Forums/Armchair-GM

Resetting for the future

Créé par: Knuckl3s
Date de création initiale: 1 déc. 2021
Publié: 1 déc. 2021
Équipe: 2021-22 Canucks de Vancouver
Explications
Building around certain core players. Shipping out some key players and exchanging them for support pieces that hopefully are a better fit, while acquiring a few additional future assets
Transactions
1.
VAN
  1. Haula, Erik
  2. DeBrusk, Jake
BOS
  1. Dickinson, Jason
  2. Pearson, Tanner
2.
VAN
  1. Appleton, Mason
  2. Donskoi, Joonas
  3. Järnkrok, Calle
  4. 2023 2e round pick (WPG)
  5. 2022 4e round pick (CGY)
SEA
  1. Boeser, Brock
  2. Lammikko, Juho
  3. Chiasson, Alex
3.
VAN
  1. Murphy, Connor
  2. Connolly, Brett
CHI
  1. Myers, Tyler
4.
VAN
  1. Fiala, Kevin
  2. 2022 2e round pick (MIN)
MIN
  1. Miller, J.T.
5.
VAN
  1. Zub, Artem
  2. 2022 7e round pick (NYI)
  3. 2023 7e round pick (NSH)
OTT
  1. Poolman, Tucker
  2. 2023 2e round pick (VAN)
  3. 2022 4e round pick (VAN)
Rachats de contrats
  • Braden Holtby: 500 000 $
  • Jake Virtanen: 50 000 $
Frais appliqués
  • Roberto Luongo: 3 035 212 $
Enfoui
  • Brett Connolly: 2 375 000 $ (3 500 000 $)
ANNÉE DE REPÊCHAGERONDE 1RONDE 2RONDE 3RONDE 4RONDE 5RONDE 6RONDE 7
2022
VAN
MIN
WPG
CGY
VAN
VAN
VAN
NYI
2023
VAN
WPG
VAN
VAN
VAN
VAN
NSH
2024
VAN
VAN
VAN
VAN
VAN
VAN
VAN
TAILLE DE LA FORMATIONPLAFOND SALARIALCAP HITEXCÉDENTS BONISESPACE SOUS LE PLAFOND SALARIAL
2381 500 000 $79 610 659 $648 780 $3 400 000 $1 889 341 $

Formation

Ailier gaucheCentreAilier droit
MIN
Fiala, Kevin
5 100 000 $
AG, AD
RFA - 1
VAN
Pettersson, Elias
7 350 000 $
C
RFA - 3
VAN
Garland, Conor
4 950 000 $
AG, AD
UFA - 5
VAN
Höglander, Nils
891 667 $
AG, AD
RFA - 2
VAN
Horvat, Bo
5 500 000 $
C
UFA - 2
VAN
Podkolzin, Vasily
925 000 $
AD
RFA - 3
BOS
DeBrusk, Jake
3 675 000 $
AG
RFA - 1
BOS
Haula, Erik
2 375 000 $
C, AG
UFA - 2
SEA
Donskoi, Joonas
3 900 000 $
AD
UFA - 2
VAN
Motte, Tyler
1 225 000 $
AG, AD
UFA - 1
SEA
Appleton, Mason
900 000 $
AD, C
RFA - 1
SEA
Järnkrok, Calle
2 000 000 $
AG, C, AD
UFA - 1
VAN
Highmore, Matthew
725 000 $
AG, AD
RFA - 1
VAN
Dowling, Justin
750 000 $
C, AG
UFA - 2
Défenseur gaucherDéfenseur droitierGardien de but
VAN
Ekman-Larsson, Oliver
7 260 000 $
DG
NMC
UFA - 6
CHI
Murphy, Connor
3 850 000 $
DD
UFA - 1
VAN
Demko, Thatcher
5 000 000 $
G
UFA - 5
VAN
Hughes, Quinn
7 850 000 $
DG
UFA - 6
OTT
Zub, Artem
2 500 000 $
DD
UFA - 2
VAN
Halák, Jaroslav
1 500 000 $
G
NMC
UFA - 1
VAN
Rathbone, Jack
925 000 $
DG
RFA - 1
VAN
Hamonic, Travis
3 000 000 $
DD
NTC
UFA - 2
VAN
Schenn, Luke
850 000 $
DD
UFA - 2
Laissés de côtéListe des blessés (IR)Liste des blessés à long terme (LTIR)
VAN
Ferland, Micheal
3 500 000 $
AG, AD
NTC
UFA - 2
VAN
Sutter, Brandon
1 125 000 $
AD, C
UFA - 1

