Forums/Armchair-GM

Heres why they need to have that talk with Toews and Kane

Créé par: sound_arguments
Date de création initiale: 17 nov. 2021
Publié: 17 nov. 2021
Équipe: 2022-23 Blackhawks de Chicago
Explications
I still hear Blackhawks fans pushing for one more run with the remaining pieces of the core. But I think it's time for the franchise to lay Chelsea Dagger to rest (and bury 2010, especially, in the memory hole).

Here's what the basic roster and cap space look like for next year . . .

It's very difficult to imagine where substantial improvement could come from. I mean, they could buyout Johnson but then center is looking pretty thin, too. Trade Kubalik or one of the defense and you make more holes.

If Kane and Toews understand the team is going back to rebuilding, and that it won't make sense to center that rebuild on two 34-year olds earning 25% of the team's cap space, they may be willing to move their NMCs this summer. And before you say Toews is washed up and won't get a return, consider he's got the best CORSI on the team right now and it's actually better than his career percentage.

Note that I went with very low, conservative numbers in resigning the RFAs. Lankinen and Dach, in particular, may get much more if they have good years.
Signatures de joueurs autonomes
RFAANSCAP HIT
Dach, Kirby13 000 000 $
Gaudette, Adam21 000 000 $
Jones, Caleb21 200 000 $
Kalynuk, Wyatt21 400 000 $
Kubalik, Dominik34 500 000 $
Kurashev, Philipp31 200 000 $
Strome, Dylan33 500 000 $
Nylander, Alexander31 000 000 $
UFAANSCAP HIT
Lankinen, Kevin32 750 000 $
Subban, Malcolm11 000 000 $
Transactions
1.
CHI
  1. 2022 2e round pick (TOR)
TOR
  1. Strome, Dylan
Détails additionnels:
Leafs fans keep putting him in their trade proposals. Let's say he gets dealt at the deadline and CHI Keeps half his salary.
Enfoui
  • Brett Connolly: 2 375 000 $ (3 500 000 $)
ANNÉE DE REPÊCHAGERONDE 1RONDE 2RONDE 3RONDE 4RONDE 5RONDE 6RONDE 7
2022
CHI
TOR
EDM
TOR
VGK
CHI
CHI
CBJ
CHI
2023
CHI
CHI
TBL
CHI
CHI
CHI
CHI
CHI
2024
CHI
CHI
CHI
CHI
CHI
CHI
CHI
TAILLE DE LA FORMATIONPLAFOND SALARIALCAP HITEXCÉDENTS BONISESPACE SOUS LE PLAFOND SALARIAL
2381 500 000 $77 200 000 $0 $1 275 000 $4 300 000 $
Ailier gaucheCentreAilier droit
CHI
DeBrincat, Alex
6 400 000 $
AG, AD
RFA - 1
CHI
Dach, Kirby
3 000 000 $
C, AD
RFA
CHI
Kane, Patrick
10 500 000 $
AD
NMC
UFA - 1
CHI
Kubalik, Dominik
4 500 000 $
AG, AD
RFA
CHI
Toews, Jonathan
10 500 000 $
C
NMC
UFA - 1
CHI
Reichel, Lukas
925 000 $
AG, C
RFA - 2
CHI
Hagel, Brandon
1 500 000 $
AG
RFA - 2
CHI
Johnson, Tyler
5 000 000 $
AD, C
NTC
UFA - 2
CHI
Kurashev, Philipp
1 200 000 $
AG, AD
RFA
CHI
Khaira, Jujhar
975 000 $
C, AG
UFA - 1
CHI
Borgström, Henrik
1 000 000 $
C
RFA - 1
CHI
Gaudette, Adam
1 000 000 $
C
RFA
CHI
Nylander, Alexander
1 000 000 $
AD, AG
RFA
CHI
Entwistle, Mackenzie
800 000 $
C
RFA - 2
Défenseur gaucherDéfenseur droitierGardien de but
CHI
McCabe, Jake
4 000 000 $
DG
NTC
UFA - 3
CHI
Jones, Seth
9 500 000 $
DD
NMC
UFA - 8
CHI
Lankinen, Kevin
2 750 000 $
G
UFA
CHI
Stillman, Riley
1 350 000 $
DG
RFA - 2
CHI
Murphy, Connor
4 400 000 $
DD
NTC
UFA - 4
CHI
Subban, Malcolm
1 000 000 $
G
UFA
CHI
Jones, Caleb
1 200 000 $
DG
RFA
CHI
Mitchell, Ian
925 000 $
DD
RFA - 1
CHI
Kalynuk, Wyatt
1 400 000 $
DG
RFA

