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Leafs Have Passed On A Lot Of Talent These 2 Seasons

Créé par: Agent_Of_R9
Équipe: 2021-22 Maple Leafs de Toronto
Date de création initiale: 9 nov. 2021
Publié: 9 nov. 2021
Mode - plafond salarial: Basique
Description
I'm a big fan of the way Dubas and his management constructed a prospect pool with rather low draft picks, he deserves a lot of credit for that. However, when I look at the team's failures the past 2 seasons, obviously a large part of the blame falls on Matthews and Marner for not producing, but I also can't help but feel the team passed on a lot of talent in order to go after players that didn't pan out. It's not even a matter that the Leafs couldn't afford depth, most of the players they passed were available for a similar cap hit compared to the guys they actually signed.
Signatures de joueurs autonomes
CRÉÉANSCAP HIT
Vesey, Jimmy
1900 000 $
Johnsson, Andreas
33 400 000 $
Foligno, Nick
33 800 000 $
Transactions
1.
TOR
  1. Verhaeghe, Carter
Détails additionnels:
*Signed instead - while no one could've seen Verhaeghe's production rise, he was an excellent forechecker and defensive player
FLA
  1. Vesey, Jimmy
2.
TOR
  1. Sheary, Conor
Détails additionnels:
*Both players signed for the same cap hit in 2020 - Sheary like Verhaeghe was an excellent forechecker with 2 way abilities, he could've been an underrated pickup
3.
TOR
  1. Weegar, MacKenzie
Détails additionnels:
*This trade was rumored during the 2020 offseason - IDK why the Leafs didn't accept because the Leafs are still without a 2RD
FLA
  1. Johnsson, Andreas
  2. Dermott, Travis
  3. Choix de 1e ronde en 2022 (TOR)
4.
TOR
  1. Hall, Taylor (2 000 000 $ retained)
Détails additionnels:
*I never understood this trade from the start. What exactly is Foligno than Hall at? Offence? No. Defence? Not substantially. Forechecking? No? Transition? No? The only he does better is bodycheck, but hitting means little if you can't recover possession.
BOS
  1. Foligno, Nick
5.
TOR
  1. Niku, Sami
Détails additionnels:
*Why sign a career AHLer when someone with potential is actually available?
6.
TOR
  1. McCann, Jared
Détails additionnels:
*What was even the point of trading for McCann? Also, I never understood the love fest this coaching staff for Justin Holl. He is an overrated second pair defenceman, these types of players are easily replaceable.
7.
TOR
  1. Cizikas, Casey
Détails additionnels:
*No one could've predicted for Nick Ritchie's effort to be as bad as it is, but giving 2.5 million dollars to a player who does not have a large sample size of success for a cap-strapped team is risky
Transactions impliquant une retenue de salaire
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2022
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2023
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2024
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TAILLE DE LA FORMATIONPLAFOND SALARIALCAP HITEXCÉDENTS Info-bulleBONISESPACE SOUS LE PLAFOND SALARIAL
2281 500 000 $81 239 783 $0 $0 $260 217 $

