Forums/Armchair-GM

Fire Bowness Fire Nill Start Rebuild

Créé par: TheMooterus
Date de création initiale: 3 nov. 2021
Publié: 3 nov. 2021
Équipe: 2021-22 Stars de Dallas
Explications
Flames, Sharks, Penguins, Avalanche, & Oilers fans -- I'm curious to hear your thoughts on the trades. Y'all probably know better than I where your team is currently at & whether or not they will be in a place to make trades like this over the course of this season.

Let me know how close I am to the value of these players here. I used a bit of my own knowledge as well as some various prospect rankings to gauge value for some of the prospects in these deals, but I'm curious to hear where y'all line up on them.

Kept Klingberg because I still do believe that he could still be a valuable blue line player when the Stars are actually competitive again
Transactions
1.
DAL
  1. Strömgren, William [Liste de réserve]
  2. 2022 2e round pick (CGY)
Détails additionnels:
**2022 2nd Round Pick Condition**

If Calgary makes the Western Conference Finals AND Radulov plays in 75% of the Flames postseason games, the 2nd Round Pick becomes Calgary's 2022 1st Round Pick
CGY
  1. Radulov, Alexander (3 125 000 $ retained)
Détails additionnels:
I'll be the first to admit that Radulov is not worth a mid-early 20's pick right now, but along with the retention, if he can help the Flames make it to the NHL's final 4, he should be able to fetch pick 29-32 & a good (not top) prospect
2.
DAL
  1. Bordeleau, Thomas [Liste de réserve]
  2. 2023 2e round pick (SJS)
  3. 2022 3e round pick (SJS)
Détails additionnels:
Not too sure how the Sharks rate Bordeleau in their group of prospects, but I figured a good prospect like him would be fair to have in the deal given the retention on Pavelski & the lack of a 1st Round Pick in the trade
SJS
  1. Pavelski, Joe (3 500 000 $ retained)
Détails additionnels:
This obviously depends on whether or not San Jose can keep up this hot start. If they are still a strong contender come the deadline, I would love to send Joe back to his long-time franchise in the hopes that they can give him one last run at a Cup.
3.
DAL
  1. Yoder, Chase [Liste de réserve]
  2. 2023 3e round pick (PIT)
  3. 2022 4e round pick (PIT)
PIT
  1. Faksa, Radek
4.
DAL
  1. Beaucage, Alex
  2. 2022 5e round pick (COL)
Détails additionnels:
Not a blue chip prospect, but there's enough there that he could be a serviceable middle/bottom-6 scoring winger at the NHL level at some point.
COL
  1. Holtby, Braden
Détails additionnels:
Assuming Holtby can continue the pace he's started this season at, he would be a solid 1A to struggling Kuemper's 1B in Colorado. It shores up a little bit of the goalie situation for the Avalanche after losing Grubauer to the Kraken
5.
DAL
  1. Tullio, Tyler
  2. Turris, Kyle
  3. 2023 3e round pick (EDM)
Détails additionnels:
Stars take a cap dump in Turris, but add a B-level prospect in Tullio
EDM
  1. Khudobin, Anton (833 333 $ retained)
Détails additionnels:
Khudobin comes in to either split time with Koskinen/Smith or be the backup to either one of them. He's a fine backup, but he's not a long-term NHL starting caliber goalie. Never has been.

With Bishop ramping up towards coming off of LTIR, & in order to bring Oettinger back up the NHL (where he belongs), I don't see Dallas taking a goalie back in the deal. But if Bishop is still on LTIR then Koskinen could be added to the deal instead of Turris.
Transactions impliquant une retenue de salaire
  • Alexander Radulov: 3 125 000 $ (50%)
  • Joe Pavelski: 3 500 000 $ (50%)
  • Anton Khudobin: 833 333 $ (25%)
ANNÉE DE REPÊCHAGERONDE 1RONDE 2RONDE 3RONDE 4RONDE 5RONDE 6RONDE 7
2022
Logo de DAL
Logo de DAL
Logo de CGY
Logo de DAL
Logo de SJS
Logo de DAL
Logo de PIT
Logo de DAL
Logo de COL
Logo de DAL
Logo de DAL
2023
Logo de DAL
Logo de DAL
Logo de SJS
Logo de DAL
Logo de PIT
Logo de EDM
Logo de DAL
Logo de DAL
Logo de DAL
Logo de DAL
2024
Logo de DAL
Logo de DAL
Logo de DAL
Logo de DAL
Logo de DAL
Logo de DAL
Logo de DAL
TAILLE DE LA FORMATIONPLAFOND SALARIALCAP HITEXCÉDENTS Info-bulleBONISESPACE SOUS LE PLAFOND SALARIAL
2381 500 000 $75 644 572 $927 073 $1 585 000 $5 855 428 $