Unités spéciales

Avantage numérique 1
Garland, C.
Podkolzin, V.
Pettersson, E.
Horvat, B.
Hughes, Q.
Avantage numérique 2
Järnkrok, C.
DeBrusk, J.
Höglander, N.
Fiala, K.
Ekman-Larsson, O.
Infériorité numérique 1
Motte, T.
Donskoi, J.
Ekman-Larsson, O.
Murphy, C.
Infériorité numérique 2
Järnkrok, C.
Appleton, M.
, .
Hamonic, T.

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1 déc. 2021 à 4 h 37
#1
Vegan Commie Hipster
Rejoint: oct. 2020
Messages: 7,888
Mentions "j'aime": 3,256
Miller the UFA gets a better return than Boeser the younger RFA despite being similar level players right now is my concern though not too much better

Reckon chi have too many big contracts already

Chi fans really seem to over value him too so...
1 déc. 2021 à 5 h 45
#2
Rejoint: avr. 2018
Messages: 1,245
Mentions "j'aime": 516
You’re miles away on Zub
sensonfire, OwnGoal et NDoody a aimé ceci.
1 déc. 2021 à 5 h 57
#3
sensonfire
Rejoint: févr. 2021
Messages: 5,443
Mentions "j'aime": 1,844
We are not giving you our best RD for a cap dump and a 3rd round pick.

Try again.
NDoody a aimé ceci.
1 déc. 2021 à 6 h 43
#4
Bruins fan
Rejoint: déc. 2020
Messages: 1,160
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No
1 déc. 2021 à 8 h 58
#5
Rejoint: juill. 2016
Messages: 2,078
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Ok there's still people who have no idea who Artem Zub is.
NDoody, cooliny et sensonfire a aimé ceci.
1 déc. 2021 à 9 h 17
#6
Rejoint: nov. 2017
Messages: 2,502
Mentions "j'aime": 1,386
Quoting: Xspyrit
Ok there's still people who have no idea who Artem Zub is.


Relatable. Picked him up on fantasy waivers 3 weeks ago. Hes been cash money
Xspyrit, OwnGoal, NDoody and 1 other person a aimé ceci.
1 déc. 2021 à 11 h 48
#7
Colin
Rejoint: nov. 2020
Messages: 666
Mentions "j'aime": 350
Quoting: Xspyrit
Ok there's still people who have no idea who Artem Zub is.


ARTEM ZOOOOOOOOOB
OwnGoal et Xspyrit a aimé ceci.
1 déc. 2021 à 15 h 35
#8
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Quoting: TheBoyDuddus
You’re miles away on Zub


Quoting: sensonfire
We are not giving you our best RD for a cap dump and a 3rd round pick.

Try again.


Quoting: Xspyrit
Ok there's still people who have no idea who Artem Zub is.


Okay, I like to think I recognize that Artem Zub is obviously Ottawa's no. 2 defenseman behind Chabot, but you can't deny that his contract literally walks him straight to free agency, so that doesn't help his value, plus he hasn't been in the NHL that long anyway. And no, Poolman isn't a Cap dump, he's a decent third pairing defenseman who could maybe use a change of scenery. Since Ottawa doesn't seem to be ready to contend, I'm simply proposing that maybe Zub is expendable if he can't be extended
1 déc. 2021 à 15 h 42
#9
Rejoint: juin 2019
Messages: 4,676
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lol if you think the bruins are going to sell that low on debrusk and haula keep dreaming.
1 déc. 2021 à 15 h 46
#10
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Quoting: hanson493
lol if you think the bruins are going to sell that low on debrusk and haula keep dreaming.


