Forums/NHL

2021-2022 NHL Discussion Thread #11

21 janv. à 11 h 48
#601
Yzerman would never
Avatar de l'utilisateur
Rejoint: mars 2019
Messages: 10,168
Mentions "j'aime": 10,458
Quoting: Db1899
The islanders need to trade Bellows already, This is insane



I know, I saw that. Wtf
capsfan2121 et Db1899 a aimé ceci.
21 janv. à 11 h 51
#602
Avatar de l'utilisateur
Rejoint: août 2021
Messages: 7,472
Mentions "j'aime": 6,993
Quoting: AndrewLadd
I know, I saw that. Wtf


Notice how after Bellows had 8 points in 8 games (and 2 primary assists on the powerplay) , Trotz took him off the powerplay and limited his ice time. Putting him on his off wing with Barzal was a trap because Trotz knew it wouldn't work and he could use it as an excuse to call him out and then scratch him. He is one spiteful mfer.
Zuki9797 et Saskleaf a aimé ceci.
21 janv. à 11 h 53
#603
Ovchinnikov 137
Avatar de l'utilisateur
Rejoint: avr. 2019
Messages: 5,801
Mentions "j'aime": 6,788
Quoting: justaBoss
EDM hasn't succeeded in anything since 2006 and even having two of the best players in the world doesn't seem to change that.


I think the scary thing for fans should be it doesn’t matter if you tank and get high picks (Eichel, McDavid, Matthews, MacKinnon) (all don’t have any playoff success) if you don’t have the right leadership in place to surround these players with the right combination of depth, goaltending, defence, your fukced and just waisting talent.
capsfan2121, justaBoss et Zuki9797 a aimé ceci.
21 janv. à 11 h 58
#604
Arbiter of Truth
Avatar de l'utilisateur
Rejoint: oct. 2017
Messages: 29,183
Mentions "j'aime": 25,944
Quoting: MatthewsFan
I think the scary thing for fans should be it doesn’t matter if you tank and get high picks (Eichel, McDavid, Matthews, MacKinnon) (all don’t have any playoff success) if you don’t have the right leadership in place to surround these players with the right combination of depth, goaltending, defence, your fukced and just waisting talent.


This pretty much explains why the likes of EDM and BUF have turned into royal jokes of the league in last 10+ years. So much opportunity to get talent and it's all gone to waste in terms of it never actually leading to anything successful.

I just can't fathom how things have gone so wrong for them despite all the chances and assets they have had the opportunity to get. But it doesn't matter if a thing called winning culture which entails things such a proper leadership is pretty much nonexistent.
MatthewsFan a aimé ceci.
21 janv. à 12 h 0
#605
Ovchinnikov 137
Avatar de l'utilisateur
Rejoint: avr. 2019
Messages: 5,801
Mentions "j'aime": 6,788
Quoting: justaBoss
This pretty much explains why the likes of EDM and BUF have turned into royal jokes of the league in last 10+ years. So much opportunity to get talent and it's all gone to waste in terms of it never actually leading to anything successful.

I just can't fathom how things have gone so wrong for them despite all the chances and assets they have had the opportunity to get. But it doesn't matter if a thing called winning culture which entails things such a proper leadership is pretty much nonexistent.


2010 1st overall
2011 1st overall
2012 1st overall
2014 3rd overall
2015 1st overall
2016 4th overall

How many NHL teams haven't even had a 1st overall in a decade let alone 3 straight years. Or just being in the top 5.

And COULD be headed for another rebuild should they not be able to right the ship.
A_Habs_fan, justaBoss, Devil and 1 other person a aimé ceci.
21 janv. à 12 h 1
#606
Yzerman would never
Avatar de l'utilisateur
Rejoint: mars 2019
Messages: 10,168
Mentions "j'aime": 10,458
Quoting: Db1899
Notice how after Bellows had 8 points in 8 games (and 2 primary assists on the powerplay) , Trotz took him off the powerplay and limited his ice time. Putting him on his off wing with Barzal was a trap because Trotz knew it wouldn't work and he could use it as an excuse to call him out and then scratch him. He is one spiteful mfer.

Bellows has been good I just don’t understand Trotz problem with scoring. So many better options to scratch. We’re playing the Yotes too so we’ll probably win 4-0 meaning Trotz will use the win as an excuse to keep this lineup for a while
capsfan2121 a aimé ceci.
21 janv. à 12 h 3
#607
Eklund SZN loading
Avatar de l'utilisateur
Rejoint: sept. 2019
Messages: 8,195
Mentions "j'aime": 10,224
Quoting: Alfie11
.

