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Cap-testing

Créé par: SevenLeg
Équipe: 2021-22 Avalanche du Colorado
Date de création initiale: 8 janv. 2022
Publié: 8 janv. 2022
Mode - plafond salarial: Basique
Transactions
COL
MTL
  1. Barron, Justin
  2. Compher, J.T.
  3. Francouz, Pavel
  4. Choix de 1e ronde en 2023 (COL)
  5. Choix de 2e ronde en 2024 (COL)
Repêchage1e ronde2e ronde3e ronde4e ronde5e ronde6e ronde7e ronde
2022
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2023
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2024
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TAILLE DE LA FORMATIONPLAFOND SALARIALCAP HITEXCÉDENTS Info-bulleBONISESPACE SOUS LE PLAFOND SALARIAL
2281 500 000 $79 218 963 $1 741 463 $3 350 000 $2 281 037 $
Ailier gaucheCentreAilier droit
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7 000 000 $7 000 000 $
AG, C
NMC
UFA - 8
Logo de Avalanche du Colorado
6 300 000 $6 300 000 $
C
M-NTC
UFA - 2
Logo de Avalanche du Colorado
9 250 000 $9 250 000 $
AD, C
UFA - 4
Logo de Avalanche du Colorado
2 500 000 $2 500 000 $
AD, AG
UFA - 1
Logo de Avalanche du Colorado
4 500 000 $4 500 000 $
C
M-NTC
UFA - 1
Logo de Avalanche du Colorado
4 900 000 $4 900 000 $
AD, AG
UFA - 1
Logo de Canadiens de Montréal
1 150 000 $1 150 000 $
AG, AD
UFA - 1
Logo de Avalanche du Colorado
908 333 $908 333 $ (Bonis de performance850 000 $$850K)
C, AG
RFA - 2
Logo de Avalanche du Colorado
1 075 000 $1 075 000 $
AD
UFA - 1
Logo de Avalanche du Colorado
1 000 000 $1 000 000 $
C, AG, AD
UFA - 1
Logo de Avalanche du Colorado
2 000 000 $2 000 000 $
C
UFA - 2
Logo de Avalanche du Colorado
725 000 $725 000 $
AD, AG
UFA - 1
Défenseur gaucherDéfenseur droitierGardien de but
Logo de Avalanche du Colorado
4 100 000 $4 100 000 $
DG
UFA - 3
Logo de Avalanche du Colorado
9 000 000 $9 000 000 $
DD
UFA - 6
Logo de Canadiens de Montréal
5 250 000 $5 250 000 $
G
NMC
UFA - 5
Logo de Avalanche du Colorado
5 000 000 $5 000 000 $
DG/DD
UFA - 6
Logo de Avalanche du Colorado
3 500 000 $3 500 000 $
G
UFA - 1
Logo de Avalanche du Colorado
894 167 $894 167 $ (Bonis de performance2 500 000 $$2M)
DG/DD
RFA - 2
Logo de Avalanche du Colorado
6 000 000 $6 000 000 $
DD
M-NTC, NMC
UFA - 2
Logo de Canadiens de Montréal
925 000 $925 000 $
DG/DD
UFA - 1
Laissés de côtéListe des blessés (IR)Liste des blessés à long terme (LTIR)
Logo de Avalanche du Colorado
750 000 $750 000 $
DG
UFA - 1
Logo de Avalanche du Colorado
2 000 000 $2 000 000 $
DG
UFA - 1
Logo de Avalanche du Colorado
750 000 $750 000 $
C, AG, AD
UFA - 2
Logo de Avalanche du Colorado
750 000 $750 000 $
AG
UFA - 1
Équipe de réserve
Logo de Avalanche du Colorado
725 000 $725 000 $ (0 $$00 $$0)
DG/DD
UFA - 1
Logo de Avalanche du Colorado
725 000 $725 000 $ (0 $$00 $$0)
G
UFA - 1
Logo de Avalanche du Colorado
875 000 $875 000 $ (0 $$00 $$0)
DG/DD, AG
UFA - 1
Logo de Avalanche du Colorado
925 000 $925 000 $ (0 $$00 $$0) (Bonis de performance425 000 $$425K)
AG
RFA - 2
Logo de Avalanche du Colorado
925 000 $925 000 $ (0 $$00 $$0) (Bonis de performance200 000 $$200K)
C
RFA - 1
Logo de Avalanche du Colorado
750 000 $750 000 $ (0 $$00 $$0)
DD
UFA - 1

