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The asking price on Hertl using the 3 teams that I think are on his trade list

Créé par: sensonfire
Équipe: 2021-22 Sharks de San Jose
Date de création initiale: 13 sept. 2021
Publié: 13 sept. 2021
Mode - plafond salarial: Basique
Description
Based on a previous post of mine:


https://www.capfriendly.com/armchair-gm/team/2782868
Signatures de joueurs autonomes
RFAANSCAP HIT
1750 000 $
Transactions
1.
SJS
  1. Beecher, John [Liste de réserve]
  2. Choix de 1e ronde en 2022 (BOS)
BOS
  1. Hertl, Tomas (2 812 500 $ retained)
2.
SJS
  1. Foote, Cal
  2. Choix de 1e ronde en 2022 (TBL)
TBL
    Tomas Hertl with retention
    3.
    SJS
    1. Brisson, Brendan [Liste de réserve]
    2. Choix de 1e ronde en 2022 (VGK)
    VGK
      Tomas Hertl with retention
      Rachats de contrats
      Transactions impliquant une retenue de salaire
      Repêchage1e ronde2e ronde3e ronde4e ronde5e ronde6e ronde7e ronde
      2022
      Logo de SJS
      Logo de BOS
      Logo de TBL
      Logo de VGK
      Logo de SJS
      Logo de SJS
      Logo de BUF
      Logo de SJS
      Logo de ARI
      Logo de MIN
      2023
      Logo de SJS
      Logo de SJS
      Logo de SJS
      Logo de SJS
      Logo de SJS
      Logo de SJS
      Logo de SJS
      2024
      Logo de SJS
      Logo de SJS
      Logo de SJS
      Logo de SJS
      Logo de SJS
      Logo de SJS
      TAILLE DE LA FORMATIONPLAFOND SALARIALCAP HITEXCÉDENTS Info-bulleBONISESPACE SOUS LE PLAFOND SALARIAL
      2281 500 000 $62 539 530 $0 $425 000 $18 960 470 $
      Ailier gaucheCentreAilier droit
      Logo de Sharks de San Jose
      2 108 696 $2 108 696 $
      AG, AD
      NMC
      UFA - 1
      Logo de Sharks de San Jose
      8 000 000 $8 000 000 $
      C
      M-NTC
      UFA - 6
      Logo de Sharks de San Jose
      4 725 000 $4 725 000 $
      AD, AG
      UFA - 3
      Logo de Sharks de San Jose
      3 000 000 $3 000 000 $
      AG, AD
      UFA - 2
      Logo de Sharks de San Jose
      1 025 000 $1 025 000 $
      C, AG
      M-NTC
      UFA - 2
      Logo de Sharks de San Jose
      1 550 000 $1 550 000 $
      AG, AD
      UFA - 2
      Logo de Sharks de San Jose
      500 000 $500 000 $
      AG
      UFA - 1
      Logo de Sharks de San Jose
      1 100 000 $1 100 000 $
      C
      UFA - 1
      Logo de Sharks de San Jose
      1 000 000 $1 000 000 $
      AD, AG
      UFA - 1
      Logo de Sharks de San Jose
      925 000 $925 000 $ (Bonis de performance212 500 $$212K)
      AG, AD
      RFA - 1
      Logo de Sharks de San Jose
      750 000 $750 000 $
      AD, C
      UFA - 1
      Logo de Sharks de San Jose
      850 000 $850 000 $
      AG, AD
      UFA - 2
      Défenseur gaucherDéfenseur droitierGardien de but
      Logo de Sharks de San Jose
      925 000 $925 000 $ (Bonis de performance212 500 $$212K)
      DG
      UFA - 1
      Logo de Sharks de San Jose
      5 280 000 $5 280 000 $
      DD
      M-NTC
      UFA - 4
      Logo de Sharks de San Jose
      2 250 000 $2 250 000 $
      G
      M-NTC
      UFA - 2
      Logo de Sharks de San Jose
      796 667 $796 667 $
      DG/DD
      UFA - 1
      Logo de Sharks de San Jose
      10 000 000 $10 000 000 $
      DD
      NMC
      UFA - 6
      Logo de Sharks de San Jose
      2 175 000 $2 175 000 $
      G
      UFA - 2
      Logo de Sharks de San Jose
      7 000 000 $7 000 000 $
      DG/DD
      NMC
      UFA - 5
      Logo de Lightning de Tampa Bay
      850 000 $850 000 $
      DD
      RFA - 2
      Laissés de côtéListe des blessés (IR)Liste des blessés à long terme (LTIR)
      Logo de Sharks de San Jose
      2 250 000 $2 250 000 $
      DG/DD
      UFA - 3
      Logo de Sharks de San Jose
      750 000 $750 000 $
      AG, AD
      RFA - 1

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      13 sept. 2021 à 14 h 33
      #26
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      sensonfire
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      Quoting: exo2769
      Beecher is a meh prospect. His ceiling is a #3C.


