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Minnesota probably offered for JT Miller what Vancouver paid to get him in 2019

Créé par: sensonfire
Équipe: 2021-22 Wild du Minnesota
Date de création initiale: 23 nov. 2021
Publié: 23 nov. 2021
Mode - plafond salarial: Basique
Description
https://theprovince.com/sports/hockey/nhl/vancouver-canucks/canuck-j-t-millers-time-might-be-on-the-line-amid-wild-interest?


https://www.hockeywilderness.com/2021/11/22/22797791/nhl-trade-rumors-minnesota-wild-vancouver-canucks-fiala-miller


https://www.capfriendly.com/trades/players/jt-miller
Transactions
1.
MIN
  1. Choix de 4e ronde en 2022 (WPG)
2.
VAN
  1. Hammond, Andrew
  2. Choix de 1e ronde en 2022 (MIN)
  3. Choix de 3e ronde en 2022 (MIN)
Détails additionnels:
If Minnesota does not make the playoffs in 2021-2022, the 2022 1st round pick will transfer to a 2023 1st round pick instead.
3.
MIN
TBL
    This is similar to what Vancouver paid to get JT Miller from Tampa in June of 2019.
    4.
    MIN
      However, I don't think trading JT Miller would be in the best interests of the Canucks.
      VAN
        And I think the Canucks have bigger problems to worry about.

        Like this one:

        https://dailyhive.com/vancouver/factions-developed-canucks-front-office
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        23 nov. 2021 à 9 h 18
        #1
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        Agree with the take here. Moving Fiala for Miller doesn’t move the needle for the Wild in terms of a cup, not to mention you give up a future to do it.

        I’m just not sure why the narrative that they might “go for it” this year started. They aren’t a cup contender even if they are a solid team.
        sensonfire a aimé ceci.
        23 nov. 2021 à 9 h 32
        #2
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        Quoting: jnowariak
        Agree with the take here. Moving Fiala for Miller doesn’t move the needle for the Wild in terms of a cup, not to mention you give up a future to do it.

        I’m just not sure why the narrative that they might “go for it” this year started. They aren’t a cup contender even if they are a solid team.


        The fact that they are currently the Central Division leader may have something to do with it.
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        23 nov. 2021 à 9 h 34
        #3
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        I would do these trades immediately. Which kind of tells me that they're probably slanted too much in the Wild's favor. But I don't know how much value VAN is placing on Miller yet.
        sensonfire a aimé ceci.
        23 nov. 2021 à 9 h 39
        #4
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        Quoting: Wildwinswhen
        The fact that they are currently the Central Division leader may have something to do with it.


        It does, and it’s fools gold IMO. Our backend is fine for a run but we don’t have enough scoring depth and our goalies are suspect.
        sensonfire et Caerii a aimé ceci.
        23 nov. 2021 à 9 h 48
        #5
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        Quoting: jnowariak
        Agree with the take here. Moving Fiala for Miller doesn’t move the needle for the Wild in terms of a cup, not to mention you give up a future to do it.

        I’m just not sure why the narrative that they might “go for it” this year started. They aren’t a cup contender even if they are a solid team.


        I think people are looking at the cap recapture from Parise and Suter and saying "well if not now when?"
        jnowariak et sensonfire a aimé ceci.
        23 nov. 2021 à 9 h 54
        #6
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        Quoting: Rangsey
        I think people are looking at the cap recapture from Parise and Suter and saying "well if not now when?"


        I’ve always thought the answer was a pretty clear “in four years.” 🤷🏻‍♂️
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        23 nov. 2021 à 10 h 48
        #7
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        Quoting: jnowariak
        I’ve always thought the answer was a pretty clear “in four years.” 🤷🏻‍♂️


        While it's the right answer. It's a harder sell when you had so much success last season.
        You have a small amount of success then you go all in, to hell with the cap ramifications. What could possibly go wrong *cough*Canucks*cough
        23 nov. 2021 à 10 h 53
        #8
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        Quoting: Rangsey
        While it's the right answer. It's a harder sell when you had so much success last season.
        You have a small amount of success then you go all in, to hell with the cap ramifications. What could possibly go wrong *cough*Canucks*cough


        Why don’t Wild fan see the go for it mentality is exactly what got the Canucks into trouble?
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        23 nov. 2021 à 10 h 58
        #9
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        Quoting: jnowariak
        Why don’t Wild fan see the go for it mentality is exactly what got the Canucks into trouble?


        Because it's also what got the Lightning two cups. :-)
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        23 nov. 2021 à 11 h 0
        #10
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        Quoting: Rangsey
        Because it's also what got the Lightning two cups. :-)


        Tampa also had Stammer, Point, Kuch, Hedman, and Vasy before those trades….
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        23 nov. 2021 à 11 h 3
        #11
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        Quoting: jnowariak
        Tampa also had Stammer, Point, Kuch, Hedman, and Vasy before those trades….


        Agreed. :-) Vancouver had Pettersson, Horvat, Miller, Boeser, Demko, Hughes before those trades. :-p it's easy to overrate your situation.
        I'm agreeing with you. Patience is key. But there are enough shiny pieces in Minnesota to convince someone that now is the time.
        23 nov. 2021 à 16 h 0
        #12
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        That’s what Van gave up to get Miller and his value has probably close to doubled since being in Vancouver that doesn’t even get the conversation started for a Miller trade
        sensonfire a aimé ceci.
        23 nov. 2021 à 16 h 7
        #13
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        Quoting: jnowariak
        It does, and it’s fools gold IMO. Our backend is fine for a run but we don’t have enough scoring depth and our goalies are suspect.


