yeah, you're not getting brown without keeping zaitsev

If Tavares had gone to San Jose, the Leafs would spend that elsewhere. I imagine Holl would be on the team, maybe Zaitsev, and there would have been cap for Connor Brown too.
Somehow the Leafs would had to fill that 2C position before Hertl was available.
The worse scenario would have been the Leafs spend that Tavares cap on a UFA...like Erik Karlsson.

Ottawa declines.

Connor Brown, by himself, will cost the equivalent of 2 first round picks.

Similar to what the Tampa Bay Lightning paid for Blake Coleman.

you're crazy

Of Tavares ended up in San Jose then Marners contract likely comes in closer to the 8 million range

I'm not crazy.


You're crazy for not offering something special for a special player like Connor Brown.


Especially when you're trading him back to the same division rival that sent him to Ottawa in the first place.


If we can't have the equivalent of two firsts for Connor Brown, then New Jersey shouldn't have got that for Blake Coleman.



It's that simple.

If Tavares went to San Jose we likley wouldn't have made the Colorado deal so Kadri either would have been traded elsewhere or most likley kept and Kerfoot wouldn't be a leaf as well. Also, Matthew's and Marners contracts likley wouldn't have cost us as much. Crazy to think of the ripple affect 1 move can have.

I wonder what @Trickster and @onex think of this?

I'm JT fan, I wanted Leafs to tank to draft him.

Yeah the Tavares signing definitely had that ripple effect. I also feel management shortchanged the rebuild abit.

Needed to trade 1-2 more of the vets to have a bigger stockpile of draft picks.

I am too. I'm not trying to bash JT just thinking about the ripple effect his signing has had on our team. I never do this woulda, shoulda, coulda and there's no guarantee AM & MM would have signed for less, just thinking of how our team would or could look rn if we didn't sign him.

Ps I still think we made the right decision.

I couldn't agree more. I remember talk at the time was we could get a late 1st for Komorov and a late 1st and a decent prospect, or a 2nd and good prospect for Bozak. Also, JVR could net us a 1st and top prospect had we have traded them at the deadline. The next year they (TSN & Sportsnet) where saying we could get a 1st for Gardiner. Instead we traded a 2nd for Boyle and then proceed to trade another 2nd for Pleckanek the next year. I would have been a seller on those deadlines.

Connor Brown isn't a "special player".

Connor Brown is the #1 penalty killer in the National Hockey League.

He logs a ton of ice time, scores shorthanded goals in bunches, can play with anybody up or down the lineup, and is in the conversation to win the Selke Trophy.

If that doesn't fit your definition of a special player, I don't know what does.

He was first in TOI - mostly because the weak Sens roster had few options - not even close top #1 when it comes to results. Of the top 125 forwards by TOI at 4v5, Brown ranked

- 99th by shots against/60
- 88th by goals against/60
- 96th by expected goals against/60
- 112th by scoring chances against/60

Link

If you take the Sens top 4 PK forwards, Brown ranked

- 4th by shots against/60
- 3rd by goals against/60
- 4th by expected goals against/60
- 4th by scoring chances against/60

Link


Again, this is because Ottawa has a crap roster and the coach didn't have much choice. He's a 3rd liner on a contender.




He finished 17th in voting, hardly "in the conversation" to win it.

You're clearly delusional.

1. Thank you for using cherry-picked stats to fit your narrative.

You're the most honest person to ever start an argument.



2. Oilers have only gotten past the first round of the playoffs once in the last 15 years.

They are crap when you look past McDavid and Draisaitl.

If you think the Oilers are contenders and that Yamamoto, Foegele or Kassian would get priority over Connor Brown, you're delusional.




3. The fact that Connor Brown got any votes at all suggests he's in the conversation to win the Selke Trophy along with anybody else who received votes.

The 10 people that voted for Connor Brown probably had a conversation about why Connor Brown should win it.

That means he's "in the conversation".

That's not delusional.




4. You're clearly a troll.

Boys, who do you think the Jay's should keep if they can only keep one... Semien or Ray?

Tough question.
Ray is 30 or turning 30 and we know how pitchers generally regress quite a bit after 30 while position players can regress more gracefully.

I might be leaning towards signing Semien and signing a younger pitcher than Ray but all that is easier said than done.

I'd sign both if possible but if I had to pick one it would be semien. Ray has had an up and down carrer to this point and I'd be worried about giving him term. IMO, semien has had a bigger impact on the team in terms of leadership and he's produced. He wants to play short stop so I'd put him there and slide bo to 2nd where his defence will play better.

I'm suprised by your pick as most would rather have Ray... I guess great minds think alike!😉😎

I'm impressed with what Ray has done this season but I'm also aware of what will term mean to a club trying to contend. Ryu is the example of why giving term to pitchers post 30 years old is not a good idea.

Very true. Also, Ryu was more consistent throughout his career prior to signing. I like Ray but I think most blue jays fans aren't thinking about the future and what his next contract will do to our chances of competing if he struggles at any point.