years ago is not right now. Last month is not right now.

Statement still stands. That’s reality. Panties in a bunch or not.
17 janv. à 15 h 23
#18
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Quoting: Gofnut999
You use very creative math but Debrusks point totals did not go down until last year. He was pretty consistent those first 3 years. There is a pile of reasons/circumstances that lead to that drop. Whatever.

Statement still stands. That’s reality.


Debrusk: 43 -> 42 -> 35 -> 14
Zacha: 24 -> 25> -25> -32 -> 35
(I should have specified I was talking points not points per game. But the point still stands that Debrusk has been getting worse while Zacha has been getting better)

There is a pile of reasons/circumstances that led to Zacha's lack of production in his first few seasons
You can't use your logic only for Debrusk and completely ignore it for Zacha. That's called being biased. You know better than that dude.
17 janv. à 15 h 28
#19
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Modifié 17 janv. à 15 h 48
Quoting: Devil1122
Debrusk: 43 -> 42 -> 35 -> 14
Zacha: 24 -> 25> -25> -32 -> 35
(I should have specified I was talking points not points per game. But the point still stands that Debrusk has been getting worse while Zacha has been getting better)

There is a pile of reasons/circumstances that led to Zacha's lack of production in his first few seasons
You can't use your logic only for Debrusk and completely ignore it for Zacha. That's called being biased. You know better than that dude.


PPG is the only fair metric. For example 25 points in 40 games and 35 points in 82 are not the same are they?
17 janv. à 15 h 36
#20
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Quoting: Gofnut999
PPG is the only fair metric. For example 25 points in 40 games and 35 points in 82 are not the same are they?


Debrusk: 0.61 -> 0.62 -> 0.54 -> 0.34 -> 0.33
Zacha: 0.34 -> 0.36 -> 0.41 -> 0.49 -> 0.7 -> 0.47

So Zacha has been better this year and has been better in the past 3 years (which is a better metric than from their stats from 5 years ago and in the past 20 games)

You can't use your logic only for Debrusk and completely ignore it for Zacha like you did before.
17 janv. à 15 h 48
#21
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Modifié 17 janv. à 16 h 0
Quoting: Devil1122
Debrusk: 0.61 -> 0.62 -> 0.54 -> 0.34 -> 0.33
Zacha: 0.34 -> 0.36 -> 0.41 -> 0.49 -> 0.7 -> 0.47

So Zacha has been better this year and has been better in the past 3 years (which is a better metric than from their stats from 5 years ago and in the past 20 games)

You can't use your logic only for Debrusk and completely ignore it for Zacha like you did before.


And you can’t just ignore the first 3 seasons of Debrusk as if they never happened and say he’s only the player he’s been in his last 60 while having Covid twice and piles of other issues.

You cant have it both ways. You either gauge both players in their totality or not.

Their ceilings are very similar. Their floors are similar. And their trade value is as well.

Their first few seasons Debrusk was much better. Last season Zacha was miles better. Over the last 2 months they both have been 💩

As i stated multiple times Zacha ability to play center and his lower QO is his advantage.
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