Forums/Armchair-GM

Time for a Trigger

Créé par: HatterTParty
Date de création initiale: 14 oct. 2021
Publié: 14 oct. 2021
Équipe: 2021-22 Blackhawks de Chicago
Explications
So, waking up this morning, all the talk about the game last night centered around one thing: the hit on Dach. For the sake of not stirring the pot, I’ll keep my in-depth opinion on this to myself (spoiler alert, a fine, not a suspension). Instead, I wanna look at something I’ve been waiting for for nearly two and a half years: Dach vs. byram at long last.

Let’s get the easy out of the way: Dach was, quite possibly, the better forward on the team last night. Insofar that the puck found him a lot and he tried to do a lot of positive things. However, no question he missed two chances a player of his “caliber” should have taken advantage. Darren pang said on numerous occasions last night that Dach has a phenomenal shot, and to that I simply say Darren doesn’t watch the hawks that much. Then there was byram. Byram, without much question in my mind, was the best skater, SKATER, on the ice for the Avs. In a team with cale Makar, that’s saying something. He was the number one star of the game with a goal and an assist and he was excellent throughout. It was a culmination of a draft that finally built towards this moment. I have to say, byram is looking exactly like he’s suppose to at this moment. I can’t really give him much more credit than that.

I said back in 2019, I don’t care what Dach does until byram is in the NHL full time, then it’s game on. Well, due respect, game 1 goes to byram. He’s a #1 D in the making and Dach is still improving. My only question is: shouldn’t it be the reverse between these two? Byram just gave me vindication, please prove me wrong though Dach. Friendly reminder: Dach’s gotta face this prime Avs team for ten more years.
Transactions
1.
CHI
  1. 2022 2e round pick (SEA)
SEA
  1. Strome, Dylan
2.
CHI
  1. 2023 3e round pick (TOR)
TOR
  1. Nylander, Alexander
Transactions impliquant une retenue de salaire
  • Olli Määttä: 750 108 $ (18%)
Enfoui
  • Brett Connolly: 2 375 000 $ (3 500 000 $)
ANNÉE DE REPÊCHAGERONDE 1RONDE 2RONDE 3RONDE 4RONDE 5RONDE 6RONDE 7
2022
CHI
SEA
EDM
TOR
VGK
CHI
CHI
CBJ
CHI
2023
CHI
CHI
TBL
CHI
TOR
CHI
CHI
CHI
CHI
2024
CHI
CHI
CHI
CHI
CHI
CHI
CHI
TAILLE DE LA FORMATIONPLAFOND SALARIALCAP HITEXCÉDENTS BONISESPACE SOUS LE PLAFOND SALARIAL
2281 500 000 $76 404 214 $452 439 $3 415 000 $5 095 786 $
Ailier gaucheCentreAilier droit
CHI
Kubalik, Dominik
3 700 000 $
AG, AD
RFA - 1
CHI
Toews, Jonathan
10 500 000 $
C
NMC
UFA - 2
CHI
Kurashev, Philipp
842 500 $
AG, AD
RFA - 1
CHI
DeBrincat, Alex
6 400 000 $
AG, AD
RFA - 2
CHI
Borgström, Henrik
1 000 000 $
C
RFA - 2
CHI
Kane, Patrick
10 500 000 $
AD
NMC
UFA - 2
CHI
Hagel, Brandon
1 500 000 $
AG
RFA - 3
CHI
Dach, Kirby
925 000 $
C, AD
RFA - 1
CHI
Johnson, Tyler
5 000 000 $
AD, C
NTC
UFA - 3
CHI
Khaira, Jujhar
975 000 $
C, AG
UFA - 2
CHI
Gaudette, Adam
997 500 $
C
RFA - 1
CHI
Carpenter, Ryan
1 000 000 $
AD, C
UFA - 1
Défenseur gaucherDéfenseur droitierGardien de but
CHI
De Haan, Calvin
4 550 000 $
DG/DD
UFA - 1
CHI
Jones, Seth
5 400 000 $
DD
NTC
UFA - 1
CHI
Fleury, Marc-André
7 000 000 $
G
NTC
UFA - 1
CHI
McCabe, Jake
4 000 000 $
DG
NTC
UFA - 4
CHI
Murphy, Connor
3 850 000 $
DD
UFA - 1
CHI
Lankinen, Kevin
800 000 $
G
UFA - 1
CHI
Stillman, Riley
1 350 000 $
DG
RFA - 3
CHI
Mitchell, Ian
925 000 $
DD
RFA - 2
Laissés de côtéListe des blessés (IR)Liste des blessés à long terme (LTIR)
CHI
Entwistle, Mackenzie
811 667 $
C
RFA - 1
CHI
Shaw, Andrew
3 900 000 $
C, AD
UFA - 1
CHI
Gustafsson, Erik
800 000 $
DG/DD
UFA - 1
CHI
Jones, Caleb
850 000 $
DG
RFA - 1

