Forums/Armchair-GM

At this point its disrespectful

Créé par: Islesforthecup
Date de création initiale: 20 nov. 2021
Publié: 21 nov. 2021
Équipe: 2021-22 Islanders de New York
Explications
Its not just disrespectful to the young guys anymore its disrespectful to the rest of the team, the organization, and the fan base. Barry has to be held accountable for his terrible lineup decisions, and delusional performance evaluations. At this point the only solution i see is to let him go. Lane Lambert could take over and i think hed do a fine job.
As for guys like wahly and dobson, it wont just mean they arent set up to fail (like 26 on the 4th line) but they will also gain confidence bc they only have to take responsibility for their own mistakes not the veterans' mistakes also.
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21 nov. 2021 à 19 h 42
#1
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>Cizikas at 1RD

bold strategy, Cotton, let’s see if it pays out for them.
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21 nov. 2021 à 19 h 42
#2
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Phillip Danault has done everything we'd hoped for when we signed him, and more.

Alex Edler has done everything we'd hoped for when we signed him.

Viktor Arvidsson, the jury's still out on due to the COVID setback.

In short, we won't be trading any of our recent acquisitions because we're entirely happy with them.

I agree with your sentiments about Trotz completely.
21 nov. 2021 à 19 h 42
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LOL. When Trotz took over the Islanders they were horrible and the worst defensive team in the league. He made them one of the best defensive teams in one year and has had them in the playoffs every year......yeah, he stinks, fire him asap.
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21 nov. 2021 à 19 h 43
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Only running 3 centres? Goddamn, here I was thinking the Habs were crazy for their "anyone can play anywhere" lineup methodology lol
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21 nov. 2021 à 20 h 1
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Quoting: delneggs
LOL. When Trotz took over the Islanders they were horrible and the worst defensive team in the league. He made them one of the best defensive teams in one year and has had them in the playoffs every year......yeah, he stinks, fire him asap.


You obviously dont watch the games.
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21 nov. 2021 à 20 h 13
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Quoting: Islesforthecup
You obviously dont watch the games.


As a Ranger fan I am painfully aware of how good the Islanders have become under Trotz. You seem to have forgotten how bad they were before he was hired. But...as a Ranger fan, I'm all for them firing him...by all means.
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21 nov. 2021 à 20 h 17
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Quoting: delneggs
LOL. When Trotz took over the Islanders they were horrible and the worst defensive team in the league. He made them one of the best defensive teams in one year and has had them in the playoffs every year......yeah, he stinks, fire him asap.


Dont get me wrong trotz did a ton for this team in the last couple of years. Like you said, they couldnt stop a goal to save their lives and then trotz taught them defensive responsibility. Ive always said this and i maintain my position, trotz is a great 'Xs and Os' coach, but he really lacks some common sense. His performance evaluations are just flat out crazy and his bias against younger players is puzzling.
I appreciate what hes done since he came, however imo him having success here is over. I say let him go now before
1- things get messier and 2- the season is lost. Hes tought the guys how to play defense and how to play responsibly and i know its not as simple as that but the progress they would make from keeping him around is minimal if anything. He is a coach who fits an older team who isnt expected to do well and can really motivate a team and a motivated team that plays physical and good defense can win. But after a while it starts to wear on you. Hes great at getting guys to overperform, up to a certain point. But when theyre expected to do well, and he doesnt have that underdog mentality to motivate them, he loses his biggest asset.
He may have lost a championship already with 1st line leo and playing zajac over wahlstrom.

As for your point about the playoffs, thats lou. He built a championship caliber roster with cap flexibilty. Theres a reason hes won the jim gregory award the last 2 years.
21 nov. 2021 à 20 h 18
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Quoting: delneggs
As a Ranger fan I am painfully aware of how good the Islanders have become under Trotz. You seem to have forgotten how bad they were before he was hired. But...as a Ranger fan, I'm all for them firing him...by all means.