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8 janv. 2022 à 22 h 29
#1
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100% they win the Cup
SevenLeg a aimé ceci.
8 janv. 2022 à 22 h 32
#2
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Quoting: GMs
100% they win the Cup


Yeah I'm not 100% confident they should do it, I was just looking if it was somehow possible to fit Price in. I posted it just to show to people on the Season Discussion forum.
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8 janv. 2022 à 22 h 42
#3
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Stop trying to trade Price to the Avs. It absolutely will not happen.
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8 janv. 2022 à 22 h 49
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Quoting: NMAvsFan
Stop trying to trade Price to the Avs


It was literally my first attempt and not even a serious one, but sure.
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8 janv. 2022 à 23 h 1
#5
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Lehkonen sure, but I wouldnt be interested in Price or Kulak
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8 janv. 2022 à 23 h 33
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Murray isnt on LTIR, he played tonight.

And the Price avs trade scenarios have been commented on to death, we all know that it doesnt work for the Avs, they arent in the market for taking on the biggest risk in net with Price
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9 janv. 2022 à 11 h 59
#7
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Price doesn’t have trade value, I don’t know why people think he does. He hasn’t had a good regular season since what 16-17, and no magical play off run (let’s not forget MTL doesn’t even make the playoffs if there was a regular alignment last year) is going to change he was passed on in the XD, went into the PAP, hasn’t played a game this year, and even at 50% retained is owed insane money until he is basically 40. Seriously if he were worth half of the above trade value wouldn’t have some team wrangled that deal with Seattle at the XD when they had $81.5M in cap space to play with?
9 janv. 2022 à 13 h 10
#8
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Quoting: Xqb15a
Price doesn’t have trade value, I don’t know why people think he does. He hasn’t had a good regular season since what 16-17, and no magical play off run (let’s not forget MTL doesn’t even make the playoffs if there was a regular alignment last year) is going to change he was passed on in the XD, went into the PAP, hasn’t played a game this year, and even at 50% retained is owed insane money until he is basically 40. Seriously if he were worth half of the above trade value wouldn’t have some team wrangled that deal with Seattle at the XD when they had $81.5M in cap space to play with?


The "Carey Price even at 50% retained has no value" nonsense always makes me chuckle. It's an auto-defense strategy made up by 1. Canadiens haters 2. Avalanche fans that are sick of Price to COL ACGM posts. During the offseason, the 32 NHL General Managers anonymously ranked all starting goaltenders in the league. Here are the names surrounding Carey Price.

1. Andrei Vasilevskiy ($9,500,000) Average Tier rating last five seasons: 1.41
2. Connor Hellebuyck ($6,166,666) Average Tier rating last four seasons (unranked in 2017): 1.69
3. Marc-André Fleury ($7,000,000) Average Tier rating in four of last five seasons (unranked in 2020): 2.03
4. Carey Price ($5,250,000) assuming 50% retention) Average Tier rating last five seasons: 1.43
5. John Gibson ($6,250,000) Average Tier rating last five seasons: 2.09

Average Tier rating last five seasons: 1.43
Highest Tier rating: 1.00 (2016)
Lowest Tier rating: 1.90 (2018)

Price’s performance during the 2021 playoffs, helping Montreal to the Cup Final, added some more juice to an already strong base that put the goalie among the best in the world and as the favorite to start for Canada at the Olympics.

“I still think he’s one of the very best in the league. When prospects and young goalies are coming up he’s still the guy they all get compared to by our scouts. He’s slowed down a bit but his hockey brain and efficiency are both so excellent,” an executive said.

