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(ARI/VAN) - Ekman-Larsson, Garland for Beagle, Eriksson, Roussel, 1st, 2nd, 7th

Who won the trade?
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23 juill. 2021 à 18 h 42
#76
GoJetsGo
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Quoting: capfriendlyaccount
Jim Benning


13 likes holy crap!

Edit: Thank you guys
23 juill. 2021 à 18 h 45
#77
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Quoting: jpsnow13
Yeah, no. They wouldn’t take it.

Also, Vancouver didn't have 10M of capspace. 💸


Yes they would. Hughes was physically incapable of playing defence. He comes back next year and learns how to play d and he signs a $10Mx8. Pettersen was just about useless for the better part of last year. As the most all around talented player in the NHL he could easily get $10Mx8 maybe even $11M with a good year next year. This year, both would be ecstatic to see $8M. Not saying Vancouver should do that though because they traded for OELs contract rendering them cap inflexible.

And your right they don’t have $10M in cap space

They have $20M
23 juill. 2021 à 18 h 48
#78
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Quoting: Hockyluv21
I would've paid that price or more for Garland. I had him as potentially getting Seth Jarvis in a package.


Why?

He isn’t elite by any stretch offensively or defensively. Good at scoring so at the very least he’s a good fit beside Pettersen but any player in the league with a good scoring touch is a good fit beside Pettersen during a good year


23 juill. 2021 à 18 h 49
#79
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Seems like that Phaneuf trade from Toronto to Ottawa when Ottawa dumped 3-4, 1 year deals for one ****ing big contract
23 juill. 2021 à 18 h 52
#80
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Quoting: jpsnow13
The 12 millions they dumped flew over your head obviously


Are you referring to the $12 million that all expires this year?

Because I think he's referring to the $7.3 million with 6 years remaining.

Benning just traded $12,000,000 in bad cap for $43,000,000 in bad cap.

OEL is 30 and probably worth a $2 million dollar cap-hit right now.
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23 juill. 2021 à 19 h 2
#81
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Horrible trade for the Yotes. Have taken all bad Canucks contracts and lost their best player signing rights at the same moment. Very Angry
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23 juill. 2021 à 19 h 26
#82
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Modifié 23 juill. 2021 à 19 h 47
Quoting: Kotkaniemi15
Umm, it might save Benning’s job, but it also set the Canucks back half a decade in terms of being able to ice a contending lineup.


This is how I see things:


1. Garland for 9th overall, straight up.

Some of us, (myself included), had Sam Reinhart traded for 9th overall straight up.

I might get a lot of heat for this but I think it's a somewhat fair comparable.



2. OEL with retention for everything else

Eriksson, Beagle, Roussel are all cap dumps.

The only thing that Arizona got in value from the OEL part of the trade is a 2nd round pick that can't be used until next year.



3. OEL can still be a Top 4 defenceman on some NHL teams.

If Sweden were to compete internationally, he would likely make the team.



4. Much of the voting in favour of Arizona is because everybody hates Jim Benning, except for the Aquilinis.

That's fine.

I think he did reasonably well here.
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23 juill. 2021 à 19 h 47
#83
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Quoting: sensonfire
This is how I see things:


1. Garland for 9th overall, straight up.

Some of us, (myself included), had Sam Reinhart traded for 9th overall straight up.

I might get a lot of heat for this but I think it's somewhat fair comparable.



2. OEL with retention for everything else

Eriksson, Beagle, Roussel are all cap dumps.

The only thing that Arizona got in value from the OEL part of the trade is a 2nd round pick that can't be used until next year.



3. OEL can still be a Top 4 defenceman on some NHL teams.

If Sweden were to compete internationally, he would likely make the team.



4. Much of the voting in favour of Arizona is because everybody hates Jim Benning, except for the Aquilinis.

That's fine.

I think he did reasonably well here.


He addressed two needs and moved out dead money. Canucks cupboard is bare but theyre a better team than they were yesterday. Garland and Horvat are going to complete each other so well.
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23 juill. 2021 à 19 h 53
#84
Brad Boyes please Wq
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Quoting: TheFlamingC




Wtf Van

Not anymore
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23 juill. 2021 à 19 h 59
#85
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Quoting: DavidAyers
Not anymore


Lmao yep
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23 juill. 2021 à 21 h 23
#86
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Quoting: ConnorMcHellebucyk
All these bad contracts end soon. Number 9 could be a big deal. Losing garland sucks but benning is stuck with OEL for many years. Arguably the worst contract in the league off of Arizona’s books. Big win by Armstrong.