      Beecher was a 1st round pick recently.


      I'm just using the parameters set by Kevin Kurz.


      I don't know of any top prospects on the Bruins that either play centre or that could replace Merkley or Burns as a defenceman.


      Do you?
      13 sept. 2021 à 14 h 35
      #27
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      sensonfire
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      Quoting: CMcAvoy73
      With retention the boston deal might be close. I still think it’s a bit much for hertl.

      The vegas deal is bonkers.


      Any Hertl trade with Vegas is bonkers.
      13 sept. 2021 à 14 h 38
      #28
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      sensonfire
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      Quoting: CrossFireX33
      I think all three teams would either need salary coming back or retention


      I would assume that as well.


      Although Kevin Kurz never said anything about retention or bringing back salary in his latest piece.
      13 sept. 2021 à 14 h 52
      #29
      Mac1010
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      Quoting: CMcAvoy73
      Notice i didn’t say he projects as a 1C or 2C. Ceiling vs projection are two very different things.


      not that different. If you think their ceiling is a certain level you should hopefully project him to be there. Thats what teams draft for anyways.
      13 sept. 2021 à 14 h 54
      #30
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      sensonfire
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      Quoting: Klara
      Downgrade Krebs to Brisson, and definitely need to add to that Boston deal, Beecher isn't close to the other two.


      Kevin Kurz said that San Jose's price for Hertl is twofold...



      1. A 1st round pick


      2a. A top prospect that can play centre

      Or

      2b. A top prospect that could replace Merkley or Burns.



      Do you know of anybody on the Bruins besides Beecher that might fit either of those two descriptions?
      13 sept. 2021 à 14 h 54
      #31
      Patient Sharks Fan
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      Moot. Reported recently by Friedman that sharks intend to build around Hertl. A trade is extremely unlikely sorry to say
      sensonfire a aimé ceci.
      13 sept. 2021 à 14 h 59
      #32
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      sensonfire
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      Quoting: lilfimpen
      Moot. Reported recently by Friedman that sharks intend to build around Hertl. A trade is extremely unlikely sorry to say


      I'm guessing that means Hertl will sign an extension with the Sharks, right?
      13 sept. 2021 à 15 h 0
      #33
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      Quoting: sensonfire
      Kevin Kurz said that San Jose's price for Hertl is twofold...



      1. A 1st round pick


      2a. A top prospect that can play centre

      Or

      2b. A top prospect that could replace Merkley or Burns.



      Do you know of anybody on the Bruins besides Beecher that might fit either of those two descriptions?


      no one, which is precisely why I don't see Hertl going to Boston unless Don Sweeney goes all in and trades 2 1sts, they don't have the assets to acquire any big names through trades.
      sensonfire et exo2769 a aimé ceci.
      13 sept. 2021 à 15 h 1
      #34
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      Modifié 13 sept. 2021 à 15 h 11
      Quoting: sensonfire
      I'm guessing that means Hertl will sign an extension with the Sharks, right?


      There’s been a lot of talk about San Jose’s Tomas Hertl, headed into his final season before unrestricted free agency. That intensified when the centre told Czech-based iDNES.cz, “I wonder if San Jose will want to re-sign me, and if I’ll want to stay there. … I’ll start the season and see how it turns out.” I’d love to see the incoming-call log on Sharks GM Doug Wilson’s phone, but word is he’s told other teams that it is San Jose’s desire to make this work, and that message will be delivered once Hertl arrives.

      Around the TDL last year Wilson also said Hertl is a culture driver that the team wants to build around. I'd says it's very likely he stays with the Sharks
      13 sept. 2021 à 15 h 7
      #35
      Banni
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      Quoting: mm1010
      not that different. If you think their ceiling is a certain level you should hopefully project him to be there. Thats what teams draft for anyways.