Formation

Ailier gaucheCentreAilier droit
Logo de DAL
Robertson, Jason
795 000 $
AG, AD
RFA - 1
Logo de DAL
Hintz, Roope
3 150 000 $
C, AG
RFA - 2
Logo de DAL
Gurianov, Denis
2 550 000 $
AD, AG
RFA - 1
Logo de DAL
Peterson, Jacob
842 500 $
AG, C
RFA - 2
Logo de DAL
Seguin, Tyler
9 850 000 $
C, AD
NMC
UFA - 6
Logo de DAL
Kiviranta, Joel
1 050 000 $
AG, AD
UFA - 2
Logo de DAL
Benn, Jamie
9 500 000 $
AG, C
NMC
UFA - 4
Logo de DAL
Damiani, Riley
803 333 $
C
RFA - 2
Logo de DAL
Dellandrea, Ty
863 333 $
C, AD
RFA - 2
Logo de DAL
Raffl, Michael
1 100 000 $
AG, AD
UFA - 1
Logo de DAL
Glendening, Luke
1 500 000 $
C, AD, AG
UFA - 2
Logo de DAL
Comeau, Blake
1 000 000 $
AD, AG
UFA - 1
Défenseur gaucherDéfenseur droitierGardien de but
Logo de DAL
Suter, Ryan
3 650 000 $
DG
NMC
UFA - 4
Logo de DAL
Klingberg, John
4 250 000 $
DD
UFA - 1
Logo de DAL
Oettinger, Jake
925 000 $
G
RFA - 1
Logo de DAL
Lindell, Esa
5 800 000 $
DG
NMC
UFA - 4
Logo de DAL
Heiskanen, Miro
8 450 000 $
DG/DD
UFA - 8
Logo de DAL
Bishop, Ben
4 916 667 $
G
NMC NTC
UFA - 2
Logo de DAL
Harley, Thomas
863 333 $
DG
RFA - 3
Logo de DAL
Hakanpää, Jani
1 500 000 $
DD
UFA - 3
Laissés de côtéListe des blessés (IR)Liste des blessés à long terme (LTIR)
Logo de DAL
Hanley, Joel
750 000 $
DG/DD
UFA - 2
Logo de DAL
Sekera, Andrej
1 500 000 $
DG/DD
UFA - 1
Logo de EDM
Turris, Kyle
1 650 000 $
C, AD
UFA - 1

Unités spéciales

Avantage numérique 1
Robertson, J.
Hintz, R.
Gurianov, D.
Harley, T.
Klingberg, J.
Avantage numérique 2
Benn, J.
Seguin, T.
Peterson, J.
Kiviranta, J.
Heiskanen, M.
Infériorité numérique 1
Glendening, L.
Comeau, B.
Lindell, E.
Hakanpää, J.
Infériorité numérique 2
Hintz, R.
Raffl, M.
Suter, R.
Heiskanen, M.

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3 nov. 2021 à 16 h 45
#1
Temple of Ferraro
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Sharks don’t really have a roster spot for Pavs anymore. Our top 6 is set and I wouldn’t give that return for Pavs anyways.
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3 nov. 2021 à 16 h 49
#2
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I sub-root for both DAL and CGY... honestly, are these prospects (note, I'm not a prospect genius, but I haven't heard of a single one of them) and a couple 2nd round picks really worth all the trouble? Also, why wouldn't you deal Klingberg if you're rebuilding? I would think that'd be your first trade. Signing him, Robertson, and Oettinger alone brings you right up to the cap pretty much.

I don't think PIT has any long-term need for Faksa. They likely give Faksa's money to Carter.

I'm not sure Radulove will have enough of an impact on CGY to be worth anything anyway. Their depth chart is kind of all over the place right now, but he likely plays 3rd line RW, assuming Monahan breaks out of the doghouse and Dube goes back to wing.
3 nov. 2021 à 16 h 52
#3
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Koskinen and Smith are among the best goalies in the NHL right now. Why would Edmonton spend assets on a 3rd goalie?
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3 nov. 2021 à 16 h 52
#4
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Id be interested in Holtby, especially if Francouz stays out longer than expected
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3 nov. 2021 à 16 h 57
#5
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Quoting: CD282
Koskinen and Smith are among the best goalies in the NHL right now. Why would Edmonton spend assets on a 3rd goalie?