1- this team doesnt look very good defensively rn.
2- they cant buy a goal atm.
When you cant score, and also cant stop your opponent from scoring you arent going to win very many games.
21 nov. 2021 à 20 h 25
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Quoting: delneggs
As a Ranger fan I am painfully aware of how good the Islanders have become under Trotz. You seem to have forgotten how bad they were before he was hired. But...as a Ranger fan, I'm all for them firing him...by all means.


Trotz is such a great coach he broke up the best D pair in hockey so Pulock can babysit Zdeno chara.
21 nov. 2021 à 21 h 11
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Quoting: Islesforthecup
Dont get me wrong trotz did a ton for this team in the last couple of years. Like you said, they couldnt stop a goal to save their lives and then trotz taught them defensive responsibility. Ive always said this and i maintain my position, trotz is a great 'Xs and Os' coach, but he really lacks some common sense. His performance evaluations are just flat out crazy and his bias against younger players is puzzling.
I appreciate what hes done since he came, however imo him having success here is over. I say let him go now before
1- things get messier and 2- the season is lost. Hes tought the guys how to play defense and how to play responsibly and i know its not as simple as that but the progress they would make from keeping him around is minimal if anything. He is a coach who fits an older team who isnt expected to do well and can really motivate a team and a motivated team that plays physical and good defense can win. But after a while it starts to wear on you. Hes great at getting guys to overperform, up to a certain point. But when theyre expected to do well, and he doesnt have that underdog mentality to motivate them, he loses his biggest asset.
He may have lost a championship already with 1st line leo and playing zajac over wahlstrom.

As for your point about the playoffs, thats lou. He built a championship caliber roster with cap flexibilty. Theres a reason hes won the jim gregory award the last 2 years.


The Isle franchise turned around with the hire of Lamarillo, a hall of fame GM, and bringing in Trotz, flat out one of the best coaches in the game. With basically the same personnel he turned them into a playoff team in his first season. The last 2 years they lost tough series to Tampa Bay, which in nothing to hang your head about. Both of them are the reason the Isles are a good team now and to fire Trotz would be crazy IMO. They have had a tough start, but they have been on the road for all but one game. I would bet a lot of money that they will be in the playoffs again this year, they are too good not to be. And this is coming from a lifelong Ranger fan that HATES the Fishsticks.
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21 nov. 2021 à 21 h 13
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Quoting: Db1899
Trotz is such a great coach he broke up the best D pair in hockey so Pulock can babysit Zdeno chara.


Well, that is certainly the best and maybe only way to judge his coaching career. Plus, they were NOT the best D pair in hockey to begin with. Very good for sure, but not the best.
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21 nov. 2021 à 21 h 22
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Quoting: delneggs
Well, that is certainly the best and maybe only way to judge his coaching career. Plus, they were NOT the best D pair in hockey to begin with. Very good for sure, but not the best.


One of his main flaws that have cost his teams throughout his career is playing washed up vets over young talent. No one is forcing Trotz to play Chara 20 min per game.

Over the last two seasons the Pelech-Pulock pair was the best D pairing in league by almost every advanced metric.
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21 nov. 2021 à 21 h 55
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Quoting: delneggs
The Isle franchise turned around with the hire of Lamarillo, a hall of fame GM, and bringing in Trotz, flat out one of the best coaches in the game. With basically the same personnel he turned them into a playoff team in his first season. The last 2 years they lost tough series to Tampa Bay, which in nothing to hang your head about. Both of them are the reason the Isles are a good team now and to fire Trotz would be crazy IMO. They have had a tough start, but they have been on the road for all but one game. I would bet a lot of money that they will be in the playoffs again this year, they are too good not to be. And this is coming from a lifelong Ranger fan that HATES the Fishsticks.


Lou was an elite hire no doubt, and trotz was great at the time as well. I just dont think he has anything left to offer here. And his obsession with old guys is just insane. Hes also not a great in game coach. Imo hed be much better off on another team and we would be better off with a different coach.
21 nov. 2021 à 23 h 48
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Quoting: Islesforthecup
Lou was an elite hire no doubt, and trotz was great at the time as well. I just dont think he has anything left to offer here. And his obsession with old guys is just insane. Hes also not a great in game coach. Imo hed be much better off on another team and we would be better off with a different coach.