As for why Yzerman selected Cossa over Wallstedt, on draft day they were basically 50/50. Most scouts had them both in the 10-15 range (I'm pretty sure Pronman had them at 10/11 in one of his final rankings, Bob McKenzie had them at 12/15 in his final rankings). The difference if I'm remembering correctly is that Wallstedt possesses elite technical skills and hockey sense (meaning he's very good at reading the play, and is always in the right position), while Cossa is very good as well, but also 6'6". My bet is that Yzerman felt he could ride Nedeljkovic for a few years, and teach Cossa to perfect the positioning side and take advantage of his larger frame (longer time developing in the AHL, maybe 2-3 years, whereas Wallstedt is likely to crack the NHL by the time he's 21). Really you can't go wrong with either though. I feel like Wallstedt has Vasilevskiy upside but Cossa has Bishop upside, and is more likely to at least make the NHL due to his sheer size.


Summed it perfectly - found the best way to say that draft decision for Yzerman (for some reason I can’t like the post tho lol)
A_Habs_fan et Alfie11 a aimé ceci.
21 janv. à 12 h 4
#608
Avatar de l'utilisateur
Rejoint: août 2021
Messages: 7,472
Mentions "j'aime": 6,993
Quoting: AndrewLadd
Bellows has been good I just don’t understand Trotz problem with scoring. So many better options to scratch. We’re playing the Yotes too so we’ll probably win 4-0 meaning Trotz will use the win as an excuse to keep this lineup for a while


yeah that's my point, he wants Bellows to fail so he has an excuse to take him out of the lineup. It's absurd that a coach wants his young players to fail to he has an excuse to replace them with guys he respects but don't do anything to help the team win games.
AndrewLadd a aimé ceci.
21 janv. à 12 h 10
#609
Avatar de l'utilisateur
Rejoint: févr. 2020
Messages: 4,181
Mentions "j'aime": 5,018
Fun fact,

Joel armia has caught covid more times than he’s scored this season
capsfan2121, Zuki9797, Devil and 1 other person a aimé ceci.
21 janv. à 12 h 11
#610
Van agm v5
Avatar de l'utilisateur
Rejoint: mai 2021
Messages: 10,538
Mentions "j'aime": 7,466
Quoting: MitchMarner_16
Fun fact,

Joel armia has caught covid more times than he’s scored this season



Nice
21 janv. à 12 h 15
#611
Yzerman would never
Avatar de l'utilisateur
Rejoint: mars 2019
Messages: 10,168
Mentions "j'aime": 10,458
Oh yeah by the way I make my triumphant return to Long Island tonight
EsoYeezus69, Zuki9797 et Devil a aimé ceci.
21 janv. à 12 h 15
#612
Eklund SZN loading
Avatar de l'utilisateur
Rejoint: sept. 2019
Messages: 8,195
Mentions "j'aime": 10,224
Quoting: oilersguy
why is it mentioned that the super genius that can never do no wrong that is Steve Yzerman drafted Cossa before Wallstedt the goalie who some people are saying was just the clear cut franchise goalie in this draft class which the stupidest thing I've ever heard because if it were that obvious he would have been a top 5 pick.

And people are acting like the Oilers don't have good goalie prospects, Konovalov is finding his game in NA after not doing so well in the first month of the AHL season and had great numbers in the KHL, and there is Rodrigue who isn't as promising but still not bad and the the Condors have been really good recently with them rotating the net. And don't forget about Skinner is who is gonna be great for us


None of the Oilers goalie prospects hold much in terms of league wide value. Skinner is the only one, and definitely has the most value and I would say if he was a “ufa” most teams would call him. But he’s more of a 1B/ maybe like 30-40 game back up type guy who I’d be very happy with having. He looks like a bright spot. But you aren’t winning a cup this year (with the current team situation but there’s time for that to be fixed) and Skinner isnt the guy who the Oilers should be putting their chips on because he’s not a cup winning goalie and he’s not exactly ready full time for the NHL. He’s a rookie not a cup with run guy.

Cossa and Wallstedt aren’t gonna be ready this year either. But neither is Xavier. Xavier makes the NHL maybe in 2 years - the same time I’d expect one of Cossa or Wallstedt to be playing in North American Pros. If things go magically for both they could both be backups learning to be starters.

