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Not Your Everyday ACGM Very Long Read

Créé par: BallPuckFellow10
Équipe: 2021-22 Maple Leafs de Toronto
Date de création initiale: 10 août 2021
Publié: 10 août 2021
Mode - plafond salarial: Basique
Description
**If you are going to comment something, I suggest you read this first**

After posting numerous teams with different line combinations and trades, this is the lineup I think would give the Leafs the best chance of success. Firstly I want to be clear on something. The Leafs are not going into the season with the current roster (unless someone is hurt and put on LTIR when the season starts) as they would only be able to have 21 players. It is simply not an option. At least one player needs to be traded for the Leafs to have 22 skaters on the roster. And for people who think we can just bury someone like Engvall, no... that doesn't give us enough cap relief. We would still be in the position of having 21 skaters on the roster + the chance of someone actually claiming him on waivers (bad asset management). If he was the only player traded, it still wouldn't be enough for us to have 22 skaters on the roster. Having Mikheyev on the line with Kämpf and Simmonds and having Brooks ($725K) and Biega ($750K) as healthy scratches would still put the team around $144K over the cap limit. So in conclusion, moving Engvall alone won't be enough.

If we explore moving Mikheyev's contract, things would open up more. We could have a full lineup with Engvall on the line with Kämpf and Simmonds while having Gabriel ($750K) and Liljegren ($863K) as healthy scratches while having $111K left in cap space. This is something that I feel is realistic for the Leafs to do. In this scenario the team would have a 22 man roster, something that Tampa and Washington probably are going to have to work with this year basing on what their teams look like today. It is not ideal, but more doable than having 21 players.

In my mind, the best thing to do would be to move both Engvall and Mikheyev. They are both good bottom 6 options that are solid defensively. However, people must understand that they are replaceable. We have Brooks in the system that has been waiting for a chance to be a full-time player. He has been great every time he has been given a chance. They signed Semyonov from the KHL. A defensive specialist forward that likely was brought in to play the Kämpf role. At the time of signing him, they had no idea that Kämpf would be available, so now they don't have to force him into that role and can instead ease him in to the North American game by letting him play some games with the Marlies. The main problems with Mikheyev and Engvall are their cap hits. $1.645M and $1.25M respectively. These aren't bad contracts at all. It is just that in the situation that the Leafs are in, they can be replaced by someone on an ever cheaper contract. People who think there isn't a market for these two players are insane. There are definitely some teams out there that need to add a proven bottom 6 forward that can kill penalties. I think 11 forwards are guaranteed to start on opening night. The 12th spot is up for grabs. Amadio, Brooks, Gabriel and Anderson are in my mind fighting for it. This spot would be to play on the shut down line with Kämpf and Simmonds. I can't see Nick Robertson playing that role. Ritchie and Bunting aren't defensive forwards either while I have just made an argument for Kerfoot playing on the top 6 if you keep reading. This means that Robertson probably starts the season with the Marlies and waits for his chance while not being in the press box. If the Leafs don't sign anyone else, I think Brooks gets that chance on opening night. He played a similar role with Trevor Moore and Mason Marchment on the Marlies when they won the Calder Cup. He is someone that has been in the program for a while and is deserving of that chance. There is one player that I think the Leafs really should at least offer a PTO or a league min deal. That is Mark Jankowski. Last year he played on Pittsburgh's shut down line and was one of their main penalty killers. Pittsburgh's penalty kill wasn't the best, but at least he has the experience of doing it. He is 6'4 and skates really well which matches the description of both Engvall and Mikheyev. He can take face-offs (career 48.9%) which is useful if Kämpf get kicked out from a draw. I think it is a no-risk move to at least offer him an invitation to camp to see what he can do.

The other pieces the Leafs could move would be Dermott ($1.5M), Kerfoot ($3.5M), and Morgan Rielly ($5M). Firstly, I don't think there is any chance of the Leafs moving Rielly this offseason. People including myself would say that it probably would be smart asset management to do so and acquire some picks and prospects instead of letting him walk for free next summer. With the contracts that defenseman have signed this offseason, it isn't far fetched to think Rielly is going to ask for a contract in the same ballpark as Werenski ($9.58M), Jones ($9.5M) Nurse ($9.25M), Hamilton ($9M), Makar ($9M) and Heiskanen ($8.45M). Although the Leafs have Kessel's retention coming of the books and the salary cap increasing by $1M, they can't afford resigning Rielly north of $8.5M. It is just not realistic or good business based on the Leafs roster with Matthews, Tavares, Marner and Nylander's contracts. One of them would have to be traded, something I can't see that happening with this current management group. I think Rielly stays this season and walks as a free agent. He will be a rental this year if we can't find a way to extend him.

