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Thinking outside the box Shea Weber trade

Créé par: F50marco
Équipe: 2021-22 Canadiens de Montréal
Date de création initiale: 7 janv. 2022
Publié: 7 janv. 2022
Mode - plafond salarial: Basique
Description
Notes

- Weber is only owed 6M over the final 4 years of the contract which comes out to 1.5M a year which most is paid out by insurance. Gives Arizona 7.8M in cap to reach cap floor for the next 4 years though. Even if Weber did come back miraculously, that's still only 1.5M in actual dollars per year on avg for a 7.8M cap hit.
- Kessel is only owed 1M in actual dollars this final year of his contract so at the TDL the amount ARI/MTL actually on the hook for is very low so they want to retain as much as possible to help the 3rd teams cap situation. Team that gets Kessel gets him at 1.7M cap hit but only like 50K in actual salary owed for a playoff run.


**Habs get rid of Webers contract and get their 2024 2nd back in exchange for retaining 1.7M of cap and like 50K of actual dollars.
**Arizona gets full value for a Kessel trade since cap space is hard to find this year for contenders, while adding a big cap hit, low salary contract to their books for 4 years.
**NYR get playoff performer Kessel for only 1.7M cap hit and like 50K in actual dollars for a couple picks.
Transactions
1.
MTL
  1. Kessel, Phil (3 400 000 $ retained)
  2. Choix de 2e ronde en 2024 (MTL)
2.
MTL
  1. Choix de 2e ronde en 2022 (STL)
  2. Choix de 3e ronde en 2023 (NYR)
Détails additionnels:
Doesn't have to be Rangers - any team
NYR
  1. Kessel, Phil (1 700 000 $ retained)
3.
MTL
ARI
  1. Choix de 2e ronde en 2022 (STL)
  2. Choix de 3e ronde en 2023 (NYR)
Rachats de contrats
Transactions impliquant une retenue de salaire
Repêchage1e ronde2e ronde3e ronde4e ronde5e ronde6e ronde7e ronde
2022
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2023
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2024
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TAILLE DE LA FORMATIONPLAFOND SALARIALCAP HITEXCÉDENTS Info-bulleBONISESPACE SOUS LE PLAFOND SALARIAL
3481 500 000 $78 055 060 $597 561 $1 475 000 $3 444 940 $
Ailier gaucheCentreAilier droit
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5 500 000 $5 500 000 $
AG, AD
M-NTC
UFA - 2
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863 333 $863 333 $ (Bonis de performance537 500 $$538K)
C
UFA - 1
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6 500 000 $6 500 000 $
AD, AG
M-NTC, NMC
UFA - 6
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4 500 000 $4 500 000 $
AG
UFA - 3
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750 000 $750 000 $
C, AG
UFA - 2
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950 000 $950 000 $
C, AG, AD
UFA - 1
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1 150 000 $1 150 000 $
AG, AD
UFA - 1
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750 000 $750 000 $
C
UFA - 1
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880 833 $880 833 $ (Bonis de performance300 000 $$300K)
AG, AD
UFA - 2
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825 000 $825 000 $
AG, AD
RFA - 2
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4 450 000 $4 450 000 $
C
UFA - 4
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750 000 $750 000 $
C, AD
UFA - 1
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2 125 000 $2 125 000 $
AD, AG
UFA - 3
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950 000 $950 000 $
AG, AD, C
UFA - 1
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5 500 000 $5 500 000 $
AD, AG
M-NTC
UFA - 6
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750 000 $750 000 $
AG, AD
UFA - 1
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3 400 000 $3 400 000 $
AD, AG
UFA - 4
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750 000 $750 000 $
AG, C
UFA - 1
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3 400 000 $3 400 000 $
AG, AD
UFA - 2
Défenseur gaucherDéfenseur droitierGardien de but
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1 750 000 $1 750 000 $
DG/DD
M-NTC
UFA - 1
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2 343 750 $2 343 750 $
DD
M-NTC, NMC
UFA - 4
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10 500 000 $10 500 000 $
G
NMC
UFA - 5
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875 000 $875 000 $
DG/DD
M-NTC
UFA - 3
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3 500 000 $3 500 000 $
DD
UFA - 4
Logo de Canadiens de Montréal
2 875 000 $2 875 000 $
G
UFA - 2
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925 000 $925 000 $
DG/DD
UFA - 1
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750 000 $750 000 $
DD
UFA - 1
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880 833 $880 833 $
G
RFA - 1
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894 167 $894 167 $ (Bonis de performance637 500 $$638K)
DG
RFA - 1
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750 000 $750 000 $
DD
UFA - 1
Logo de Canadiens de Montréal
750 000 $750 000 $
G
UFA - 1
Logo de Canadiens de Montréal
761 250 $761 250 $
DG/DD
RFA - 1
Logo de Canadiens de Montréal
750 000 $750 000 $
G
UFA - 1
Logo de Canadiens de Montréal
750 000 $750 000 $
DG/DD
UFA - 1

