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Créé par: Canucks33
Équipe: 2022-23 Canucks de Vancouver
Date de création initiale: 19 nov. 2021
Publié: 21 nov. 2021
Mode - plafond salarial: Basique
Description
Apparently before the season started Horvat told his agent and management that if things don't improve, the chances of him re-signing will be slim. I would prefer not to trade him, but after this start what can you do?
Signatures de joueurs autonomes
RFAANSCAP HIT
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  1. Barron, Justin
  2. Choix de 1e ronde en 2023 (COL)
  3. Choix de 2e ronde en 2023 (COL)
COL
  1. Miller, J.T. (1 250 000 $ retained)
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VAN
  1. Lafrenière, Alexis
  2. Choix de 2e ronde en 2022 (STL)
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WPG
  1. Choix de 3e ronde en 2022 (WPG)
Rachats de contrats
Transactions impliquant une retenue de salaire
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TAILLE DE LA FORMATIONPLAFOND SALARIALCAP HITEXCÉDENTS Info-bulleBONISESPACE SOUS LE PLAFOND SALARIAL
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Laissés de côtéListe des blessés (IR)Liste des blessés à long terme (LTIR)
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21 nov. 2021 à 1 h 15
#1
Ballards Curse
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Is Bo Horvat not gonna make the same amount of money as Hertl is? I don't think trading your captain for someone that has yet to prove himself is the right choice lol. Potential is there yeah, but yet to see it.

Also WPG declines. They are very high on Demelo
21 nov. 2021 à 1 h 38
#2
Big Shoots
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The JT Miller trade is probably close to what it would be from Colorado. I think that trade could make sense. I could see Newhook being involved though especially if we did trade Horvat. The Horvat deal would surely have to be for a RD though. And I think he could fetch a decent one. Or at least blue chip prospect plus pick.
21 nov. 2021 à 1 h 45
#3
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Rangers are not trading Laffy.
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21 nov. 2021 à 2 h 2
#4
Knuckle Danz
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Rangers will move Kravtsov before LaFreniere. A worthwhile trade (substitution) that might favor Vancouver on the long run.

Honestly, since the Rangers don't plan to re-sign him, I'd make it a Strome-Kravtsov/Horvat trade.

My two cents.
21 nov. 2021 à 2 h 25
#5
Big Shoots
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Quoting: HockeyDanz
Rangers will move Kravtsov before LaFreniere. A worthwhile trade (substitution) that might favor Vancouver on the long run.

Honestly, since the Rangers don't plan to re-sign him, I'd make it a Strome-Kravtsov/Horvat trade.

My two cents.


Probably would need to include Schneider in any deal to Horvat considering the Canucks needs and the level of player Horvat is.
21 nov. 2021 à 2 h 32
#6
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I think DeMelo is exactly what Hughes needs, but he’s probably gonna cost more then that
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21 nov. 2021 à 3 h 50
#7
Knuckle Danz
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Quoting: BigShoots
Probably would need to include Schneider in any deal to Horvat considering the Canucks needs and the level of player Horvat is.


Rangers have a ton of prospects to offer. Robertson, Henriksson, Pajuniemi, Korczak, Cuylle..just to name a few. Schneider is an ask, but likely an untouchable.
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21 nov. 2021 à 4 h 30
#8
Vegan Commie Hipster
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Quoting: TuckerPoolman
I think DeMelo is exactly what Hughes needs, but he’s probably gonna cost more then that


Totes. Seems doubtful he waives also. 😕
21 nov. 2021 à 4 h 36
#9
Vegan Commie Hipster
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Pts/60 all situations since 2020