Dermott is someone I only can see being moved if they get someone that is much better to play in his place. I currently don't see anyone available on the market or via trade at around the same dollar figure that the Leafs could acquire. he is going to start the season on the third pair with Sandin. I think Dermott gets a lot of unwarranted hate from our fanbase. He is really good 3rd pairing defenseman, and people who think he should score points because he is a smaller guy are clueless. He is solid defensively and can move the puck really well. I think in ideal world, a partner for him would be closer to a defenseman in the mold of Bogosian, rather than Sandin. However, I think they have both earned the chance to start the season together and are what we got. The Leafs have a bigger shutdown defenseman like Dahlström signed as insurance. Liljegren who theoretically could take Sandin's or Biega if he seems like the best fit out of camp. I think they go for that big solid defenseman type at the deadline or look at someone like Gudbranson now that has more experience than Dahlström. Ideally if they are looking at someone like Gudbranson, they should give him a PTO to see if he is a fit at all before signing him.

This leaves us with Kerfoot. I don't think the Leafs currently have a player that divides the fan base as much as he does. Some people think he is an overrated and overpaid forward that doesn't contribute enough relative to what he is paid. I can understand that somewhat. Others like myself believe that Kerfoot has been shoehorned into playing a shutdown center role that he clearly is not. He scored 40+ points back to back seasons with Colorado playing an offensive role. He had above 60% offensive zone starts in both those seasons and he was clearly used as a secondary scoring option behind MacKinnon, Rantanen and Landeskog at the time. He was playing on the first power play and had 17 points his first season and 16 his second. I think it is time for the Leafs to use him the same way he was used in Colorado. I don't think the Leafs move him. In my mind, Kämpf was brought in to play the role they thought Kerfoot was going to play when they acquired him. Robertson could theoretically slot in here and take his spot, but I think you go with a more proven player in the situation that the Leafs are in.

Line Combinations:
Everyone knows what the ''big 4'' can do. They will have great regular seasons again, but that isn't what they are judged on anymore. We have to wait until the post season, again, to see if they finally can put it together. I expect these lines to play around 16-20 minutes each night depending on who is hot. Kerfoot is going to put up at least the same numbers he had in Colorado (around 15 goals and 40 points). It isn't unlikely to think he even can hit 50 points if that line really clicks together. He has showed that he can produce in a top 6 role, now he will get the chance to do that with the best line mates he has ever had. Bunting is obviously a wild card with a very limited sample size. He played with Schmaltz and Garland last year and scored 10 goals in 21 games. While its very unrealistic to think he is going to score 40 goals in an 82 game season, predicting that he will score between 15-20 goals with 30-35 points playing with Matthews and Marner shouldn't be considered unrealistic at all. Those will be the best players he ever has played with. The way he plays the game by being a constant pest to the opponents while winning puck battles around the net will complement Matthews and Marner well. Nick Ritchie could also play on this line, but I think Bunting gets the chance to start here and a move can be made if it doesn't workout.

Before I get a bunch of comments saying that Spezza isn't a 3C or Kämpf should play there instead of him, read this first. With the way the Leafs are set up, I don't believe we have a designated third line. We have two bottom six lines that will have different objectives. The line with Spezza will be more offensive minded while the line with Kämpf will be defensive minded. My belief is that the shutdown line with Kämpf, Simmonds and whoever is the 12th forward will stick together no matter what. The other lines with more offensive objectives can be more fluid. I can see these line be shifted around, but the principle of having one shutdown line will stay. I am going to give you some examples of other line combinations they could go with:

Ritchie-Matthews-Marner...........Kerfoot-Matthews-Marner..........Ritchie-Matthews-Marner...........Nylander-Matthews-Kase..........Bunting-Matthews-Marner.
Kerfoot-Tavares-Nylander..........Ritchie-Tavares-Nylander............Nylander-Tavares-Kase...............Bunting-Tavares-Marner............Nylander-Tavares-Kase.
Bunting-Spezza-Kase...................Bunting-Spezza-Kase...................Bunting-Kerfoot-Spezza..............Ritchie-Kerfoot-Spezza...............Ritchie-Kerfoot-Spezza.