        The d-corps isn't fine. MN has is scoring depth is spades right now. It's the top end players that aren't scoring for them. The goalies are awful (part is on them, part is on the weak d-corps).
        Caerii et sensonfire a aimé ceci.
        23 nov. 2021 à 16 h 12
        #14
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        Quoting: wabit
        The d-corps isn't fine. MN has is scoring depth is spades right now. It's the top end players that aren't scoring for them. The goalies are awful (part is on them, part is on the weak d-corps).


        Defense is the definition of "fine" when healthy, but as when Kulikov and Merrill have to play up the lineup it's very clearly not fine. Goligoski is very weak as a #4. Spurgeon has been disappointing for the responsibility that has been thrust upon him.

        It's not a Cup run defense. It's going to get shredded in the playoffs, and Talbot is an average backup goalie, so he's not going to win you any games.

        Scoring depth is good, but when is it going to dry up? Foligno and Hartman on pace for 50-60 points isn't sustainable, and I'm not sure how much the scoring is going to improve from the top guys. Fiala has zero support and Kaprizov/Zuccarello are pretty close to topped out.
        23 nov. 2021 à 16 h 38
        #15
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        Quoting: Caerii
        Defense is the definition of "fine" when healthy, but as when Kulikov and Merrill have to play up the lineup it's very clearly not fine. Goligoski is very weak as a #4. Spurgeon has been disappointing for the responsibility that has been thrust upon him.

        It's not a Cup run defense. It's going to get shredded in the playoffs, and Talbot is an average backup goalie, so he's not going to win you any games.

        Scoring depth is good, but when is it going to dry up? Foligno and Hartman on pace for 50-60 points isn't sustainable, and I'm not sure how much the scoring is going to improve from the top guys. Fiala has zero support and Kaprizov/Zuccarello are pretty close to topped out.


        I’ll disagree about the d corps, but you’ve articulated my argument for lack of scoring depth better than I did. Foligno and Hartman aren’t scorers. You need 2 or 3 Fialas to be a cup contender and moving him for a C doesn’t get us closer to that.

        Sure, I’d take Miller for Fiala straight up or even add a 2nd but I don’t think it actually improves the team that much.
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        23 nov. 2021 à 17 h 8
        #16
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        Quoting: Caerii
        Defense is the definition of "fine" when healthy, but as when Kulikov and Merrill have to play up the lineup it's very clearly not fine. Goligoski is very weak as a #4. Spurgeon has been disappointing for the responsibility that has been thrust upon him.

        It's not a Cup run defense. It's going to get shredded in the playoffs, and Talbot is an average backup goalie, so he's not going to win you any games.

        Scoring depth is good, but when is it going to dry up? Foligno and Hartman on pace for 50-60 points isn't sustainable, and I'm not sure how much the scoring is going to improve from the top guys. Fiala has zero support and Kaprizov/Zuccarello are pretty close to topped out.


        I see the d-corps, when healthy, as a 1 x 1D (low end), 2 x 4D, 2 x 5D, 1 x pressbox quality d-man. Brodin can carry one of the 4D and make an okay top pair; that is ideally a great 2nd pair. Kulikov should be able to carry Addison (he should be on the every day roster) as a 3rd pair. It just leaves the 2nd pair as very weak overall; it's more like 3rd pair "A" and 3rd pair "B" (the 5v5 ToI reflects this so far this year).

        Foligno is down from his 5v5 /60 pace from the last 2 seasons (1.7p/60 this year, 2.3 p/60 last 2 seasons combined). The PP points are helping to bloating his stats. I think the PP points will drop off a little (7.2p/60 now to around 5.0 p/60). So he shouldn't really fall off much from where he is now overall.

        Hartman is riding a very hot streak. 20g and 40-50p overall is where I see him ended the season.

        It's not just those 2 with the depth scoring. Every FWD (except Greenaway) with any amount of playing time has chipped in a couple of goals here and there. All of those players should be able to maintain similar output for the rest of the season (except Pitlick)
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        23 nov. 2021 à 17 h 32
        #17
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        Quoting: jnowariak
        I’ll disagree about the d corps, but you’ve articulated my argument for lack of scoring depth better than I did. Foligno and Hartman aren’t scorers. You need 2 or 3 Fialas to be a cup contender and moving him for a C doesn’t get us closer to that.

        Sure, I’d take Miller for Fiala straight up or even add a 2nd but I don’t think it actually improves the team that much.


        Take out the 36 combined goals (2g/game) scored by Foligno, JEE, Hartman, Fiala, Kaprizov, and Zucc. This leaves 27 goals scored by the rest of the team so far this year; that is 1.5 g/game made by depth scoring.

        The top 6 goal scorers from MN last year was Kaprizov, Fiala, JEE, Zucc, Foligno, and Sturm. So a 1 player change in that group this year. The difference is that Kaprizov and Fiala aren't scoring (yet, hopefully) this year.
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