Lafrenière 1.4
~~~~~~~~~~~
Horvat 1.4

So the gap between them overall isn't *that* big currently and disappears when Laffy enters his prime likely in a few years, he's still so so young
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21 nov. 2021 à 4 h 41
#10
Vegan Commie Hipster
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Lafrenière beside Pettersson and Garland seems like a perfect way to spark him potentially with both so capable puck control wise, neat to try at least
21 nov. 2021 à 8 h 30
#11
Jet69
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Quoting: Radu47
Totes. Seems doubtful he waives also. 😕


6 team no trade list. He may waive but I think it’s a good deal for Peg. He is probably the odd man out at this point unless Chevy were to package Heinola and a pick for forward help (like Boeser in the off seaso. for example).
21 nov. 2021 à 11 h 9
#12
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None of the teams accept that, those are all so tilted in VAN favor it isn’t funny.
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21 nov. 2021 à 11 h 28
#13
Bedard23
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Every team passes maybe not Colorado with cap retained
21 nov. 2021 à 13 h 10
#14
Big Shoots
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Quoting: HockeyDanz
Rangers have a ton of prospects to offer. Robertson, Henriksson, Pajuniemi, Korczak, Cuylle..just to name a few. Schneider is an ask, but likely an untouchable.


I don't know those guys you mention but you are talking about a captain and a 60+ point center with a history of stepping up in the playoffs. I get Schneider is a top prospect but it'd have to be Schneider plus. That said the Canucks have a stud young dman in Jack Rathbone, unfortunately he is behind Hughes and OEL on the left side who are signed for 5+ seasons so I don't know how he'll fit in. He could be packaged with Horvat for a large haul.
21 nov. 2021 à 13 h 48
#15
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Quoting: BigShoots
I don't know those guys you mention but you are talking about a captain and a 60+ point center with a history of stepping up in the playoffs. I get Schneider is a top prospect but it'd have to be Schneider plus. That said the Canucks have a stud young dman in Jack Rathbone, unfortunately he is behind Hughes and OEL on the left side who are signed for 5+ seasons so I don't know how he'll fit in. He could be packaged with Horvat for a large haul.


Then send him elsewhere. Rather just sign Strome who we know works with Panarin than make this trade.
21 nov. 2021 à 13 h 54
#16
Big Shoots
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Quoting: HOCKEYBOY448
Then send him elsewhere. Rather just sign Strome who we know works with Panarin than make this trade.


Thats your opinion but we are just playing with values. Which I would say Horvat would return a blue chip d prospect plus.
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21 nov. 2021 à 20 h 1
#17
Knuckle Danz
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Quoting: BigShoots
I don't know those guys you mention but you are talking about a captain and a 60+ point center with a history of stepping up in the playoffs. I get Schneider is a top prospect but it'd have to be Schneider plus. That said the Canucks have a stud young dman in Jack Rathbone, unfortunately he is behind Hughes and OEL on the left side who are signed for 5+ seasons so I don't know how he'll fit in. He could be packaged with Horvat for a large haul.


Your first sentence is exactly the reason why making this statement is somewhat unqualified. As both the components of the salary cap and need for depth, plays into this trade, as Vancouver should strongly consider both the now and the future.

That said, you would get blue chip prospects with Kravtsov, Robertson and Henriksson.
21 nov. 2021 à 21 h 50
#18
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If the 'nucks move Horvat I'd rather the Avs be in on that myself. Counter with Newhook, Kadri and second for Bo.
21 nov. 2021 à 23 h 54
#19
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Quoting: HockeyDanz
Your first sentence is exactly the reason why making this statement is somewhat unqualified. As both the components of the salary cap and need for depth, plays into this trade, as Vancouver should strongly consider both the now and the future.

That said, you would get blue chip prospects with Kravtsov, Robertson and Henriksson.


The prospects you listed are good, but they're not on the level necessary to convince Vancouver to give up their Captain. Whatever you place Horvat's value at for his on ice performance, add an extra 50% since he is our captain, leader and organizational face. You will not land him without moving out a quality, top-tier piece from your organization. Schneider + 1st wouldn't be enough for me for Horvat.

Quoting: TJTwolf
If the 'nucks move Horvat I'd rather the Avs be in on that myself. Counter with Newhook, Kadri and second for Bo.


I'm personally not too sure how highly I'd rate Newhook, but I'll go off his recognition around the league as a top tier prospect. He would be a great piece for a trade; I would be interested in Byram too but his injuries are concerning. As for this deal specifically, if you can find a way to keep Kadri and replace him with something else of value, it would be very, very tough to pass up.
22 nov. 2021 à 2 h 38
#20
Big Shoots
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Quoting: TJTwolf
If the 'nucks move Horvat I'd rather the Avs be in on that myself. Counter with Newhook, Kadri and second for Bo.


Kadri is basically is as good as Horvat in my mind.
22 nov. 2021 à 2 h 43
#21
Big Shoots
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Quoting: HockeyDanz
Your first sentence is exactly the reason why making this statement is somewhat unqualified. As both the components of the salary cap and need for depth, plays into this trade, as Vancouver should strongly consider both the now and the future.

That said, you would get blue chip prospects with Kravtsov, Robertson and Henriksson.


Well for starters not knowing them isn't a good sign. Having looked closer they look ok. Certainly not blue chip nor could they be the centerpiece in getting a 25 yr old captain.

Kravtsov looks the best but who knows, hes a winger not a huge organizational need. We don't need LD either.

Where does Schneider even fit in with Trouba, Fox, Lundqvist as RD. Seems likely Lundqvist or Schneider will be dealt doesn't it. Maybe both as you wont be able to get out of that Trouba deal.

Jack Rathbone is LD for the Canucks who I think will be a top 4 dman. We have no space for him though. Could be something in that perhaps.
22 nov. 2021 à 16 h 54
#22
Knuckle Danz
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Quoting: Canucks33