Either people are undervaluing Pearson and Dickinson or they are overvaluing Haula and Debrusk, it's honestly baffling to me. Maybe you guys are just biased Bruins fans or something, because I don't see any lopsidedness in value here AT ALL, I genuinely think this trade would be perfect for both teams, since all four players seem like they could use a change of scenery
1 déc. 2021 à 16 h 5
#11
Rejoint: juin 2020
Messages: 2,107
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Quoting: Knuckl3s
Either people are undervaluing Pearson and Dickinson or they are overvaluing Haula and Debrusk, it's honestly baffling to me. Maybe you guys are just biased Bruins fans or something, because I don't see any lopsidedness in value here AT ALL, I genuinely think this trade would be perfect for both teams, since all four players seem like they could use a change of scenery


It's both in all honesty. I think you're bang on with value in regards to that trade.
1 déc. 2021 à 16 h 7
#12
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Quoting: RazWild
It's both in all honesty. I think you're bang on with value in regards to that trade.


OMG, THANK YOU THANK YOU THANK YOU SO MUCH! I was really starting to get worried that I was alone in thinking this
1 déc. 2021 à 16 h 20
#13
Rejoint: juin 2020
Messages: 2,107
Mentions "j'aime": 1,714
Quoting: Knuckl3s
OMG, THANK YOU THANK YOU THANK YOU SO MUCH! I was really starting to get worried that I was alone in thinking this


Well, to be fair. Your values a little hit or miss for the rest of your trades. But that one is spot on.

Fiala and a 2nd is absolutely fair value for Miller. As much as Nuck's fans don't want to hear it. But given the circumstances right now, I think it'll take an overpay to get him out of Vancouver. To the tune of a prospect like Beckman or Hunt

Boeser's value is on par with Fiala's. Canucks need to be getting back more there.

Murphy for Myers straight up would be fair.

And you've been blasted enough by Sens fans to understand where you messed up on that one.
1 déc. 2021 à 16 h 39
#14
Rejoint: juin 2019
Messages: 4,676
Mentions "j'aime": 1,994
Quoting: Knuckl3s
Either people are undervaluing Pearson and Dickinson or they are overvaluing Haula and Debrusk, it's honestly baffling to me. Maybe you guys are just biased Bruins fans or something, because I don't see any lopsidedness in value here AT ALL, I genuinely think this trade would be perfect for both teams, since all four players seem like they could use a change of scenery


Quoting: RazWild
It's both in all honesty. I think you're bang on with value in regards to that trade.


Pearson 29 YO is at best a mid 40 point player hes got 25 in his last 74 .3378 point%
Dickinson 26 YO 18 in 72 at best a 3rd line center realistically hes a 4th liner. (bruins have a million of these guys)

Haula 30 YO 24 in his last 69. guys been about a .5 ppg player for the last 4 years of his career. off to a real rough start with the bruins though yeah.
Debrusk 25 YO 20 in his last 59... his first 3 years he was trending towards becoming a 50+ point player. He had a really hard time with covid separation rules and hasnt been the same since.

the upside debrusk and haula still carry FAR outweigh pearson and dickinson coming back in this deal. Thats not being a homer for boston thats seeing that pearson has struggled just as much as debrusk has and is the worse player and the drop from haula to dickinson is gross. This deal would do more damage than it would help the bruins. rather just keep debrusk and haula for that package.
1 déc. 2021 à 17 h 27
#15
Rejoint: juin 2020
Messages: 2,107
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Quoting: hanson493
Pearson 29 YO is at best a mid 40 point player hes got 25 in his last 74 .3378 point%
Dickinson 26 YO 18 in 72 at best a 3rd line center realistically hes a 4th liner. (bruins have a million of these guys)