Formation

Ailier gaucheCentreAilier droit
Logo de Maple Leafs de Toronto
950 000 $950 000 $
AG
UFA - 2
Logo de Maple Leafs de Toronto
11 640 250 $11 640 250 $
C
UFA - 3
Logo de Maple Leafs de Toronto
6 962 366 $6 962 366 $
AD
UFA - 3
Logo de Maple Leafs de Toronto
3 500 000 $3 500 000 $
AG, C, AD
UFA - 2
Logo de Maple Leafs de Toronto
11 000 000 $11 000 000 $
C, AG
NMC
UFA - 4
Logo de Maple Leafs de Toronto
10 903 000 $10 903 000 $
AD
UFA - 4
Logo de Panthers de la Floride
1 000 000 $1 000 000 $
AG
UFA - 1
Logo de Islanders de New York
2 500 000 $2 500 000 $
C
UFA - 6
Logo de Maple Leafs de Toronto
1 500 000 $1 500 000 $
C
UFA - 2
Logo de Capitals de Washington
1 500 000 $1 500 000 $
AG, AD
UFA - 2
Logo de Kraken de Seattle
2 940 000 $2 940 000 $
C, AG
UFA - 1
Logo de Maple Leafs de Toronto
1 250 000 $1 250 000 $
AD
UFA - 1
Défenseur gaucherDéfenseur droitierGardien de but
Logo de Maple Leafs de Toronto
5 000 000 $5 000 000 $
DG
NMC
UFA - 1
Logo de Maple Leafs de Toronto
5 000 000 $5 000 000 $
DG/DD
NTC
UFA - 3
Logo de Maple Leafs de Toronto
1 650 000 $1 650 000 $
G
UFA - 1
Logo de Maple Leafs de Toronto
5 625 000 $5 625 000 $
DG
NTC
UFA - 3
Logo de Panthers de la Floride
3 250 000 $3 250 000 $
DG/DD
UFA - 2
Logo de Maple Leafs de Toronto
725 000 $725 000 $
G
UFA - 1
Logo de Maple Leafs de Toronto
894 167 $894 167 $
DG
UFA - 1
Logo de Canadiens de Montréal
750 000 $750 000 $
DG/DD
UFA - 1
Laissés de côtéListe des blessés (IR)Liste des blessés à long terme (LTIR)
Logo de Maple Leafs de Toronto
750 000 $750 000 $
C, AD
UFA - 1
Logo de Bruins de Boston
4 000 000 $4 000 000 $
AG
NMC
UFA - 4
Logo de Maple Leafs de Toronto
750 000 $750 000 $
D
UFA - 1
Logo de Maple Leafs de Toronto
1 645 000 $1 645 000 $
AG, AD
UFA - 1
Logo de Maple Leafs de Toronto
1 250 000 $1 250 000 $
AD, AG
UFA - 1
Logo de Maple Leafs de Toronto
3 800 000 $3 800 000 $
G
M-NTC
UFA - 3

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10 nov. 2021 à 6 h 32
#26
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Quoting: Nhl_oilers
This is a hard topic to talk about, because who knows who you guys would’ve signed after those trades, and how good you would’ve been. That Weeger trade was rumoured, but I don’t think they would’ve accepted it. Weeger is a good player, and he will be on Florida for a while. They would be fools to trade him. Niku does have potential, but I don’t know if the leafs passed on him when he got picked up on waivers. Also, he’s a headache. I would not want him on my team, just because he is annoying. He won’t be anything more than a 6th, or 7th defence man in the future. The point of trading for McCann is to keep Kerfoot and keep your defence intact. They like Holl, and McCann is just a guy to get picked so they can keep their players. Obviously they didn’t think McCann was going to be this good, or they would’ve protected him instead of Holl. Like joshelkin said, Cizikas would never come to Toronto. He wanted to stay. This post is hard to talk on, because who knows how good the team would be, and if they would’ve done those signings as well.


Yeah I understand why they exposed McCann, but I still don’t agree with it because Holl sucks and has become an expensive 7D. McCann was already very good the previous season with PIT.
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10 nov. 2021 à 6 h 36
#27
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Quoting: aadoyle
Niku sucks and Biega is a good #7.

Hall would be a pure rental and was a locker room cancer and no guarantee he would do what he did for Boston. If Foligno could have stayed healthy he would have been a solid addition to our team.

The Weegar trade rumor was proven false by Panthers reporters

Sheary before going to Washington was worse than Simmonds

McCann would be a rental as if Dubas wanted to keep him beyond this year you then lose Kerfoot so in the end we lose 2 players to keep 1.

and Verhegae didnt want to join a Canadian team. Plus that extension is not affordable.

so yeah it wasnt that we passed on them there are other factors you need to consider. No guarantee player A will do good on team X vs Y.


No guarantee chemistry will work, I agree. But to win in today’s NHL, it should always be to try and get as many forechecking forwards with good shot creating abilities. As well as acquire for defencemen who are actually capable unlike Holl.
10 nov. 2021 à 6 h 40
#28
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Quoting: ON3M4N
Hall wanted to play for Boston and basically forced Buffalo to trade him there. I don't think Toronto was ever an option.


Quoting: palhal
Again the author fails to grasp the concept of "UFA". Players can sign with any team, and just because the Leafs offer the same money or even more, the payer doesn't have to sign with the Leafs.
Taylor Hall, apparently his M NTC gave him a choice....though I do agree, Leafs wasted picks on Foligno.


Thanks for the feedback. IDK if there was ever evidence that Hall used his NTC specifically for BOS. All the rumours that I see are that he wanted to sign in TOR since becoming a UFA, but the Leafs simply didn’t want him.
10 nov. 2021 à 6 h 43
#29
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Quoting: Penguins_Legend_Sheary
What'd you guys think of this issue?


