Forums/Armchair-GM

MAF and Jarry

Créé par: exo2769
Date de création initiale: 29 juill. 2021
Publié: 29 juill. 2021
Équipe: 2021-22 Blackhawks de Chicago
Explications
If we're going to have a real discussion about the potential of sending MAF to PIT...then we need to be honest with each other.

The Hawks got him for FREE because they have $7M in cap space available. That doesn't mean MAF stinks. He just won the Vezina.

IF MAF refuses to play for CHI and ONLY wants to be a Penguin...the Hawks would need to consider sending all $7M to PIT for a 4th or 5th round pick. They're not in existence to help out other organizations and it's not like they owe anything to Flower. BUT a 4th or 5th is better than nothing. The other option (that I wouldn't do if I were PIT) is $7M in players...that can help the Hawks. AGAIN, the Hawks are not wasting $7M in cap space. So Rust and Jarry for Flower. Nothing more. Nothing less. I'd do that. Again, the Hawks are not in existence to help our the Penguins. The reverse is true too! Just stop trading for Flower unless you truly understand that the Hawks aren't here for the benefit of PIT.

Retention
People on here are talking like retention is a desirable thing for the Hawks to do. It's not. It'd dead cap.

Tristan Jarry
PIT fans are trying to trade this guy away and his cap hit is $3.5M. You guys talk like he's horrible...except when you're trying to trade him. You're literally saying...for us he's not good enough, but for you...he'll be great. That's a load of nonsense. There wouldn't be MANY teams trying to acquire Grubauer/MAF/Khudobin OR proposing teams like "goalie options" if you guys truly thought Jarry was a good goalie. We can't have a reasonable discussion if we're not being honest with each other. You don't want Jarry OR you at least know you don't want him in the playoffs.

SO, if you want MAF specifically AND you want CHI to retain...be prepared to send Picks/Prospects.

IF you want the Hawks to spend $7M in cap space for Jarry...the guy you all want to shed...be prepared to send the 2022 1st OR at least the 2022 2nd with conditions that it becomes the 1st if you make the playoffs. I understand not wanting to send away a lottery pick.

The Hawks can use $7M in cap space. Tarasenko? Dunn? Raask? Corey Crawford? $7M can do alot.
Transactions
1.
CHI
  1. Jarry, Tristan
  2. Rust, Bryan
PIT
  1. Fleury, Marc-André
Transactions impliquant une retenue de salaire
  • Olli Määttä: 750 108 $ (18%)
ANNÉE DE REPÊCHAGERONDE 1RONDE 2RONDE 3RONDE 4RONDE 5RONDE 6RONDE 7
2022
CHI
EDM
TOR
VGK
CHI
CHI
CBJ
CHI
2023
CHI
CHI
TBL
CHI
CHI
CHI
CHI
CHI
2024
CHI
CHI
CHI
CHI
CHI
CHI
CHI
TAILLE DE LA FORMATIONPLAFOND SALARIALCAP HITEXCÉDENTS BONISESPACE SOUS LE PLAFOND SALARIAL
2181 500 000 $80 200 047 $452 439 $3 350 000 $1 299 953 $
Ailier gaucheCentreAilier droit
CHI
Kubalik, Dominik
3 700 000 $
AG, AD
RFA - 1
CHI
Toews, Jonathan
10 500 000 $
C
NMC
UFA - 2
CHI
Dach, Kirby
925 000 $
C, AD
RFA - 1
CHI
DeBrincat, Alex
6 400 000 $
AG, AD
RFA - 2
CHI
Strome, Dylan
3 000 000 $
C, AG
RFA - 1
CHI
Kane, Patrick
10 500 000 $
AD
NMC
UFA - 2
PIT
Rust, Bryan
3 500 000 $
AD, AG
UFA - 1
CHI
Borgström, Henrik
1 000 000 $
C
RFA - 2
CHI
Johnson, Tyler
5 000 000 $
AD, C
NTC
UFA - 3
CHI
Khaira, Jujhar
975 000 $
C, AG
UFA - 2
CHI
Gaudette, Adam
997 500 $
C
RFA - 1
CHI
Carpenter, Ryan
1 000 000 $
AD, C
UFA - 1
Défenseur gaucherDéfenseur droitierGardien de but
CHI
Kalynuk, Wyatt
925 000 $
DG
RFA - 1
CHI
Jones, Seth
5 400 000 $
DD
NTC
UFA - 1
CHI
Lankinen, Kevin
800 000 $
G
UFA - 1
CHI
Stillman, Riley
1 350 000 $
DG
RFA - 3
CHI
Murphy, Connor
3 850 000 $
DD
UFA - 1
PIT
Jarry, Tristan
3 500 000 $
G
UFA - 2
CHI
McCabe, Jake
4 000 000 $
DG
NTC
UFA - 4
CHI
De Haan, Calvin
4 550 000 $
DG/DD
UFA - 1
CHI
Jones, Caleb
850 000 $
DG
RFA - 1
Laissés de côtéListe des blessés (IR)Liste des blessés à long terme (LTIR)
CHI
Shaw, Andrew
3 900 000 $
C, AD
UFA - 1
Équipe de réserve
CHI
Connolly, Brett
3 500 000 $ (2 375 000 $)
AD, AG
UFA - 2