Haula 30 YO 24 in his last 69. guys been about a .5 ppg player for the last 4 years of his career. off to a real rough start with the bruins though yeah.
Debrusk 25 YO 20 in his last 59... his first 3 years he was trending towards becoming a 50+ point player. He had a really hard time with covid separation rules and hasnt been the same since.

the upside debrusk and haula still carry FAR outweigh pearson and dickinson coming back in this deal. Thats not being a homer for boston thats seeing that pearson has struggled just as much as debrusk has and is the worse player and the drop from haula to dickinson is gross. This deal would do more damage than it would help the bruins. rather just keep debrusk and haula for that package.


Pearson's value is at an all time low. Same for DeBrusk. Their value right now, is identical.

Pearson=DeBrusk... 1v1

Dickinson is an extremely solid 3rd liner. Haula hasn't been the same since he had back to back injury riddled seasons that required surgery on his left knee. He is what he is, at this point.

Dickinson=Haula... 1v1

The trade is spot on in terms of current value for all envolved.
Knuckl3s a aimé ceci.
1 déc. 2021 à 17 h 34
#16
Rejoint: juin 2019
Messages: 4,676
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Quoting: RazWild
Pearson's value is at an all time low. Same for DeBrusk. Their value right now, is identical.

Pearson=DeBrusk... 1v1

Dickinson is an extremely solid 3rd liner. Haula hasn't been the same since he had back to back injury riddled seasons that required surgery on his left knee. He is what he is, at this point.

Dickinson=Haula... 1v1

The trade is spot on in terms of current value for all envolved.


haula has higher than a 20 point potential. dickinsons best season was 22 points.. haula had 55. The bruins problem is scoring dickinson doesnt do that. Pearson and debrusk have a 4 year age gap. their value is not the same. Debrusk still has upside Pearson doesnt.
1 déc. 2021 à 17 h 34
#17
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Quoting: RazWild
Well, to be fair. Your values a little hit or miss for the rest of your trades. But that one is spot on.

Fiala and a 2nd is absolutely fair value for Miller. As much as Nuck's fans don't want to hear it. But given the circumstances right now, I think it'll take an overpay to get him out of Vancouver. To the tune of a prospect like Beckman or Hunt

Boeser's value is on par with Fiala's. Canucks need to be getting back more there.

Murphy for Myers straight up would be fair.

And you've been blasted enough by Sens fans to understand where you messed up on that one.


It would be great if the highest bidder for Miller this trade deadline had to overpay a little to get him

I would argue Boeser's value is at least a 3rd round pick more than Fiala's, he's got a more credible track record than Fiala does

You really believe Myers for Murphy 1 for 1 is fair value? If so, I'd take that in a heartbeat if I'm the Canucks

Yeah, I admit I was too cheap with the Zub trade, but I hope I fixed it somewhat now
1 déc. 2021 à 17 h 37
#18
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Quoting: hanson493
haula has higher than a 20 point potential. dickinsons best season was 22 points.. haula had 55. The bruins problem is scoring dickinson doesnt do that. Pearson and debrusk have a 4 year age gap. their value is not the same. Debrusk still has upside Pearson doesnt.


Debrusk is already 25, if he has any more upside, it's very minimal, he pretty much is what he is at this point I'd say. Pearson is still a quality 3rd line grinder, and he's only 29 so he's not that old, I honestly don't understand why so many people throw Pearson under the bus

And you're crazy if you think Haula is ever going to eclipse the 55 point mark he did back in 17-18. You do realize context is a huge factor with that supposed supernova of a season he had that season right?
1 déc. 2021 à 17 h 49
#19
Rejoint: juin 2019
Messages: 4,676
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Quoting: Knuckl3s
Debrusk is already 25, if he has any more upside, it's very minimal, he pretty much is what he is at this point I'd say. Pearson is still a quality 3rd line grinder, and he's only 29 so he's not that old, I honestly don't understand why so many people throw Pearson under the bus

And you're crazy if you think Haula is ever going to eclipse the 55 point mark he did back in 17-18. You do realize context is a huge factor with that supposed supernova of a season he had that season right?