Code d'intégration

  • Pour afficher cette équipe sur un autre site Web ou blog, ajoutez ce iFrame à la page appropriée
  • Personnalisez les dimensions dans le code IFrame ci-dessous pour adapter votre site de manière appropriée. Minimum recommandé: 400px.

Texte intégré

Cliquer pour surligner
14 oct. à 14 h 52
#1
Temp GM
Rejoint: févr. 2018
Messages: 7,693
Mentions "j'aime": 3,896
My only response to a post like this is, “What would change if Byram was on Chicago and Dach was on Colorado” my answer is that the better player from a fan perspective will always be on Colorado. They are better at developing players, and creating good hockey teams. It’s just the way it is.. if Byram was drafted by the hawks my guess is that he would have been traded by now, probably a throw into the Jones deal in all likelihood. It’s because Chicago rushes players and gets disillusioned at the first sign of struggle… that’s why Mitchell will be in RFD, why Boq will be in CBJ, and why Joki will be in BUF.
HatterTParty et ChiHawk a aimé ceci.
14 oct. à 15 h 1
#2
Démarrer sujet
Rejoint: juin 2019
Messages: 2,226
Mentions "j'aime": 813
Quoting: Stan_Bowman
My only response to a post like this is, “What would change if Byram was on Chicago and Dach was on Colorado” my answer is that the better player from a fan perspective will always be on Colorado. They are better at developing players, and creating good hockey teams. It’s just the way it is.. if Byram was drafted by the hawks my guess is that he would have been traded by now, probably a throw into the Jones deal in all likelihood. It’s because Chicago rushes players and gets disillusioned at the first sign of struggle… that’s why Mitchell will be in RFD, why Boq will be in CBJ, and why Joki will be in BUF.


The problem with your response is you’re assuming the Avs would have taken him. I’ve heard all the stories of people saying the Avs would have, but that’s pure he said, she said. I’d honestly make the case they’d still take a dman of some kind, but again, who knows. Seider looks perfect for their defense.

Having said that, I don’t disagree with you on development. I don’t think Dach will ever be as good as he could have been simply cuz the hawks were too high on him. Letting him go to the NHL in season 1 and letting him go to world juniors. Correction, go to wjc camp and not even get to the tournament. There is a fundamental flaw in how this franchise runs itself these days.

What doesn’t change is simply this: both players are here now, and round 1 to byram. He looks exactly like he’s suppose to. Dach isn’t gonna get it easy against the Avs for another ten years.
14 oct. à 15 h 14
#3
exo2769
Rejoint: juill. 2015
Messages: 11,005
Mentions "j'aime": 4,681
Well, you and I disagree on the hit.