I guess we need to agree to disagree about Trotz. If he were available before the Rangers hired Gallant, I would have prayed Drury hired him.
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21 nov. 2021 à 23 h 53
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Quoting: Db1899
One of his main flaws that have cost his teams throughout his career is playing washed up vets over young talent. No one is forcing Trotz to play Chara 20 min per game.

Over the last two seasons the Pelech-Pulock pair was the best D pairing in league by almost every advanced metric.


Pelech and Pulock are a really good top 2, no doubt. And I think they have Trotz to thank a little bit for his system that really stresses D, not to take anything from them. But maybe I am a bit biased as I would say Fox (Norris Trophy) and Lindgren are right there. Fox is another level good scoring AND defending and Lindgren is a solid stay at home defender. Plus, some guys in Colorado may disagree with you. But, either way, they are a really good top pair. As to Chara....I don't know, he's a hall of famer that can still play some.
21 nov. 2021 à 23 h 57
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Quoting: delneggs
Pelech and Pulock are a really good top 2, no doubt. And I think they have Trotz to thank a little bit for his system that really stresses D, not to take anything from them. But maybe I am a bit biased as I would say Fox (Norris Trophy) and Lindgren are right there. Fox is another level good scoring AND defending and Lindgren is a solid stay at home defender. Plus, some guys in Colorado may disagree with you. But, either way, they are a really good top pair. As to Chara....I don't know, he's a hall of famer that can still play some.


2 things.
1- chara can 100% NOT play some.
2- i like lindgren-fox. But the isles have 2 top 25 dmen. As great as fox is lindgren gets nowhere near that conversation. Theres also the theory that lindgren isnt as good if he doesnt have fox which imo is valid to an extent. The way i see it there are 2 pairs better than pelech pulock, toews-makar and
weegar-ekblad. Theodore-pietrangelo would also be if they played together imo.
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22 nov. 2021 à 0 h 1
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Quoting: delneggs
Pelech and Pulock are a really good top 2, no doubt. And I think they have Trotz to thank a little bit for his system that really stresses D, not to take anything from them. But maybe I am a bit biased as I would say Fox (Norris Trophy) and Lindgren are right there. Fox is another level good scoring AND defending and Lindgren is a solid stay at home defender. Plus, some guys in Colorado may disagree with you. But, either way, they are a really good top pair. As to Chara....I don't know, he's a hall of famer that can still play some.


Pulock has been top 20 among all defenseman in offensive impact over the last 3 seasons, Trotz gets undeserved credit for their success. The best thing Trotz did was recognize that they should play together. Both pelech and Pulock are two way D which is why they’re so successful. They drive play at both ends of the ice

Fox-Lindgren are up there (in the top 10 for sure) but that’s mostly because of Fox. He can play with anyone and it would be a top 10 pairing. Colorado is up there as well. The reason why Pelech-Pulock is better than both is because they drive insane results play on a team that lacks shooting talent. Can’t say the same about the Rangers/Avs

Chara is currently the worst defenseman in the NHL - he should not be a regular on a team with playoff aspirations. He’s the main reason the isles are off to a rough start. The pelech-Pulock pairing is the backbone of the isles and the #1 reason for their success over the last 3 seasons - more than Barzal, goaltending etc… Trotz cares more about making veterans feel comfortable than winning games
22 nov. 2021 à 0 h 5
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Quoting: Islesforthecup
2 things.
1- chara can 100% NOT play some.
2- i like lindgren-fox. But the isles have 2 top 25 dmen. As great as fox is lindgren gets nowhere near that conversation. Theres also the theory that lindgren isnt as good if he doesnt have fox which imo is valid to an extent. The way i see it there are 2 pairs better than pelech pulock, toews-makar and
weegar-ekblad. Theodore-pietrangelo would also be if they played together imo.