Yzerman didn’t exactly “pass” on his need. He went with Cossa. For me; Wallstedt is a franchise level asset. Cossa is more of a starter. But that’s subjective and Stevie Y still addressed the need of a starter goalie. Cossa isn’t a bad pick and he went with HIS guy.

But if you’re the Oilers - Wallstedt (which coulda been Cossa if Y picked Jesper) falling to 20 (or whatever the pick was) was literally a gift. Wallstedt or Cossa at 20 is literally a no brainer selection. Both guys conceivably can be 50-60 game starter quality goalies with Cossa being a safer pick maybe like a 5-7mil type guy but Wallstedt being a cup winning/ vezina calibre goalie. Instead the Oilers neglected their need and passed on a free no brainer. Which is why Minnesota took that trade with what I would bet was not a second thought.
21 janv. à 12 h 19
#613
Avatar de l'utilisateur
Rejoint: sept. 2020
Messages: 13,735
Mentions "j'aime": 7,595
Quoting: MatthewsFan
2010 1st overall
2011 1st overall
2012 1st overall
2014 3rd overall
2015 1st overall
2016 4th overall

How many NHL teams haven't even had a 1st overall in a decade let alone 3 straight years. Or just being in the top 5.

And COULD be headed for another rebuild should they not be able to right the ship.


Flames have never had a top 3 pick.
EsoYeezus69, Alfie11 et Saskleaf a aimé ceci.
21 janv. à 12 h 19
#614
Yzerman would never
Avatar de l'utilisateur
Rejoint: mars 2019
Messages: 10,168
Mentions "j'aime": 10,458
Quoting: yikes
None of the Oilers goalie prospects hold much in terms of league wide value. Skinner is the only one, and definitely has the most value and I would say if he was a “ufa” most teams would call him. But he’s more of a 1B/ maybe like 30-40 game back up type guy who I’d be very happy with having. He looks like a bright spot. But you aren’t winning a cup this year (with the current team situation but there’s time for that to be fixed) and Skinner isnt the guy who the Oilers should be putting their chips on because he’s not a cup winning goalie and he’s not exactly ready full time for the NHL. He’s a rookie not a cup with run guy.

Cossa and Wallstedt aren’t gonna be ready this year either. But neither is Xavier. Xavier makes the NHL maybe in 2 years - the same time I’d expect one of Cossa or Wallstedt to be playing in North American Pros. If things go magically for both they could both be backups learning to be starters.

Yzerman didn’t exactly “pass” on his need. He went with Cossa. For me; Wallstedt is a franchise level asset. Cossa is more of a starter. But that’s subjective and Stevie Y still addressed the need of a starter goalie. Cossa isn’t a bad pick and he went with HIS guy.

But if you’re the Oilers - Wallstedt (which coulda been Cossa if Y picked Jesper) falling to 20 (or whatever the pick was) was literally a gift. Wallstedt or Cossa at 20 is literally a no brainer selection. Both guys conceivably can be 50-60 game starter quality goalies with Cossa being a safer pick but Wallstedt being a cup winning/ vezina calibre goalies. Instead the Oilers neglected their need and passed on a free no brainer. Which is why Minnesota took that trade with what I would bet was not a second thought.


Everyone thought Seider was a reach when Stevie Y picked him. Goalies are voodoo, and I’d be willing to bet there are some years Cossa looks better and other years Wallstedt plays better (once they make the NHL.) I think either way they will both be elite goalies for years to come. Don’t even know if Skinner become a 1B tbh. I think there’s a much better chance Wallstedt becomes a top 3-5 goalie in the NHL at some point in his career than Skinner becomes a reliable 40 game guy
yikes, MatthewsFan et EsoYeezus69 a aimé ceci.
21 janv. à 12 h 25
#615
Eklund SZN loading
Avatar de l'utilisateur
Rejoint: sept. 2019
Messages: 8,195
Mentions "j'aime": 10,224
Modifié 21 janv. à 12 h 33
Quoting: AndrewLadd
Everyone thought Seider was a reach when Stevie Y picked him. Goalies are voodoo, and I’d be willing to bet there are some years Cossa looks better and other years Wallstedt plays better (once they make the NHL.) I think either way they will both be elite goalies for years to come. Don’t even know if Skinner become a 1B tbh. I think there’s a much better chance Wallstedt becomes a top 3-5 goalie in the NHL at some point in his career than Skinner becomes a reliable 40 game guy


Completely agree. Seider was “mocked” as a pick and he’s a front runner for Calder. Stevie Y built a very good team which is why I do not neglect any pick he makes.

