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(MTL/ARI) - 2022 conditional 1st round pick and 2024 2nd round pick for Dvorak

Who won the trade?
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5 sept. 2021 à 10 h 10
#76
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Meh, I don't buy into the Dvorak hype that came out of nowhere this summer. It'll be interesting how he does in a tougher Atlantic division. I say Yotes win this one
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5 sept. 2021 à 10 h 13
#77
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Quoting: draft_em_sign_em_trade_em
Like the year the Leafs loaded up on draft picks ?

Still waiting to see if any are useful.


The leafs are ok...

But ya you're probably right.
5 sept. 2021 à 10 h 15
#78
Go leafs go
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Quoting: exo2769
Yotes are likely staying in AZ, but moving to Tempe next to ASU. A.) They've already placed a bid on the dirt, but B.) it's just a genius move for a budget franchise to team up with a state institution that's growing like crazy. Besides, Glendale is impossible to get to for 41 games a year. I would have gone to twice as many games if they were in Tempe.

https://www.tsn.ca/coyotes-submit-proposal-for-two-land-parcels-in-tempe-1.1689208
https://www.novusasu.com/plan/


Ya, it's just a joke.

@EsoYeezus69 and @Devil1122 usually just refer to Arizona as Houston.
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5 sept. 2021 à 10 h 16
#79
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Quoting: Saskleaf
Meh I think they are slight overpayments. Both teams were absolutely desperate for the players they were getting.

Kuemper isn't in the starting lineup of most mock team Canada's.


You’re just proving my point even more.
5 sept. 2021 à 10 h 17
#80
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Quoting: sensonfire
If you had any clue about this site, the Capfriendly staff member who uploaded this trade did not include Carolina as a voting option.


Nor did he/she make this into a three-way trade with KK going to Carolina for a 1st and a 3rd.



The reason why the Habs are losing this trade is because the Habs overpaid on Dvorak.

Simple as that.


Capfriendly said the same thing about Galchenyuk for Domi & Domi for Anderson. There was no overpayment here. Keep trying, you're almost there sport!
5 sept. 2021 à 10 h 20
#81
sensonfire
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Quoting: jpsnow13
A bit missleading since the pick has top 10 protection. With CAR and MTL both improved for next season, chances it will end up in the 15th to 20th range.



Come on man. This deal just doesn't happen if KK offer sheet is matched. It was made in the same hour, with the compensation received from Carolina and in the objective to replace KK...

From MTL point of view, it's KK + 1st + 2nd for Dvorak +3rd.


I said, "MTL traded what could be a 1st in the top half of the 1st round."

The key word I'm using is "could".

Top half of the first round is 16th overall or higher.

Nothing misleading about it.



From MTL point of view, it's a 2022 conditional first and a 2024 second for Dvorak.

From ARI point of view, it's a 2022 conditional first and a 2024 second for Dvorak.

Nothing else to it.



The good-hearted Capfriendly staff member could have chose to make this into a three-way trade with KK at 6.1 million going to Carolina for a 1st and a 3rd.

He could have also included Carolina as a voting option.

He/she did neither.

Cause it's got nothing to do with it.
5 sept. 2021 à 10 h 24
#82
sensonfire
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Quoting: KSIxSKULLS
Capfriendly said the same thing about Galchenyuk for Domi & Domi for Anderson. There was no overpayment here. Keep trying, you're almost there sport!


Capfriendly said the same thing because those two trades involving Domi were completely separate from each other.

There is an overpayment here and it is Montreal overpaying for Dvorak.


Keep trying.

You're almost here.
5 sept. 2021 à 10 h 35
#83
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Habs might have overpaid for Dvorak, although on most capfriendly teams where the trade had been proposed, commenters insisted that trading two picks for Dvorak was way too low and that other picks and prospects would need to be added as well. I chose fair deal mostly based on the cost certainty and age that Dvorak provides. It seems he'll provide slightly more offense and slightly poorer defence than Danault as a 2nd line centre, at a reasonable slightly less cost for 4 more years. Definitely not a Habs steal, but not a terrible loss.

Worst possible outcome for the Habs would be ending the season with the 11th overall draft position (and subsequently losing it) while the Canes win the cup. Worst possible outcome for Arizona is if Canes & Habs play each other in the ECF, and the 2024 2nd happens to be around 55th overall or lower too.
5 sept. 2021 à 10 h 42
#84
Hire Dusty Imoo
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Quoting: sensonfire
If you had any clue about this site, the Capfriendly staff member who uploaded this trade did not include Carolina as a voting option.


