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Improvements to Sign Kaprizov Long term

Créé par: tvh_0703
Équipe: 2021-22 Wild du Minnesota
Date de création initiale: 16 sept. 2021
Publié: 16 sept. 2021
Mode - plafond salarial: Basique
Description
Trade for Eichel, Goligoski makes salary work, but could add someone like Zuccarello instead and then a lesser pick. Or if both reject, you could centre around Fiala and Rask, and remove Boldy and lessen pick. Then based on the initial package, Buffalo gets future goalie, Rask who could get flipped for picks, Boldy to add to young potential stars, and a 1st.

Minny has Wallstedt coming up so only need to temporarily find some back ups til he's ready... therefore sign back Dubnyk.

Sign Staal to a cost friendly deal as he did well in Minny and likes it there, and would be a decent 4th line centre.

Could look for a way to improve their 4th D-man, but with Lambos and Addison coming up, they could be ready quickly.
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16 sept. 2021 à 18 h 51
#1
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Minnesota doesn't have the cap space to sustain this roster beyond one season
Staal may have liked it here, but he's washed up and Guerin got rid of him for a reason, he's not going to bring him back
16 sept. 2021 à 18 h 52
#2
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Boldy, a 1st in 2024, and a goalie they dont need? Pretty easy no from the Sabres IMO

Your logic on Wallstedt is flawed, he's likely 5-6 years away from making the NHL
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16 sept. 2021 à 18 h 52
#3
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Even if the package was enough, there's no way Buffalo accepts a 2024 1st round pick.
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16 sept. 2021 à 18 h 57
#4
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Quoting: Ledge_And_Dairy
Boldy, a 1st, and a goalie they dont need? Pretty easy no from the Sabres IMO

Your logic on Wallstedt is flawed, he's at least 5-6 years away from making the NHL


Based on what? Vasilevski made the NHL two seasons after being drafted, Knight didn't even take two full years. Hart made it his third year post draft. Oettinger was there after three years. Blackwood took three years.

By what standard is Wallstedt 5-6 years away from playing in the NHL at minimum?
16 sept. 2021 à 18 h 59
#5
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Quoting: Caerii
Based on what? Vasilevski made the NHL two seasons after being drafted, Knight didn't even take two full years. Hart made it his third year post draft. Oettinger was there after three years. Blackwood took three years.

By what standard is Wallstedt 5-6 years away from playing in the NHL at minimum?


I changed my comment before you answered to "likely 5-6 years" and that is based on the average growth of goalies.
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16 sept. 2021 à 19 h 3
#6
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Quoting: Ledge_And_Dairy
I changed my comment before you answered to "likely 5-6 years" and that is based on the average growth of goalies.


It's still not likely either. How many goalies were drafted after playing against men and took 6 years to play in the NHL? If Wallstedt is the quality of player/prospect he was touted to be, he's going to be much closer to 2-3 years than 5-6. There was already some talk of him coming to the WHL/AHL this season. Next year he'll almost certainly be in Iowa. After that, it's not going to take 4 more years for him to make the Wild unless his career completely derails.
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16 sept. 2021 à 19 h 12
#7
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Quoting: Caerii
It's still not likely either. How many goalies were drafted after playing against men and took 6 years to play in the NHL? If Wallstedt is the quality of player/prospect he was touted to be, he's going to be much closer to 2-3 years than 5-6. There was already some talk of him coming to the WHL/AHL this season. Next year he'll almost certainly be in Iowa. After that, it's not going to take 4 more years for him to make the Wild unless his career completely derails.


Believe what you want man, I'm not calling him a bad prospect or trying to undermine him in any way. All I'm saying is goalies usually take a lot longer to develop, you shouldnt have high expectations for him to come up earlier than average. My guess is his age 22/23 year he will be the earliest he make his NHL debut, any sooner than that is pretty unrealistic
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16 sept. 2021 à 19 h 22
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Quoting: Ledge_And_Dairy
Believe what you want man, I'm not calling him a bad prospect or trying to undermine him in any way. All I'm saying is goalies usually take a lot longer to develop, you shouldnt have high expectations for him to come up earlier than average. My guess is his age 22/23 year he will be the earliest he make his NHL debut, any sooner than that is pretty unrealistic


Except... professional scouts have routinely stated and said that they believe him to be 2-3 years away from the NHL.

5-6 is the typical average projection range for most typical average goaltenders. Wallstedt isn't your average goalie prospect.
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16 sept. 2021 à 19 h 24
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Quoting: RazWild
Except... professional scouts have routinely stated and said that they believe him to be 2-3 years away from the NHL.