Tampa isn’t a juggernaut with a ton of firsts (not flaming the Leafs or Oilers buttttt) Tampa was built on a a few first round picks (Stamkos, Vasi, Hedman) and supplemented with DEEP talent from great scouting and development.

The triplets (Palat (can’t remember maybe a 3rd?), Johnson (undrafted), Kuch (2nd?)), Sergachev (1st) but was a acquisition, Rutta (lol), Killorn and Cirelli are thirds I think, Maroooooon (6th but UFA), Point is a third. I mean the team isn’t built from star selections; rather stars that were developed. Goodrow and Coleman acquired aren’t elite talents. Joseph and Colton Ross? It goes on and on.

So I wouldn’t be shocked if Wallstedt blows Skinner/Cossa out of the water but Stevie Y definitely is gonna make us “wait till the fat lady sings”. Cause man that guys a sick GM.
A_Habs_fan, AndrewLadd, MatthewsFan and 1 other person a aimé ceci.
21 janv. à 12 h 27
#616
Van agm v5
Avatar de l'utilisateur
Rejoint: mai 2021
Messages: 10,538
Mentions "j'aime": 7,466
Quoting: AndrewLadd
Oh yeah by the way I make my triumphant return to Long Island tonight


We welcome you with open arms
21 janv. à 12 h 29
#617
Eklund SZN loading
Avatar de l'utilisateur
Rejoint: sept. 2019
Messages: 8,195
Mentions "j'aime": 10,224

capsfan2121, PointStamkosVasilevskiy219188, EsoYeezus69 and 1 other person a aimé ceci.
21 janv. à 12 h 31
#618
v5 CBJ GM
Avatar de l'utilisateur
Rejoint: oct. 2020
Messages: 10,253
Mentions "j'aime": 13,829
Quoting: yikes



Marchand's a pretty good guy, player though, that's a different discussion lol
yikes, capsfan2121, EsoYeezus69 and 2 others a aimé ceci.
21 janv. à 12 h 31
#619
Eklund SZN loading
Avatar de l'utilisateur
Rejoint: sept. 2019
Messages: 8,195
Mentions "j'aime": 10,224
Marchand don’t really give a **** anymore

A_Habs_fan, AndrewLadd, capsfan2121 and 4 others a aimé ceci.
21 janv. à 12 h 32
#620
Eklund SZN loading
Avatar de l'utilisateur
Rejoint: sept. 2019
Messages: 8,195
Mentions "j'aime": 10,224
Quoting: A_Habs_fan
Marchand's a pretty good guy, player though, that's a different discussion lol

That kid probably had his year made and it’s January lmao
EsoYeezus69, Gmonwy et Zuki9797 a aimé ceci.
21 janv. à 12 h 33
#621
Yzerman would never
Avatar de l'utilisateur
Rejoint: mars 2019
Messages: 10,168
Mentions "j'aime": 10,458
Quoting: yikes
Completely agree. Seider was “mocked” as a pick and he’s a front runner for Calder. Stevie Y built a very good team which is why I do not neglect any pick he makes.

Tampa isn’t a juggernaut with a ton of firsts (not flaming the Leafs or Oilers buttttt) Tampa was built on a a few first round picks (Stamkos, Vasi, Hedman) and supplemented with DEEP talent from great scouting and development.

The triplets (Palat (can’t remember maybe a 3rd?), Johnson (undrafted), Kuch (2nd?)), Sergachev (1st) but was a acquisition, Rutta (lol), Killorn and Cirelli are thirds I think, Maroooooon (6th but UFW), Point is a third. I mean the team isn’t built from star selections; rather stars that were developed. Goodrow and Coleman acquired aren’t elite talents. Joseph and Colton Ross? It goes on and on.

So I wouldn’t be shocked if Wallstedt blows Skinner/Cossa out of the water but Stevie Y definitely is gonna make us “wait till the fat lady sings”. Cause man that guys a sick GM.