The question about the 34-year-old Price, which has come with age, is which version of Price are you going to get?

“There’s regular-season, kinda ho-hum Carey Price, but by the end of the year, he’s righted the ship in the big games where we’re reminded why he’s been anointed as one of the best goalies on the planet. … Dialed in Carey is as good as anybody. He’s a 1 in big games and 3 when he’s not very engaged and there’s nothing on the line,” said a former goalie.

Another former goalie said a change in Montreal’s goalie coach could have been a key to helping Price find that consistency.

“I saw a change last year when Sean Burke came in. I’m not saying Sean Burke is the goalie whisperer, but I’ve seen some of the work that Sean Burke has done over the last 15 years and I do think there were some really good changes that Carey Price made to his game. … When you look at the second half of the season and the playoffs last year, Carey Price was a stud,” he said.

Price entered the NHL/NHLPA player assistance program and will miss the start of the season.


Assuming Carey Price at $5.25M was made available by the Canadiens and was ranked that high by general managers themselves but that the same general managers wouldn't value him at all is hilarious.

You say that he hasn't had any magical playoffs runs? That is plain wrong. The last two playoffs the Habs would have lost in the Robin Rounds against the Penguins and in the first round against the Maple Leafs. He was that stellar, behind only Vasilevskiy. You go on and say that MTL doesn’t even make the playoffs if there was a regular alignment last year. Well, divisional imbalance happens all the time. There are always weaker divisions/conferences. In 2018-2019, the Canadiens missed the playoffs with 96 points and the Avalanche made the playoffs with 90 points.

5.25M until 40 isn't "insane" money. It's something, sure, but it's not as bad people make it seem. Lots of the league's very best goalies have played into their very late 30s/early 40s. In the last year, if there are signs of slowing down you can just play your backup, that's the thing with goalies. And even if he slows down during the last year or two, the advantages and even higher Cup chances he brings to Colorado in the early years make it worth it.

And the Expansion Draft was silly as a whole. Seattle screwed up big time with a lot of their picks. Seattle strongly considered selecting Price according to Elliotte Friedman. He was passed on because 1. He would have been selected with the full cap hit, which I admit is too much. 2. There were already talks of him missing significant time on the PAP but the details were still very unclear.

He started training over the past few weeks and is nearing a return. He hasn't played a game, true, I don't know the details of his condition but I don't see why he'd rush his remission as he must not be excited to join the 32nd team in the league and eager to join a constantly covided team with 20+ currently on the protocol and put at risk his unvaccinated wife.
9 janv. 2022 à 14 h 12
#9
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Quoting: SevenLeg
The "Carey Price even at 50% retained has no value" nonsense always makes me chuckle. It's an auto-defense strategy made up by 1. Canadiens haters 2. Avalanche fans that are sick of Price to COL ACGM posts. During the offseason, the 32 NHL General Managers anonymously ranked all starting goaltenders in the league. Here are the names surrounding Carey Price.

1. Andrei Vasilevskiy ($9,500,000) Average Tier rating last five seasons: 1.41
2. Connor Hellebuyck ($6,166,666) Average Tier rating last four seasons (unranked in 2017): 1.69
3. Marc-André Fleury ($7,000,000) Average Tier rating in four of last five seasons (unranked in 2020): 2.03
4. Carey Price ($5,250,000) assuming 50% retention) Average Tier rating last five seasons: 1.43
5. John Gibson ($6,250,000) Average Tier rating last five seasons: 2.09

Average Tier rating last five seasons: 1.43
Highest Tier rating: 1.00 (2016)
Lowest Tier rating: 1.90 (2018)

Price’s performance during the 2021 playoffs, helping Montreal to the Cup Final, added some more juice to an already strong base that put the goalie among the best in the world and as the favorite to start for Canada at the Olympics.

“I still think he’s one of the very best in the league. When prospects and young goalies are coming up he’s still the guy they all get compared to by our scouts. He’s slowed down a bit but his hockey brain and efficiency are both so excellent,” an executive said.