I dont think Haula will come close to 55. Im just saying one guy has offensive ability, the other really does not. dickinson is a 4th line center. he is not capable of 30+ points that we have seen. Looking strictly at last year. haula 34 point pace dickinson 24. year before covid dickinson 26 point pace, haula 44. one player is clearly better and carries more value.

in terms of debrusk. this is his 5th year in the league. years 1-3 he had 120 in 203 scoring at an almost 60% pace. last year was the covid year he admitted to struggling being away from the team and had alot of issues trying to get consistency. this year hes got 6 in 18 where the bruins are playing him all over the place and hasnt had consistent linemates. Ide say debrusk was an issue if the rest of the line was scoring and he wasnt. the bruins entire bottom 6 isnt scoring. hes leading them... pearson in a top 6 role is scoring less or equal to debrusk who is in a bottom 6 role. how is that equal?
1 déc. 2021 à 18 h 26
#20
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Quoting: hanson493
I dont think Haula will come close to 55. Im just saying one guy has offensive ability, the other really does not. dickinson is a 4th line center. he is not capable of 30+ points that we have seen. Looking strictly at last year. haula 34 point pace dickinson 24. year before covid dickinson 26 point pace, haula 44. one player is clearly better and carries more value.

in terms of debrusk. this is his 5th year in the league. years 1-3 he had 120 in 203 scoring at an almost 60% pace. last year was the covid year he admitted to struggling being away from the team and had alot of issues trying to get consistency. this year hes got 6 in 18 where the bruins are playing him all over the place and hasnt had consistent linemates. Ide say debrusk was an issue if the rest of the line was scoring and he wasnt. the bruins entire bottom 6 isnt scoring. hes leading them... pearson in a top 6 role is scoring less or equal to debrusk who is in a bottom 6 role. how is that equal?


First of all, I don't think Debrusk is going to be a top six winger going forward, I expect his production to be more indicative of a middle-six winger like Tanner Pearson is, that's why I see equal value there. Also, Dickinson is still a credible 3rd line center option, I don't think he can be dismissed as a no. 4 center just yet. I honestly wouldn't give Haula the benefit of the doubt offensively anymore. I think he's closer to a 25-30 point guy than a 40-point player nowadays despite his decent track record offensively. Plus Haula is older than Dickinson and probably doesn't possess quite as much defensive utility as Dickinson does
1 déc. 2021 à 19 h 11
#21
Rejoint: juin 2020
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Quoting: Knuckl3s
First of all, I don't think Debrusk is going to be a top six winger going forward, I expect his production to be more indicative of a middle-six winger like Tanner Pearson is, that's why I see equal value there. Also, Dickinson is still a credible 3rd line center option, I don't think he can be dismissed as a no. 4 center just yet. I honestly wouldn't give Haula the benefit of the doubt offensively anymore. I think he's closer to a 25-30 point guy than a 40-point player nowadays despite his decent track record offensively. Plus Haula is older than Dickinson and probably doesn't possess quite as much defensive utility as Dickinson does


He doesn't, and I can assure you, he never did.
1 déc. 2021 à 21 h 55
#22
Rejoint: avr. 2018
Messages: 1,245
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Quoting: Knuckl3s
Okay, I like to think I recognize that Artem Zub is obviously Ottawa's no. 2 defenseman behind Chabot, but you can't deny that his contract literally walks him straight to free agency, so that doesn't help his value, plus he hasn't been in the NHL that long anyway. And no, Poolman isn't a Cap dump, he's a decent third pairing defenseman who could maybe use a change of scenery. Since Ottawa doesn't seem to be ready to contend, I'm simply proposing that maybe Zub is expendable if he can't be extended


The idea that he could be moved if he can't be extended is fair, the only issue is that he was just extended less than 6 months ago. If we were having this conversation this time next year then you might be on to something. Even then, I agree Poolman isnt a cap dump but him and a 2nd would still be a little disappointing.

