Waddell got the better player just look at the advanced stats! KK is a possession monster compared to Dvorak.

And when exactly did tinordi/mccarron/juulsen/scherbak have value? It’s not his fault our drafting fkn sucks. This whole debacle is on timmins. We hit on a draft pick once every decade

We could have moved 1st round picks instead of drafting to address obvious needs. Instead of waiting to trade a 1st for Dvorak with our backs to a wall years after the fact.

campabee

Truth is matching didn't make any sense and I think you actually do agree with this. Kotkaniemi didn't really want to return. Him returning would have been an awkward situation for everyone. He wasn't happy with his development, wasn't happy with his ice time, wasn't happy being scratched, wasn't happy with his QoL...etc etc etc etc. Management wasn't happy with his outspokeness, coaches weren't happy with his work ethic/performance, fans weren't happy with his accepting of the OS. etc etc etc.

The relationship deteriorated to the point of the player not being really welcome back. By the GM. By the coach. By some fans. By probably some of his line mates too.

Regardless of whether you think that is MB's fault or Ducharmes fault, whatever, that doesn't change the fact that what's done is done. There was no realistic returning to this team for KK.

We could have moved 1st round picks instead of drafting to address obvious needs. Instead of waiting to trade a 1st for Dvorak with our backs to a wall years after the fact.

I could accept letting KK walk IF that is what he wanted. I could accept letting him walk if he had been given a legitimate chance to prove himself in the top 6 and he failed. I could even accept letting KK walk for signing the OS IF we had brought in someone who was a clear cut top 6C like Monahan or Eichel or even Hertl. Is Dvorak going to be able to play top line minutes if Suzuki regressed or gets injured? That is my concern, also I would have liked for MB to say something to at least alleviate some of these concerns or questions. I just feel like this is a step backwards or at the very minimum sideways and not a step forward.

I had made a case a while ago, although I doubt I was the first to mention it, for the Habs to straight up just trade their 1st round picks every year. Keep all the 2-7 picks, those will hit now and then but trade those 1sts every year for quality players right now. If the Habs philosophy is to be hard on prospects and their drafting results tend to suck, why bother? Nowadays young players who are good make 5-10M in there contracts following their ELC's so "getting cheap players on ELC's" rarely works for the Habs anyways so why bother.

Disclaimer: Not saying this is how I would do it, just how I think the Habs current management should do it going forward.

I could accept letting KK walk IF that is what he wanted. I could accept letting him walk if he had been given a legitimate chance to prove himself in the top 6 and he failed. I could even accept letting KK walk for signing the OS IF we had brought in someone who was a clear cut top 6C like Monahan or Eichel or even Hertl. Is Dvorak going to be able to play top line minutes if Suzuki regressed or gets injured? That is my concern, also I would have liked for MB to say something to at least alleviate some of these concerns or questions. I just feel like this is a step backwards or at the very minimum sideways and not a step forward.

I respect your opinion, and its easier to understand when it's a level headed one.

I won't argue it, KK was terribly mismanaged in MTL to the point where he only regressed since he was a rookie and he played like a bottom 6 forward whobalready needed waivers at 20 years old. They really botched KK's development and it's inexcusable I agree. So I understand the frustration, but I already got that out of my system last season.

I was ready to see what KK could do with the opportunity as 2C in MTL this year, however the offersheet changed everything... and given the circumstances I think Bergevin did OK. I don't think your assumptions about KK with the QO or long term extension for a lesser amount would have came true.

1. KK signed the offersheet, he's already proven he will take the money when he can get it so he's not going to take the discount.
2. I don't think either side wants to deal with arbitration, that would be a terrible outcome and KK might even pursue another offersheet if it came to that.

On Dvoraks production with Hall and Kessel:
- No one produces with ARZ.
- Hall is no longer a top player.
- Kessel is definitely washed up.

I would argue Hoffman and Gallagher would be upgrades right now.

So I guess I just disagree with the title "This Team is Not Playoff Bound thanks MB". It implies that because KK was replaced with Dvorak that MTL will miss playoffs when the reality is if they are going to miss playoffs it would have happened either way.

Who would you rather have?
5G 15A 20P $6.1M x 1.
Notable Linemates Anderson and Drouin/Byron
Or
17G 14A 31P $4.45M x 4.
Notable Linemates Fischer and Crouse[/The one 4 years younger

All signs point to KK being so disgruntled with the way he was treated here that a mended relationship was all but impossible. So even If MB wanted to have him back, KK probably wouldn't have performed well anyway.

This OS made adding a legitimate top 2 center impossible without overpaying like crazy. Dvorak was just good enough to potentially still be able to break out but not good enough to cost an arm and a leg. I really think you're underestimating this player. He won't be a 75 point guy but he'll be 50 point player in MTL all while costing the team 4.4M a year only. Maybe KK becomes a 75 point player but he surely wouldn't have done it in MTL even with the playing time.

I had made a case a while ago, although I doubt I was the first to mention it, for the Habs to straight up just trade their 1st round picks every year. Keep all the 2-7 picks, those will hit now and then but trade those 1sts every year for quality players right now. If the Habs philosophy is to be hard on prospects and their drafting results tend to suck, why bother? Nowadays young players who are good make 5-10M in there contracts following their ELC's so "getting cheap players on ELC's" rarely works for the Habs anyways so why bother.

Disclaimer: Not saying this is how I would do it, just how I think the Habs current management should do it going forward.

I still think we need another C, perhaps Dvorak will surprise me like Domi did but I still don't see this team as being better than the one that went to the SCF this year.

Not the worst idea.
At least trading a 1st you have a good idea of what you are getting. If you can leverage a 1st into a 2nd and a prospect, you get 2 chances to hit on a player, which might be a better strategy for an organization that has poor draft history.

I think a big part of our issues is development however. The system in place seems to stifle talent rather than nurture and add to it.
We can't simply be drafting that many bad players when they are projected to be 1st rounders by others as well. It's not like we are drafting consensus 2nd rounders with our 1sts.
We take a sniper and try to turn them into a 2-way pker, give them 3rd and 4th line duties, and expect them to convert their offensive game to an NHL level while making no mistakes or getting no opportunity to learn from them because they get scratched or sent down instead.
Sure, you want that offensive sniper to backcheck and work hard, but incorporate that alongside the skills that made you draft them in the first place. Use your later picks for guys you can develop into those other players.

Wow so much negative on here. Dvorak is an upgrade to kotkaniemi. I like this.

Neither was the team with KK 6.1M....... That's not the other scenario here. You're comparing apples to oranges. There was no way the team this year was going to match last years team with KK back at 6.1M or with Dvorak.

The comparison is this years team with KK or Dvorak. Considering the circumstances and cap hits, Habs are better with Dvorak right now. 3 years from now? Maybe not. We'll have to wait and see.

Edit: Im all for adding another center but frankly Im really curious to see what Poehling does at camp. I think he'll get the #3 spot and do wonders this year with quality linemates like Gally/Anderson and Drouin/Hoffman.

Right now sure, but KK would’ve been better.. to grow with the young core centering Suzuki, Caufield, Romanov etc….