I obviously watch a lot of Ranger games and Fox/Lindgren is a pair that complements each other. Maybe Lindgren would not be as solid without Fox, but I think Fox would also suffer without Lindgren. Their games complement each other perfectly and they work as well together as any top pair I have seen in the league. The question is best top pair.....for my money, I will take a Norris winner and a guy that allows him to play that offense style of hockey because he defends so well. And they are both still kids. Not knocking any of the guys you mention as they are all top defenders. Just my opinion.
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22 nov. 2021 à 0 h 6
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Quoting: Db1899
Pulock has been top 20 among all defenseman in offensive impact over the last 3 seasons, Trotz gets undeserved credit for their success. The best thing Trotz did was recognize that they should play together. Both pelech and Pulock are two way D which is why they’re so successful. They drive play at both ends of the ice

Fox-Lindgren are up there (in the top 10 for sure) but that’s mostly because of Fox. He can play with anyone and it would be a top 10 pairing. Colorado is up there as well. The reason why Pelech-Pulock is better than both is because they drive insane results play on a team that lacks shooting talent. Can’t say the same about the Rangers/Avs

Chara is currently the worst defenseman in the NHL - he should not be a regular on a team with playoff aspirations. He’s the main reason the isles are off to a rough start. The pelech-Pulock pairing is the backbone of the isles and the #1 reason for their success over the last 3 seasons - more than Barzal, goaltending etc… Trotz cares more about making veterans feel comfortable than winning games


I think you are putting too much blame on one guy. Opening the season on a one month road trip would screw up most teams.
22 nov. 2021 à 0 h 14
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Quoting: delneggs
I think you are putting too much blame on one guy. Opening the season on a one month road trip would screw up most teams.

When Chara is on the ice, the isles defense is 22% below league average. When he is off the ice the isles defense is 4% above league average. Chara has singlehandedly cost the isles 3-4 games so far

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22 nov. 2021 à 0 h 18
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Quoting: delneggs
I think you are putting too much blame on one guy. Opening the season on a one month road trip would screw up most teams.


But its not just that chara has played terrible, its the fact that now he broke up pelech-pulock. If chara wouldve been playing 16 minutes a game it wouldnt be as big a thing.
Now yes the road trip was tough and having half the team out with covid at home was also, and i guess my issue is not really whats happened so far. Imo there are legitimate reasons for being on a skid this bad. My concern though is that when everyone gets healthy its gonna be more of the same. Sorokin singlehandedly won them a few games right at the beginning bc chara isnt an nhl player anymore yet hes playing 20 minutes a night. And thats with pulock carrying him. I just dont want to wait until barry literally has no choice either bench chara or get fired (bc thats the only way Z sits) bc by that time it will be too late.
22 nov. 2021 à 0 h 19
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Quoting: delneggs
I obviously watch a lot of Ranger games and Fox/Lindgren is a pair that complements each other. Maybe Lindgren would not be as solid without Fox, but I think Fox would also suffer without Lindgren. Their games complement each other perfectly and they work as well together as any top pair I have seen in the league. The question is best top pair.....for my money, I will take a Norris winner and a guy that allows him to play that offense style of hockey because he defends so well. And they are both still kids. Not knocking any of the guys you mention as they are all top defenders. Just my opinion.





No matter how good his partner is, this defenseman isnt going to be on the top pair in the league.
22 nov. 2021 à 0 h 25
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Quoting: OldNYIfan
Phillip Danault has done everything we'd hoped for when we signed him, and more.

Alex Edler has done everything we'd hoped for when we signed him.

Viktor Arvidsson, the jury's still out on due to the COVID setback.

In short, we won't be trading any of our recent acquisitions because we're entirely happy with them.

I agree with your sentiments about Trotz completely.


Edlers a rental. Hes 35 already and if they are out of it at the deadline hed almost certainly be available. I didnt write that but that was my thought process.
22 nov. 2021 à 0 h 26
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22 nov. 2021 à 1 h 9
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Quoting: Islesforthecup
Edlers a rental. Hes 35 already and if they are out of it at the deadline hed almost certainly be available. I didnt write that but that was my thought process.


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