I can also admit that I was Byram guy at the draft. I thought getting a Keith replacement would be a good thing and it would be nice to have a puck moving LD right about now. I REALLY liked how Byram elevated his play during the WHL playoffs. He was huge. I also agree with @stan_bowman that the Hawks rush kids too fast. Why is Reichel in Rockford? Why not the WHL or DEL for one more year? Why did Boqvist only get 15 games in Rockford...Dach got literally 3.
ChiHawk a aimé ceci.
14 oct. à 15 h 17
#4
Rejoint: mai 2017
Messages: 5,781
Mentions "j'aime": 2,775
I would say Dach was clearly our best forward last night. If you want to be frusterated with any forward last night start with Kane. He created absultly zero offesivly the entire game till we pulled the goalie. Be mad at Johnson for two dumb penalties. Be mad at Borgstrom for being invisible. Yeah Dach needs to learn how to finish, but I would be waaayyy more concerned if he wasn't generating chances at all
exo2769 et ChiHawk a aimé ceci.
14 oct. à 15 h 17
#5
exo2769
Rejoint: juill. 2015
Messages: 11,005
Mentions "j'aime": 4,681
Quoting: HatterTParty
The problem with your response is you’re assuming the Avs would have taken him. I’ve heard all the stories of people saying the Avs would have, but that’s pure he said, she said. I’d honestly make the case they’d still take a dman of some kind, but again, who knows. Seider looks perfect for their defense.

Having said that, I don’t disagree with you on development. I don’t think Dach will ever be as good as he could have been simply cuz the hawks were too high on him. Letting him go to the NHL in season 1 and letting him go to world juniors. Correction, go to wjc camp and not even get to the tournament. There is a fundamental flaw in how this franchise runs itself these days.

What doesn’t change is simply this: both players are here now, and round 1 to byram. He looks exactly like he’s suppose to. Dach isn’t gonna get it easy against the Avs for another ten years.


I think this is mostly your bias right now. I admit I was a Byram guy, but he's played 1 game and in sheltered minutes on the bottom pair. They also play a really aggressive game and pounced on a team that wasn't ready.
ChiHawk a aimé ceci.
14 oct. à 15 h 18
#6
exo2769
Rejoint: juill. 2015
Messages: 11,005
Mentions "j'aime": 4,681
Quoting: Wadejos123
I would say Dach was clearly our best forward last night. If you want to be frusterated with any forward last night start with Kane. He created absultly zero offesivly the entire game till we pulled the goalie. Be mad at Johnson for two dumb penalties. Be mad at Borgstrom for being invisible. Yeah Dach needs to learn how to finish, but I would be waaayyy more concerned if he wasn't generating chances at all


If you liked Hagel last year...what's not to like about Dach's singular game yesterday? Dach was easily their best forward. Creating turnovers. Driving posession. Played the PK. Had a few GOOD solid (legal and not dirty) hits.
ChiHawk a aimé ceci.
14 oct. à 15 h 23
#7
Rejoint: mai 2017
Messages: 5,781
Mentions "j'aime": 2,775
Quoting: exo2769
If you liked Hagel last year...what's not to like about Dach's singular game yesterday? Dach was easily their best forward. Creating turnovers. Driving posession. Played the PK. Had a few GOOD solid (legal and not dirty) hits.


I mean I love Dach and Hagel. Strome frusterates me at times, borgstrom did last night, Colliton definetly does. But not dach or hagel
exo2769 a aimé ceci.
14 oct. à 15 h 38
#8
Rejoint: juin 2015
Messages: 16,332
Mentions "j'aime": 7,718
dach will be good, hes going to be a handful for years to come

Just take into consideration that Dmen do not make the same impacts earlier on, especially at 18-19 years old like Byram was last season. Forwards have came into the league at 18-19 and been dynamite, Lots of time for both plaers to mold into their entering prime years, they are both super talented. Its hard to compare those 2 at 19 years old, Gotta do this when they are 23-24
ChiHawk et exo2769 a aimé ceci.
14 oct. à 15 h 52
#9
Rejoint: avr. 2017
Messages: 13,607
Mentions "j'aime": 4,713
Actually, what you said in 2019 is you wanted Turcotte and if not him, then Byram before Dach. I was in alignment with you back then as well.