The prospects you listed are good, but they're not on the level necessary to convince Vancouver to give up their Captain. Whatever you place Horvat's value at for his on ice performance, add an extra 50% since he is our captain, leader and organizational face. You will not land him without moving out a quality, top-tier piece from your organization. Schneider + 1st wouldn't be enough for me for Horvat.



I'm personally not too sure how highly I'd rate Newhook, but I'll go off his recognition around the league as a top tier prospect. He would be a great piece for a trade; I would be interested in Byram too but his injuries are concerning. As for this deal specifically, if you can find a way to keep Kadri and replace him with something else of value, it would be very, very tough to pass up.


If you're going on Newhook's recognition, Kravtsov moves the needle just as much. The nice thing about the players I'm specifying, is that if the "eighth year" of the "rebuild" is as it looks the youth can be served substantially.

Adding a playmaker like Henriksson to Hoglander, takes a considerable amount of pressure off a top-line Petterson-Boeser. They also make the cap implications for further hits of Garland easier to handle.

One thing I'm concerned with, is OEL's decline kicking in, too soon. It's going to hurt and will potentially block Rathbone's NHL development. He (Rathbone) is (for example) better than Greczlyk, and might prove to be more valuable. My point is: if Benning (or another GM) is going to need to lose the battle to win the war (cap vs roster), is to lose his captain and save his current and future cap. Kravtsov is versatile, and can play both wings, which can offer the option of moving forward from guys like JT Miller and Tanner Pearson, should the Canucks so desire.

I understand your concern with "bang for your buck" in a potential swap. Considering that the cap implications are what they are, including a need to re-sign Boeser, it might be in the best interest of ownership and front office, to consider a trade that is about future more than present.
22 nov. 2021 à 17 h 43
#23
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Quoting: HockeyDanz
If you're going on Newhook's recognition, Kravtsov moves the needle just as much. The nice thing about the players I'm specifying, is that if the "eighth year" of the "rebuild" is as it looks the youth can be served substantially.

Adding a playmaker like Henriksson to Hoglander, takes a considerable amount of pressure off a top-line Petterson-Boeser. They also make the cap implications for further hits of Garland easier to handle.

One thing I'm concerned with, is OEL's decline kicking in, too soon. It's going to hurt and will potentially block Rathbone's NHL development. He (Rathbone) is (for example) better than Greczlyk, and might prove to be more valuable. My point is: if Benning (or another GM) is going to need to lose the battle to win the war (cap vs roster), is to lose his captain and save his current and future cap. Kravtsov is versatile, and can play both wings, which can offer the option of moving forward from guys like JT Miller and Tanner Pearson, should the Canucks so desire.

I understand your concern with "bang for your buck" in a potential swap. Considering that the cap implications are what they are, including a need to re-sign Boeser, it might be in the best interest of ownership and front office, to consider a trade that is about future more than present.


I don't think it's fair to say that Kravtsov's value is essentially the same as Newhook. Newhook's value is higher because 1) he's a center and 2) the possibility of bolting to Russia isn't there. I recognize the talent level that's there with Kravtsov but if there were workable flaws in his game he would be with the Rangers right now, not in Russia. He simply can't be a centerpiece in a trade as important as a Miller/Horvat deal.

Henriksson simply isn't a good enough piece for the deal either.

The cap isn't very complicated moving forward; the Canucks will have plenty of space to re-sign Boeser. The year after Miller and Horvat are both up and Miller will be the one to walk (assuming no trades are made before then). I also don't see what moving Horvat has to do with OEL blocking Rathbone.

The bottom line is if the Rangers are serious about acquiring the heart of our team, its not going to happen with your future core perfectly intact. The reason why a valuable piece like that could be moved is because the Rangers and Canucks are at different stages as organizations; the Canucks will prioritize younger, future talent while the Rangers maximize their team for the next 5 years. If that's not the case then we'll find another team that fits the description.
23 nov. 2021 à 6 h 39
#24
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Quoting: Canucks33
The prospects you listed are good, but they're not on the level necessary to convince Vancouver to give up their Captain. Whatever you place Horvat's value at for his on ice performance, add an extra 50% since he is our captain, leader and organizational face. You will not land him without moving out a quality, top-tier piece from your organization. Schneider + 1st wouldn't be enough for me for Horvat.



I'm personally not too sure how highly I'd rate Newhook, but I'll go off his recognition around the league as a top tier prospect. He would be a great piece for a trade; I would be interested in Byram too but his injuries are concerning. As for this deal specifically, if you can find a way to keep Kadri and replace him with something else of value, it would be very, very tough to pass up.


Kadri would pretty much have to be involved for cap purposes plus positional replacement or it wouldn't work for the Avs. Horvat is basically an upgraded version of Kadri, and it's merely about balancing cap, keeping VAN semi-competitive, plus Kadri would be gone the following year if you didn't want him or could flip him somewhere at the deadline for a pick or something. If VAN went full rebuild then Pettersson & Newhook would possibly be a great future 1/2 punch. Byram is arguably one of the last pieces the Avs would be likely to give up, injuries or not.
23 nov. 2021 à 6 h 52
#25
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Quoting: BigShoots
Kadri is basically is as good as Horvat in my mind.


I'd argue that Horvat is an upgrade considering what he does on a considerably weaker team, though Kadri has been playing very well this year. Main reasons for adding Kadri if you went after Horvat from the Avs PoV is cap, keeping VAN competitive, positional replacement, and the fact you're going to have to add as the team chasing the trade in most cases. That said you could argue that Newhook and a first alone might get it done if the Canucks looked to tank and rebuild and flip Kadri elsewhere.
 
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