Nor did he/she make this into a three-way trade with KK going to Carolina for a 1st and a 3rd.



The reason why the Habs are losing this trade is because the Habs overpaid on Dvorak.

Simple as that.


I think you undervalue yotes players, it not at all an overpayment. The best arizona can draft is 11th
5 sept. 2021 à 10 h 52
#85
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Quoting: Kotkaniemi15
You’re just proving my point even more.


He's usually the 3rd string behind Flower and Price.

Which makes sense considering the seasons those 2 had, combined with their experience.
5 sept. 2021 à 10 h 52
#86
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Quoting: McSchleep
I think you undervalue yotes players, it not at all an overpayment. The best arizona can draft is 11th


I'm valuing Dvorak using a previous post of mine from a few days ago as a benchmark of sorts.

https://www.capfriendly.com/armchair-gm/team/2756717



The reaction I got from that post was that it was not an ideal scenario for the Habs and that the Habs should not even go there.

This trade involves the Habs paying more for Dvorak than what is seen in that post.

We'll agree to disagree on whether the actual trade is an overpayment on Dvorak.




The best Arizona can draft with the 1st round pick they received from Montreal is 2nd overall.

That is if Montreal and Carolina both miss the playoffs and both win the draft lottery.

I do, however, acknowledge that it is the absolute worst case scenario for Montreal in this trade.
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5 sept. 2021 à 11 h 19
#87
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Quoting: Kotkaniemi15
Sure, good trade I guess.

In a vacuum this is great for the habs. Dvorak is a great player, and is an upgrade on Danault offensively. The cost isn’t bad at all.

Now the issue is the fact that they lost Kotkaniemi to make this move, which makes it brutal for Montréal.


Really good take on this. I personally think KK has a ton of potential. What I saw of him in playoffs he could be fantastic. But the system in Montreal wasn’t right for him. Hope he breaks out in Carolina where he has some other good Finnish players to mentor him.
Quoting: drewjenkins
Alex Kerfoot has better career statistics than Dvorak (both are in their mid 20's)

Alex Kerfoot has far better career even-strength statistics than Dvorak.

Alex Kerfoot had more even strength points than Dvorak last season.

Alex Kerfoot costs $1,000,000 less than Dvorak and gets no PP time.

Alex Kerfoot is as good or better than Dvorak in the defensive end.

Most people call Alex Kerfoot a bad #3C and a salary cap-dump.

Dvorak has never hit 40 points or 20 goals in five NHL seasons.


Best post I’ve seen on here in months. ACGMs would have been rejecting Kerfoot and a 1st for Dvorak.
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5 sept. 2021 à 11 h 48
#88
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Modifié 5 sept. 2021 à 11 h 55
Habs lose: Kotkaniemi & 2nd 2024
Habs gain: Dvorak & 3rd 2022 & $1.5m & Great contract
5 sept. 2021 à 11 h 57
#89
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Quoting: MountRoyal
Habs might have overpaid for Dvorak, although on most capfriendly teams where the trade had been proposed, commenters insisted that trading two picks for Dvorak was way too low and that other picks and prospects would need to be added as well. I chose fair deal mostly based on the cost certainty and age that Dvorak provides. It seems he'll provide slightly more offense and slightly poorer defence than Danault as a 2nd line centre, at a reasonable slightly less cost for 4 more years. Definitely not a Habs steal, but not a terrible loss.

Worst possible outcome for the Habs would be ending the season with the 11th overall draft position (and subsequently losing it) while the Canes win the cup. Worst possible outcome for Arizona is if Canes & Habs play each other in the ECF, and the 2024 2nd happens to be around 55th overall or lower too.


Canes win the Cup?

lol

They added Freddie ( I have never got out of the 1st Round ) Anderson as their goalie.

Where's the zamboni driver goalie ? Ayers is a better chance than Freddie.
5 sept. 2021 à 11 h 59
#90
sensonfire
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Quoting: mr_z
Habs lose: Kotkaniemi & 2nd 2024
Habs gain: Dvorak & 3rd 2022


Habs lose: Kotkaniemi, Montreal's 2024 2nd, and the higher of their two 1st round picks unless one of them is in the Top 10.