However, hindsight is 20/20 and takes a humble person to realize that was wrong. Today Turcotte versus Dach...I'll take Dach every day of the week and hopefully you aren't foolish to not realize that as well. To say Byram looked much better then Dach last night is also wrong; Byram is playing on a much better more talented elite team...that's about the only thing you should have taken away.
14 oct. à 15 h 55
#10
Démarrer sujet
Rejoint: juin 2019
Messages: 2,226
Mentions "j'aime": 813
Quoting: exo2769
Well, you and I disagree on the hit.

I can also admit that I was Byram guy at the draft. I thought getting a Keith replacement would be a good thing and it would be nice to have a puck moving LD right about now. I REALLY liked how Byram elevated his play during the WHL playoffs. He was huge. I also agree with stan_bowman that the Hawks rush kids too fast. Why is Reichel in Rockford? Why not the WHL or DEL for one more year? Why did Boqvist only get 15 games in Rockford...Dach got literally 3.


Couldn’t agree more on reichel. I’d love him to get another season in the DEL. AHL feels more like a purgatory right now cuz he seems better than Rockford and not enough for Chicago right now. I don’t know, tough call. Boqvist you hit the nail on the head, but Dach never shoulda played in the nhl immediately.
14 oct. à 15 h 57
#11
Démarrer sujet
Rejoint: juin 2019
Messages: 2,226
Mentions "j'aime": 813
Quoting: Wadejos123
I would say Dach was clearly our best forward last night. If you want to be frusterated with any forward last night start with Kane. He created absultly zero offesivly the entire game till we pulled the goalie. Be mad at Johnson for two dumb penalties. Be mad at Borgstrom for being invisible. Yeah Dach needs to learn how to finish, but I would be waaayyy more concerned if he wasn't generating chances at all


No question your right. I addressed that in another comment on another thread too! Whole team was poor and really Dach might have been a lone bright spot albeit not taking his chances. This thread is more about Dach vs byram.
Wadejos123 a aimé ceci.
14 oct. à 15 h 59
#12
Démarrer sujet
Rejoint: juin 2019
Messages: 2,226
Mentions "j'aime": 813
Quoting: exo2769
I think this is mostly your bias right now. I admit I was a Byram guy, but he's played 1 game and in sheltered minutes on the bottom pair. They also play a really aggressive game and pounced on a team that wasn't ready.


I don’t disagree with you with the analysis. Well said for sure! He was sheltered, but I will he was impactful in every way. However, them being aggressive against an unready team shouldn’t be a judgement against byram should it? The Avs are just a class above the hawks. No question.
exo2769 a aimé ceci.
14 oct. à 16 h 2
#13
Démarrer sujet
Rejoint: juin 2019
Messages: 2,226
Mentions "j'aime": 813
Quoting: coga16
dach will be good, hes going to be a handful for years to come

Just take into consideration that Dmen do not make the same impacts earlier on, especially at 18-19 years old like Byram was last season. Forwards have came into the league at 18-19 and been dynamite, Lots of time for both plaers to mold into their entering prime years, they are both super talented. Its hard to compare those 2 at 19 years old, Gotta do this when they are 23-24


You’re not wrong, in fact makar, hughes, and heiskanen may be the only dmen that made immediate impacts at young ages in the past few years. But byram looks to the confidence to be that guy now. Dach, I’m still not seeing it. He drives possession and plays a great defensive game, but the offense is still suspect to me. He puts himself in great spots but can’t put in a finished product. That concerns me. Yes, he’s young. But many hawks fans told me to wait till byram is in the league to bash Dach. Well he’s here, and he just dunked on us in round 1.
14 oct. à 16 h 5
#14
Démarrer sujet
Rejoint: juin 2019
Messages: 2,226
Mentions "j'aime": 813
Quoting: ChiHawk
Actually, what you said in 2019 is you wanted Turcotte and if not him, then Byram before Dach. I was in alignment with you back then as well.

However, hindsight is 20/20 and takes a humble person to realize that was wrong. Today Turcotte versus Dach...I'll take Dach every day of the week and hopefully you aren't foolish to not realize that as well. To say Byram looked much better then Dach last night is also wrong; Byram is playing on a much better more talented elite team...that's about the only thing you should have taken away.