Tbh, the Edmonton/Khudobin trade was so popular on this site during the offseason I just kind of went with it here without too much thought. Personally think Dallas should have traded Khudobin when they had the chance this offseason, but that clearly didn't happen
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3 nov. 2021 à 16 h 57
#6
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I don't think the trade is terrible, but like @Bias_it_self said, I'm not sure we have a spot for Pavs and I wouldn't trade Bordeleau. So for those reasons, Sharks decline imo.

It is very tempting though.
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3 nov. 2021 à 16 h 58
#7
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Ya.... don't think SJ is the team that is going to pay Bordeleau for a rental, even if it is Pavelski. This team just isn't in position to go all in like that.

And since you asked, Bordeleau is the clear #2 prospect in the organization, with a pretty big margin over the rest of the prospects. He'll basically become the organization's top prospect assuming Eklund stays for the whole season (likely).
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3 nov. 2021 à 17 h 3
#8
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Quoting: mvp13
I sub-root for both DAL and CGY... honestly, are these prospects (note, I'm not a prospect genius, but I haven't heard of a single one of them) and a couple 2nd round picks really worth all the trouble? Also, why wouldn't you deal Klingberg if you're rebuilding? I would think that'd be your first trade. Signing him, Robertson, and Oettinger alone brings you right up to the cap pretty much.

I don't think PIT has any long-term need for Faksa. They likely give Faksa's money to Carter.

I'm not sure Radulove will have enough of an impact on CGY to be worth anything anyway. Their depth chart is kind of all over the place right now, but he likely plays 3rd line RW, assuming Monahan breaks out of the doghouse and Dube goes back to wing.


Appreciate the feedback.

Klingberg's play style is very friendly towards longevity. He's not a physical player at all, preserving his body from a good amount of wear and tear. With all that, I do believe that he would still be a viable top-4 RD in 3-4 years when (hopefully) the Stars would actually be competitive again. That's why I didn't trade him. Even as it stands today, Dallas can sign Robertson, Oettinger, & Gurianov to their next contracts, sign Klingberg to a massive $9.5M per year contract (obviously don't start negotiations here), and still have roughly $7.5M left over in cap space. With this ACGM, Dallas has $27M to sign their RFA's, Klingberg, and fill 4 roster spots. I'm not too worried about cap space moving forward, tbh.

Guys like Bordeleau and Stromgren are solid prospects. Not high end, top prospects, but good enough that they should definitely be able to carve out a role on a 2nd line at some point in their careers. Yoder is a local Texas kid & honestly I just wanted to get rid of Faksa's contract. There are a few Pens fans on here that love him, hence the Faksa to Pittsburgh trade.

The Radulov to Calgary trade was pretty much just a shot in the dark. This was under the assumption that the Flames didn't land Eichel. I figured Radulov would be a useful middle-6 RW for them during the playoff push.
3 nov. 2021 à 17 h 5
#9
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Quoting: Bias_it_self
Sharks don’t really have a roster spot for Pavs anymore. Our top 6 is set and I wouldn’t give that return for Pavs anyways.


Quoting: FunMustBeAlways
I don't think the trade is terrible, but like Bias_it_self said, I'm not sure we have a spot for Pavs and I wouldn't trade Bordeleau. So for those reasons, Sharks decline imo.

It is very tempting though.


Quoting: Klara
Ya.... don't think SJ is the team that is going to pay Bordeleau for a rental, even if it is Pavelski. This team just isn't in position to go all in like that.

And since you asked, Bordeleau is the clear #2 prospect in the organization, with a pretty big margin over the rest of the prospects. He'll basically become the organization's top prospect assuming Eklund stays for the whole season (likely).


Makes sense. I was high on Bordeleau last season during his draft year, so there was certainly a little bit of bias on my end there. Wasn't aware that he was that highly regarded in the Sharks organization.
3 nov. 2021 à 17 h 8
#10
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This is sheer robbery by Dallas to get Bordeleau. No way does SJ ever do this.
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3 nov. 2021 à 17 h 9
#11
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A month ago I'm making the Doby trade.. But Koskinen has been lights out so far and Smith looks good too so I don't think we make this trade, or at least not unless Koskinen walks this summer
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3 nov. 2021 à 17 h 15
#12
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You forgot to deal Comeau! We could get a king's ransom for him!!!

I admire the work you put in there. You must be the 4th person to suggest a sell out scenario in last days.

