Once again, Winnipeg knows how hard and expensive it is to find and acquire a young 2C.

If you're not offering a young 2C upgrade for Winnipeg, which this offer doesn't contain, the Jets don't look at it.

Plus the Jets aren't trading away defensemen after finally assembling a solid D group.

You're seriously saying the Jets wouldn't even look at this offer because it doesn't have a young 2C? With Karlsson, there are 3 possible 2Cs on the team (Karlsson, Copp, Stastny), two of which are 28 or younger (the same age as Scheifele and Lowry). I understand looking for a great young 2C, but why does it matter if they're young when this team is already stacked with prime-aged center depth and built to compete now?

Also, I get the real-life argument with trading away defensemen after already assembling their group, but this is an ACGM, it's not the focus. Whitecloud and Hague are young defensemen that were amazing last year, they'd honestly be the best third pairing in the league in this configuration. All had for two defensemen that are searching for a bounceback in Schmidt and Beaulieu.

I honestly don't understand why this trade offer wouldn't at least command the attention of the Jets, because it makes the team better in both the short and long run.

Okay we can ignore the defenseman, but adding a great bottom pair doesn't make the Jets better as you're saying. The Jets needed top 4 help which they have now, giving that away to beef up the bottom pair doesn't make the Jets better.

Also, how does trading Dubois for Karlsson make the Jets better now or in the future? In the present at best it's a lateral move for Winnipeg, so kind of pointless. However, 3 years from now it absolutely makes the Jets worse. Scheifele would be 31 and looking for a new contract, while Karlsson would also be 31 and probably dropping off in production. If Scheifele leaves then the Jets are left with one 31 year old 2C. While Dubois would be 26 and just entering his prime and could possibly be a 1C replacement for Scheifele.

So, that is why Winnipeg wouldn't look at it as it doesn't make then better short term and hurts them significantly long term.

I'll note that they're only on the third pairing because of the quality veterans in front of them, as they're both still young and could use some time. Personally, I'd say they're ready for the top 4, but it makes more sense to let them grow into it as the year goes on and eventually swap with the second pairing. My point is that this move makes their entire defense top 4 quality with Hague and Whitecloud's combined potential.

As for Karlsson being a lateral move right now, I would disagree. Karlsson is a more established center and he's better both offensively and defensively than Dubois right now. While the two may be going in different trajectories (though Dubois hasn't really been improving recently), I'd say Karlsson should be a surefire 2C for at least the next four years. If you think Karlsson isn't the right move, Chandler Stephenson could work instead. He's got similar production, he's one year younger, and his contract is half the price and length. I wouldn't be so sure Scheifele would leave either, because Marchessault, Wheeler, Dillon, and DeMelo are all expiring in this situation, which opens up plenty of space to pay him.

One last thing, I wouldn't be so certain that Dubois is a true center when he hits his prime. He's always struggled with faceoffs, his defensive responsibility still needs some work, and he's played a lot of wing in Winnipeg. Columbus has been starved for center depth ever since Johansen left, and my theory is that he played so much center in Columbus not so much because he's good there, but because he was needed there. I would hope he reaches his full potential, but he needs to bounce back next season for me to really believe in his promise.

As for why this is good in both the short and long term, Marchessault, Karlsson, Hague, and Whitecloud all make the team better now, while Hague and Whitecloud also make them better later.

Wait, I thought you didn't want to include the defensemen? If we include them it's worse for Winnipeg. The most valuable defenseman above is Schmidt and the most valuable forward is Dubois, so the Jets are losing on both counts there.

So, if we look at what the Jets are getting we have Marchessault a 31 year old winger that just serves to get in the way of Perfetti and Lucius, so he brings nothing that Winnipeg needs. Karlsson who gets a lot of points just from being the only decent center Vegas has (using your Dubois reasoning here) and even if you thing he's slightly better, he isn't enough of an improvement that he will make a difference or make up for being 5 years older. Stephenson is a 3C at best and Lowry is better, so that would make him a 4C.
Whitecloud is 24 and while an RD just looks to be a capable bottom pairing guy, I can't see him progressing to a top 4 guy at his age. Hague is a run of the mill, bottom pairing LD and isn't worth picking up to block Samberg and Heinola. So, he also adds no value for Winnipeg.