The question about the 34-year-old Price, which has come with age, is which version of Price are you going to get?

“There’s regular-season, kinda ho-hum Carey Price, but by the end of the year, he’s righted the ship in the big games where we’re reminded why he’s been anointed as one of the best goalies on the planet. … Dialed in Carey is as good as anybody. He’s a 1 in big games and 3 when he’s not very engaged and there’s nothing on the line,” said a former goalie.

Another former goalie said a change in Montreal’s goalie coach could have been a key to helping Price find that consistency.

“I saw a change last year when Sean Burke came in. I’m not saying Sean Burke is the goalie whisperer, but I’ve seen some of the work that Sean Burke has done over the last 15 years and I do think there were some really good changes that Carey Price made to his game. … When you look at the second half of the season and the playoffs last year, Carey Price was a stud,” he said.

Price entered the NHL/NHLPA player assistance program and will miss the start of the season.


Assuming Carey Price at $5.25M was made available by the Canadiens and was ranked that high by general managers themselves but that the same general managers wouldn't value him at all is hilarious.

You say that he hasn't had any magical playoffs runs? That is plain wrong. The last two playoffs the Habs would have lost in the Robin Rounds against the Penguins and in the first round against the Maple Leafs. He was that stellar, behind only Vasilevskiy. You go on and say that MTL doesn’t even make the playoffs if there was a regular alignment last year. Well, divisional imbalance happens all the time. There are always weaker divisions/conferences. In 2018-2019, the Canadiens missed the playoffs with 96 points and the Avalanche made the playoffs with 90 points.

5.25M until 40 isn't "insane" money. It's something, sure, but it's not as bad people make it seem. Lots of the league's very best goalies have played into their very late 30s/early 40s. In the last year, if there are signs of slowing down you can just play your backup, that's the thing with goalies. And even if he slows down during the last year or two, the advantages and even higher Cup chances he brings to Colorado in the early years make it worth it.

And the Expansion Draft was silly as a whole. Seattle screwed up big time with a lot of their picks. Seattle strongly considered selecting Price according to Elliotte Friedman. He was passed on because 1. He would have been selected with the full cap hit, which I admit is too much. 2. There were already talks of him missing significant time on the PAP but the details were still very unclear.

He started training over the past few weeks and is nearing a return. He hasn't played a game, true, I don't know the details of his condition but I don't see why he'd rush his remission as he must not be excited to join the 32nd team in the league and eager to join a constantly covided team with 20+ currently on the protocol and put at risk his unvaccinated wife.


Yeah. And how many games has he played since? How old is it? What’s his cap hit? Why was he in the Player assist program? Conveniently ignoring all of the important facts while quoting biased MTL media/bloggers ignoring what other teams would actually give for a guy with so many question marks. MTL fans act like it 16/17 ignore what everybody else says and what other GM’s would say in negotiations. The risk taking on Prices contract particularly on a cup contender just doesn’t make it worth it for a team like the Avs.
9 janv. 2022 à 14 h 16
#10
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Quoting: Xqb15a
Yeah. And how many games has he played since? How old is it? What’s his cap hit? Why was he in the Player assist program? Conveniently ignoring all of the important facts while quoting biased MTL media/bloggers ignoring what other teams would actually give for a guy with so many question marks. MTL fans act like it 16/17 ignore what everybody else says and what other GM’s would say in negotiations. The risk taking on Prices contract particularly on a cup contender just doesn’t make it worth it for a team like the Avs.


Did you bother reading my post? I addressed all those questions lmao and I proved you wrong on so many levels that you're coming up with fallacies as I haven't quoted a single MTL media but whatever, think what you want.
9 janv. 2022 à 14 h 38
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Quoting: SevenLeg
Did you bother reading my post? I addressed all those questions lmao and I proved you wrong on so many levels that you're coming up with fallacies as I haven't quoted a single MTL media but whatever, think what you want.