So for people saying Spezza can't play on the third line he is too old etc. I say this. He can play all his minutes 5v5. He doesn't need to play any special teams at all. All his points are almost coming 5v5 with him getting 7 points on the power play his first year and only 5 last year. With the players we have added, there are other who can take his spot on the 2nd power play unit and give him some rest to be fresh 5v5. He can still go out there and win defensive zone draws on both special teams as he is so dominant if the face-off circle, but he doesn't need to do anything else. This is like a tailor-made role for him in my opinion. in his two seasons he has averaged around 11 minutes a game while around two minutes of those have been on special teams. Convert those minutes to extra 5v5 shifts and we will have guy who plays around 11 minutes strictly 5v5. If Spezza is tired Matthews and Tavares can pick up the slack with an extra shift without any problem. Hopefully I have explained this well enough to not have to answer any questions about this in the comments.

Kämpf will be a key defensive contributor on this roster. He will likely be the first guy out to kill penalties while also having the ability to win important face-offs defensively. His line will likely be matched against one of the other teams most offensive lines with the task of stopping them. I already made a case for why Brooks or someone like Jankowski would fit on such a line. However, can Simmonds do it? The answer is yes. Early on in his career he got Selke votes before he started to become an elite power forward that scored 30 goals. If you don't believe it, go back and look! Simmonds isn't that offensive player anymore and people should stop expect him being that. He can still score the odd goal here and there while being net front on the PP and be a physical presence. However, his hockey brain is very underrated from a defensive standpoint. Taking a look from a statistical standpoint, more specifically JFresh's amazing player cards, his even strength defensive impact on preventing scoring chances against has had him near the 75th percentile of NHL players in 2 of the last 3 years. That are some very impressive defensive numbers from someone that isn't spoken about in that way. He had some very bad defensive numbers during the year when he played on the Devils that finished last in their division and Buffalo. In other words, I give him a break from not performing on those teams. The eye test also proves he can do this. He is good at receiving pucks at the half wall and making sure the puck gets out rather than turning it over to a pinching defenseman. I have confidence Simmonds can play this role.

We already know what we get from the Leafs top 4 defenseman. An excellent group that was tied 7th in goals against per game in the whole league last season. No changes are needed here. The third pair however, is the biggest question mark on the team right now. Both Sandin and Dermott are really good. We have seen them together for a limited time when Bogosian got hurt late last year. They played well together and could keep building on that. They can work much like how Rielly and Brodie work together with both of them being excellent 4-way skaters that don't need to physical in order to retrieve the puck. Sandin has that offensive potential while Dermott is solid defensively. They will have to defend more proactively by being excellent at angling to force dump-ins and being aggressive with stick checks to limit the time the opponents forwards has with the puck. This is something that Brodie is excellent at that hopefully they can learn as well. I can see this d-pair being exposed on the cycle down low which obviously isn't ideal. However, almost every 3rd pair in the league is going to have some weakness that opponents can explore. In an ideal world, I think they get someone better than Biega and Dahlström to step in if it doesn't work out. I already mentioned Gudbranson on a PTO, maybe someone like Josh Brown from Ottawa could be an option or someone like Nick Jensen or Trevor van Riemsdyk from Washington if they decide to move some players for more cap flexibility. There other options out there as well. The elephant in the room is Timothy Liljegren. He obviously deserves a chance to make this team and to even be on the roster if he is the 7th d-man. The current cap situation doesn't allow the Leafs to do that unless they decide to go with a 22 roster. Having him play heavy AHL minutes until someone gets hurt isn't the worst idea as he is waiver exempt and can be moved up and down freely.

The Leafs have an excellent tandem that should enable the Leafs to be comfortable with whoever is in net that night. Both goalies will most likely fall down a little bit from their insane numbers last year, but that shouldn't be a problem. I can't see them all suddenly become AHL level goaltenders either. League average is fair to project and expect which should be good enough for this team.
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10 août 2021 à 14 h 49
#1
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They will have a 21 man roster, they've done it like the past 3 years.

But I appreciate the amount of work you put into this, wow. Took me a while to read.
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10 août 2021 à 14 h 55
#2
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Quoting: Saskleaf
They will have a 21 man roster, they've done it like the past 3 years.

But I appreciate the amount of work you put into this, wow. Took me a while to read.


I'm not sure they will. They're very limited in waiver exempt contracts at the moment. Sandin, Robertson and Lil are the notables. I think OP has made a solid argument for moving mikey and Engvall out.
Only time will tell I suppose.
10 août 2021 à 15 h 2
#3
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Quoting: BigDaddyOvech
I'm not sure they will. They're very limited in waiver exempt contracts at the moment. Sandin, Robertson and Lil are the notables. I think OP has made a solid argument for moving mikey and Engvall out.
Only time will tell I suppose.


