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How Many more before we admit its a problem with these teams

Créé par: TM11
Équipe: 2021-22 Équipe personnalisée
Date de création initiale: 14 janv. 2022
Publié: 14 janv. 2022
Mode - plafond salarial: Basique
Description
Laf and Byfield went to be followed by Stutzle, Raymond, Sanderson and Dysdale who all currently look to have higher ceilings

Kakko and Turcotte were followed by players like Byram, Seider, Zegras and Dach (Kakko)

Kravstov followed by guys like Bouchard, Walhstrom and Farbee

Anderson and Vilardi were followed by Suzuki, Necas, Norris and Robert Thomas

Both of these teams were super competitive in the early part of the decade and were rarely drafting in the 1st round after trading their picks away now it seems as if every Forward draft pick they have had is a bust and might be time to realize that just beacuse these teams have a bunch of former top picks doesnt mean they have the best prospects pools as they cannot develop or pick the right players over and over again
TAILLE DE LA FORMATIONPLAFOND SALARIALCAP HITEXCÉDENTS Info-bulleBONISESPACE SOUS LE PLAFOND SALARIAL
121 $11 949 959 $0 $11 745 000 $-11 949 958 $
Ailier gaucheCentreAilier droit
Logo de Rangers de New York
925 000 $925 000 $ (Bonis de performance2 850 000 $$3M)
AG, AD
RFA - 2
Logo de Kings de Los Angeles
894 167 $894 167 $ (Bonis de performance2 650 000 $$3M)
AG, C
RFA - 3
Logo de Rangers de New York
925 000 $925 000 $ (Bonis de performance2 650 000 $$3M)
AD
RFA - 1
Logo de Kings de Los Angeles
874 125 $874 125 $
C, AG
RFA - 1
Logo de Kings de Los Angeles
894 167 $894 167 $ (Bonis de performance1 550 000 $$2M)
C
RFA - 3
Logo de Rangers de New York
775 000 $775 000 $
AD
UFA - 1
Logo de Rangers de New York
2 300 000 $2 300 000 $
C, AG
UFA - 2
Logo de Kings de Los Angeles
894 167 $894 167 $ (Bonis de performance850 000 $$850K)
AD, C
RFA - 1
Logo de Rangers de New York
925 000 $925 000 $ (Bonis de performance850 000 $$850K)
AG, AD
RFA - 1
Logo de Kings de Los Angeles
863 333 $863 333 $ (Bonis de performance212 500 $$212K)
C, AG, AD
RFA - 2
Logo de Kings de Los Angeles
795 000 $795 000 $ (Bonis de performance132 500 $$132K)
C
RFA - 2
Logo de Golden Knights de Vegas
885 000 $885 000 $
C, AG
UFA - 1
Défenseur gaucherDéfenseur droitierGardien de but

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14 janv. 2022 à 16 h 39
#1
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100% agree
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14 janv. 2022 à 17 h 13
#2
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These teams rush their players/don’t have the depth to prevent these young guys from playing. Confidence is everything for a young guy (or really any player), and coming out of the first round into a big market team is not easy. Add in that these teams basically immediately push these players into top 6/top 4 roles with stars who go up against the other teams’ best and it kills their confidence.

That is my opinion. Take many teams who have successfully developed players for example. In philly, couturier was not rushed, even though the flyers had all the reason to do so. One of the best examples is in Winnipeg. Scheifele, Connor, Morrissey, and ehelrs all are all products of taking it slow with young guys, (two of whom spent entire season in the ahl first).

While no development model is perfect, I think these two teams (especially the rangers) have a tendency to rush their players
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14 janv. 2022 à 17 h 27
#3
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The draft is a crap shoot.
14 janv. 2022 à 17 h 36
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Quoting: arafay
These teams rush their players/don’t have the depth to prevent these young guys from playing. Confidence is everything for a young guy (or really any player), and coming out of the first round into a big market team is not easy. Add in that these teams basically immediately push these players into top 6/top 4 roles with stars who go up against the other teams’ best and it kills their confidence.