No you didn’t you, you miss read what I said when I said “and no magical playoff run is going to change ….” and then proceed to post a bunch of opinion fluff and talk about why he wasn’t selected in the XD siting the exact reasons I did as the reason a team wouldn’t select him. You don’t think Seattle talked to teams about selecting him and trading him, fresh off the magical playoff run? You don’t think a team like the Avs wouldn’t have worked out something with Seattle saving a 1st and RHD NHL ready prospect in Timmins if they thought Price were the answer? Yet somehow 6 months later and no games played the Avs are going to trade even MORE assets for a guy that hasn’t played?
9 janv. 2022 à 16 h 23
#12
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Based on Montreal-based writers (Basu, Godin, LeBrun) Price at 50% retained seems to be attractive to contenders, and the names that keep coming up are COL and EDM. Price seems to want out, with a rebuild on the horizon, Bergavin gone, and his willingness to waive for expansion, and seeing how Gorton treated Lundqvist at the end. Since PLB is one of the few insiderzzz that Sakic talks to, COL has no NHL roster goalie's signed for next year, and the team for all their extremely smart analytical moves (Toews, Nichushkin, Burakovsky, Girard) has a streak of old school hockey in their decision-making (MacDermid) their could conceivably be a fit there, in spite of most most of the unlikely agms, there might be something to @SevenLeg 's thought experiment ... GMs do love Price, esp. after the last play-off run, even if I'm in agreement with @xqb15a and @coga16 that based on his last several regular seasons, injury history, and current health difficulties, COL shouldn't take the risk.

General thoughts:
1. This would have to be an off-season trade, as Price would have to 'prove' mental and physical health by playing games this season.
2. 50% for 4 years is A LOT to retain even for a rebuilding team with deep pockets, and MON would much prefer to take bad money back instead. Thing is, COL doesn't really have any - EJohnson's contract isn't long enough, he is valued so highly by the org for whom he just did a solid waiving his NMC for expansion, and he has a modified NTC which most likely has all Canadian teams on it. This makes EDM a more likely partner than COL, if MON took on some combination of Smith, Ceci, Barrie, Klefbom.
3. COL's cap structure means that they don't want to pay more than 5.5 for a starter - why they wouldn't bring back Grubauer. It's hard to get a starter for that, but Price at 50% fits. COL is a very disciplined abt cap structure and isn't willing to deviate until they get MacK re-signed. However, Kuemper isn't yet playing himself into more than a 5.5 contract, and the team had wanted him for awhile and paid a lot to get him. Francouz is looking good (and before he got hurt 2 seasons ago was challenging Grubauer for the starter role), has an opportunity this season to demonstrate health and reliability, and wouldn't be due a large contract next year because he's been out for so long. Depending on how the season and play-offs go, one of them could be well positioned to be the starter for the next several years at a price point that fits COL's cap structure. There is the 'COL effect' of how goalies look behind the team, front offices are noticing the difference between Grubauer from COL->SEA, and COL doesn't want to pay for this glow up.
4. COL don't have LTI contracts to shift, which MON would want since they will be in LTI for a while with Weber - depending on Klefbom's status, EDM might.
5. Price ages 35-39 at 5.25mil for 4 years with an NMC and an un-buyout-able contract is a big risk - with it looking likely that games in Canada may end up having to be played w/o gate revenue, the cap won't rise as quickly as the league seemed to think in the autumn. His contract is also signing bonus heavy, something COL's ownership doesn't like. If by season's end one of Kuemper or Francouz look like a reliable starter for less than 5.25x4, then COL is in a position to be choosy.
6. Price has to want out for the trade to happen, and Gorton/Molson/MON have to REALLY want him out in order to retain so much for so long. Moving Price would be a signature move of the new regime, and I think it would be hard for them to do PR wise w/o getting back what looks like a prime return, and based on the above, I don't think COL would be willing to give that.