Fair point, but how's that different from the last few years.
10 août 2021 à 15 h 2
#4
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Quoting: Saskleaf
They will have a 21 man roster, they've done it like the past 3 years.

But I appreciate the amount of work you put into this, wow. Took me a while to read.


Firstly, thank you for acknowledging that. I really appreciate the kind words.
Secondly, I disagree with your point. I don't think you can get away a full 82 game season with a roster of 21 players. It is just too risky. Especially on back to backs on the road or on road trips far away. I understand that the NHL likely postpones a game if it involves a player or staff member testing positive for COVID. However, if multiple players are hurt on the road they can be caught in a situation where someone that is called up from the minors who won't be able to arrive in time for the game or just arrive in time but have no chance to practice with line mates which isn't really a recipe for success. Having a bigger roster is such a peace of mind that I think shouldn't be underestimated.
10 août 2021 à 15 h 14
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Props for the amount of work put in on this 👍

Don’t forget about Josh Ho-Sang I have a feeling he is going to surprise a lot of people at training camp.
10 août 2021 à 15 h 25
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Quoting: Tj_gm
Props for the amount of work put in on this 👍

Don’t forget about Josh Ho-Sang I have a feeling he is going to surprise a lot of people at training camp.


Thanks buddy, I appreciate that!!!
Good point about Ho-Sang. However, I can see him play for the Marlies and get a chance if there is an injury. He could possibly replace someone like Kase. But time will tell with him!
10 août 2021 à 15 h 28
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Quoting: BallPuckFellow10
Thanks buddy, I appreciate that!!!
Good point about Ho-Sang. However, I can see him play for the Marlies and get a chance if there is an injury. He could possibly replace someone like Kase. But time will tell with him!


I concur, It certainly worked for Galchenyuk last year
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10 août 2021 à 15 h 49
#8
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Quoting: Saskleaf
Fair point, but how's that different from the last few years.


OP answers it below that it's a full schedule, but I also just don't think the organization can take the same approach and risk losing too many decent bottom 6 players to waiver claims like they did last season.
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10 août 2021 à 16 h 0
#9
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Switch Ritchie and Kerfoot. Either that or make the line Mikheyev-Kampf-Kase. All the 3 guys are defensive responsible and will make a strong defensive line. Ritchie takes too many penalties to be on the defensive line which defeats its purpose.
10 août 2021 à 16 h 6
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Modifié 10 août 2021 à 16 h 16
Quoting: MauriceArthur15
Switch Ritchie and Kerfoot. Either that or make the line Mikheyev-Kampf-Kase. All the 3 guys are defensive responsible and will make a strong defensive line. Ritchie takes too many penalties to be on the defensive line which defeats its purpose.


I'm sorry, but you clearly haven't read what I wrote, if you do read it you will understand why the lines are like this or even see the other line suggestions I made. At no point have I said or put Nick Ritchie on a defensive line. I don't know where you are getting that idea from. Keeping Mikheyev is also not really an option if they are going to have more than 21 skaters on this roster. Please take a read and come back with any ideas or thoughts that you have.

Edit: Kase has never been a defensive player in his career. He has always been used as someone that is creating secondary offense. Look at his zone starts. His career number for zone starts in the offensive zone is 59.8%. He has never been trusted with defensive responsibilities or played on the penalty kill. The idea of him fitting in on a strong defensive line is incorrect and not factual at all. This would basically be a Kerfoot 2.0 where we shoehorn someone into a role that they are not supposed to play.
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10 août 2021 à 16 h 25
#11
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Quoting: BallPuckFellow10
I'm sorry, but you clearly haven't read what I wrote, if you do read it you will understand why the lines are like this or even see the other line suggestions I made. At no point have I said or put Nick Ritchie on a defensive line. I don't know where you are getting that idea from. Keeping Mikheyev is also not really an option if they are going to have more than 21 skaters on this roster. Please take a read and come back with any ideas or thoughts that you have.


I’m not here to argue with you im giving you a suggestion. It’s evident they way Keefe has his lines set up he wants the 3rd line to be a checking line. He wants to be able to deploy them against other teams best line, hence why I said a line of Mikheyev-Kampf-Kase. I don’t think Mikheyev will have as bad of a shooting season as he did this last year. It might just be a a regression towards his average as he was scoring at a decently high rate before his injury.

To your point about Engvall, we can bury his contract in the minors and it would only cost us 125k, meaning we save 1.125 million. Mikheyev I don’t think is the odd man out, if anyone it’s Dermott. They’re just waiting to see if Liljegren is ready in NHL pre-season and Menell can be a 7th dman before trading Dermott. Dermott would carry great value especially for the price of defenceman this past season and we can easily get picks back to replenish for the deadline to be buyers again.