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17 nov. 2021 à 20 h 20
#1
Jeuck75
Rejoint: juill. 2019
Messages: 3,720
Mentions "j'aime": 1,493
100% agree
exo2769 et ChiHawk a aimé ceci.
17 nov. 2021 à 20 h 25
#2
Rejoint: juin 2019
Messages: 21,486
Mentions "j'aime": 11,052
I would gladly upgrade Monahan to Toews for Calgary, he would fit really well under Sutter and have excellent synergy with Mangiapane (similar to his with Hossa). Can we will this into existence?
ChiHawk a aimé ceci.
17 nov. 2021 à 20 h 31
#3
exo2769
Rejoint: juill. 2015
Messages: 11,230
Mentions "j'aime": 4,796
Quoting: Ledge_And_Dairy
I would gladly upgrade Monahan to Toews for Calgary, he would fit really well under Sutter and have excellent synergy with Mangiapane (similar to his with Hossa). Can we will this into existence?


For the right price! Hehe
ChiHawk a aimé ceci.
17 nov. 2021 à 20 h 41
#4
Rejoint: juin 2019
Messages: 21,486
Mentions "j'aime": 11,052
Quoting: exo2769
For the right price! Hehe


Your right price and the right price are a bit different though
exo2769 a aimé ceci.
17 nov. 2021 à 20 h 43
#5
Rejoint: août 2020
Messages: 991
Mentions "j'aime": 240
i know this isn't the point of the post but is that strome trade realistic? cause i think the leafs (and us as fans) would be all over strome, 50% retained, for a 2nd.

also i do agree with the actual concept of the post.
17 nov. 2021 à 20 h 43
#6
Rejoint: août 2020
Messages: 991
Mentions "j'aime": 240
Quoting: exo2769
For the right price! Hehe


monahan and a 1st, maybe?
17 nov. 2021 à 20 h 51
#7
Démarrer sujet
Rejoint: avr. 2018
Messages: 80
Mentions "j'aime": 21
Quoting: leafs_and_devils
monahan and a 1st, maybe?


yeah, if I'm Chicago, I'm focusing on firsts all the way.
leafs_and_devils a aimé ceci.
17 nov. 2021 à 20 h 56
#8
Démarrer sujet
Rejoint: avr. 2018
Messages: 80
Mentions "j'aime": 21
Quoting: leafs_and_devils
i know this isn't the point of the post but is that strome trade realistic? cause i think the leafs (and us as fans) would be all over strome, 50% retained, for a 2nd.

also i do agree with the actual concept of the post.


it's so hard to say . . . . I see trade proposals that lean better and worse than that for Strome and somebody comes and cr*ps all over them no matter what. This seemed approximately in between other offers to me. But King is playing him regularly and on the power play now, so it's not a stretch if he goes on some 30 pts in 35 games tear and nets them a late first.
leafs_and_devils a aimé ceci.
17 nov. 2021 à 21 h 6
#9
Rejoint: sept. 2020
Messages: 11,822
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I'd do Monahan Lucic 1st and a prospect for Towes 50% retained. I saw someone mention this the other day
17 nov. 2021 à 22 h 7
#10
exo2769
Rejoint: juill. 2015
Messages: 11,230
Mentions "j'aime": 4,796
Quoting: leafs_and_devils
monahan and a 1st, maybe?


Why would Toews accept a trade where SM goes to CHI? He wants to win!
17 nov. 2021 à 23 h 1
#11
Rejoint: nov. 2017
Messages: 2,473
Mentions "j'aime": 1,368
I agree and disagree at the same time.