Guenther 👀 this trade looks worse already
23 juill. 2021 à 21 h 34
#87
You know nothing JS
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Quoting: TheFlamingC
Yes they would. Hughes was physically incapable of playing defence. He comes back next year and learns how to play d and he signs a $10Mx8. Pettersen was just about useless for the better part of last year. As the most all around talented player in the NHL he could easily get $10Mx8 maybe even $11M with a good year next year. This year, both would be ecstatic to see $8M. Not saying Vancouver should do that though because they traded for OELs contract rendering them cap inflexible.

And your right they don’t have $10M in cap space

They have $20M


Someone who can't see the difference between the past and present tense goes strait to my ignore list. Bye.
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23 juill. 2021 à 21 h 41
#88
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Quoting: jpsnow13
Someone who can't see the difference between the past and present tense goes strait to my ignore list. Bye.


K man

No idea what your on about

You won’t be missed
23 juill. 2021 à 21 h 44
#89
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Quoting: TheFlamingC
K man

No idea what your on about

You won’t be missed


They didn't have 20M before the trade they had more like 14M
23 juill. 2021 à 22 h 4
#90
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Dylan Guenther had exactly:

- 2 points per game in the WHL this year.
- 1 goal per game in the WHL this year.
- And the kid was only 17 years old.

Guenther was ranked 5th overall in an average ranking of 45 major draft publications.

Guenther will have a $900,000 cap-hit for the next 3-5 years.
Ekman-Larsson has a $7,200,000 cap-hit for the next 6 years.

Benning is the GOAT.
24 juill. 2021 à 10 h 11
#91
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Quoting: yikes
This trade is not great for one team
but brutal for the other. You know who’s who.

Arizona continues to hoard trash and picks.

And all I can is Benning has both improved the Canucks while also financially crippling them. Therefore he has also.. not improved the Canucks… so sounds about right for Jimbo..

Arizona W.


I think this is a canucks win. They get better right now.
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25 juill. 2021 à 16 h 14
#92
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Quoting: capfriendlyaccount
13 likes holy crap!

Edit: Thank you guys


I’ve seen one get 40
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25 juill. 2021 à 16 h 15
#93
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Quoting: KSIxSKULLS
Benning is so bad. I swear all of Canada's GM's sole purpose in life is to ensure that Canada never sees a Stanley Cup. All of these GM's (barring Bergevin) know what they are doing


Unless your Ken Holland or Jim Benning
25 juill. 2021 à 16 h 29
#94
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Quoting: IconicHawk
Unless your Ken Holland or Jim Benning


???
25 juill. 2021 à 23 h 33
#95
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people seriously don't realize how good garland is. arizona got fleeced here. maybe he will finally be known as a league superstar for playing in a market like vancouver
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10 août 2021 à 9 h 54
#96
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What do you guy think about them retaining Salary
I Don't think they should of but that my thought
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13 août 2021 à 0 h 37
#97
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Quoting: drewjenkins
Dylan Guenther had exactly:

- 2 points per game in the WHL this year.
- 1 goal per game in the WHL this year.
- And the kid was only 17 years old.

Guenther was ranked 5th overall in an average ranking of 45 major draft publications.

Guenther will have a $900,000 cap-hit for the next 3-5 years.
Ekman-Larsson has a $7,200,000 cap-hit for the next 6 years.

Benning is the GOAT.


It's Garland vs Guenther. If Guenther is a bust and Garland continues his progress, then Vancouver wins this trade in the long run.
13 août 2021 à 12 h 27
#98
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Quoting: PrisonBull
It's Garland vs Guenther. If Guenther is a bust and Garland continues his progress, then Vancouver wins this trade in the long run.


If the trade was only Garland for Guenther than I would agree with you.

But Benning also swapped $12,000,000 in bad contracts (all expiring this year) for $43,500,000 in bad contracts ($7,250,000 x 6 years = $43,500,000).

OEL's contract is really going to hurt the Canucks over the next 6 years (years 3-6 was looking like their cup window). This wasn't the year to mortgage their future.