TLDR - a COL-MON Price trade might be somewhat conceivable, but probably not on terms that most MON fans would like.
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9 janv. 2022 à 16 h 27
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Quoting: lrw2105
Based on Montreal-based writers (Basu, Godin, LeBrun) Price at 50% retained seems to be attractive to contenders, and the names that keep coming up are COL and EDM. Price seems to want out, with a rebuild on the horizon, Bergavin gone, and his willingness to waive for expansion, and seeing how Gorton treated Lundqvist at the end. Since PLB is one of the few insiderzzz that Sakic talks to, COL has no NHL roster goalie's signed for next year, and the team for all their extremely smart analytical moves (Toews, Nichushkin, Burakovsky, Girard) has a streak of old school hockey in their decision-making (MacDermid) their could conceivably be a fit there, in spite of most most of the unlikely agms, there might be something to SevenLeg 's thought experiment ... GMs do love Price, esp. after the last play-off run, even if I'm in agreement with xqb15a and coga16 that based on his last several regular seasons, injury history, and current health difficulties, COL shouldn't take the risk.

General thoughts:
1. This would have to be an off-season trade, as Price would have to 'prove' mental and physical health by playing games this season.
2. 50% for 4 years is A LOT to retain even for a rebuilding team with deep pockets, and MON would much prefer to take bad money back instead. Thing is, COL doesn't really have any - EJohnson's contract isn't long enough, he is valued so highly by the org for whom he just did a solid waiving his NMC for expansion, and he has a modified NTC which most likely has all Canadian teams on it. This makes EDM a more likely partner than COL, if MON took on some combination of Smith, Ceci, Barrie, Klefbom.
3. COL's cap structure means that they don't want to pay more than 5.5 for a starter - why they wouldn't bring back Grubauer. It's hard to get a starter for that, but Price at 50% fits. COL is a very disciplined abt cap structure and isn't willing to deviate until they get MacK re-signed. However, Kuemper isn't yet playing himself into more than a 5.5 contract, and the team had wanted him for awhile and paid a lot to get him. Francouz is looking good (and before he got hurt 2 seasons ago was challenging Grubauer for the starter role), has an opportunity this season to demonstrate health and reliability, and wouldn't be due a large contract next year because he's been out for so long. Depending on how the season and play-offs go, one of them could be well positioned to be the starter for the next several years at a price point that fits COL's cap structure. There is the 'COL effect' of how goalies look behind the team, front offices are noticing the difference between Grubauer from COL->SEA, and COL doesn't want to pay for this glow up.
4. COL don't have LTI contracts to shift, which MON would want since they will be in LTI for a while with Weber - depending on Klefbom's status, EDM might.
5. Price ages 35-39 at 5.25mil for 4 years with an NMC and an un-buyout-able contract is a big risk - with it looking likely that games in Canada may end up having to be played w/o gate revenue, the cap won't rise as quickly as the league seemed to think in the autumn. His contract is also signing bonus heavy, something COL's ownership doesn't like. If by season's end one of Kuemper or Francouz look like a reliable starter for less than 5.25x4, then COL is in a position to be choosy.
6. Price has to want out for the trade to happen, and Gorton/Molson/MON have to REALLY want him out in order to retain so much for so long. Moving Price would be a signature move of the new regime, and I think it would be hard for them to do PR wise w/o getting back what looks like a prime return, and based on the above, I don't think COL would be willing to give that.

TLDR - a COL-MON Price trade might be somewhat conceivable, but probably not on terms that most MON fans would like.


That was a thoughtful and well nuanced post. Thanks for this read. The trade above was just a cap experiment to prove a point, I'm not saying this should be a move COL 100% make but I'm willing to die on the hill that Price at 50% is a valuable piece.
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10 janv. 2022 à 15 h 14
#14
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Quoting: SevenLeg
That was a thoughtful and well nuanced post. Thanks for this read. The trade above was just a cap experiment to prove a point, I'm not saying this should be a move COL 100% make but I'm willing to die on the hill that Price at 50% is a valuable piece.


Thanks for the kind words. I may disagree with other COL watchers on whether Price @50% retained has value, I do not think he would return what some MON fans seem to think - i.e. https://www.capfriendly.com/forums/thread/542490 - I think his return might be too low to justify the trade from MON's perspective.
 
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