Just by doing the 2 moves I suggested (sending Engvall down to the Minors and trading Dermott) you gain 2.6 million which gives the leafs about 1 million in cap space and would create a more effective line up. Now having line of:

Bunting-Matthews-Marner
Ritchie-Tavares-Nylander
Kerfoot/Mikheyev-Kampf-Kase
Mikheyev/Kerfoot-Brooks-Spezza

Rielly-Brodie
Muzzin-Holl/Liljegren
Sandin-Liljegren/Holl

Campbell
Mrazek

Scratches: Simmonds, Gabriel, Menell
10 août 2021 à 16 h 29
#12
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Good read, appreciate the effort.

We differ on:
What do to with Rielly- IMO it will be a huge mistake to use him as there own rental. If they can’t get a deal done they need to move him. They cannot just let him walk for nothing. Yes replacing him will be difficult but I have faith in Muzzin having lead this team in 5v5 scoring (Dman) the past two years and the willingness of the coaching staff to put Sandin in the top powerplay: going with a top 4 Muzzin Holl Sandin Brodie Dermott Liljegren. It’s also possible whatever assets you get from Rielly you could flip for another LD. Lots of moving parts no doubt but I will die on the hill, letting him walk for nothing would be a terrible mistake.

For me the optimal lineup is: (if Rielly is not moved)
Nylander Matthews Kase
Ritchie Tavares Marner
Bunting Kerfoot Spezza
Engvall Kampf Simmonds

Rielly Brodie
Muzzin Liljegren
Sandin Holl

Brooks
Menell (he is my X factor, I think he will surprise a lot at camp) reminds me of Coghlan in Vegas.

Engvall to SEA
Dermott to NYI



I wish Simmonds wasn’t signed so early, that 900k could have been useful. I’d rather see Joey Anderson on that 4th line.

Thx for posting
10 août 2021 à 16 h 58
#13
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Quoting: MauriceArthur15
I’m not here to argue with you im giving you a suggestion. It’s evident they way Keefe has his lines set up he wants the 3rd line to be a checking line. He wants to be able to deploy them against other teams best line, hence why I said a line of Mikheyev-Kampf-Kase. I don’t think Mikheyev will have as bad of a shooting season as he did this last year. It might just be a a regression towards his average as he was scoring at a decently high rate before his injury.

To your point about Engvall, we can bury his contract in the minors and it would only cost us 125k, meaning we save 1.125 million. Mikheyev I don’t think is the odd man out, if anyone it’s Dermott. They’re just waiting to see if Liljegren is ready in NHL pre-season and Menell can be a 7th dman before trading Dermott. Dermott would carry great value especially for the price of defenceman this past season and we can easily get picks back to replenish for the deadline to be buyers again.

Just by doing the 2 moves I suggested (sending Engvall down to the Minors and trading Dermott) you gain 2.6 million which gives the leafs about 1 million in cap space and would create a more effective line up. Now having line of:

Bunting-Matthews-Marner
Ritchie-Tavares-Nylander
Kerfoot/Mikheyev-Kampf-Kase
Mikheyev/Kerfoot-Brooks-Spezza

Rielly-Brodie
Muzzin-Holl/Liljegren
Sandin-Liljegren/Holl

Campbell
Mrazek

Scratches: Simmonds, Gabriel, Menell


Your suggested lineup is not cap compliant ($383K above cap ceiling). Go and test it out for yourself. If you are so adamant about calling it a 3rd line, the role at Kämpf's line before you role the Spezza. Like it honestly doesn't matter who is considered the 3rd or 4th line just like I explained in the description. I think we as fans tend to focus on that way too much. The point I have made is not that Mikheyev is bad. He will absolutely rebound shooting % wise. The issue is his cap hit. There are other player in the league that can do what he does for less money. Kase hasn't really ever played a checking line type of role, so that would be like Kerfoot 2.0. It is not the reason we signed him. He will play more offensively than defensively. He has never had defensive responsibility in his career and to suggest that he is going to play on such a line with the Leafs would be a misinformed opinion. You can trade Dermott but only if they get someone that is better in return. Liljegren can't play shutdown minutes with Muzzin, that just won't happen realistically. Holl and Muzzin have proven that they are that pair and won't be split up. He has also looked very average to bad playing without Muzzin. You have some good ideas, but they unfortunately don't work under the cap.
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10 août 2021 à 17 h 5
#14
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Quoting: MatthewsFan
Good read, appreciate the effort.