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29 juill. à 14 h 44
#1
Banni
Rejoint: mai 2018
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Wow that is just flat out wrong. 1st, majority of pens fans on this site are absolutely clueless. When they got knocked out by MTL 2 years ago, they praised Jarry saying hes the goalie of the future based off like 2 playoff games. Now they talk about him like he is useless.... based off 1 postseason. That sounds awfully familiar to a goalie they had years ago... MAF. He was bad in the playoffs, fans wanted him gone. Then he left, now they want him back. Never listen and form your opinion based off pens fans on this site. 2nd. If MAF only wanted to play for the pens, there is zero chance pittsburgh would add. CHI has zero leverage, so it would make no sense for the pens to add anything
29 juill. à 14 h 54
#2
Cup Whore
Rejoint: janv. 2018
Messages: 192
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I whole heartedly agree with you, the Pens do have something Chi needs. 1rd pick next year. Chi has something the Pens need, 7mil in Capspace. So Hawks could retain upto 3.5m in exchange for 2022 1rd pick, if they need more retention going to have to engage Det or someone for a pick to retain another half. I would rather keep MAF if he will play though, huge in the crease and be a mentor for the others is the most invaluable thing.
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29 juill. à 14 h 54
#3
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exo2769
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Quoting: hockeyfanatic05
Wow that is just flat out wrong. 1st, majority of pens fans on this site are absolutely clueless. When they got knocked out by MTL 2 years ago, they praised Jarry saying hes the goalie of the future based off like 2 playoff games. Now they talk about him like he is useless.... based off 1 postseason. That sounds awfully familiar to a goalie they had years ago... MAF. He was bad in the playoffs, fans wanted him gone. Then he left, now they want him back. Never listen and form your opinion based off pens fans on this site. 2nd. If MAF only wanted to play for the pens, there is zero chance pittsburgh would add. CHI has zero leverage, so it would make no sense for the pens to add anything


I actually agree with the above in BOLD. (and the rest for the record) The best move for the Hawks would be get the $7M in cap space back. BUT Jarry for $7M is VERY BAD. There's no MAF 50% retained for Jarry.
29 juill. à 14 h 57
#4
Banni
Rejoint: mai 2018
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Quoting: exo2769
I actually agree with the above in BOLD. (and the rest for the record) The best move for the Hawks would be get the $7M in cap space back. BUT Jarry for $7M is VERY BAD. There's no MAF 50% retained for Jarry.


I personally disagree. I think jarry at 3.5 for 2 years is a pretty good contract
29 juill. à 14 h 59
#5
Cup Whore
Rejoint: janv. 2018
Messages: 192
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Quoting: hockeyfanatic05
Wow that is just flat out wrong. 1st, majority of pens fans on this site are absolutely clueless. When they got knocked out by MTL 2 years ago, they praised Jarry saying hes the goalie of the future based off like 2 playoff games. Now they talk about him like he is useless.... based off 1 postseason. That sounds awfully familiar to a goalie they had years ago... MAF. He was bad in the playoffs, fans wanted him gone. Then he left, now they want him back. Never listen and form your opinion based off pens fans on this site. 2nd. If MAF only wanted to play for the pens, there is zero chance pittsburgh would add. CHI has zero leverage, so it would make no sense for the pens to add anything


Now there you are wrong, Hawks have all the leverage, they have the player. If he retires, they get 7 mil in cap space, if he plays even better. If he wants traded, Hawks set the price, to the team that he wants to go to, if they say no, up to MAF if he plays or retires.