That is my opinion. Take many teams who have successfully developed players for example. In philly, couturier was not rushed, even though the flyers had all the reason to do so. One of the best examples is in Winnipeg. Scheifele, Connor, Morrissey, and ehelrs all are all products of taking it slow with young guys, (two of whom spent entire season in the ahl first).

While no development model is perfect, I think these two teams (especially the rangers) have a tendency to rush their players


I think the problem is teams like the rangers rush players and put them with bad players. it’s actually better for a young players development to put them with stars against tough competition than in a sheltered role with replacement level forwards.
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14 janv. 2022 à 18 h 9
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Quoting: Db1899
I think the problem is teams like the rangers rush players and put them with bad players. it’s actually better for a young players development to put them with stars against tough competition than in a sheltered role with replacement level forwards.


I think that depends on the player. For example, to start, I don’t think kappo or laf should have been playing with panarin 5 on 5. Let them score a few points and then move them in as they gain confidence. It also comes to the point of depth you mentioned, a lot of these teams simply don’t have the players to properly introduce these young skilled guys and hence have to play them with the likes of panarin for example.
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14 janv. 2022 à 18 h 18
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Quoting: arafay
I think that depends on the player. For example, to start, I don’t think kappo or laf should have been playing with panarin 5 on 5. Let them score a few points and then move them in as they gain confidence. It also comes to the point of depth you mentioned, a lot of these teams simply don’t have the players to properly introduce these young skilled guys and hence have to play them with the likes of panarin for example.


It’s hard to put up points when you’re playing with forwards who can’t score. That’s why I’d rather just give them ice time with panarin, theyll luck into a few points and that will give them confidence and take some weight off their shoulders. I think Kakko would have been better off if he played with Panarin from the start, he’s had trouble gaining momentum because of his role and the quality of his linemates.
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14 janv. 2022 à 18 h 30
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Quoting: arafay
These teams rush their players/don’t have the depth to prevent these young guys from playing. Confidence is everything for a young guy (or really any player), and coming out of the first round into a big market team is not easy. Add in that these teams basically immediately push these players into top 6/top 4 roles with stars who go up against the other teams’ best and it kills their confidence.

That is my opinion. Take many teams who have successfully developed players for example. In philly, couturier was not rushed, even though the flyers had all the reason to do so. One of the best examples is in Winnipeg. Scheifele, Connor, Morrissey, and ehelrs all are all products of taking it slow with young guys, (two of whom spent entire season in the ahl first).

While no development model is perfect, I think these two teams (especially the rangers) have a tendency to rush their players


I agree with this a lot. But NYR stand out because of their recent fumbles. Another team would be MTL.

Not allowing a player to grow with confidence. Yeah sure a player may do well on a great 3rd line in the NHL - but the AHL ain’t easy, imo I’d rather Eklund (my own teams example) cook another year with direct development and goals. In the AHL/ not the NHL; players have the opportunity to develop their game and weaknesses while building forward.

Once you hit the NHL you have a full time schedule, less practice, practice is team focused, and less 1 on 1 development or focus with direction. So with Eklund I’m glad he was sent down because it was the right call not to RUIN THE ASSET. Who cares how shiney that asset is, you don’t want to break it. You get time to improve outside the NHL, you don’t get that time once you’re there; you have to perform.

Quoting: Db1899
I think the problem is teams like the rangers rush players and put them with bad players. it’s actually better for a young players development to put them with stars against tough competition than in a sheltered role with replacement level forwards.


Quoting: arafay
I think that depends on the player. For example, to start, I don’t think kappo or laf should have been playing with panarin 5 on 5. Let them score a few points and then move them in as they gain confidence. It also comes to the point of depth you mentioned, a lot of these teams simply don’t have the players to properly introduce these young skilled guys and hence have to play them with the likes of panarin for example.