Your premsise is sound tho!
1 déc. 2021 à 22 h 46
#23
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Quoting: TheBoyDuddus
The idea that he could be moved if he can't be extended is fair, the only issue is that he was just extended less than 6 months ago. If we were having this conversation this time next year then you might be on to something. Even then, I agree Poolman isnt a cap dump but him and a 2nd would still be a little disappointing.

Your premsise is sound tho!


That's a fair point, thanks!
TheBoyDuddus a aimé ceci.
2 déc. 2021 à 8 h 42
#24
Rejoint: juill. 2016
Messages: 2,078
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Quoting: Knuckl3s
Okay, I like to think I recognize that Artem Zub is obviously Ottawa's no. 2 defenseman behind Chabot, but you can't deny that his contract literally walks him straight to free agency, so that doesn't help his value, plus he hasn't been in the NHL that long anyway. And no, Poolman isn't a Cap dump, he's a decent third pairing defenseman who could maybe use a change of scenery. Since Ottawa doesn't seem to be ready to contend, I'm simply proposing that maybe Zub is expendable if he can't be extended


You know who else has an expiring contract in the same off-season as Zub? Nathan MacKinnon, David Pastrnak, Dylan Larkin, Matt Dumba, Jonathan Huberdeau, Bo Horvat...

Yes, the GM Pierre Dorion has no idea what he is doing but that is another subject, we are talking about wehat should be the value here in the real NHL market. He rushed to give Zub that2 years extension and called the future on RD "set" because both JBD and Thomson will be ready by then and they also have elite defender Nikita Zaitsev (like I said, he has no idea what is going on)

Zub shouldn't be expendable in any way, shape or form but with Dorion, here we are. Hopefully, changes happen asap but if not, hopefully Dorion is able to extend him. Zub is only 26 y/o and what this team misses the most is QUALITY veterans. It's a few good young players and a bunch of below average/depth veterans. Of course the team struggles, who would have thought?

All that being said, if it comes down to trading Zub, that return is laughable and would just go on Dorion's terrible resume as a GM

Quoting: Knuckl3s
Yeah, I admit I was too cheap with the Zub trade, but I hope I fixed it somewhat now


No.
2 déc. 2021 à 9 h 9
#25
Rejoint: juin 2019
Messages: 4,676
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Quoting: Knuckl3s
First of all, I don't think Debrusk is going to be a top six winger going forward, I expect his production to be more indicative of a middle-six winger like Tanner Pearson is, that's why I see equal value there. Also, Dickinson is still a credible 3rd line center option, I don't think he can be dismissed as a no. 4 center just yet. I honestly wouldn't give Haula the benefit of the doubt offensively anymore. I think he's closer to a 25-30 point guy than a 40-point player nowadays despite his decent track record offensively. Plus Haula is older than Dickinson and probably doesn't possess quite as much defensive utility as Dickinson does


Quoting: RazWild
He doesn't, and I can assure you, he never did.


Whole point is the bottom 6 needs an OFFENSIVE upgrade. adding dickinson doesnt solve anything. its actually making it worse. Ide rather keep haula than grab another bottom 6 forward who cant score. Haula at 25-30 is still more than youll get out of dickinson offensively (even though theres nothing suggesting haula will be that low by the end of the season...).

as a bruins fan, pass on debrusk for pearson. we can keep going round and round, pearson doesnt hold the value you think he does. on pace for 27.33 points this year. at 3.25m for the next 3 years. hes averaging almost 2 minutes less a game and scoring as much as pearson with a slightly higher shot percentage. Easily think that with a more constant role and 16 minutes of ice time hes going to propel back to being a 20+ goal and 40+ point player.
 
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