I think it depends on how the rest of the season goes. I think there is potential to tank, sell off Murphy, Kubalik, and whoever else you can for some picks and prospects. Let Debrincat Dach and jones lead the way to the new age. Until Commesso comes into his own and we have a stellar young goalie again, we really arent going anywhere and we can tank for a few years to build up some nice core pieces. But, I will also play devils advocate here. There really is potential to transition this group into a winner. It will take some luck, for sure. Lets say we win the lottery this year and get Wright or Savoie. Theres instantly a piece that can step into the lineup in the next year or two and make an impact on a low cost contract. There are also some impact defensemen to add in this years FA (think Hampus Lindholm) to bolster our dcorps assuming De haan leaves. Lets say everything goes right and lankinen has a good year and fleury likes his time in chicago and doesnt want to leave. So then, you have a potential frame of
Debrincat-Dach-Kane
Kubalik-Toews-Reichel
Hagel-Strome-Wright
Kurashev-Entwistle-Hardman
Lindholm-Jones
McCabe-Murphy
C Jones-Kalynuk
Lank/Fleury

That really doesnt look that bad, does it? At full strenght, assuming the youngsters keep improving, this really does look like a decent roster. Now, you cant rely on pure luck, so thats where selling for multiple picks and prospects comes in, but a GM coming in has a tough decision to make. Do you want to be known for trading away Kane and Toews? Personally, I think we can do a reset without trading Toews/Kane, assuming they even would waive. Kubalik and Murphy can definitely fetch some decent returns, our goaltending has been bad enough this year to hold us down without a couple key members, and you worry about more decisions after you figure out whether you have a draft pick in 2022 or not. I think a LOT of weight is held on whether we get a top 2 pick or not
18 nov. 2021 à 11 h 35
#12
Démarrer sujet
Rejoint: avr. 2018
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Well, if all they have to do is win the draft lottery, then sure -- let's wait for that and see what happens. I don't think they'll have a new hockey OPS and GM in there making these decisions until that point anyway.

But that team is still not good enough to be more than a playoff bubble team. And if that's your starting point for 2023, with Kane and Toews now 34 or 35 . . . it's not going to be anything more than playoff bubble squad unless they get really lucky and multiple players--Dach, Reichel, one or two defensemen--hit their ceiling.

Bowman's gone; they've got hockey and non-hockey reasons now to end this era and stop half-a**ing it.
SlickWilly a aimé ceci.
18 nov. 2021 à 18 h 55
#13
Démarrer sujet
Rejoint: avr. 2018
Messages: 80
Mentions "j'aime": 21
Quoting: SlickWilly
I agree and disagree at the same time.

. So then, you have a potential frame of

Debrincat-Dach-Kane
Kubalik-Toews-Reichel
Hagel-Strome-Wright
Kurashev-Entwistle-Hardman
Lindholm-Jones
McCabe-Murphy
C Jones-Kalynuk
Lank/Fleury

Here's the thing: this would exceed the cap. If they buyout Johnson, that would leave about $7 M to sign Fleury, Lindholm, and Strome (whose arbitration rights give him $3.5M minimum).

And that's assuming lowball figures for Lankanen and Dach and Kubalik.

Because this kind of fix is not possible, I think they need to be more decisive in picking a lane.
18 nov. 2021 à 19 h 46
#14
Rejoint: nov. 2017
Messages: 2,473
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Quoting: sound_arguments
Well, if all they have to do is win the draft lottery, then sure -- let's wait for that and see what happens. I don't think they'll have a new hockey OPS and GM in there making these decisions until that point anyway.

But that team is still not good enough to be more than a playoff bubble team. And if that's your starting point for 2023, with Kane and Toews now 34 or 35 . . . it's not going to be anything more than playoff bubble squad unless they get really lucky and multiple players--Dach, Reichel, one or two defensemen--hit their ceiling.

Bowman's gone; they've got hockey and non-hockey reasons now to end this era and stop half-a**ing it.


Right. Generally I agree. I dont think this team as constructed is ever going to be more than a bubble team and that itself is a reason to rebuild off of some pieces we could get some genuinely valuable returns for. But I'm thinking from the perspective of an incoming GM. Would they want to be known as the GM that traded away franchise legends and attempt a rebuild, only to be fired by an owner when you dont win for 3 years? Because it seems like thats always what happens because owners are impatient. Tallon never got to see the light after drafting kane and toews. Gorton isnt going to reap the rewards for getting a core of Panarin, Laf, Kakko, Fox, and Shesterkin, for whatever reason. So a GM in this current climate might choose to go down the path of a faster retool rather than a rebuild, even if it isnt best in the long run
 
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