That feels very steep for Dvorak.

Hockey men across the world can all agree, this is a hockey trade moment.

The contract is the biggest piece, Friedman was saying the other day it will be a good prospect and a first, to get a top 6 C for 4 more years under 5 million dollars would be a great aqusition in itself. Does seem steep but I think a lot of teams will be interested.

cap hit, extra year, similar production I don't think it's a bad one for one deal. Flames fans will feel they are getting burnt a bit on it but I think it's a much better fit than contiually putting Monahan on a line without play drivers and expecting a different result.

Think these deals are very realistic

That is indeed a hockey trade

Yeah you might be right. Demand definitely would be high, so it probably requires a bit of an overpay to have the winning offer. I think it’s unlikely this offer gets beat by the market, but you also probably cant go too much lower.

Sure, but is Dvorak a legit top 6 center yet? He's never hit more than 38 points in a season... He was on pace for 45 last year over 82 games -- but even then, is that really worth a top prospect and 1st? Especially when CGY isn't guaranteed to make the playoffs? If that's the price, CGY should look elsewhere.

Perhaps not, but with Monahan's production falling off and the need to pull him off a line with Gaudreau to make the top line better would Monahan necisarily be considered a top 6 guy without Johnny?

Just a rough comparison, which may not always play out the way it looks on paper but compare 23 year old Lindholm the year before he was traded to Calgary to 24 year old Dvorak in this situation:
Over 82 Games
Lindholm: 16G 28A 44P
Dvorak: 26G 21A 47P

Another big point of this for me is Dvorak producing at 5 on 5 where Monahan has struggled.

Regarding the playoffs I think every team in the Pacific should go for it other than maybe Anaheim, there is no point in hanging onto another pick that ends up 12 - 16 just to do this whole process over again. Locking up a long term C with a ton of room to grow for under 4.5 million feels a lot like the Lindholm deal.

there’s no universe dvorak is worth two 1sts come on now. This site is really overvaluing this guy. I like him but is he even better than backlund? Backlund still produces more offensively while providing elite defense. By this logic we should be getting 3 or 4 1sts for Monahan because saying dvorak is even half as good as Mony is debatable

Fair points.

I just don't think I would trade Zary for Dvorak. He could be a big piece for the future top 6 in CGY (could be very soon) -- so I would look to swap Zary for another prospect. I'm not as worried about the 1st, the the 1st and a prospect like Zary just seems like a lot. How would you rank Zary, Emilio Pettersen, and Pelletier? I would lean towards trading one of them over Zary, but you would have more insight on that than I do.

Plenty of reasons that he would be worth that. Flames making this trade are clearly pushing to win, that pick should be bottom third of the draft which is a crap shoot, this trade may have been better suited with MEP and a 1st but I think a Boston, NYR, Carolina, San Jose, Canadiens all make better pitches. Monahan can't drive a line, he is repeatedly thrown into the lineup with guys that he is expected to drive and it doesn't work, good middle 6 C but to say he's twice as much as Dvorak is craziness.

I can see what you're saying for sure, I think that I would rank those three:

Pelletier (highest floor)
Zary
MEP (highest ceiling)

Zary is a good safe prospect, I initially had the trade with MEP in it but figured it would be outbid by other teams interested.

Monahan scored at a 26 goal and 56 point pace in 19-20 in a down year. From 2014-19 (excludes rookie and pandemic years) he AVERAGED 31 goals and 68 points per 82 games. He also has 7 20+ goal seasons actually under his belt, and 3 30+ goal seasons. Compare that to Dvorak, who has never actually hit the 20 goal or 40 point mark, and whose career high pace is 25 goals and 45 points. Does he have upside? Sure, but I doubt he beats Monahan’s average. Deciding to overpay because he might breakout like Lindholm is stupid, he hasn’t done that so you evaluate his value based on what he has done, and then hope for the best. Thinking he might break out on a better team is the reason you would consider bringing him in, but it doesn’t raise his value. Monahan also played this year injured, and with a literal deadweight on one of his wings (Ritchie, Simon, Bennett, Leivo, etc. were all mediocre at best, not one of them deserved to be higher than the 4th line). This year he’ll come back healthy, and with 2 of Tkachuk, Gaudreau, Coleman, and Mangiapane on his wings, all of whom are playdrivers that should be able to create some offensive chemistry with him. I would expect that a bounce back to his typical 30-35-65 form is very likely, and if it does then he’ll be better than Dvorak would be, without sacrificing a 1st and our best C prospect. I wouldn’t hate this scenario if we were giving up like, two 2nds and MEP, or a 1st and Zavgorodniy, because I do like Marchessault and Dvorak, but there’s no universe where we should be giving up Zary in a Dvorak trade, let alone Zary and another 1st.

March for Mon is actually a good trade.

The Dvork trade, is steep top say the least. I think Pellieter (or however you spell it) and the first would get it done. I think you only give up Zary for Eichel.

I definitely see what you are saying and I don't think you are wrong, I am just less bullish on Monahan than you are, I think that his career has kind of peaked and he is closer to a 40 - 50 point guy than the regular 60 - 70 that people in Calgary want to see. Hip injuries linger, it feels like he's had surgery in nearly every off season, I do like how his physical game has imporved but it definitely hasn't worked for keeping him healthy. I think he is essentially St Louis Blues era Paul Stastny that shoots more.

That's fair, a few people saying that in this thread for sure but I think that Pelletier could be the better prospect. If you are looking at a downgrad in the prospect Emilio Petersen or Zavgorodny would be the step down.

Is Dvorak really a C or a winger who can play C?

How good is Zary. I've seen people pencilling him in as 2c of the future

I think Dvorak has a more complete game than Monahan, plays a better C position as well. Monahan would be a perfect winger with a guy up the middle that can support and drive play, him and Dvorak may be similar in that way.

Zary is a good safe prospect, projects middle 6, don't know if he has that extra something to solidify him as a top 6 guy. I think Flames fans get really excited about him because of their absolute lack of high end talent coming up the pipeline. He's like socks for Christmas, it's fine, you need them and you appretiacte them but when you neighbour three hours up the road got a Dylan Holloway for Christmas, my Zary socks aren't that great.

no they are not. marchessault has a no trade clause…why leave Vegas in low taxes state and competitive team for Calgary? Not happening

Let’s not act like the difference is as drastic as you’d like to make to. The net salary difference is less than a league min salary. 39.1 vs 47.7. That along with international workers status, every road game is a taxable event in the location where the game is played and having just even the slightest amount of investment knowledge put more money in your pocket than just not paying state tax. That’s a weak excuse for dumb people, if you stopped at the NTC you would have had a better argument.