While the Jets are giving up Dubois, who cost them Laine and was brought in to solve the Jets long term problems as a 1bC or 2C, Schmidt who Vegas got rid of and that the Jets have been chasing for 2 years. Beaulieu who's worthless and Smith who is a question mark.

So, when you look at it like that from a team needs and future plans perspective you can see why Winnipeg wouldn't consider it. They make a short term lateral move at center and block 2 high end forward prospects with a winger they don't need. Plus, take an established top 4 defenseman and replace him with two bottom pairing guys, one of which (Hague) blocks two prospects that either are better already in Heinola's case or likely will be better in Samberg's case.

There's just no incentive for Winnipeg to give up a young center that they've been trying to find since 2018.

First, I never said I didn't want to include the defensemen, I only said that I don't see an issue with trading recently acquired players in an ACGM. I'm not Chevy, so I don't have any qualms with moving players he acquired for his plan in favor of my plan. I would say Hague is the most valuable defenseman above, closely followed by Schmidt, but Whitecloud isn't too far behind. Beaulieau, as you said, is worthless and really just cap fodder in this trade. I'll agree that the most valuable forward is Dubois, but Marchessault and Karlsson are both close, and definitely better players right now in my opinion.

Aren't Perfetti and Lucius centers? I don't see how Marchessault gets in their way as he primarily plays the wing (and is a legitimately useful top 6 forward). I never said Dubois got a lot of points from being the only decent center on his team, I'm saying that the fact he was playing center that high in the lineup when he wasn't ready for that kind of responsibility was a problem, and may have hindered his development. I also don't see how Karlsson being the best center on the Knights is somehow a knock against the credibility of his point totals? His best season was before Pacioretty and Stone, and he's played between 18:40 and 18:52 ATOI for all four of his seasons with the Knights, so I don't see how things like ice time or good linemates (common among top centers) have given him a lot of his points. I strongly believe that Karlsson is better than Dubois right now. Points, defense, discipline, faceoffs. He's better than Dubois in all of these categories, which are highly valued in NHL centers. And Stephenson is in no way a 3C at best, he's been getting better and better each season and was in the top 100 for points in 20-21. Hague is no run-of-the-mill defenseman. He's only 22, selected 34th overall in 2017 (4th in his draft class in d-man scoring btw), and he's been a great two-way defenseman so far in his career, really good defensively in fact. Oh, he's also 6'6. He's only a month older than Samberg and has accumulated 28 points in 90 games to Samberg's 0 of each. I'm not saying Samberg is a bad prospect, I'm saying Hague is better and has proven himself at the NHL level. Heinola should be better than Hague once he develops (he's a top prospect, after all), but I think there's a bigger problem on your hands if your best defensive prospect isn't proving that he should be in the lineup over what you call a "run of the mill, bottom pairing LD". You're seriously undervaluing other team's assets.

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I see that you're focusing on the future a lot in your responses, and as a Red Wings fan, I totally understand. What I see in Winnipeg, though, is a great team that's oh so close to the Stanley Cup. The core is hitting its prime. However, Stastny and Wheeler are getting older. Copp may be leaving. Teams dream of having this kind of roster, full of great players playing at the peak of their game, backstopped by a Vezina winner and led by a core that's hungry for a cup. My instinct is to push for it, even if some futures must be expended to get there. Blake Wheeler was traded by the Bruins to the Thrashers in 2011, in the middle of his third season in the league. That June, he saw the Bruins lift the Stanley Cup. All Boston got for Wheeler was Rich Peverley, a 29-year-old second-line center. He only played three more seasons in the league, while Wheeler still plays to this day. The Bruins don't care, because they won hockey's biggest prize. That's what it's all about. GMs can focus on the future all they want, but sometimes they have to look down at their team and realize that they have a real chance to win it all. That's when you go for it, and while it isn't a guarantee it'll work, it's always worth a try.


Anyways, now's the time that we both realize that this is all about an ACGM and that it doesn't really matter.
That's enough essays for me tonight lol

That was a good long essay and a good read. Lol.

Anyways I could agree with you on going for it, if this trade actually did that for the Jets. But there isn't enough improvement there for the Jets to give up Dubois for IMO. Basically the Jets would be making all these player moves and ending up in the same place, so they're better off just sticking with what they've got. Like I said if it isn't a young center that is a significant upgrade, not just a slight upgrade, on Dubois, it's not worth it for the Jets.