You are a robot
10 nov. 2021 à 6 h 44
#30
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Quoting: Hammerwise
Agree with some, these players would not have gone to Toronto just because they were available and may not have developed as they have in toronto.

Dubas is more uneven with more losses as a GM than some acknowledge, but ultimately you have to look at how the team is constructed to see why the results aren;t there.

If you have 4 forwards eating half the cap, that leaves very little for the other 9-10 forwards. The coach plays the team similar to the salary structure: the 40mil 4 forwards get 19+ minutes a night, 2 guys might get 15 minutes, and generally the rest are around 13 minutes. Thats not 4 lines thats a line and a half and then 2 and a half 4th lines. Who's the last rookie forward in toronto, the last ELC to play in toronto? The droppoff in talent (and not just scoring talent but even in role players) matches the salaries.

They acquire overage guys like bunting, engvall, mikheyev, semyonov, or flawed/risky types like Kase/ricthie/simmonds and give them 13 minutes a night and then wonder where the secondary scoring or team defense is?

Any forward over 1.25 mil but making less than nylander's almost 7mil is generally trade bait or gone, (trade bait: kerfoot, ritchie, mikheyev, gone: brown, kapanen, johnsson), what other team has this out of skew salary structure and subsequent icetime/talent discrepency?

Why would somebody like Verhaeghe want to join the Leafs and probably get that type of 3rd line time?

This isn;t all Dubas's making, but the flaws are evident to see and the results are pretty static now. The McCann move was pure loss, the Brodie deal was good, the Campbell deal was good, the overage acquisitions of Lehtonen or Semyonov mixed AT BEST, Bunting good, Kase bad (id rather have a youngster there than an injury concern), Mrazek bad. Its like buying a 38$ dollar steak and then spending 2$ on the entire rest of the meal.

Liljegren and Sandin developing and arriving, have saved the defense, but I'm still not sold its a good defense.

And the cap will be tighter next year, I'm just not sure this team is the draw to players, some think it is. I'm not sure the Leafs management is as good or smart as some wish. I'm not sure the team can get better results with the salary and icetime structure they currently have.


Thanks for the feedback. I don’t necessarily have issue with the usage of our forwards, we have a good defensive line (Engvall-Kampf-Kase) so I think they can get more minutes and tougher matchups to give some relief to the top guys. Our defence and 3C situation looks bad cuz the Leafs committed to incapable players like Holl, Dermott & Ritchie instead of letting them go for a legitimate upgrade. Getting rid of those guys would be 6 million.
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10 nov. 2021 à 6 h 44
#31
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Quoting: PleaseBanMeForMyOwnGood
You are a robot


I knew you were going to say this. You can’t accept any criticism for this current Leafs team.
10 nov. 2021 à 6 h 45
#32
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Quoting: Shibbal18
Dubas is an analytics nerd who chases trends instead of being ahead of the curve. Reminds me of Darcy Reiger, always a year too late or a move too short


Because Ritchie, Simmonds and moves like that are totally analytical in nature. Just the usual anti leaf rhetoric on here. Make up reasons to justify your hatred of all they do as a franchise.
10 nov. 2021 à 6 h 47
#33
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Quoting: yikes
A few of these are realistic gripes. Most of them are just things out of Dubas/ the Leafs control; quite literally not everything is about the leafs. Like they never ever ever ever ever ever ever were coming close to Cizikas. They never woulda got Carter V.

McCann was a miss tho. I understand why they didn’t want to move Holl but tbh McCann was a huge impact piece they coulda used. Don’t sign some of the guys the gambles and have a a guy who would probably be much better player to keep.


He is not an impact piece. He's a depth guy who's had a abnormal start to his season. Been not good at 5v5 but has a lot of PP points. He wouldn't get those opportunities on a team other than Seattle. He doesn't matter. And TO lost Hallinder and a late draft pick in the expansion draft.
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10 nov. 2021 à 6 h 49
#34
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Quoting: Penguins_Legend_Sheary
Thanks for the feedback. I don’t necessarily have issue with the usage of our forwards, we have a good defensive line (Engvall-Kampf-Kase) so I think they can get more minutes and tougher matchups to give some relief to the top guys. Our defence and 3C situation looks bad cuz the Leafs committed to incapable players like Holl, Dermott & Ritchie instead of letting them go for a legitimate upgrade. Getting rid of those guys would be 6 million.


Long rant, I know.

Ultimately its not all bad. Just trying to say the construct is bad and its recognizable by now.