      It’s incredibly different. Let’s go back to the lottery analogy. Buy a 20 dollar scratcher, and the projected return is probably $15 or something like. That ceiling is likely millions.
      13 sept. 2021 à 15 h 12
      #36
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      sensonfire
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      Quoting: lilfimpen
      There’s been a lot of talk about San Jose’s Tomas Hertl, headed into his final season before unrestricted free agency. That intensified when the centre told Czech-based iDNES.cz, “I wonder if San Jose will want to re-sign me, and if I’ll want to stay there. … I’ll start the season and see how it turns out.” I’d love to see the incoming-call log on Sharks GM Doug Wilson’s phone, but word is he’s told other teams that it is San Jose’s desire to make this work, and that message will be delivered once Hertl arrives.

      Around the TDL last year Wilson also said Hertl is a culture driver that the team wants to build around. I'd says it's very likely he stays with the Sharks


      We'll see what happens then.
      13 sept. 2021 à 15 h 14
      #37
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      Quoting: sensonfire
      We'll see what happens then.


      We will!
      13 sept. 2021 à 15 h 23
      #38
      exo2769
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      Modifié 13 sept. 2021 à 15 h 32
      Quoting: sensonfire
      Beecher was a 1st round pick recently.
      I'm just using the parameters set by Kevin Kurz.
      I don't know of any top prospects on the Bruins that either play centre or that could replace Merkley or Burns as a defenceman.
      Do you?


      There's a bunch that goes into this. To directly answer your question...I think BOS center depth within their system is pretty weak overall. They win a ton in the NHL so I don't feel like that's a slight. But somehow someone will take it that way. It's why they're near the bottom in farm system rankings. Studnicka is their best Center prospect imo and then Beecher. Beecher really isn't bad prospect at all. I stand by my ceiling of a #3C and that's not nothing. The #3C role is very important. It's just not what you're looking for in a return for Hertl. Beecher IMO does a lot of the intangibles. Big Guy that has good awareness and puts himself in good positions. He can't score, but #3Cs aren't scorers. He's never been a PPG player at any level of competition...basically ever. If Elite Prospects doesn't cover the league, it's probably not worth covering.

      https://www.eliteprospects.com/player/373899/john-beecher

      Let's compare Beecher to Brisson. Ironically, Both within this post being traded. Ironically, Both play for Michigan. MOST ironically, Brisson is likely the exact specific kid that replaces Beecher as Michigan's #2 Center. ​Matty Beniers the #1 Center. THAT'S how deep Michigan is as a team, but that's a different point entirely. Brisson and Bordelaeu were great together and I think they'll win out the #2 line. (Also, Bordelaeu is a SJS prospect...) So that leaves Beecher as the #3C for his college team with two younger centers in front of him. If your SJS...you want as many players with that high ceiling as possible.

      If SJS need to target BOS...then defense is where I'd go, but I honestly don't know much about Mason Lohrei to say whether he's worth it or not. I just like to watch Big Ten Hockey so I see UM play alot.
      sensonfire a aimé ceci.
      13 sept. 2021 à 15 h 35
      #39
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      sensonfire
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      Quoting: exo2769
      There's a bunch that goes into this. To directly answer your question...I think BOS center depth within their system is pretty weak overall. They win a ton in the NHL so I don't feel like that's a slight. But somehow someone will take it that way. It's why they're near the bottom in farm system rankings. Studnicka is their best Center prospect imo and then Beecher. Beecher really isn't bad prospect at all. I stand by my ceiling of a #3C and that's not nothing. The #3C role is very important. It's just not what you're looking for in a return for Hertl. Beecher IMO does a lot of the intangibles. Big Guy that has good awareness and puts himself in good positions. He can't score, but #3Cs aren't scorers. He's never been a PPG player at any level of competition...basically ever. If Elite Prospects doesn't cover the league, it's probably not worth covering.

      https://www.eliteprospects.com/player/373899/john-beecher

      Let's compare Beecher to Brisson. Ironically, Both within this post being traded. Ironically, Both play for Michigan. MOST ironically, Brisson is likely the exact specific kid that replaces Beecher as Michigan's #2 Center. ​Matty Beniers the #1 Center. THAT'S how deep Michigan is as a team, but that's a different point entirely. Brisson and Bordelaeu were great together and I think they'll win out the #2 line. (Also, Bordelaeu is a SJS prospect...) So that leaves Beecher as the #3C for his college team with two younger centers in front of him. If your SJS...you want as many players with that high ceiling as possible.