5-6 is the typical average projection range for most typical average goaltenders. Wallstedt isn't your average goalie prospect.


Can you provide a link to this? In either scenario Talbot's contract is over and you are banking on signing another filler goalie while trying to remain competitive instead of just keeping your good young goalie in Kahkonen
16 sept. 2021 à 19 h 30
#10
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Quoting: Ledge_And_Dairy
Believe what you want man, I'm not calling him a bad prospect or trying to undermine him in any way. All I'm saying is goalies usually take a lot longer to develop, you shouldnt have high expectations for him to come up earlier than average. My guess is his age 22/23 year he will be the earliest he make his NHL debut, any sooner than that is pretty unrealistic


Here's the problem I'm having with taking your opinion seriously. I asked you to tell me what you're basing your 5-6 year timeline on, and you told me it's the average timeline for all goalies to make their debut. That's it. That tells me you don't know a whole lot about Wallstedt, because if you did, you would have brought up something about him specifically, which is fine, but then it's a little weird that you're offering your opinion so matter of factly.
Further, what your point takes into account, that you don't seem to acknowledge, is that an average includes numbers higher and lower than the average. Wallstedt is a highly regarded prospect who was already playing in a top men's league at 17. As said above, professional scouts have noted his games maturity and offered the opinion that he's relatively close to the NHL. In other words, he is not an average goalie prospect, he is above average.
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16 sept. 2021 à 19 h 36
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Goligoski says no so this trade ends before it starts. Even if it somehow went though MN wouldn't be able to ice a team next year without dumping a top of cap.
16 sept. 2021 à 19 h 54
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Quoting: Caerii
Here's the problem I'm having with taking your opinion seriously. I asked you to tell me what you're basing your 5-6 year timeline on, and you told me it's the average timeline for all goalies to make their debut. That's it. That tells me you don't know a whole lot about Wallstedt, because if you did, you would have brought up something about him specifically, which is fine, but then it's a little weird that you're offering your opinion so matter of factly.
Further, what your point takes into account, that you don't seem to acknowledge, is that an average includes numbers higher and lower than the average. Wallstedt is a highly regarded prospect who was already playing in a top men's league at 17. As said above, professional scouts have noted his games maturity and offered the opinion that he's relatively close to the NHL. In other words, he is not an average goalie prospect, he is above average.


Again I changed my original statement to "likely" I am saying he will probably make the NHL at age 23 or 24, you are trying to argue he makes it at age 20. 6 current NHL goalies made NHL debuts at age 20 or under; Fleury, Price, Vasilevskiy, Lehner, Gibson, and Knight. That's a really high standard to hold him to. Those teams that brought up those goalies also didn't have that much in terms of goalie depth and more or less forced the job upon them, or the goalie was held to such high regard that they won a spot right out of camp

Minnesota does not have a goalie depth issue currently and should not be forcing themselves into one just for the sake of rushing a prospect
16 sept. 2021 à 20 h 4
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Quoting: Ledge_And_Dairy
Again I changed my original statement to "likely" I am saying he will probably make the NHL at age 23 or 24, you are trying to argue he makes it at age 20. 6 current NHL goalies made NHL debuts at age 20 or under; Fleury, Price, Vasilevskiy, Lehner, Gibson, and Knight. That's a really high standard to hold him to. Those teams that brought up those goalies also didn't have that much in terms of goalie depth and more or less forced the job upon them, or the goalie was held to such high regard that they won a spot right out of camp

Minnesota does not have a goalie depth issue currently and should not be forcing themselves into one just for the sake of rushing a prospect


I am not talking about rushing a goalie prospect, I am talking about a goalie winning a spot on the roster out of camp at age 21 or 22, not age 23 or 24.

The only argument you seem to have is aggregate data that means nothing when it comes to talking about an individual. I'm talking about the level of prospect/player he is.
16 sept. 2021 à 20 h 7
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Quoting: Caerii
I am not talking about rushing a goalie prospect, I am talking about a goalie winning a spot on the roster out of camp at age 21 or 22, not age 23 or 24.

The only argument you seem to have is aggregate data that means nothing when it comes to talking about an individual. I'm talking about the level of prospect/player he is.


