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Créé par: Reff
Équipe: 2021-22 Canadiens de Montréal
Date de création initiale: 15 nov. 2021
Publié: 17 nov. 2021
Mode - plafond salarial: Basique
Description
The ship is sinking for the Canadiens who suffered another setback yesterday. Playoff odds continue to melt like snow in the sun.

TVA Sports asked the team's fans on Twitter what they would really like to see next. More than 3000 fans have responded to the survey.

The winning answer: A real reconstruction (33.3%), followed closely by a big clean-up (30.8%). More than 64% of fans are calling for a fresh start. If we read between the lines, we can imagine that the fans want us to exchange the veterans of the team to build by the youth and the draft, while bringing a new GM to replace Marc Bergevin and possibly a new recruiter in chief to replace Trevor Timmins.

With the 2022 NHL draft being held in Montreal, Geoff Molson should go for a home run and try to get the 1st pick, or at least try to get as many 1st picks as possible. Bergevin, Timmins and friends will be gone for a new era.

So, let's try to discuss potential trades and the return we might get. Teams don't matter.
Transactions
1.
MTL
  1. Choix de 1e ronde en 2022 (ANA)
ANA
  1. Toffoli, Tyler
Détails additionnels:
Toffoli still got 3 years left at a decent salary. He's a legit 25 goal scorer and could easily get 30 with a good C.
2.
MTL
  1. Choix de 1e ronde en 2022 (ARI)
ARI
  1. Hoffman, Mike
Détails additionnels:
Like Tyler Toffoli, Hoffman is a proven goal scorer with a decent salary for another 3 years. If Toffoli can land a 1st pick, Hoffman can too.
3.
MTL
  1. Choix de 2e ronde en 2022 (ARI)
ARI
  1. Lehkonen, Artturi
Détails additionnels:
Lehkonen is a proven shutdown forward who could really help a team's PK for a SC run. I think his value could be a 2nd, but a 3rd and 4th could also do the trick.
4.
MTL
  1. Choix de 2e ronde en 2022 (BOS)
BOS
  1. Chiarot, Ben
Détails additionnels:
Chiarot had a stellar performance in last year SC run. On a 2nd or 3rd pair, where he should belong, he'd be a great addition for a contending team. Salary will surely be retained. A late 1st rounder or a 2nd round pick would be the target.
5.
MTL
  1. Choix de 7e ronde en 2022 (BOS)
BOS
  1. Wideman, Chris
Détails additionnels:
Depth Offensive D
6.
MTL
  1. Choix de 3e ronde en 2022 (CGY)
BOS
  1. Kulak, Brett
Détails additionnels:
Good 3rd pair D who can do almost anything. Not spectacular, but reliable. Salary will surely be retained.
7.
MTL
BOS
  1. Montembeault, Samuel
Détails additionnels:
Will be waived when Price returns and could be claimed.
8.
MTL
  1. Choix de 6e ronde en 2022 (BOS)
BOS
  1. Perreault, Mathieu
Détails additionnels:
Good depth forward with experience and leadership.
9.
MTL
  1. Choix de 7e ronde en 2022 (BUF)
BUF
  1. Paquette, Cédric
Détails additionnels:
Has not been really good... it would be a surprise if we could get anything back for Paquette, but a contending team with many injuries could get him for insurance.
10.
MTL
ANA
  1. Drouin, Jonathan
Détails additionnels:
Is Drouin on the market? Is someone willing to take a chance on him for the right price? What is the right price? He had a good start with 7 points in 11 games but was injured for the last couple games.
Rachats de contrats
Repêchage1e ronde2e ronde3e ronde4e ronde5e ronde6e ronde7e ronde
2022
Logo de CAR
Logo de ANA
Logo de ARI
Logo de MTL
Logo de ARI
Logo de BOS
Logo de MTL
Logo de ANA
Logo de CAR
Logo de CGY
Logo de MTL
Logo de TBL
Logo de MTL
Logo de MTL
Logo de BOS
Logo de MTL
Logo de STL
Logo de BOS
Logo de BUF
2023
Logo de MTL
Logo de MTL
Logo de MTL
Logo de MTL
Logo de MTL
Logo de MTL
Logo de MTL
2024
Logo de MTL
Logo de MTL
Logo de MTL
Logo de MTL
Logo de MTL
Logo de MTL
TAILLE DE LA FORMATIONPLAFOND SALARIALCAP HITEXCÉDENTS Info-bulleBONISESPACE SOUS LE PLAFOND SALARIAL
2181 500 000 $54 697 144 $597 561 $1 557 500 $26 802 856 $
Ailier gaucheCentreAilier droit
Logo de Canadiens de Montréal
3 400 000 $3 400 000 $
AD, AG
UFA - 4
Logo de Canadiens de Montréal
863 333 $863 333 $ (Bonis de performance537 500 $$538K)
C
UFA - 1
Logo de Canadiens de Montréal
880 833 $880 833 $ (Bonis de performance300 000 $$300K)
AG, AD
UFA - 2
Logo de Canadiens de Montréal
3 400 000 $3 400 000 $
AG, AD
UFA - 2
Logo de Canadiens de Montréal
4 450 000 $4 450 000 $
C
UFA - 4
Logo de Canadiens de Montréal
5 500 000 $5 500 000 $
AD, AG
M-NTC
UFA - 6
Logo de Canadiens de Montréal
750 000 $750 000 $
AG, AD
UFA - 1
Logo de Canadiens de Montréal
750 000 $750 000 $
C
UFA - 1
Logo de Canadiens de Montréal
6 500 000 $6 500 000 $
AD, AG
M-NTC, NMC
UFA - 6
Logo de Canadiens de Montréal
825 000 $825 000 $
AG, AD
RFA - 2
Logo de Canadiens de Montréal
750 000 $750 000 $
C, AG
UFA - 2
Logo de Canadiens de Montréal
750 000 $750 000 $
C, AD
UFA - 1
Défenseur gaucherDéfenseur droitierGardien de but
Logo de Canadiens de Montréal
875 000 $875 000 $
DG/DD
M-NTC
UFA - 3
Logo de Canadiens de Montréal
2 343 750 $2 343 750 $
DD
M-NTC, NMC
UFA - 4
Logo de Canadiens de Montréal
10 500 000 $10 500 000 $
G
NMC
UFA - 5
Logo de Canadiens de Montréal
894 167 $894 167 $ (Bonis de performance637 500 $$638K)
DG
RFA - 1
Logo de Canadiens de Montréal
3 500 000 $3 500 000 $
DD
UFA - 4
Logo de Canadiens de Montréal
2 875 000 $2 875 000 $
G
UFA - 2
Logo de Canadiens de Montréal
859 167 $859 167 $ (Bonis de performance82 500 $$82K)
DG
RFA - 3
Logo de Canadiens de Montréal
750 000 $750 000 $
DG/DD
UFA - 1
Laissés de côtéListe des blessés (IR)Liste des blessés à long terme (LTIR)
Logo de Canadiens de Montréal
725 000 $725 000 $
C
UFA - 1
Logo de Canadiens de Montréal
7 857 143 $7 857 143 $
DD
UFA - 5