ChiHawk, I don’t think there’s a conceivable way for us to have a civil conversation on this site. Forget about Turcotte. This is Dach and byram. If your telling me cuz I put turcotte in the conversation that’s what I’m held to, have fun. Otherwise, byram dunked on Dach, round 1 to byram.
14 oct. à 16 h 16
#15
Good Opinion Haver
Rejoint: juin 2018
Messages: 1,354
Mentions "j'aime": 620
I think Pang is half right about Dach's shot, in that I do think he has a good one, but from what I've seen and read about Dach is that his shot is a complement to the real asset he has, which is his vision. He was always able to see things really well at lower levels in his career which allowed him to score goals that no one else could score (a testament to his finishing), but it also helped him in his playmaking which is how he was able to rack up the assists in the WHL. I don't think he's quite figured that out at the NHL level yet, but he's only 20 years old.

That said, Byram was always the better prospect, and a lot of people criticized Chicago at the time for reaching on Dach when Byram (and others) were available. In that sense, Dach is probably unfairly going to have to be compared to someone like Byram when you really can't blame a player for getting picked too high. But it's only been one game, Byram played not near as tough of minutes as Dach last night and he plays on a much better team. I do think Byram is going to be the better player (even though comparing a defenseman to a forward is apples to oranges in some regards) but it's much too early to make any definitive statements about Byram's progression or Dach's lack therof and Dach is still going to be a good player in this league. It may be as simple as "he was picked ahead of better players", and like I said, not his fault.
HatterTParty a aimé ceci.
14 oct. à 16 h 20
#16
Rejoint: avr. 2017
Messages: 13,607
Mentions "j'aime": 4,713
Quoting: HatterTParty
ChiHawk, I don’t think there’s a conceivable way for us to have a civil conversation on this site. Forget about Turcotte. This is Dach and byram. If your telling me cuz I put turcotte in the conversation that’s what I’m held to, have fun. Otherwise, byram dunked on Dach, round 1 to byram.


Hatter, I'm simply bringing up that you wanted Turcotte in 2019 first contrary to what you stated above who Dach is simply a better pick then at this point and it's not close.

That said, how do you objectively look at a defensive player on a elite team comparably to a center on middling team and say one was better then other and "dunked on Dach"? I never saw Byram "dunk" on Dach or take Dach out during last night's game; I know that's not your point but that would be the best way to compare the two is head on head matchup. If anything, objectively speaking, Dach proved more valuable given he was the Hawks best player versus byram looking good surrounded by an elite team with an elite system in a sheltered role. Put Dach on the Avs and you don't think he'd displace Kadri or at a minimum Newhook flanked by better talent around him and look even better?

There's plenty of conceivable ways to have civil objective discussions as I do with 95% of others, but not so much when people throw subjective bias (someone else here mentioned that as well) in the air and fail to look at things objectively speaking. Dach played lights out, Byram played lights out...the difference is who surrounds them and the positions they play...saying one is better then the other last night is a fool's errand as others are telling you. Dach is a fantastic prospect and proving the critics, me included in 2019, wrong.
14 oct. à 16 h 21
#17
Démarrer sujet
Rejoint: juin 2019
Messages: 2,226
Mentions "j'aime": 813
Quoting: TheEarthmaster
I think Pang is half right about Dach's shot, in that I do think he has a good one, but from what I've seen and read about Dach is that his shot is a complement to the real asset he has, which is his vision. He was always able to see things really well at lower levels in his career which allowed him to score goals that no one else could score (a testament to his finishing), but it also helped him in his playmaking which is how he was able to rack up the assists in the WHL. I don't think he's quite figured that out at the NHL level yet, but he's only 20 years old.