We differ on:
What do to with Rielly- IMO it will be a huge mistake to use him as there own rental. If they can’t get a deal done they need to move him. They cannot just let him walk for nothing. Yes replacing him will be difficult but I have faith in Muzzin having lead this team in 5v5 scoring (Dman) the past two years and the willingness of the coaching staff to put Sandin in the top powerplay: going with a top 4 Muzzin Holl Sandin Brodie Dermott Liljegren. It’s also possible whatever assets you get from Rielly you could flip for another LD. Lots of moving parts no doubt but I will die on the hill, letting him walk for nothing would be a terrible mistake.

For me the optimal lineup is: (if Rielly is not moved)
Nylander Matthews Kase
Ritchie Tavares Marner
Bunting Kerfoot Spezza
Engvall Kampf Simmonds

Rielly Brodie
Muzzin Liljegren
Sandin Holl

Brooks
Menell (he is my X factor, I think he will surprise a lot at camp) reminds me of Coghlan in Vegas.

Engvall to SEA
Dermott to NYI



I wish Simmonds wasn’t signed so early, that 900k could have been useful. I’d rather see Joey Anderson on that 4th line.

Thx for posting


Firstly, thanks for the support. I appreciate that!
I completely agree with what you have to say about the Rielly situation. However, it is such a huge gamble but would be perfect if it works out. I just can't currently see them doing it. I would be positively surprised if they did move Rielly and had Sandin basically take over his minutes. Little bit like Makar and Barrie in Colorado. I think you have made some very good points. In the case of moving Rielly I think it would be too much of a risk of inserting Liljegren in the lineup. He would be good as a 7th defenseman in that situation. I'd rather us acquire a really solid defense player to play with Dermott for security. That player could play with Brodie in the last few minutes of games to potentially shut the other team down. I don't hate your lineup at all. Could very much be what the team looks like. I just think the optimal route to go would to be to move both Engvall and Mikheyev so that we could have a full 23 man roster.
Thanks for your response, really good discussion.
10 août 2021 à 18 h 57
#15
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Quoting: BallPuckFellow10
Firstly, thank you for acknowledging that. I really appreciate the kind words.
Secondly, I disagree with your point. I don't think you can get away a full 82 game season with a roster of 21 players. It is just too risky. Especially on back to backs on the road or on road trips far away. I understand that the NHL likely postpones a game if it involves a player or staff member testing positive for COVID. However, if multiple players are hurt on the road they can be caught in a situation where someone that is called up from the minors who won't be able to arrive in time for the game or just arrive in time but have no chance to practice with line mates which isn't really a recipe for success. Having a bigger roster is such a peace of mind that I think shouldn't be underestimated.


Didn't they do it (21 man roster) for the most part in 2019-20 too though? Could be wrong.

Covid is an interesting thing that I kind of forgot about though (lol). Without the taxi squads I can see what you mean.

I agree one or both of Mikheyev and Engvall will be traded.
10 août 2021 à 21 h 57
#16
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Modifié 11 août 2021 à 1 h 59
Quoting: Saskleaf
Didn't they do it (21 man roster) for the most part in 2019-20 too though? Could be wrong.

Covid is an interesting thing that I kind of forgot about though (lol). Without the taxi squads I can see what you mean.

I agree one or both of Mikheyev and Engvall will be traded.


I am pretty sure that both Hyman and Dermott were injured for the first bit of that season and then both Mitch and JT got hurt as well as Andreas Johnson. I think they managed to maneuver around that by always having someone LTIR that season. Mikheyev was also hurt that year. I remember him getting hurt right around Christmas.
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10 août 2021 à 21 h 57
#17
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Quoting: BallPuckFellow10
Your suggested lineup is not cap compliant ($383K above cap ceiling). Go and test it out for yourself. If you are so adamant about calling it a 3rd line, the role at Kämpf's line before you role the Spezza. Like it honestly doesn't matter who is considered the 3rd or 4th line just like I explained in the description. I think we as fans tend to focus on that way too much. The point I have made is not that Mikheyev is bad. He will absolutely rebound shooting % wise. The issue is his cap hit. There are other player in the league that can do what he does for less money. Kase hasn't really ever played a checking line type of role, so that would be like Kerfoot 2.0. It is not the reason we signed him. He will play more offensively than defensively. He has never had defensive responsibility in his career and to suggest that he is going to play on such a line with the Leafs would be a misinformed opinion. You can trade Dermott but only if they get someone that is better in return. Liljegren can't play shutdown minutes with Muzzin, that just won't happen realistically. Holl and Muzzin have proven that they are that pair and won't be split up. He has also looked very average to bad playing without Muzzin. You have some good ideas, but they unfortunately don't work under the cap.