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17 nov. 2021 à 10 h 45
#1
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I like the sell candidates you have here, though I'd like Wideman and Perreault on this team next year if 6th and 7th round picks is all we can get.

I'm just hoping they announce an official rebuild just like the Rangers did. I feel like the casual fan would like some clarity on what's going on.
17 nov. 2021 à 10 h 48
#2
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Quoting: SevenLeg
I like the sell candidates you have here, though I'd like Wideman and Perreault on this team next year if 6th and 7th round picks is all we can get.

I'm just hoping they announce an official rebuild just like the Rangers did. I feel like the casual fan would like some clarity on what's going on.


Would they not have to announce MB (and his staff) firing at the same time though?
17 nov. 2021 à 10 h 50
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Quoting: Barilko14
Would they not have to announce MB (and his staff) firing at the same time though?


Believe it or not, I wouldn't mind having MB around for the rebuild. But I also understand if they want to bring in some fresh faces.
17 nov. 2021 à 10 h 53
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Quoting: SevenLeg
Believe it or not, I wouldn't mind having MB around for the rebuild. But I also understand if they want to bring in some fresh faces.


Bergevin can't stay for the rebuild. With him as GM our drafting and developpement was horrible. He's the first with Timmins who need to go.
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17 nov. 2021 à 10 h 53
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Quoting: SevenLeg
Believe it or not, I wouldn't mind having MB around for the rebuild. But I also understand if they want to bring in some fresh faces.


I have a hard time believing it. Him and his staff have a pretty horrendous track record when it comes to developing prospects.

Is there a worst team in the league in the last 10 years in terms of graduating drafted players? Can't be too many.

He'd be pretty low on my list of GMs to oversee a full rebuild.
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17 nov. 2021 à 10 h 55
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Have a real hard time seeing toffoli and especially hoffman getting you 1sts. Youre probbaly looking more at 2nds and or 3rds. They just dont carry that type of value
17 nov. 2021 à 10 h 57
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Quoting: mastersp4
Bergevin can't stay for the rebuild. With him as GM our drafting and developpement was horrible. He's the first with Timmins who need to go.


Quoting: Barilko14
I have a hard time believing it. Him and his staff have a pretty horrendous track record when it comes to developing prospects.

