Klingberg is an awful fit for the Leafs. They need a defensive defenseman, the guy who's PKing. Klingberg is the exact opposite. He's the one you want starting in the offensive zone and on the 1st PP unit. Paying this kind of price for a defenseman who's going to fit their needs about as much as Tyson Barrie is just silly.

Lol dreadful

Leafs # 3 in PP, don't need Klingberg. And as Byrr suggested above, Klingberg is no better than average at even strength. Holl at 2m is not problem with his cap hit next year. Wishful thinking that Mrazrek can be traded away (cheaply)

Klingberg is a puck moving defenseman, and is definitely an upgrade over Holl who has been awful this year. He is not excellent defensively but not Barrie levels bad. He is more like a right handed Morgan Rielly. You probably aren't going to find any top 4 shutdown RD on the market this year.

I find it interesting that so many think Holl is awful. I'll admit he hasn't as good this year this but neither has his partner Muzzin. Holl plays 20 minutes a night against top lines and kills PK. Certainly Klingberg doesn't do that and somehow Klingberg is a minus player. Raffil I doubt has been better than Simmons. Would the Leafs give up so much for Klingberg?

Holl is a 3rd pairing Dman. What I noticed that has me wanting to send him to the sun is look at how tired he is before the game even starts. He looks like he is gasping for air every shift. His conditioning has really taken a hit and brought his decision-making and everything else down. He cant continue to playing 20 minutes. 15 or less should be okay.

Muzzin hasnt been perfect either but thats also cause he hasn't had a good dman by him to help him lol. I think if Leafs know that Chychrun can play the right side, we really should be going all in on him

Not that I disagree with the leafs needing a shut down d man that can play more minutes. These are the only RD I could see being available this year Lyubushkin which I know nothing about, Miller and klingberg. Alot of the teams are fringe on the playoffs, if the jets fall off then Demelo might be an option as they might have to move a dman for cap purposes next season.

Holl has been pretty bad this year and Liljegren is pretty much NHL ready so either him or Dermott should be moved either this year or in the offseason. Mrazek and Ritchie gone should give enough cap space to resign Campbell (maybe 1M to spare but I doubt he probably get 5-6M). The 1M raise should cover for the backup goalie. That alone is still not enough cap space to fill the remaining spots with the expected RFA raises for Kase and Sandin

Going into this year I was willing to eat my words on Holl as he put up 2 b2b decent seasons in a #4 roll. But this year he just as not been good at all, I think blaming Muzzin for that is the wrong way of looking at it. Muzzin is an also having a down year but to me that is more to do with carrying around Holl. I still think Holl is a serviceable 3rd pair dman and 2M is not too much for that (My team is paying Gudbranson ~2M so I get it). However I see it as the Leafs need the cap space to make it work and with Liljegren being ready at least 1 of Holl/Dermott becomes a cap liability for them.

Raffl is a shutdown guy, kills penalties and is strong defensively at 5v5. Simmonds is a bit more reliable offensively but Toronto really isn't in need of that. Would Kiviranta instead make this trade better? Don't really see him fitting Dallas' timeline either, he is also younger and comes with an extra year

Fact is Holl has not been a 3rd pairing guy on the fourth best team in the league, third in GAA as his 20 minutes a night would indicate, third in GAA. Teams need 7 or 8 Dmen to take them through season so I really don't see how 2m in a 20 minutes RHD is a cap liability . Adding Robertson and first is a massive overpay for the difference in the current edition of Klingberg and the needs of the Leafs.

On no, going "all in" for a guy who really the Leafs can't afford next year without dismantling the team further.

I feel like you misread, I said 2M is a fair price for him but Toronto needs cap space this upcoming offseason. Maybe cap liability is the wrong term, cap casualty? Liljegren is NHL ready. Would you rather move Dermott?

I'm fine with keeping the current Leafs seven Dmen. So if Holl or Dermot are gone....can your replace them with a competent NHLer for 800,000. And for sure the 7th man plays. And I doubt the Leafs have NHL ready Dmen in their system. If the Leafs need to cap this summer, bigger cap players would have to be moved. Ritchie was big mistake as his position and cap hit was an unnecessary. Leafs musta of thought little of Campbell, as they went out got Mrazrek with three year contract.

So since we all agree Klingberg doesn't really fit the Leafs needs, the question becomes is it worth paying a premium price (a 1st and their top prospect) trying to drive a square peg in a round hole. To me the answer is obvious, no. Again we need to go no further than Tyson Barrie to see how that ended up working out. They'd be much better off going after a guy like Pysyk in Buffalo who is playing that top 4 defensive role and having success doing it.

As I stated above buying out Ritchie and moving Mrazek likely isn't enough. Unless the plan is to just not qualify Kase

Genuinely curious what you see as a "fit" for the leafs then. Because I personally think Klingberg would be an excellent addition to the roster, especially as an upgrade to Holl

I just said it, Pysyk is a much better fit for what the Leafs need than any of the big name options. He's having a quiet year in Buffalo, playing big minutes on their defensive pairing going up primarily against other teams top 2 lines, and having relative success doing so. Put him with a stronger team and I think he will rise to the occasion.

I'd take Braun from Philly over Klingberg as well.

I mean sure, nothing wrong with aiming for 2nd round I guess

Further than Klingberg would get us.

You can be serious...

You really think a healthy scratch add would get you further?

Neither would be healthy scratches. Both are on an upgrade over Holl and better suited to the Leafs needs than Klingberg.

The bottom line is that Klingberg is neither going to get the PP time nor the offensive zone usage to make him an effective add at the deadline. That isn't really debatable. You've said as much already. He is a step to the side rather than one forward for the Leafs. A big name add rather than an effective one.

And how are Pysyk and Braun not steps to the side? Both are 3rd pair dmen and not a difference maker over Holl

By what metric are you making them 3rd pair? They are both playing higher than that right now and finding relative success compared to their awful teams.

Here, some quick vizualizations of Braun's usage and results this season for you.



His usage, primarily against other teams top lines. His results:



Brings goals against down, what the Leafs need. Also picks up PK time but I have a feeling you'll let me by with that. He's doing pretty well on an awful team, and playing an awful lot, for a 3rd pair guy.

Just in general, Braun is also a big defenseman who throws a good amount of hits. The kind of guy who excels in the playoffs once refs are a bit looser.

Braun is playing on the 1st pair right now because Ellis is out and has been completely overwhelmed. Braun played well with Yandle on the 3rd pair but has really struggled higher up in the lineup. Philly's struggles should emphasize that too.

Pysyk has played the 5th most averages 5v5 minutes on the team. The only reason he played in the top 4 was because Jokiharju was out. Since his return Pysyk has played strictly on the 3rd pair with Butcher or Hagg