He's 18, you said 2-3 years, that's age 20-21. I'm not going to sit here and argue this since you know your prospects better than me but generally speaking thinking he comes up that early is not realistic. Ill leave it at that
16 sept. 2021 à 20 h 7
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Sabres decline and Minnesota has to worry about the cap for 2 years after this season
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16 sept. 2021 à 20 h 11
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Quoting: Ledge_And_Dairy
He's 18, you said 2-3 years, that's age 20-21. I'm not going to sit here and argue this since you know your prospects better than me but generally speaking thinking he comes up that early is not realistic. Ill leave it at that


This is his 19 year old season.

Generally speaking, most NHL players (forwards) go pro at around 20. Yet this year Stutzle was 18 and Kaprizov was 23. You can't use averages to make your case because by their nature they have data points above and below the actual average. It's disingenuous to say he won't be there for 5-6 years because of "the average". You're completely disregarding the individual, and the data points that go into creating that average.
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16 sept. 2021 à 20 h 14
#17
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Quoting: Caerii
It's still not likely either. How many goalies were drafted after playing against men and took 6 years to play in the NHL? If Wallstedt is the quality of player/prospect he was touted to be, he's going to be much closer to 2-3 years than 5-6. There was already some talk of him coming to the WHL/AHL this season. Next year he'll almost certainly be in Iowa. After that, it's not going to take 4 more years for him to make the Wild unless his career completely derails.


Wallstedt dropped, so you may want to temper expectations, there were a lot of teams that needed goalies that passed on him and even a goalie that went before him. Plus hes in the SHL now, theres no need to rush him. He'll probably be about 22 before he gets a taste of the NHL, let alone a starter
16 sept. 2021 à 20 h 15
#18
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Quoting: Shibbal18
Wallstedt dropped, so you may want to temper expectations, there were a lot of teams that needed goalies that passed on him and even a goalie that went before him. Plus hes in the SHL now, theres no need to rush him. He'll probably be about 22 before he gets a taste of the NHL, let alone a starter


I don't temper my expectations (or raise them) for prospects based on other peoples opinions. I know them well enough to form my own opinion.
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16 sept. 2021 à 20 h 17
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Quoting: Ledge_And_Dairy
I changed my comment before you answered to "likely 5-6 years" and that is based on the average growth of goalies.


Wallstedt is not an average goalie prospect....
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16 sept. 2021 à 20 h 21
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Quoting: Caerii
This is his 19 year old season.

Generally speaking, most NHL players (forwards) go pro at around 20. Yet this year Stutzle was 18 and Kaprizov was 23. You can't use averages to make your case because by their nature they have data points above and below the actual average. It's disingenuous to say he won't be there for 5-6 years because of "the average". You're completely disregarding the individual, and the data points that go into creating that average.


Kaprizov is not an example for a forward making a debut, he's been NHL ready for a while just didn't come over until now
16 sept. 2021 à 20 h 22
#21
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Quoting: C21
Wallstedt is not an average goalie prospect....


I didn't call him an average goalie prospect, I said baised on average goalie growth, completely different things
16 sept. 2021 à 20 h 28
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Quoting: Shibbal18
Wallstedt dropped, so you may want to temper expectations, there were a lot of teams that needed goalies that passed on him and even a goalie that went before him. Plus hes in the SHL now, theres no need to rush him. He'll probably be about 22 before he gets a taste of the NHL, let alone a starter


Goalies drop, it happens. So do steals. Wallstedt was a steal. One of the, if the the single best goalie prospect since Vasy or Price. He's right there with Knight and Askarov when it comes to how good of a prospect he is.

Draft position has nothing to do with the equation
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16 sept. 2021 à 20 h 36
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Quoting: Ledge_And_Dairy
I didn't call him an average goalie prospect, I said baised on average goalie growth, completely different things


Your saying his growth will likely be that of an average goaltending prospect. I'm saying it won't because he is not nearly an average goaltending prospect. No tendie in their draft year has ever had the type of role he had this past season
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16 sept. 2021 à 20 h 54
#24
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Quoting: C21
Your saying his growth will likely be that of an average goaltending prospect. I'm saying it won't because he is not nearly an average goaltending prospect. No tendie in their draft year has ever had the type of role he had this past season


I'm saying his growth rate will be about the same. Where he was in his development at the time changes things
16 sept. 2021 à 21 h 40
#25
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Quoting: C21
Goalies drop, it happens. So do steals. Wallstedt was a steal. One of the, if the the single best goalie prospect since Vasy or Price. He's right there with Knight and Askarov when it comes to how good of a prospect he is.

Draft position has nothing to do with the equation


based on what pre draft hype and biased fluff pieces?
 
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