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7 janv. 2022 à 1 h 17
#1
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I think we’d do it.
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7 janv. 2022 à 1 h 47
#2
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Weber is a negative value contract right now.

Arizona can get paid by other teams to reach the floor over the next couple years
7 janv. 2022 à 3 h 36
#3
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Quoting: Ledge_And_Dairy
Weber is a negative value contract right now.

Arizona can get paid by other teams to reach the floor over the next couple years


I highly disagree with this. LTIR deals right now are a major part in teams being able to get under the cap. They're rare, and come at a premium.
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7 janv. 2022 à 4 h 25
#4
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Quoting: Caniac2000
I highly disagree with this. LTIR deals right now are a major part in teams being able to get under the cap. They're rare, and come at a premium.


LTIR does not give cap space
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7 janv. 2022 à 4 h 48
#5
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Quoting: Ledge_And_Dairy
LTIR does not give cap space


LTIR counts against the cap like any other contract, but allows you to exceed the upper limit. Arizona isn't concerned about the upper limit here. They want to use the non-relief value towards their cap to reach the floor.
7 janv. 2022 à 4 h 50
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Quoting: ricochetii
LTIR counts against the cap like any other contract, but allows you to exceed the upper limit. Arizona isn't concerned about the upper limit here. They want to use the non-relief value towards their cap to reach the floor.


Yes but there are plenty of teams willing to pay to get under the cap over the next couple years, so why would Arizona pay premium on a cap hit instead
7 janv. 2022 à 4 h 52
#7
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Quoting: Ledge_And_Dairy
Yes but there are plenty of teams willing to pay to get under the cap over the next couple years, so why would Arizona pay premium on a cap hit instead


To save $18M. Big deal when you can't afford rent. wink
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7 janv. 2022 à 4 h 53
#8
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Quoting: ricochetii
To save $18M. Big deal when you can't afford rent. wink


it's not saving 8M if they need that cap space within the next 6 years
7 janv. 2022 à 4 h 55
#9
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Modifié 7 janv. 2022 à 5 h 6
After all of his fun with Canadian media, Kessel probably has Montreal on his no trade list. Probably wouldnt even want to have his contract laundered in canada. 😉

In all seriousness, Arizona should just simplify the trade and deal directly with NYR (or whoever the target team is) and maximize getting futures.
7 janv. 2022 à 6 h 24
#10
Silentfox1
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I dont think Kessel waives for MTL. But not a bad outside the box idea.
7 janv. 2022 à 6 h 26
#11
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Quoting: Caniac2000
I highly disagree with this. LTIR deals right now are a major part in teams being able to get under the cap. They're rare, and come at a premium.


Lol. How does this myth still have so many people believing it's true.

I blame Frank Seravelli.

Or the Kucherov situation last year (which obviously doesn't apply here).
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7 janv. 2022 à 6 h 27
#12
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Quoting: Ledge_And_Dairy
LTIR does not give cap space


It allows overage, which is important with so many teams pressed for cap space right now
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7 janv. 2022 à 6 h 29
#13
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Quoting: Barilko14
Lol. How does this myth still have so many people believing it's true.

I blame Frank Seravelli.


It allows teams to go over the cap... did you forget when your Leafs did it with Horton, Lupul, Clarkson... etc?
7 janv. 2022 à 7 h 12
#14
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Quoting: Caniac2000
It allows overage, which is important with so many teams pressed for cap space right now


No thats not exactly how LTIR works
7 janv. 2022 à 7 h 23
#15
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Quoting: Caniac2000
It allows teams to go over the cap... did you forget when your Leafs did it with Horton, Lupul, Clarkson... etc?