So options,
1. MAF retires, Hawks get 7mil cap space.
2. MAF plays for Hawks
3. TRADE to Pens, they pay what Hawks want
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29 juill. à 15 h 0
#6
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exo2769
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Quoting: RicXX
Now there you are wrong, Hawks have all the leverage, they have the player. If he retires, they get 7 mil in cap space, if he plays even better. If he wants traded, Hawks set the price, to the team that he wants to go to, if they say no, up to MAF if he plays or retires.

So options,
1. MAF retires, Hawks get 7mil cap space.
2. MAF plays for Hawks
3. TRADE to Pens, they pay what Hawks want


Or maybe MAF would like to go to EDM???
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29 juill. à 15 h 1
#7
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exo2769
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Quoting: hockeyfanatic05
I personally disagree. I think jarry at 3.5 for 2 years is a pretty good contract


But it wouldn't be. Just factually speaking it's not $3.5M this year. It's $7M this year and $3.5M next year. IF the hawks retain. That's what other PIT fans on here aren't getting.
29 juill. à 15 h 1
#8
Banni
Rejoint: mai 2018
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Quoting: RicXX
Now there you are wrong, Hawks have all the leverage, they have the player. If he retires, they get 7 mil in cap space, if he plays even better. If he wants traded, Hawks set the price, to the team that he wants to go to, if they say no, up to MAF if he plays or retires.

So options,
1. MAF retires, Hawks get 7mil cap space.
2. MAF plays for Hawks
3. TRADE to Pens, they pay what Hawks want


Nope. Wrong.
3. TRADE to pens, pens pay what they want. What leverage do the Hawks have? Absolutely nothing
29 juill. à 15 h 3
#9
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exo2769
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Quoting: hockeyfanatic05
Nope. Wrong.
3. TRADE to pens, pens pay what they want. What leverage do the Hawks have? Absolutely nothing


3 wouldn't happen is what he's saying. PIT yields on #3...or revert back to #1.
29 juill. à 15 h 4
#10
Cup Whore
Rejoint: janv. 2018
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Quoting: hockeyfanatic05
Nope. Wrong.
3. TRADE to pens, pens pay what they want. What leverage do the Hawks have? Absolutely nothing


They have MAF... that's 100% leverage right there. They paid literally nothing for him.
29 juill. à 15 h 4
#11
Banni
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Quoting: exo2769
But it wouldn't be. Just factually speaking it's not $3.5M this year. It's $7M this year and $3.5M next year. IF the hawks retain. That's what other PIT fans on here aren't getting.


Like I said, majority of them are beyond stupid. They want solid players, without giving up anything. So I understand where you are coming from. I think IF there was retention at 50%, I think it would involve Jarry and like a 3rd/4th rounder because I think Hextall is set on Jarry for starting next year. I haven't even heard hes interested in MAF
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29 juill. à 15 h 5
#12
Banni
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Quoting: RicXX
They have MAF... that's 100% leverage right there. They paid literally nothing for him.


No. Thats the opposite of the leverage. Why would the pens pay add assets for a player who stated he does not want to play for them? CHI does not have leverage
29 juill. à 15 h 5
#13
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exo2769
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Quoting: hockeyfanatic05
Like I said, majority of them are beyond stupid. They want solid players, without giving up anything. So I understand where you are coming from. I think IF there was retention at 50%, I think it would involve Jarry and like a 3rd/4th rounder because I think Hextall is set on Jarry for starting next year. I haven't even heard hes interested in MAF


As a Hawks fan...that offer just wouldn't be good enough for me. I'd honestly rather have $7M in cap space to go out and makes trades, sign a different goalie, etc... to make my team better.

To be honest...this sounds like most PIT fans on here. You're looking for the Hawks to do you favors. I don't care about Flower. He doens't want to be here...fine. We don't owe him or PIT anything.
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29 juill. à 15 h 7
#14
Cup Whore
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Quoting: exo2769
Or maybe MAF would like to go to EDM???