Is there a worst team in the league in the last 10 years in terms of graduating drafted players? Can't be too many.

He'd be pretty low on my list of GMs to oversee a full rebuild.


Then blame Timmins and the development crew. Bergevin's only implication is his loyalty to Timmins, and even then he's been around since 2003 so it's probably the owners that are too loyal to Timmins.
17 nov. 2021 à 10 h 58
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Quoting: asauer1122
Have a real hard time seeing toffoli and especially hoffman getting you 1sts. Youre probbaly looking more at 2nds and or 3rds. They just dont carry that type of value


Toffoli with his term, cap hit and track record is not far-fetched. Far worse players have been traded for 1sts.
17 nov. 2021 à 10 h 58
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Quoting: asauer1122
Have a real hard time seeing toffoli and especially hoffman getting you 1sts. Youre probbaly looking more at 2nds and or 3rds. They just dont carry that type of value


Hoffman especially. It's pretty well known he can help a team's PP, but 5v5 is going to be a wash, no matter how much offence he can provide.
17 nov. 2021 à 10 h 59
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Quoting: SevenLeg
Then blame Timmins and the development crew. Bergevin's only implication is his loyalty to Timmins, and even then he's been around since 2003 so it's probably the owners that are too loyal to Timmins.


Bergevin:
Trades : excellent
UFA: Ok
Draft : horrible
Developpement : horrible
Contract : good but let's see how the gallagher contract will end out. Probably turn into bad.
Evaluating his team : Bad

I'd give him : 60%
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17 nov. 2021 à 11 h 2
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Quoting: SevenLeg
Then blame Timmins and the development crew. Bergevin's only implication is his loyalty to Timmins, and even then he's been around since 2003 so it's probably the owners that are too loyal to Timmins.


OK. But its Bergevin's crew. His scouts, his development staff. He is ultimately the one with final say on everything.

Is it not painfully obvious that MB lead teams love their veteran players, and have a hard time developing/keeping young talent?

I don't see how anyone would want him to guide a youth rebuild.
17 nov. 2021 à 11 h 3
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Quoting: mastersp4
Bergevin:
Trades : excellent
UFA: Ok
Draft : horrible
Developpement : horrible
Contract : good but let's see how the gallagher contract will end out. Probably turn into bad.
Evaluating his team : Bad

I'd give him : 60%


Draft & Development problem is bigger than Bergevin man... It's been a thing for Réjean Houle, André Savard, Pierre Gauthier, Bob Gainey. Can't believe none of them have thought about firing Timmins and the development staff, so the decision of keeping Timmins is probably the decision of someone higher than them.
17 nov. 2021 à 11 h 8
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Quoting: Barilko14
OK. But its Bergevin's crew. His scouts, his development staff. He is ultimately the one that final say on everything.

Is it not painfully obvious that MB lead teams love their veteran players, and have a hard time developing/keeping young talent?

I don't see how anyone would want him to guide a youth rebuild.


You have every right to disagree with me.

But you have to remember two things

1. He was brought in to contend right away with relatively weak pillars... good pillars but not franchise-caliber players except prime Carey Price. And he did, he stretched a weak roster with worn-out Weber & Price all the way to the Stanley Cup Finals.

2. The same drafting team has been around for like 4 GMs. None of them have fired them despite mediocre drafting. It's bigger than them, it's the organization's mentality of always worrying about the present at the expense of the future.
17 nov. 2021 à 11 h 10
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Quoting: SevenLeg
Draft & Development problem is bigger than Bergevin man... It's been a thing for Réjean Houle, André Savard, Pierre Gauthier, Bob Gainey. Can't believe none of them have thought about firing Timmins and the development staff, so the decision of keeping Timmins is probably the decision of someone higher than them.


Yes Draft & Development are his bigger problem. But for me one his bigger default is that he's mediocre to evaluate his team. Remember when MTL were good and finished always in the playoff. Except Vanek he never pushed for a bigger fish to help the team. Always putting the more pressure on Carey. Honestly I'm so tired of him saying : "once you're in the playoff everything can happen" This mindset suck.
17 nov. 2021 à 11 h 13
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Quoting: SevenLeg
Draft & Development problem is bigger than Bergevin man... It's been a thing for Réjean Houle, André Savard, Pierre Gauthier, Bob Gainey. Can't believe none of them have thought about firing Timmins and the development staff, so the decision of keeping Timmins is probably the decision of someone higher than them.