It is important as the 3rd line is the defensive line. Also FYI Kase drives play and is a two way forward with strong goal scoring upside. There was a reason he warranted a 1st from Boston and more. Kase played that role in those Anahiem teams that went to the Conference finals and etc. It’s evident the 3rd line needs a play driver, Kerfoot wasn’t that. Kerfoot is a complimentary player. He will go in there dig out the puck and make the pass needed like Glach did for JT and Willy, or like Hyman did for Matthews and Marner.

Also 383k over the cap easily can send player down or 2 create space. He’ll be sent down on days you don’t want to play Liljegren as you can because he’s waiver exempt. Also to your point about Liljegren I don’t think you watch him enough. If you want you can go search up the quote where Holl admitted that Liljegren helped his defensive game in the Marlies. The only reason Liljegren hasn’t gotten a chance is because of the approach the tram took last season. He was NHL ready last year and now he’s out on more size. Liljegren is great at defending the rush, puck recovering and breaking it out. His decision making is sometimes indecisive hence why he took longer to develop. He’ll adapt to NHL speed especially with Muzzin as his partner and be able to hold his own on the pairing. Holl strives when he’s comfortable with his partner. Having a Sandin-Holl combo would be extremely beneficial as Holl is great at defending the rush. Plus it would be a 3rd pairing. Holl would easily demolish 3rd pairing completion and would compliment Sandin really nicely.

Lastly your point about the 3rd line. You create point that Spezza can play whenever but you neglect that he’s doesn’t play on b2b games. Spezza is 4th line player that you want driving that line. Having Spezza on that 4th line gives the Leafs a lot more flexibility and allows the 4th line to log up some mins as Brooks and Spezza a great offensive players. Having a 4th line that can keep you hemmed in the zone is what Toronto needs. The 3rd line will be deployed to eat up defensive mins so it’s frees the 1st and 2nd lines.

You have great ideas but you’re overthinking it a lot. A lot of great work but think simpler as that’s the approach this season and it’s evident by the moves made. They were more lateral moves and moves that gave more depth and flexibility. Honestly it’s might be a bad opinion compared to how a lot of us are feeling but this Leafs team is better that last years. Especially with the amount of depth in the organization and now Sandin and Liljegren making the jump. Dermott is the odd man out and teams will pay a good draft capital to get a 24yr old d man with RFA rights at the end of his contract.
10 août 2021 à 22 h 58
#18
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Quoting: MauriceArthur15
It is important as the 3rd line is the defensive line. Also FYI Kase drives play and is a two way forward with strong goal scoring upside. There was a reason he warranted a 1st from Boston and more. Kase played that role in those Anahiem teams that went to the Conference finals and etc. It’s evident the 3rd line needs a play driver, Kerfoot wasn’t that. Kerfoot is a complimentary player. He will go in there dig out the puck and make the pass needed like Glach did for JT and Willy, or like Hyman did for Matthews and Marner.

Also 383k over the cap easily can send player down or 2 create space. He’ll be sent down on days you don’t want to play Liljegren as you can because he’s waiver exempt. Also to your point about Liljegren I don’t think you watch him enough. If you want you can go search up the quote where Holl admitted that Liljegren helped his defensive game in the Marlies. The only reason Liljegren hasn’t gotten a chance is because of the approach the tram took last season. He was NHL ready last year and now he’s out on more size. Liljegren is great at defending the rush, puck recovering and breaking it out. His decision making is sometimes indecisive hence why he took longer to develop. He’ll adapt to NHL speed especially with Muzzin as his partner and be able to hold his own on the pairing. Holl strives when he’s comfortable with his partner. Having a Sandin-Holl combo would be extremely beneficial as Holl is great at defending the rush. Plus it would be a 3rd pairing. Holl would easily demolish 3rd pairing completion and would compliment Sandin really nicely.

Lastly your point about the 3rd line. You create point that Spezza can play whenever but you neglect that he’s doesn’t play on b2b games. Spezza is 4th line player that you want driving that line. Having Spezza on that 4th line gives the Leafs a lot more flexibility and allows the 4th line to log up some mins as Brooks and Spezza a great offensive players. Having a 4th line that can keep you hemmed in the zone is what Toronto needs. The 3rd line will be deployed to eat up defensive mins so it’s frees the 1st and 2nd lines.