Theres part of me that has seen enough of the engvalls and wants to see the Amirovs, Abramovs and Krals. They cant be far worse in the limited icetime theyll get
10 nov. 2021 à 6 h 53
#35
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Quoting: Penguins_Legend_Sheary
If that is true, then I would still argue that the Leafs passed on many other good defencemen available to keep Holl like Toews.


Toews is a LD. He wasn't needed.
10 nov. 2021 à 6 h 57
#36
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Quoting: Penguins_Legend_Sheary
No guarantee chemistry will work, I agree. But to win in today’s NHL, it should always be to try and get as many forechecking forwards with good shot creating abilities. As well as acquire for defencemen who are actually capable unlike Holl.


TO is currently the number 1 team in the NHL for Corsi. That means they control the shot share. They also are very near #1 in expected goal differential meaning they should score more than they get scored on. Over the course of a full year the teams who have led in that star are near the top of the league. Vegas was tops in that category 2 seasons ago, Colorado #1 last season. So your statement about them needing players who control shots is about as absent reality as your human body is. You're and internet troll bot.
10 nov. 2021 à 6 h 58
#37
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Quoting: Penguins_Legend_Sheary
I knew you were going to say this. You can’t accept any criticism for this current Leafs team.


No, I just am finished with your dumb posts about fantasy moves all aimed at firing up troll nation for your computations to maximize their machine learning on how to be the best troll. You are not a real person.
10 nov. 2021 à 7 h 2
#38
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Quoting: PleaseBanMeForMyOwnGood
Toews is a LD. He wasn't needed.


And he makes over $4m.

Not an option to replace the $2m Holl.
10 nov. 2021 à 7 h 39
#39
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Quoting: Penguins_Legend_Sheary
Thanks for the feedback. IDK if there was ever evidence that Hall used his NTC specifically for BOS. All the rumours that I see are that he wanted to sign in TOR since becoming a UFA, but the Leafs simply didn’t want him.


“The no-movement clause really helped me become a Bruin,” Hall said in a media teleconference the next day. “Since I knew I would be traded for the last few weeks, it was a team I really wanted to join and I wanted to be a part of.”

"I was ready to come to Boston and it didn’t work out,” Hall told reporters Monday in a video conference, adding that he was "really close" to signing with the Bruins.

" ... It was not like any hard feelings or anything like that. Once I knew there was a possibility I’d be traded (from Buffalo), Boston was No. 1 on the list."

He's said before that he wanted to be drafted by Boston. He wore #4 for Bruins legend Bobby Orr and was even represented by Orr when he first came into the NHL. As it says above he nearly signed with Boston and not Buffalo to begin with.

What do you have for quotes on him wanting to sign in Toronto but Toronto didn't want him?
10 nov. 2021 à 8 h 6
#40
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Quoting: ON3M4N
“The no-movement clause really helped me become a Bruin,” Hall said in a media teleconference the next day. “Since I knew I would be traded for the last few weeks, it was a team I really wanted to join and I wanted to be a part of.”

"I was ready to come to Boston and it didn’t work out,” Hall told reporters Monday in a video conference, adding that he was "really close" to signing with the Bruins.

" ... It was not like any hard feelings or anything like that. Once I knew there was a possibility I’d be traded (from Buffalo), Boston was No. 1 on the list."

He's said before that he wanted to be drafted by Boston. He wore #4 for Bruins legend Bobby Orr and was even represented by Orr when he first came into the NHL. As it says above he nearly signed with Boston and not Buffalo to begin with.

What do you have for quotes on him wanting to sign in Toronto but Toronto didn't want him?


Thx for the insight. I don’t have any quotes, but much of the media suggested that the reason Hall signed in Buffalo was because he wanted to be close to his home in Toronto and hopefully push for a trade there. There were articles saying the Leafs only wanted Foligno and not Hall.
10 nov. 2021 à 8 h 24
#41
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Quoting: Penguins_Legend_Sheary
Thx for the insight. I don’t have any quotes, but much of the media suggested that the reason Hall signed in Buffalo was because he wanted to be close to his home in Toronto and hopefully push for a trade there. There were articles saying the Leafs only wanted Foligno and not Hall.


Ya I don't put much stock in what Toronto media has to say. They play to their fanbase and throw stuff out there that gets them clicks, views and likes so they can charge more for companies to advertise with them. They act like if anyone even knows where Toronto is then they must want to be a Maple Leaf.
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10 nov. 2021 à 8 h 30
#42
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Quoting: ON3M4N
Ya I don't put much stock in what Toronto media has to say. They play to their fanbase and throw stuff out there that gets them clicks, views and likes so they can charge more for companies to advertise with them. They act like if anyone even knows where Toronto is then they must want to be a Maple Leaf.