Montreal Hockey Ops

Top dog - Bergevin
Asnt GM - Mellanby (MB guy)
Asnt GM - Timmins (pre-dates MB)
Dir plyr prsnl - Lapointe (MB guy)
Dir plyr dev - Ramage (MB guy)
Plyr dev coach - Bouillon (MB guy)

I assume Timmins has most of the say over scouts, and most of their drafts get pretty high praise, but player development is all of MB guys. So I'm not sure who's at fault there.

IMO, it doesn't make sense to rebuild with a staff with such a poor track record of developing talent.

Just my two cents.
17 nov. 2021 à 11 h 15
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Quoting: mastersp4
Yes Draft & Development are his bigger problem. But for me one his bigger default is that he's mediocre to evaluate his team. Remember when MTL were good and finished always in the playoff. Except Vanek he never pushed for a bigger fish to help the team. Always putting the more pressure on Carey. Honestly I'm so tired of him saying : "once you're in the playoff everything can happen" This mindset suck.


I would have agreed with you before last season when Edmundson, Allen, Toffoli & Anderson were crucial parts of our Finals run. And the three main players of that run were the results of Bergevins' biggest moves of his tenure; Subban trade (Weber), Price extension, and Pacioretty trade (Suzuki). It was the peak of a cycle, it's just too bad this team didn't win it all, but a new one is beginning hopefully next season.
17 nov. 2021 à 11 h 17
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Quoting: SevenLeg
I would have agreed with you before last season when Edmundson, Allen, Toffoli & Anderson were crucial parts of our Finals run. And the three main players of that run were the results of Bergevins' biggest moves of his tenure; Subban trade (Weber), Price extension, and Pacioretty trade (Suzuki). It was the peak of a cycle, it's just too bad this team didn't win it all, but a new one is beginning hopefully next season.


Final run on a fluke year. The facts is we were never suppose to be in that playoff in a real season.
17 nov. 2021 à 11 h 18
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Quoting: Barilko14
Montreal Hockey Ops

Top dog - Bergevin
Asnt GM - Mellanby (MB guy)
Asnt GM - Timmins (pre-dates MB)
Dir plyr prsnl - Lapointe (MB guy)
Dir plyr dev - Ramage (MB guy)
Plyr dev coach - Bouillon (MB guy)

I assume Timmins has most of the say over scouts, and most of their drafts get pretty high praise, but player development is all of MB guys. So I'm not sure who's at fault there.

IMO, it doesn't make sense to rebuild with a staff with such a poor track record of developing talent.

Just my two cents.


You completely missed my point. If Timmins (head of scouting and all prospects-related stuff) has been employed by four different GMs and always has had poor results, it's a bigger problem than the GMs themselves; the owners and their win-now mentality.
17 nov. 2021 à 11 h 19
#19
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Quoting: SevenLeg
You have every right to disagree with me.

But you have to remember two things

1. He was brought in to contend right away with relatively weak pillars... good pillars but not franchise-caliber players except prime Carey Price. And he did, he stretched a weak roster with worn-out Weber & Price all the way to the Stanley Cup Finals.

2. The same drafting team has been around for like 4 GMs. None of them have fired them despite mediocre drafting. It's bigger than them, it's the organization's mentality of always worrying about the present at the expense of the future.


Sure, both valid points.

But just like coaches, some guys are better at taking veteran teams over that hurdle and finding more success, and some guys are better at getting the most out of younger teams.

No matter what is happening with the big team, there was still dozens if not 100 or more prospects go through the Habs system in MB's time, and the % of those that turned into solid players while wearing bleu, blanc and rouge is extremely low.
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17 nov. 2021 à 11 h 21
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Quoting: mastersp4
Final run on a fluke year. The facts is we were never suppose to be in that playoff in a real season.


Fluke or not 16 teams had the same odds at the beginning of the playoffs as us. The team brought in playoffs performers and it paid off.
17 nov. 2021 à 11 h 22
#21
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Quoting: Barilko14
Sure, both valid points.

But just like coaches, some guys are better at taking veteran teams over that hurdle and finding more success, and some guys are better at getting the most out of younger teams.

No matter what is happening with the big team, there was still dozens if not 100 or more prospects go through the Habs system in MB's time, and the % of those that turned into solid players while wearing bleu, blanc and rouge is extremely low.


That's for sure. Like I said I wouldn't mind new faces & fresh ideas, but I'm not among those calling for MB's head.
17 nov. 2021 à 11 h 23
#22
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Quoting: mastersp4
Yes Draft & Development are his bigger problem. But for me one his bigger default is that he's mediocre to evaluate his team. Remember when MTL were good and finished always in the playoff. Except Vanek he never pushed for a bigger fish to help the team. Always putting the more pressure on Carey. Honestly I'm so tired of him saying : "once you're in the playoff everything can happen" This mindset suck.


Habs are built for the playoffs, but not built to get there.
 
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