Regardless, if Stevie Y picked Wallstedt and it was Cossa there for the Oilers instead, they still should pick Cossa over Xavier (although Wallstedt>Cossa imo.) but ur right, Stevie is a sick gm, and is one of the few guys who I’ll wait and see before judging with all his moves, no matter how head scratching they may seem
21 janv. à 12 h 35
#622
Eklund SZN loading
Avatar de l'utilisateur
Rejoint: sept. 2019
Messages: 8,195
Mentions "j'aime": 10,224
Quoting: AndrewLadd
Regardless, if Stevie Y picked Wallstedt and it was Cossa there for the Oilers instead, they still should pick Cossa over Xavier (although Wallstedt>Cossa imo.) but ur right, Stevie is a sick gm, and is one of the few guys who I’ll wait and see before judging with all his moves, no matter how head scratching they may seem


Oh yeah I don’t think EDM woulda drafted Cossa either - trading down in that situation meant they wanted Xavier all along and just doesn’t make sense imo. Xavier looks good too but there’s no reason they need another “smaller frame” scoring skilled forward.
21 janv. à 12 h 47
#623
Arbiter of Truth
Avatar de l'utilisateur
Rejoint: oct. 2017
Messages: 29,183
Mentions "j'aime": 25,944
Quoting: yikes
Completely agree. Seider was “mocked” as a pick and he’s a front runner for Calder. Stevie Y built a very good team which is why I do not neglect any pick he makes.

Tampa isn’t a juggernaut with a ton of firsts (not flaming the Leafs or Oilers buttttt) Tampa was built on a a few first round picks (Stamkos, Vasi, Hedman) and supplemented with DEEP talent from great scouting and development.

The triplets (Palat (can’t remember maybe a 3rd?), Johnson (undrafted), Kuch (2nd?)), Sergachev (1st) but was a acquisition, Rutta (lol), Killorn and Cirelli are thirds I think, Maroooooon (6th but UFA), Point is a third. I mean the team isn’t built from star selections; rather stars that were developed. Goodrow and Coleman acquired aren’t elite talents. Joseph and Colton Ross? It goes on and on.

So I wouldn’t be shocked if Wallstedt blows Skinner/Cossa out of the water but Stevie Y definitely is gonna make us “wait till the fat lady sings”. Cause man that guys a sick GM.


Palat was a 7th round pick. Ended up being one of the biggest steals of the draft
yikes, PointStamkosVasilevskiy219188, EsoYeezus69 and 4 others a aimé ceci.
21 janv. à 13 h 8
#624
NICK PAUL
Avatar de l'utilisateur
Rejoint: juill. 2021
Messages: 2,428
Mentions "j'aime": 4,220
Quoting: yikes
Completely agree. Seider was “mocked” as a pick and he’s a front runner for Calder. Stevie Y built a very good team which is why I do not neglect any pick he makes.

Tampa isn’t a juggernaut with a ton of firsts (not flaming the Leafs or Oilers but...) Tampa was built on a a few first round picks (Stamkos, Vasi, Hedman) and supplemented with DEEP talent from great scouting and development.

The triplets (Palat (can’t remember maybe a 3rd?), Johnson (undrafted), Kuch (2nd?)), Sergachev (1st) but was a acquisition, Rutta (lol), Killorn and Cirelli are thirds I think, Maroooooon (6th but UFA), Point is a third. I mean the team isn’t built from star selections; rather stars that were developed. Goodrow and Coleman acquired aren’t elite talents. Joseph and Colton Ross? It goes on and on.

So I wouldn’t be shocked if Wallstedt blows Skinner/Cossa out of the water but Stevie Y definitely is gonna make us “wait till the fat lady sings”. Cause man that guys a sick GM.


You got almost everything right, Palat was actually a 7th, believe it or not. And yes, Yzerman is a terrific GM. He lay down the foundation for the Lightning in the first place (and JBB's done an equally terrific job since).
yikes, MatthewsFan, capsfan2121 and 1 other person a aimé ceci.
21 janv. à 13 h 8
#625
Eklund SZN loading
Avatar de l'utilisateur
Rejoint: sept. 2019
Messages: 8,195
Mentions "j'aime": 10,224
Quoting: justaBoss
Palat was a 7th round pick. Ended up being one of the biggest steals of the draft


just nasty - joins my boy Pavelski.

I love third round picks tho, If I'm a contending team and Im close to a cup Im fine with trading all my seconds, and firsts as long as I have a few thirds piled up.
 
To create a post please Login or S'inscrire
Question:
Options:
Ajouter une option
Supprimer une option
Soumettre le sondage