Thanks for the insight. Yeah I have to admit in Toronto we have too many journalists but not enough credible ones.
10 nov. 2021 à 8 h 50
#43
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Quoting: NoWah49
i don't get the Verhaeghe stuff bc that's all "what if" type thinking. but I really think the Leafs whiffed on not trading for Weegar. Muzzin - Weegar, Rielly - Brodie is one of the best top 4s in the league


I don't think that Weegar trade was actually available to the Leafs, it seems like the type of 1-sided rumour that goes around Leafland every summer. More wishful thinking than anything.
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10 nov. 2021 à 8 h 52
#44
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Quoting: Penguins_Legend_Sheary
Thanks for the insight. Yeah I have to admit in Toronto we have too many journalists but not enough credible ones.


We have a similar problem in Boston. The people that get the attention and coverage are hacks that write anything for clicks and likes. Sad too because there are some great lesser known people who cover the team and provide great insight.
10 nov. 2021 à 11 h 56
#45
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Quoting: CD282
I don't think that Weegar trade was actually available to the Leafs, it seems like the type of 1-sided rumour that goes around Leafland every summer. More wishful thinking than anything.


Thanks for the feedback. If Weegar wasn't available, we should have tried to get Cernak via offer sheet, or trade for Teows/Demelo.
10 nov. 2021 à 11 h 57
#46
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Quoting: PleaseBanMeForMyOwnGood
TO is currently the number 1 team in the NHL for Corsi. That means they control the shot share. They also are very near #1 in expected goal differential meaning they should score more than they get scored on. Over the course of a full year the teams who have led in that star are near the top of the league. Vegas was tops in that category 2 seasons ago, Colorado #1 last season. So your statement about them needing players who control shots is about as absent reality as your human body is. You're and internet troll bot.


I agree their on-ice results are good. But it still doesn't change the fact that they could be even better if they didn't pass on so much talent to keep dead weight like Ritchie and Holl.
10 nov. 2021 à 12 h 34
#47
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Quoting: Penguins_Legend_Sheary
I agree their on-ice results are good. But it still doesn't change the fact that they could be even better if they didn't pass on so much talent to keep dead weight like Ritchie and Holl.


Every team in hockey has passed on talent. 30 teams passed on Aho. This happens all the time by everyone. This is just the usual, get the mob firing venom at the Leafs for doing exactly what every other team does every year. No one is perfect. 28 teams passed on Sandin, he looks pretty solid. You're robot mind likely can't compute that though, it conflicts with your programming.
10 nov. 2021 à 13 h 0
#48
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Weegar, McCann and Hall were missed opportunities for sure, I really wanted them to trade for Weegar last year and Foligno > Hall never made sense to me. I was disappointed with the McCann decision and the fact that Holl has been getting outplayed by Liljegren this year (as I thought he could from the start) only reinforces that. Ritchie signing was just strange from the beginning, never really saw the fit. Can't keep up in the top-6, can't create enough to work in the bottom-6.

Verhaeghe is just a rare late bloomer, nothing you can do when a guy shows little potential until he's in his mid-to-late 20's and then suddenly breaks out. Things like Simmonds/Sheary and Biega/Niku aren't that big deals to me, Simmonds has been fine and plays a more physical/veteran role for the team than Sheary could, and Niku probably wanted some assurances of NHL time which the Leafs just couldn't provide him.

Hits and misses for sure, but on the whole I still agree with you that Dubas has done a good job.
10 nov. 2021 à 14 h 52
#49
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The problem was Hall wanted to be paid with money rather than fan criticism. Leafs couldnt afford to keep hyman and definitely couldnt afford Hall.
10 nov. 2021 à 17 h 30
#50
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Quoting: PleaseBanMeForMyOwnGood
Every team in hockey has passed on talent. 30 teams passed on Aho. This happens all the time by everyone. This is just the usual, get the mob firing venom at the Leafs for doing exactly what every other team does every year. No one is perfect. 28 teams passed on Sandin, he looks pretty solid. You're robot mind likely can't compute that though, it conflicts with your programming.


I'm not talking about talent being passed through the draft. Obviously every team does that and it's inevitable. What I'm mores specifically focusing on is the players that got passed through free agency. Players with proven sample sizes weren't offered contracts because Keefe preferred Holl, Dermott, Ritchie and Vesey.
 
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