Who knows where he would like to go, maybe there would be a bidding war for him. Hawks only loss in this would be if he retires and they loose his mentorship for the young guys and play this season. They still have 4 other signed Goalies.
Quoting: exo2769
Or maybe MAF would like to go to EDM???
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29 juill. à 15 h 7
#15
Banni
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Quoting: exo2769
As a Hawks fan...that offer just wouldn't be good enough for me. I'd honestly rather have $7M in cap space to go out and makes trades, sign a different goalie, etc...


Which is fair to do. But if you got MAF for free, why wouldn't you just collect a 3rd or 4th rounder for him? I dont think CHI is a serious contender next year, so why not add draft picks on a player you got for free?
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29 juill. à 15 h 10
#16
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exo2769
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Quoting: hockeyfanatic05
Which is fair to do. But if you got MAF for free, why wouldn't you just collect a 3rd or 4th rounder for him? I dont think CHI is a serious contender next year, so why not add draft picks on a player you got for free?


IF you take all $7M. Yes. If you want retention. No.
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29 juill. à 15 h 10
#17
Banni
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Quoting: exo2769
IF you take all $7M. Yes.


Do you consider CHI a strong cup contender next year?
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29 juill. à 15 h 12
#18
Cup Whore
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Quoting: hockeyfanatic05
Which is fair to do. But if you got MAF for free, why wouldn't you just collect a 3rd or 4th rounder for him? I dont think CHI is a serious contender next year, so why not add draft picks on a player you got for free?


I'm saying straight up, MAF for a 3-4 rd pick, or 1-2 with retention. Not retaining and adding Jarry, that doesn't make sense to either team I don't think (though wouldn't put it past SB)
29 juill. à 15 h 13
#19
Im am the GM now
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Quoting: hockeyfanatic05
Nope. Wrong.
3. TRADE to pens, pens pay what they want. What leverage do the Hawks have? Absolutely nothing


Chicago paid nothing for Flower, and If the only options for him is the Penguins or retirement. Either the Pens can pay Chicago's price or we let him retire.
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29 juill. à 15 h 13
#20
Cup Whore
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Quoting: hockeyfanatic05
Do you consider CHI a strong cup contender next year?


Could be, they were supposed to be running for the bottom this year, they have only improved over last year (we hope) and with MAF who knows!
29 juill. à 15 h 18
#21
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exo2769
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Modifié 29 juill. à 15 h 46
Quoting: hockeyfanatic05
Do you consider CHI a strong cup contender next year?


I honestly do think they're closer than people give them credit. The Central is a very hard division. The trade value of Jones is too much. I agree. He's still a TRUE #1 Dman though and between him and McCabe they did solve that hole in my mind. If Flower decides CHI isn't a terrible place to play...That's solved in my mind. Toews coming back is a huge deal. The Hawks do need a true top 6 winger, but that's not impossible to get.

COL and WPG are in, but I do think COL took a step back from last year. STL and CHI are next. DAL is the odd man out IMO. MIN will regress. Losing Suter will hurt them more than they think and no one is surprised about Kaprisov anymore. NSH and AZ are rebuilding.
29 juill. à 20 h 33
#22
Banni
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Quoting: Beetlejuice
Chicago paid nothing for Flower, and If the only options for him is the Penguins or retirement. Either the Pens can pay Chicago's price or we let him retire.


Then he retires. Simple as that. Pens aren't even interested in him at this moment, and no team will give up good assets for a player who doesnt want to play for that team.
29 juill. à 22 h 3
#23
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exo2769
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Quoting: hockeyfanatic05
Then he retires. Simple as that. Pens aren't even interested in him at this moment, and no team will give up good assets for a player who doesnt want to play for that team.


I thought that...and one example doesn't make you wrong, but Seth Jones didn't want to play for CBJ and they got a haul.
29 juill. à 22 h 15
#24
Banni
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Quoting: exo2769
I thought that...and one example doesn't make you wrong, but Seth Jones didn't want to play for CBJ and they got a haul.


True. Difference is fleury seems like he only wants to play for vegas right now because he doesn’t want him and his family to move. Whereas Jones is still young and has many years of hockey left
 
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