Maybe Radulov could be traded, with 50% retention, to the Canes. He would be perfect for them in a PO run. To make this work in terms of $$$, we could take Ian Cole in return with picks and/or prospects.
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3 nov. 2021 à 17 h 18
#13
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i don't mind picking up holtby as a 1B option. But i think there would need to be some retention. Colorado is gonna need all their cap to pay for some depth forwards at the rate they're getting injured
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3 nov. 2021 à 17 h 19
#14
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Kuemper isn’t struggling, his play has been good, avs just are dealing with lots of injuries, their pk has been brutal most games,

His stats aren’t sexy but in no way is he struggling. Grubauer leaving and being as bad as he is shows he’s not worth that contract. He’s been given up a lot of soft goals In Seattle
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3 nov. 2021 à 17 h 27
#15
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No way in Hell the sharks do that trade. I wouldn’t give up a 2nd for pavs at this point let alone a 2nd, 3rd, and one of their top prospects who won freshman of the year.
3 nov. 2021 à 17 h 28
#16
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Quoting: FunMustBeAlways
I don't think the trade is terrible, but like Bias_it_self said, I'm not sure we have a spot for Pavs and I wouldn't trade Bordeleau. So for those reasons, Sharks decline imo.

It is very tempting though.


You really think it’s tempting? Curious as to why, is it emotional since it’s pavs? To me, this isn’t close to tempting nor close on value.
3 nov. 2021 à 17 h 36
#17
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Quoting: glarson17
You really think it’s tempting? Curious as to why, is it emotional since it’s pavs? To me, this isn’t close to tempting nor close on value.


Maybe a bit over-zealous but I don't mind the idea of bringing Pavs back at 3.5M. Obviously nothing near worth trading Bordeleau for, but it's not something I hate if Dallas wants to move him and we are playoff-bound.
3 nov. 2021 à 17 h 50
#18
e
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sharks decline

apparently bordeleau is gonna be a stud
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3 nov. 2021 à 17 h 51
#19
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I like this a lot. I’m all for keeping Klinger if we’re moving on from Bones. Tho if we are keeping Klinger I’d call it more of a re tool and not a rebuild. As already stated I don’t think Edmonton is in the Dobby market any more and I’m not sure Pitt would still want Fox, but as you said those have been popular trades leading up to the season. Moving those two def makes keeping Klinger easier
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3 nov. 2021 à 17 h 54
#20
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I like all these deals from a Stars POV. Personally I don't see the Sharks or Avalanche deals happening simply because of the prospects you picked. IMO I wouldn't trade Holtby. He's played well and is younger than Bishop by 3 years. I'd just buy-out Bishop in the off-season seeing as we should have plenty of cap space.
3 nov. 2021 à 17 h 54
#21
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Quoting: glarson17
No way in Hell the sharks do that trade. I wouldn’t give up a 2nd for pavs at this point let alone a 2nd, 3rd, and one of their top prospects who won freshman of the year.


Including Bordeleau was a bit of a miscalculation on my end, but this whole trade is predicated on Pavelski putting up similar production to what he did last season, which was near PPG production in a Rick Bowness offense.

You wouldn’t even trade a 2nd round pick for a near PPG player if you’re in the middle of a potential deep playoff run?
3 nov. 2021 à 18 h 5
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Quoting: FunMustBeAlways
Maybe a bit over-zealous but I don't mind the idea of bringing Pavs back at 3.5M. Obviously nothing near worth trading Bordeleau for, but it's not something I hate if Dallas wants to move him and we are playoff-bound.


That’s fair, sharks would have to be contending and I wouldn’t want to trade a prospect or even a 2nd though
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3 nov. 2021 à 18 h 28
#23
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Quoting: TheMooterus
Including Bordeleau was a bit of a miscalculation on my end, but this whole trade is predicated on Pavelski putting up similar production to what he did last season, which was near PPG production in a Rick Bowness offense.

You wouldn’t even trade a 2nd round pick for a near PPG player if you’re in the middle of a potential deep playoff run?


Normally a team would be willing to, however I don’t think the sharks can afford that. They are still in this “reset” mode and trading for a rental, specifically an early round pick, isn’t a good idea imo. I do love me some Pavelski and would love to see him back in real but not at that cost.
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3 nov. 2021 à 18 h 31
#24
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Quoting: glarson17
That’s fair, sharks would have to be contending and I wouldn’t want to trade a prospect or even a 2nd though


I get that. I wouldn't really want to trade a 2nd either.
3 nov. 2021 à 20 h 22
#25
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Quoting: FunMustBeAlways
I get that. I wouldn't really want to trade a 2nd either.


I dont think the Sharks are in the market for a rental at this point. we probably would not need the retention at the deadline but trading better prospects is probably not in the cards but bringing Pavs back for next year would be something I would consider.
 
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