I think Laf is a hard example. For me Laf wasn’t the best in class - as bold as that is too say I woulda went with Stutzle first overall. But Raymond wasn’t on my radar to the degree of Stutzle, and Raymond’s doing fantastic.

Quoting: Jfstompers
The draft is a crap shoot.


In part it comes down to this but really good scouting and development should help reduce that crap shoot. So when you’re bad at scouting or development it’s very noticeable. And even more so when you’re bad at both. Tampa is a great team for highlighting development and I’ll use Detroit as a team with great scouting. You notice how great those two teams help reduce that “crapshoot”.

Whereas scouting and development hasn’t done so well in NYR, MTL as of late.
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14 janv. 2022 à 18 h 56
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This is nothing new for Rangers. Going back to the days of Brendl, Malhotra, Jessiman, Montoya. Been a decades long problem. (And could probably say the same about LAK with d-men back in the day)

But when you have guys like Panarin and Fox keep falling into your lap, no reason to change, I guess.
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14 janv. 2022 à 18 h 58
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Byfield and Laf will breakout soon
14 janv. 2022 à 19 h 6
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Quoting: Db1899
It’s hard to put up points when you’re playing with forwards who can’t score. That’s why I’d rather just give them ice time with panarin, theyll luck into a few points and that will give them confidence and take some weight off their shoulders. I think Kakko would have been better off if he played with Panarin from the start, he’s had trouble gaining momentum because of his role and the quality of his linemates.


I agree, laf should play with panarin. However, I think Kakko could thrive on the second or even 3rd line with some time with panarin here and there.
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14 janv. 2022 à 19 h 19
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Quoting: arafay
I agree, laf should play with panarin. However, I think Kakko could thrive on the second or even 3rd line with some time with panarin here and there.


I feel like for a young players development they need a stretch of games whete they can be”the guy” , if that makes sense. It gives them a ton of confidence going forward. I think the isles have been terrible with development over the last 5-10 years but by necessity they’ve had to put Wahlstrom + Dobson in certain roles that have been crucial for their development. For example, over the last two years Trotz has sheltered Dobson and gave him terrible D partners like Boychuk/Chara, but due to covid/Pulock injury the isles have had to play Dobson 21-24 min per game and it’s given him a ton of confidence. 10 pts in his last 11, I haven’t seen him try things like this since his junior days

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14 janv. 2022 à 19 h 23
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Quoting: Db1899
I feel like for a young players development they need a stretch of games whete they can be”the guy” , if that makes sense. It gives them a ton of confidence going forward. I think the isles have been terrible with development over the last 5-10 years but by necessity they’ve had to put Wahlstrom + Dobson in certain roles that have been crucial for their development. For example, over the last two years Trotz has sheltered Dobson and gave him terrible D partners like Boychuk/Chara, but due to covid/Pulock injury the isles have had to play Dobson 21-24 min per game and it’s given him a ton of confidence. 10 pts in his last 11, I haven’t seen him try things like this since his junior days



Exactly my point. A guy like kakko and laf can’t be “the guy” next to a panarin. Same way perfetti didn’t stand out last night for the jets, even though he played well, cause he’s playing with Connor and dubios. It’s hard to stand out next to those players. That’s why they need to occasionally play with guys who aren’t legitimate stars.

Also, that was an absolute beauty. Dobson is going to be really good
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14 janv. 2022 à 19 h 26
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Quoting: arafay
Exactly my point. A guy like kakko and laf can’t be “the guy” next to a panarin. Same way perfetti didn’t stand out last night for the jets, even though he played well, cause he’s playing with Connor and dubios. It’s hard to stand out next to those players. That’s why they need to occasionally play with guys who aren’t legitimate stars.

