Tampa Bay right now. Been using LTIR all season. Seabrook is their long term LTIR player.

Their roster (aside from fringe players) is completely healthy right now. They are cap compliant.

Forwards - $45.580
Defence - $25.375
Goalies - 10.400
Total - 81.355

They don't get to exceed the $81.5M (in active players) just because Seabrook is there and on LTIR.

Paid for taking on REAL high dollar amounts. Arizona needs only contracts with low salary but high cap. This is helping them reach the cap floor, while paying very little in actual dollars. It doesn't hurt the Habs at all, they're not paying his salary, the insurance is and they are rebuilding so that cap space is not needed. Plus you are forgetting that the Habs are retaining on Kessel for Arizona as well. That adds to what they get paid back also.

Habs are doing Arizona the favor here. not vice versa. Arizona can choose to take on other teams cap dumps but other than a few layers around the league only few of them have low salary, high cap deals. They'd be paying more money out their pocket for the payment. Which judging by Arizona's recent news, I don't think they are flowing with extra cash to spend.

Arizona isn't putting Weber on LTIR. They don't want cap relief. They want to reach the cap floor next year. Teams are not forced to put players on LTIR because they are injured, it is a benefit to teams who want to use it. They can keep the player on the roster. He just wouldn't play.

Kessel wouldn't waive to go to NYR? He's being told whats going on. MTL has no interest in keeping him..... MTL is only facilitating the move for NYR... Arizona is maximizing the value they're getting back because they can only retain a max of 50% themselves, they need a second team to retain an additional 50%. Otherwise NYR would have to take Kessel back @ 3.4M cap hit, which they may not have the space for.




See above. You guys are getting hung up on the wrong thing here. Kessel knows he's going to NYR. MTL is just helping the trade happen by retaining salary for NYR.




So what is the alternative? Pay players actual money? Arizona is trying to rebuild but aside from that they are cash poor. The Habs are helping them reach the floor while they rebuild. Easily and with very little actual cash paid out. If they decide they want to start competing in 2 years, they'll naturally add players and simply put Weber on LTIR, letting them exceed the cap ceiling. This is a win win situation for them, im not sure why MTL is doing this for them for free? The Habs could just keep Weber and use the same strategy but the difference between MTL and ARI is MTL isn't cash poor. They can afford to spend money easily where Arizona cannot. Thats the benefit of having Weber on their roster. It can help them reach the cap floor if thats what they need and help them exceed the cap ceiling if thats what they need. Hell, they can even trade him again to another team in the same situation in the future.

There is very little downside here. Weber is never coming back. Its all but confirmed. His contract is just a tool at this point. Just like so many other players contracts before him.

If say the bruins were to trade for weber right now. they would get the additional relief pool for weber this year thats helpful for this year sure, however that only helps for 1 year. once the offseason comes, he reverts to active again, and you have to fit his cap hit under the cap before you can proceed to ltir. Its really not that much of a long term benefit to teams looking to get "under the cap"

Im not sure about in season cap exceeding, so ill let someone else explain that but in the offseason the cap is raised to like 90+ million to help teams make trades and what not. It only goes back to 81.5M once the season starts again at which Weber goes on LTIR again. But that's if habs are trading Weber to Boston, which they aren't in this scenario. There is a very specific reason I chose Arizona in this scenario.

Not how it works. Bruins would have to have the space to acquire Weber, and then they place him on LTIR - net effect zero.

It makes sense for Arizona. It's a good idea.

no i know, i was stating for everyone else saying weber's ltir is an asset. it really isnt. offseason you can exceed cap by 10% yes but you still cant be over the cap when you place him on ltir. so if you have 90m cap space and you use webers 7.8 and another guy and you get to 10m. that still has to find UNDER the cap ceiling. you dont get 10m extra cap, you get 10m relief.

using webers cap for arizona is like what ottawa did with guys like callahan, and what anaheim did with backes (although he was still active...) they had less money owed than their cap hits so they took on the players to get to the floor.

I dont know how it works trading ltir within season, i dont know if he has to come off to go back on or if its a simple straight swap. if i recall tampa did it with riley nash and it was a simple straight add straight to their ltir relief pool. he didnt have to fit under the cap because he was part of the pool to begin with?

i was operating under the assumption he was already on LTIR.

Yeah when it comes to in season stuff and exceeding the limit, I defer because its too much math for me. Haha

But yeah im mainly speaking to reaching for the cap floor efficiently more than exceeding the cap ceiling here for Arizona.

Nash was acquired by the Leafs last year. He was injured (LTIR) when they acquired him, but they still needed the capspace in order to acquire him as you can't have players transfer straight to LTIR.

Leafs had to place Freddy Anderson on LTIR (retroactively) in order to make room for Nash. They then placed Nash on LTIR a couple of days later.

So they made enough room for $2.75M, then moved $2.75M to LTIR - net effect zero (this is a simplified version, obviously contract was pro-rated and all that fun).

so then like i said previously theres no reason a team would acquire weber in season to utilize the LTIR relief. they would need to have space for him to begin with and most dont. which is why moving him to arizona in the offseason makes a boatload of sense.

There's no reason for any team to acquire Weber to utilize LTIR relief (at any time). The only benefit is what is proposed in this ACGM, using his contract to hit the floor, and pay little to nothing in real $$.

It is for teams that have little to no cap space. It's already happened with Tampa and Kucherov. Toronto and Lupul, Horton, Clarkson... Chicago with Shaw.

I mean, you should read the LTIR FAQ here on capfriendly, because I've had to do a lot of research with Gardiner on LTIR...

You can acquire a player on LTIR - Riley Nash last year is a great example, Nathan Horton and David Clarkson are also good examples. Brent Seabrook too.

That did not give those teams cap space

Still incorrect

But you can... it literally happened last year.

Yes. The Leafs acquired Nash. They put Freddy Anderson on LTIR in order to have the capspace to acquire Nash. They then put Nash on LTIR. He played in the playoffs when there was no longer capspace.

This is why in my very first response I said Weber situation is obviously not like Kucherov.

Gardiner situation is 100% different from acquiring a LTIR "retired" player.

Even if you read the FAQs on here, you didn't interpret them correctly.

I think you guys talking about different things. Where you're both arguing slightly differing points where you're technically both right.

- Yes a player can be traded while he's on LTIR.
- Simply acquiring a player whose on LTIR does not automatically give you cap space.

In order to benefit from it, "cap shenanigans" need to happen in which other players on the team need to be placed on LTIR and the player you are acquiring needs to be taken off LTIR simultaneously, kept on the roster, while injured for a while and then placed back on LTIR retroactively. Don't quote me on that but its something along those lines.

If Seabrook existing created magic capspace for the Lightning, wouldn't they still have one of Gourde, Coleman or Goodrow?

Or are they waiting to use their magic capspace until no one is looking closer to deadline??

As Marco said, placing a player on LTIR does not give you cap space. It is not that simple.

For the example of Toronto 2 years ago, if you took that roster and traded both Clarkson and Horton for future considerations they are a cap compliant team.

For Tampa last year. Kucherov played zero regular season games so he was on LTIR the entire regular season. At no point could he ever come off LTIR as that would put Tampa well over the cap meaning they would have to forfeit games until they are cap compliant again.

For Seabrook this year. Same thing, he will play zero games. If you were to go and make an ACGM right now that traded Seabrook to like Arizona (or somewhere else doesnt matter) for nothing at all in return Tampa's cap would not change.Z


The easiest way to look at it is to just say their cap hit is negated. in reality they are using the ACSL but those LTIR players are still counting against the cap