That said, Byram was always the better prospect, and a lot of people criticized Chicago at the time for reaching on Dach when Byram (and others) were available. In that sense, Dach is probably unfairly going to have to be compared to someone like Byram when you really can't blame a player for getting picked too high. But it's only been one game, Byram played not near as tough of minutes as Dach last night and he plays on a much better team. I do think Byram is going to be the better player (even though comparing a defenseman to a forward is apples to oranges in some regards) but it's much too early to make any definitive statements about Byram's progression or Dach's lack therof and Dach is still going to be a good player in this league. It may be as simple as "he was picked ahead of better players", and like I said, not his fault.


Well said! I literally don’t have much to add to that.
TheEarthmaster a aimé ceci.
14 oct. à 16 h 26
#18
Démarrer sujet
Rejoint: juin 2019
Messages: 2,226
Mentions "j'aime": 813
Quoting: ChiHawk
Hatter, I'm simply bringing up that you wanted Turcotte in 2019 first contrary to what you stated above who Dach is simply a better pick then at this point and it's not close.

That said, how do you objectively look at a defensive player on a elite team comparably to a center on middling team and say one was better then other and "dunked on Dach"? I never saw Byram "dunk" on Dach or take Dach out during last night's game; I know that's not your point but that would be the best way to compare the two is head on head matchup. If anything, objectively speaking, Dach proved more valuable given he was the Hawks best player versus byram looking good surrounded by an elite team with an elite system in a sheltered role. Put Dach on the Avs and you don't think he'd displace Kadri or at a minimum Newhook flanked by better talent around him and look even better?

There's plenty of conceivable ways to have civil objective discussions as I do with 95% of others, but not so much when you throw subjective bias (someone else here mentioned that as well) in the air and fail to look at things objectively speaking. Dach played lights out, Byram played lights out...the difference is who surrounds them and the positions they play...saying one is better then the other last night is a fool's errand as others are telling you.


I said a while back I’ll stay off your threads if you’d stay off mine. Granted I’ve quoted others comments on your threads, so I apologize for the infraction. What I said then I still stands now, take care and be well.
14 oct. à 18 h 1
#19
Rejoint: avr. 2017
Messages: 13,607
Mentions "j'aime": 4,713
Modifié 14 oct. à 18 h 26
Quoting: HatterTParty
I said a while back I’ll stay off your threads if you’d stay off mine. Granted I’ve quoted others comments on your threads, so I apologize for the infraction. What I said then I still stands now, take care and be well.


You've been posting on my threads including as recently as last week, BUT it's a public forum and that invites any and all to comment whether you agree or like the comments or not...no problems here. I'm not into personal vendettas we are adults and it's okay not to agree or to get holes punched in your own point of view; that is part of the intent of discussion and disagreements on any forum. If you are looking for an echo chamber there are plenty of those fan sites for that but this one tends to be more objective generally speaking at least with the regulars. No need to apologize, I don't mind you commenting on my threads just be ready for a good debate.
14 oct. à 18 h 39
#20
exo2769
Rejoint: juill. 2015
Messages: 11,005
Mentions "j'aime": 4,681
Landy got two games. I was looking for 1.
14 oct. à 18 h 41
#21
Démarrer sujet
Rejoint: juin 2019
Messages: 2,226
Mentions "j'aime": 813
Quoting: exo2769
Landy got two games. I was looking for 1.


I get it, considering what others were asking for, I do understand.
exo2769 a aimé ceci.
14 oct. à 18 h 56
#22
exo2769
Rejoint: juill. 2015
Messages: 11,005
Mentions "j'aime": 4,681
Quoting: HatterTParty
I get it, considering what others were asking for, I do understand.


Wasn't attacking or meaning to attack. Just an update
14 oct. à 19 h 46
#23
Démarrer sujet
Rejoint: juin 2019
Messages: 2,226
Mentions "j'aime": 813
Quoting: exo2769
Wasn't attacking or meaning to attack. Just an update


No no! Definitely didn’t think you were, no worries! I mean I get the length. Considering others were crying out for 5, two really is understandable. I was with you, I thought 1.
exo2769 a aimé ceci.
 
Répondre
To create a post please Login or S'inscrire
Question:
Options:
Ajouter une option
Supprimer une option
Soumettre le sondage