Also, that was an absolute beauty. Dobson is going to be really good


Long term will Perfetti will be a center or W on the jets?
14 janv. 2022 à 19 h 29
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Quoting: Db1899
Long term will Perfetti will be a center or W on the jets?


Don’t know tbh. He still needs to work on his skating, but I don’t think that will prevent him from being a centre. I think that question will be answered in 3 years if schiefele signs another contract with the jets. If he stays, perfetti probably plays on his wing long term. Or maybe dubios moves to his natural wing position since he’s so bad at faceoffs 😂

Overall, it honestly doesn’t matter. Perfetti is a really smart player, his impact won’t depend on his position in my opinion.
14 janv. 2022 à 19 h 34
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Quoting: arafay
Don’t know tbh. He still needs to work on his skating, but I don’t think that will prevent him from being a centre. I think that question will be answered in 3 years if schiefele signs another contract with the jets. If he stays, perfetti probably plays on his wing long term.

Overall, it honestly doesn’t matter. Perfetti is a really smart player, his impact won’t depend on his position in my opinion. Maybe dubios moves to his natural wing position since he’s so bad at faceoffs 😂


If I was the jets GM, I would trade Scheifele while his value his high and go with Dubios-Perfetti down the middle. I think Perfetti can be a top 10-15 center, his hockey sense is incredible.
14 janv. 2022 à 20 h 20
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Quoting: Db1899
If I was the jets GM, I would trade Scheifele while his value his high and go with Dubios-Perfetti down the middle. I think Perfetti can be a top 10-15 center, his hockey sense is incredible.


I don’t understand why some jets fans are so crazy about trading scheifele (who’s value is probably as low as it will ever be right now). The guy has been out best player for the past 4 seasons at least, and we trade him in his first down year?. Scheifele already is a top 10-15 centre in the league, why move him? The jets have 2 1C’s. They aren’t losing that by choice. And all of that is ignoring the fact that schiefele hits a new level in playoffs that no other jet can match.

And let’s not forget that schiefele is probably the most loved jet in the fan base. He’s consistently been our best player, and it would be a terrible image for the team to move their 1C and what looks to be future captain in his first bad year with the team.

Why not have a top 6 that includes schiefele, perfetti, dubios, Connor, and ehlers. That has to be one of, if not the best top 6 in the league.
16 janv. 2022 à 1 h 59
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Quoting: yikes
I agree with this a lot. But NYR stand out because of their recent fumbles. Another team would be MTL.

Not allowing a player to grow with confidence. Yeah sure a player may do well on a great 3rd line in the NHL - but the AHL ain’t easy, imo I’d rather Eklund (my own teams example) cook another year with direct development and goals. In the AHL/ not the NHL; players have the opportunity to develop their game and weaknesses while building forward.

Once you hit the NHL you have a full time schedule, less practice, practice is team focused, and less 1 on 1 development or focus with direction. So with Eklund I’m glad he was sent down because it was the right call not to RUIN THE ASSET. Who cares how shiney that asset is, you don’t want to break it. You get time to improve outside the NHL, you don’t get that time once you’re there; you have to perform.





I think Laf is a hard example. For me Laf wasn’t the best in class - as bold as that is too say I woulda went with Stutzle first overall. But Raymond wasn’t on my radar to the degree of Stutzle, and Raymond’s doing fantastic.



In part it comes down to this but really good scouting and development should help reduce that crap shoot. So when you’re bad at scouting or development it’s very noticeable. And even more so when you’re bad at both. Tampa is a great team for highlighting development and I’ll use Detroit as a team with great scouting. You notice how great those two teams help reduce that “crapshoot”.

Whereas scouting and development hasn’t done so well in NYR, MTL as of late.


Yeah, you think exactly what i believe, that young guys can come into the NHL and chase the game enough o get a few luck points but ultimetly like oyu said with Eklund sending him back so he can control and dominate the game is way more important than having him play in the NHL only to chase the game every night only to luck into a few assist and backdoor/rebound goals
 
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