      Defense is where I'd go if I were SJS, but I honestly don't know much about Mason Lohrei to say whether he's worth it or not. I just like to watch Big Ten Hockey so I see UM play alot.


      According to this source, Studnicka's position at the NHL level is RW.


      https://www.stanleycupofchowder.com/2021/8/17/22624869/lysell-studnicka-who-cracks-bruins-roster
      exo2769 a aimé ceci.
      13 sept. 2021 à 15 h 40
      #40
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      Quoting: sensonfire
      Kevin Kurz never said anything about retention in his latest piece.


      Although it's safe to assume it will be a requirement for either Boston, Tampa or Vegas.


      No I don’t think he did. I don’t mind the sharks retaining unless they are already taking on money like many acgms that have them taking on nearly $10 mil. Maybe add a 3rd or 4th if there’s retention in any deal? It’s not much
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      13 sept. 2021 à 15 h 47
      #41
      exo2769
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      Quoting: sensonfire
      According to this source, Studnicka's position at the NHL level is RW.


      https://www.stanleycupofchowder.com/2021/8/17/22624869/lysell-studnicka-who-cracks-bruins-roster


      I thought he was a center in Providence and Niagra, but maybe I'm just not up to speed on where BOS thinks he'll fit in. Thanks for the articlecheers !
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      13 sept. 2021 à 16 h 5
      #42
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      Quoting: sensonfire
      Eichel has a massive contract and a broken neck basically that hasn't been fixed yet.

      Hertl has neither of those issues.


      A broken neck? LOL
      13 sept. 2021 à 16 h 14
      #43
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      sensonfire
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      Quoting: Dnik10
      A broken neck? LOL


      He needs neck surgery and he can't seem to agree with the Sabres on which one to get.


      So, his neck is crooked instead of broken.

      It doesn't really disprove my point of differentiating Eichel from Hertl.
      13 sept. 2021 à 16 h 24
      #44
      Mac1010
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      Quoting: CMcAvoy73
      It’s incredibly different. Let’s go back to the lottery analogy. Buy a 20 dollar scratcher, and the projected return is probably $15 or something like. That ceiling is likely millions.


      yes but you are not drafting scratch cards. you are drafting players that your scouts have watched for years. yes a 7th rounder probably closer to your scenario but a 1st 2nd rounder that they have been developing. if its still a scratch card lottery hopes you need new scouts.

      a player at this point the project and ceiling are probably very similar.
      13 sept. 2021 à 16 h 28
      #45
      Banni
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      Quoting: mm1010
      yes but you are not drafting scratch cards. you are drafting players that your scouts have watched for years. yes a 7th rounder probably closer to your scenario but a 1st 2nd rounder that they have been developing. if its still a scratch card lottery hopes you need new scouts.

      a player at this point the project and ceiling are probably very similar.


      All first rounders have high ceilings. It’s why they’re first rounders. The majority of them don’t work out. They’re the perfect illustration of ceiling and projection being wildly different.
      13 sept. 2021 à 19 h 7
      #46
      Mac1010
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      Quoting: CMcAvoy73
      All first rounders have high ceilings. It’s why they’re first rounders. The majority of them don’t work out. They’re the perfect illustration of ceiling and projection being wildly different.


      you know on average over 50% of 1st rounders make and play meaningful roles in the nhl right....
      If thats the scratch tickets your buying that have a 50% chance of hitting a good win let me know where you are buying.

      Yes they all dont end up on the 1st line or 2nd but many find their roles in the lower lines.... which is exactly my point on saying a guy has a high ceiling in above a 3rd liner..... probably safe to assume he makes the nhl at some point.
      13 sept. 2021 à 19 h 10
      #47
      Banni
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      Quoting: mm1010
      you know on average over 50% of 1st rounders make and play meaningful roles in the nhl right....
      If thats the scratch tickets your buying that have a 50% chance of hitting a good win let me know where you are buying.

      Yes they all dont end up on the 1st line or 2nd but many find their roles in the lower lines.... which is exactly my point on saying a guy has a high ceiling in above a 3rd liner..... probably safe to assume he makes the nhl at some point.


      Every guy drafted in the first round has a high ceiling. In the bottom half of the round, the odds aren’t great of the player being a legit NHLer.
       
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