I can’t see edmonton trading Savoie. It’s probably picks or nothing. No way edmonton is under the cap and competing in a couple years if they don’t keep their young forwards.

Fair. I toyed between Savoie + 4th versus a 2nd. Either way is good for the Hawks.

Shaw has positive value in this current LTIR cap gymnastics league. Koskinen, Lavoie and a 4th for a half-retained Fleury seems pretty weak for CHI.

How about Robin Lehner for Malcom Subban…oh wait new Gm

Bigger issue for Edmonton here is they are giving up the goalie preforming better MUCH better. I haven’t watched hawks games yet because well they aren’t must watch tv. But seeing highlights and the goals fleury is letting in have been very weak. I’m not prepared enough to think it’s just a bad hawks team he’s been part of that issue.

Chicago fans are just grasping at straws to try to convince everyone that Fleury's terrible play is the fault of the team in front of him, when the evidence shows otherwise. Chicago is below average (24th) for SCA/60, but in every other key defensive metric (SA/60, xGA/60, HDCA/60, etc) they are average or better.

Fleury just fell off a cliff early and Hawks fans are desperate to try to maintain some modicum of value so they can unload him ASAP.

http://naturalstattrick.com/teamtable.php?fromseason=20212022&thruseason=20212022&stype=2&sit=all&score=all&rate=y&team=all&loc=B&gpf=410&fd=&td=

Koskinen has had a couple poor performances this season, one cost the Oilers their only loss so far. While disappointed about those two games, most fans are not surprised and are generally pleased that Koskinen has managed a .920 GAA and run his record to 7-1 while Smith has been on the IR. At this point, I think Koskinen has held up his end of the bargain, and now we will have to see if Smith can do the same. Upgrades may come closer to the TDL, but only if it makes sense. At this point, MAF doesn't appear to be a sensible acquisition for the Oilers. As the season progresses that could change, but it seems unlikely it will.

My question is, why are you disappointed in Koskinen because he was poor in 2 games? One thing that really annoys me is that fans have different standards for guys with good reputations vs guys who have bad reputations. Here, I'll show you.

So far this season certain goalies have stood out in a big way: Markstrom, Andersen, Bobrovsky, Merzlikins, Campbell, etc. Let's take a look at how many poor starts these guys have had (.905 save percentage or below) along with guys who have great reputations for being top goalies (Vasilevskiy, Hellebuyck, etc).

Andersen: 3 poor games out of 9 = 33.3%
Bobrovsky: 0 of 7 = 0%
Campbell: 2 of 11 = 18.2%
Demko: 5 of 10 = 50%
Gibson: 5 of 9 = 55.6%
Hellebuyck: 4 of 7 = 57.1%
Koskinen: 2 of 8 = 25%
Markstrom: 4 of 9 = 44.4%
Merzlikins: 1 of 6 = 16.7%
Saros: 2 of 10 = 20%
Vasilevskiy: 3 of 9 = 33.3%

No goalie is perfect all the time. You don't need to make excuses / apologies / express disappointment over Koskinen's play so far this year. He's right up there with the best.

I have not said I am disappointed in Koskinen. I think his two poor performances are a matter of fact and I see no reason why anyone should take offense at their mention. The Oilers have won 100% of those games in which he has played well, and 50% of those games in which he has struggled. I'm okay with that, but being fine with this overall performance doesn't mean I cannot express some disappointment with the two poor performances. Being able to acknowledge these things is critical to improving.

I showed you that no matter who the goalie is you aren't going to get 100% quality starts. Only a few will hit 70% over an entire season in fact. Why are Flames fans crowing over how well Markstrom is doing and Oilers fans are drawing attention to Koskinen's 2 poor games? Koskinen has been FAR more consistent this season than Markstrom's jeckyl & hyde start.

It's a mindset issue, and acknowledging it is critical to improving.

Yeah, Fleury won the Vezina a few months ago and is sudddenly the worst goalie in the league. You may be onto something there.

You can't deny that there's an issue, and you can't blame it on the defense in front of him.

You absolutely can blame it on Colliton’s defensive system paired with a team-wide slump. Fleury’s value hasn’t just tanked all of a sudden.

It's highly likely that Fleury bounces back but at the same time it doesn't make sense for the Oilers to trade a goalie who is already playing well for a goalie who might bounce back. Koskinen's only really BAD game was the Philly game. He let in 5 against the Rangers but they weren't weak goals, just typically your goalie needs to find a way to stop a couple of those to win but his team covered for him that night. Those are the only 2 games out of his 7 starts where he let more than 3 goals in, not sure what more people want from him.

I'm not sure our discussion remains relevant to DarthKane's post, so this will be my last response in this thread.

You seem to be focused on a five word section contained in a multi-sentence statement. I am going to break the entire paragraph down and highlight for you the its key points:

Koskinen has had a couple poor performances this season... ...most fans are not surprised and are generally pleased that Koskinen has managed a .920 GAA and run his record to 7-1... ...I think Koskinen has held up his end of the bargain... ...Upgrades may come closer to the TDL, but only if it makes sense.

Fact, observation, fact, opinion, opinion.

I have a hard time believing Flower just all of a sudden became bad. The pundits are saying that Chicago is one of the loosest teams defensively which i believe. An amateur coach probably doesn't help either. I think the stats on the shots goalies face are subjective so it is impossible to quantify high danger shots. The edmonton oilers went through the same struggles where they didn't know how to defend or take away the high danger chances and always took on the wrong man on the odd man break. I believe chicago is going through the same struggles with flower as Edmonton did with Cam Talbot. Was talbot actually a bad goalie? In some games yes, but long term results have proved it was probably the team as well. Chicago needs to find their Dave Tippett.

There are ways to quantify High Danger changes, and (hate to break it to you) the Oilers allow more of them than the Hawks do BY FAR, resulting in a higher 2.84 vs 2.64 xGA/60 for Edmonton. The only reason Edmonton has allowed fewer goals is - wait for it - they have better goaltending.

I honestly have zero issue with resigning Koskinen at a backup goalie wage. Edmonton doesn't play a system that outright denies shots. They try to get teams to take low percentage shots and deny the high ones. Keep them away from Mikko's glove hand and he is a pretty good goalie. They are tracking their own stats on where opposing teams are scoring from. I don't believe chicago is doing the same things I think they are trying to play some pressure the puck carrier stuff or something. Duncan Keith said it himself that Playfair and tippett are getting him to do certain things that he has never been told to do before that almost seem strange to him. Under different defensive systems I think Fluery would perform differently.

It's possible that he would, but why pay a top prospect + the goalie that's carrying the team + take back a cap dump just to find out IF Fleury can bounce back? This trade makes no sense at all.

FYI Fleury has been. 913 or less in 3 of the past 5 years, so the odds that he'll bounce back to last year's .928 (which he has never matched ever in his entire career) are basically zero.

Unless you're getting him really, really cheap (read: free) then you don't make this kind of move.