Lol.....

Yeah, I remember, it's why I know how it works.

Look at TB today. How much does there active roster cost? Approx 81.5m or approx 88.5m? Seabrook's caphit is almost $7m, so if what you believe is actually true, then their active players should cost about 88.5m.

Let me know.
7 janv. 2022 à 7 h 44
#16
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Quoting: Barilko14
Lol.....

Yeah, I remember, it's why I know how it works.

Look at TB today. How much does there active roster cost? Approx 81.5m or approx 88.5m? Seabrook's caphit is almost $7m, so if what you believe is actually true, then their active players should cost about 88.5m.

Let me know.


The idea is to have a $5M player on LTIR, then add a $1M player, leaving you with an "extra" $4M. (For example)
7 janv. 2022 à 7 h 59
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Quoting: ricochetii
The idea is to have a $5M player on LTIR, then add a $1M player, leaving you with an "extra" $4M. (For example)

That’s not how LTIR works.

Let’s say you’re sitting at 80M and then add Weber (let’s say 7M) you’re now at 87M. You place Weber on LTIR you’re back at 80M, net 0.

You’ve technically exceeded the upper limit but it’s net 0 return for your active roster.
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7 janv. 2022 à 8 h 26
#18
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Quoting: ricochetii
The idea is to have a $5M player on LTIR, then add a $1M player, leaving you with an "extra" $4M. (For example)


Long story short. Teams can acquire LTIR players in order to hit the floor (see Ottawa recently).

Teams cannot acquire LTIR players to exceed the cap.

See TB active roster is at approx 81.5, not 88.5. Seabrook on LTIR is not providing them any cap advantages. They acquired him in order to fit rid of Johnson.
7 janv. 2022 à 8 h 32
#19
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Quoting: Ledge_And_Dairy
it's not saving 8M if they need that cap space within the next 6 years


Are they actually going to need that cap in the next few years? Seems unlikely unless something big happens
7 janv. 2022 à 8 h 39
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Quoting: MountRoyal
Are they actually going to need that cap in the next few years? Seems unlikely unless something big happens


Well are they going to need cap space for 6 years to reach the floor? Very unlikely. So sure if Weber was free or if Montreal was trying to unload his cap hit Arizona would take him at a cost but there is zero logic to Arizona paying for him
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7 janv. 2022 à 8 h 40
#21
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Quoting: BStinson
That’s not how LTIR works.

Let’s say you’re sitting at 80M and then add Weber (let’s say 7M) you’re now at 87M. You place Weber on LTIR you’re back at 80M, net 0.

You’ve technically exceeded the upper limit but it’s net 0 return for your active roster.


You're back at $80M, but you also have a pool of money to dip into to replace Weber.
$7M (Weber's contract) - $1.5M (Remaining cap space) = $5.5M LTIR pool. No?
7 janv. 2022 à 8 h 43
#22
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Quoting: ricochetii
You're back at $80M, but you also have a pool of money to dip into to replace Weber.
$7M (Weber's contract) - $1.5M (Remaining cap space) = $5.5M LTIR pool. No?


No.

Teams can replace injured players. Example if Tavares was done for the season tomorrow, Leafs could grab an approx $11m player.

Teams cannot acquire a LTIR player to do this. As the amount spent on active roster will not change.
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7 janv. 2022 à 8 h 45
#23
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Well, it might be good idea the Weber to Arizona for Arizona to reach the cap floor, Arizona isn't paying the Habs for the pleasure. But Arizona shouldn't be planning to be at the cap floor for the next four years. Maybe they just want to start being good team and needing real cap on real hockey players soon.
7 janv. 2022 à 8 h 45
#24
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Quoting: Barilko14
No.


Can you elaborate? If I have it wrong I'd like to know why.
7 janv. 2022 à 9 h 1
#25
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Quoting: ricochetii
Can you elaborate? If I have it wrong I'd like to know why.



Teams can replace injured players. Example if Tavares was done for the season tomorrow, Leafs could grab an approx $11m player.

Their active roster would still only cost $81.5m.

Teams cannot acquire a LTIR player to do this. As the amount spent on active roster will not change.
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