Habs gain: Dvorak, Carolina's 2022 3rd and the lower of their two 1st round picks unless one of them is in the Top 10.



That's assuming the Kotkaniemi offer-sheet is a part of this trade with Arizona.

It's not, however.
5 sept. 2021 à 12 h 3
#91
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Quoting: draft_em_sign_em_trade_em
Canes win the Cup?

lol

They added Freddie ( I have never got out of the 1st Round ) Anderson as their goalie.

Where's the zamboni driver goalie ? Ayers is a better chance than Freddie.


Andersen was the goalie who brought the Ducks to the conference finals in 2015. So he very much has been out of the first round, but I know you Leafs fans only pay attention to your own team.
5 sept. 2021 à 12 h 8
#92
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Quoting: Kotkaniemi15
Andersen was the goalie who brought the Ducks to the conference finals in 2015. So he very much has been out of the first round, but I know you Leafs fans only pay attention to your own team.


I fully anticipate Freddy having a bit of a bounce back this season. Simply because he is not a leaf anymore. If he was still in Toronto this would not occur.
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5 sept. 2021 à 12 h 30
#93
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Quoting: Kotkaniemi15
Andersen was the goalie who brought the Ducks to the conference finals in 2015. So he very much has been out of the first round, but I know you Leafs fans only pay attention to your own team.


7 years ago.

Guess what also happen back than;

Mike Condon won 21 games for the Habs.
Galchy was a 30 goal scorer.
Subban was a Norris Trophy contender.

Yesterday's successes mean nothing to today.
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5 sept. 2021 à 12 h 48
#94
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I am in so much pain rn
5 sept. 2021 à 13 h 7
#95
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Quoting: KSIxSKULLS
I know it will never happen, but could you imagine if KK refuses to sign anything but his QO and the Hurricanes refuse, only for KK to resign with Montreal in UFA?


I was already thinking about something like this. If KK has a disappointing season and the Hurricanes are not sure if they want to give him at least $6.1m, I wonder if Montreal comes back around and swindles him from Carolina either with yheir own OS or getting him as a UFA. Will be interesting to see.
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5 sept. 2021 à 13 h 19
#96
sensonfire
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Modifié 5 sept. 2021 à 13 h 27
Quoting: WallStreet83
I was already thinking about something like this. If KK has a disappointing season and the Hurricanes are not sure if they want to give him at least $6.1m, I wonder if Montreal comes back around and swindles him from Carolina either with yheir own OS or getting him as a UFA. Will be interesting to see.


If that happened, the Canes would offer-sheet Suzuki.

But then the Habs would offer-sheet Necas.

And then the Canes offer-sheet Caufield in the off-season after that.



I'm not sure that we've seen the end of the offer-sheet war between the Habs and the Canes.

If I'm Marc Bergevin, I'd reach out to Tom Dundon and ask if he wants a truce.
5 sept. 2021 à 13 h 40
#97
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The Coyotes got most likely a late lottery pick (somewhere around #12,13) and a second round pick

For Montreal they massively overpaid
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5 sept. 2021 à 13 h 53
#98
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Quoting: draft_em_sign_em_trade_em
7 years ago.

Guess what also happen back than;

Mike Condon won 21 games for the Habs.
Galchy was a 30 goal scorer.
Subban was a Norris Trophy contender.

Yesterday's successes mean nothing to today.


I never said he is or isn’t going to be good. I’m just pointing out that what you said about him is false.
5 sept. 2021 à 13 h 54
#99
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Quoting: Ben_Trade_market
The Coyotes got most likely a late lottery pick (somewhere around #12,13) and a second round pick

For Montreal they massively overpaid


If Montréal is picking 12th or 13th Bergevin doesn’t care, because he’s not going to be around to make any picks.
5 sept. 2021 à 13 h 56
#100
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Quoting: WallStreet83
I was already thinking about something like this. If KK has a disappointing season and the Hurricanes are not sure if they want to give him at least $6.1m, I wonder if Montreal comes back around and swindles him from Carolina either with yheir own OS or getting him as a UFA. Will be interesting to see.


Unfortunately, due in major part to our incompetent coach, I doubt KK would want to come back here. If he became a UFA, I’d guess the mint bros would reunite in Ottawa.
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