You have great ideas but you’re overthinking it a lot. A lot of great work but think simpler as that’s the approach this season and it’s evident by the moves made. They were more lateral moves and moves that gave more depth and flexibility. Honestly it’s might be a bad opinion compared to how a lot of us are feeling but this Leafs team is better that last years. Especially with the amount of depth in the organization and now Sandin and Liljegren making the jump. Dermott is the odd man out and teams will pay a good draft capital to get a 24yr old d man with RFA rights at the end of his contract.


Regarding your first point, I think you still are to fixated on calling a line a name. In reality, we have two bottom six lines with different objectives. Some nights, the Kämpf led line will be the ''3rd line'' playing more minutes than the Spezza line. In other games, the Spezza line will be your so called ''3rd line''. I agree with what you are saying regarding Kase being a play driver. But look at how he has been deployed his whole career. He has never been on a defense first line that has the task of shutting down the opponents. I feel as if it is unrealistic to expect him to come to Toronto and do something he never has done. Being the play driver on a line with Spezza and Ritchie suits him perfectly.

The only two players that you can send down that are waiver exempt are Sandin and Liljegren. Everyone else has to go through waivers, something we have to be careful with. You can't just call up and send people down unless they have past waivers one time. Secondly, with a 23 man roster, Liljegren still won't be able to fit on the roster with his cap hit. He will only have the option to be called up when someone on defense other than Sandin gets hurt.

I don't disagree with you analysis of Liljegren and Holl as players, but Holl has really struggled when playing in the NHL without Muzzin. He was okay when he first started playing on the third pair with Dermott, Sandin or Marincin in 18/19, but he only really took off once they moved the d-pairs around and let him play with Muzzin he shortly got his extension after that. We have seen Holl get exposed against Columbus in the playoffs, and last season after a great start he really regressed and was notably worse than when the season started. Maybe Liljegren was ready last year but I think he would have proved the coaches wrong and got more than 2 games if he actually was. I have seen the pictures of him floating from this offseason and he has developed an NHL body and should be ready to compete this year. Maybe he forces the Leafs to trade Dermott and the Leafs could have a defensive lineup consisting of Rielly-Brodie, Muzzin-Liljegren and Sandin-Holl. Another possibility would be that the Leafs trade Rielly for assets and run with Sandin-Brodie, Muzzin-Holl and Dermott-Liljegren. It all depends on how ready Liljegren is.

I haven't said that Spezza is going to drive his line, that is why Kase and Ritchie are on it. As for b2b games, Spezza played all but two games last year. He sat out game 8 of the regular season which wasn't a b2b in order for Travis Boyd to make his debut. He then sat out a b2b game at the end of the season when the Leafs already were guaranteed a playoff spot as well as looking the lock for the number one spot of the division. The season before he missed a few games in the being due to Babcock firstly scratching him and then having him in some weird rotation with Nic Shore. He did sit a few b2b games that season. If Spezza can't play on b2b games you can easily move Brooks into that role and have Gabriel move in to the 4th line. I suggested that the Leafs should sign Jankowski, and if he isn't signed they would have Amadio as a healthy scratch option that could play on a b2b. Really simple to maneuver around.

I don't think I have been overthinking the whole situation. I think other people simply haven't been thinking enough about the lineup and what roles players are going to have. You have this fixation on a defensive third line, something you should be careful being too fixated on. Every line on a team have a different objective so calling a line a 3rd or 4th line isn't really a thing more than what order they are written on the board. Brooks-Kämpf-Simmonds could very well be the ''third line'' that comes out. Ritchie-Spezza-Kase could be the 4th line coming on the ice. In reality it doesn't mean anything. If we play against Boston for example, and we have the Matthews line going against one of their shut down lines and after the Bergeron line comes on, we would likely put Kämpf out there against them instead of the Tavares line. This doesn't make the Kämpf line the 2nd line. They are simply just being line matched. I hope you understand what I am trying to say here. I agree completely with you saying that this team is better than last year. The depth is much better IMO. If Liljegren makes the jump, I think they should trade Rielly rather than Dermott. He would give them more assets than trading Dermott. Dermott is also cost controlled at a low cap hit for one more year, something that should be taken into consideration.

Good discussion here, I appreciate your comments.
11 août 2021 à 0 h 48
#19
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Quoting: BallPuckFellow10
I am pretty sure that both Hyman and Dermott were injured for the first bit of that season and then both Mitch and JT got hurt as well as Andreas Johnson. I think they managed to maneuver around that by always having someone LTIR that season. Mikheyev was also hurt that year. I remember him getting hurt right arounds Christmas.


Right, that's what happened. Somehow they always had someone of significant salary injured. They were planning on running a 21 man roster but never needed too.
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