Benning also gave Arizona and extra 2nd round pick + 7th round pick.
23 août 2021 à 23 h 12
#99
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This is a difficult trade to analyze because there are so many parts to it, and I’m not sure you can break it down into who was traded for what because if parts of it could have stood as separate deals they probably would have been made separately. However, there’s really no other way to evaluate it, so I’m going to try breaking it down.

Let’s look at Garland first. The market price for trading a mid-level RFA that you can’t sign or don’t want to sign (I’m not sure which is the case here) is a 2nd or 3rd round draft pick. Garland is probably near the high end of that, so Vancouver’s 2nd round pick seems about right for him. He’s a good young player but I don’t think he was worth a 1st as an unsigned RFA, because as a 25-year-old forward he’s probably already hit his ceiling, and being unsigned lowers his trade value because of the uncertainty around what it’ll take to sign him.

The Eriksson/Beagle/Roussel salary dump of about $12M in cap space is an obvious benefit for both teams given Vancouver’s immediate need to clear cap space to sign Pettersson and Hughes and Arizona’s strategy of hoarding draft picks in return for taking on short-term cap hit. Although it’s only for one year, that much cap space is an extremely valuable commodity in today’s flat cap world. It looks like the going rate for a dump of around $5M is a 2nd round pick. Florida paid a prospect and a 2nd to dump Anton Stralman’s contract with one year left at $5.5M. $12M is more than double that, so a 9th overall pick for that doesn’t seem unreasonable. (I don’t think it’s fair to call this a trade for Dylan Guenther, because at the time the trade was made nobody expected Guenther to be available that late.) Could Vancouver have found another team that would take something less than their 1st round draft pick to take on those contracts? Probably not, but they may have had another option, which I’ll get to later.

So if the salary dump and Garland are worth the 1st and 2nd, that leaves Ekman-Larsson for the 7th round pick. Whether that’s a good deal depends on whether you think OEL is an asset or a liability at $7.26M for 6 years. At age 30 now he’s probably going to be a liability by the time Arizona’s rebuild bears fruit, but he could be an asset for Vancouver if he plays at the level that earned him his current contract. I haven’t seen him play much since he signed it, but I see that his offensive numbers have dropped in that time, though only very slightly based on points per game so it’s probably not significant. That’s as far as I’ve looked statistically, so I can’t really offer an opinion on whether he’s still worth his cap hit. Based on his age I doubt that he’ll play at that level for another 6 years, but if he gives Vancouver 3 good years and the salary cap starts going up again to the point where his contract (or a buyout) doesn’t handcuff them in the last 3 years, that might be as much as they’re hoping for.

Getting back to the salary dump, I said the Canucks may have had another option. If they hadn’t taken on OEL, they may have been able to get away with clearing only $6M of cap space instead of $12M. Perhaps that would have cost them only their 2nd round pick instead of their 1st. Of course there’s no guarantee that Arizona would have traded Garland for the 2022 2nd without any of the other parts to this deal, or that Vancouver could have found somebody to take the $6M cap hit for their 2021 2nd, but if you agree with my breakdown it seems possible that the Canucks could have cleared enough cap space without giving up the 9th overall pick if they hadn’t acquired OEL. I guess they’re a better team now with OEL and Garland (assuming they can still find a way to sign Pettersson and Hughes), but did they give up too much future? Only time will tell, but if you think the 2020 playoffs are a better indication than the 2021 regular season of where the Canucks are in their development, the trade appears to make sense for them as part of a going all in to win now strategy.
1 oct. 2021 à 14 h 52
#100
Banni
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I would break this trade down in to three parts:

1st round pick (9th overall: Dylan Guenther) for Conor Garland

Loui Eriksson, Jay Beagle, and Antoine Roussel for Oliver Ekman-Larsson

2nd round pick and 7th round pick for 12% (990k) of OEL's salary retained over the next six years

I think Garland is easily worth a first round pick alone. I would lump all the inefficient contracts together in the same group, I think they are relatively equivalent in terms of value. Last but not least, don't underestimate the significance of retaining salary or dead money long-term, when teams usually retain salary, it's usually only over a 1 or 2 year period and only warrants a 4th or 5th round pick in terms of value. Even though it looks like a relatively small amount (12% = $990k) compared to OEL's total salary ($8.25M), you can fit as much as one league-minimum contract in that space

At the end of the day, the Arizona Coyotes are taking on contracts/money imbued with negative value in order to acquire additional future assets, while the Vancouver Canucks are taking back an asset of negative value back in OEL, they obviously hope that he can bounce back with a change of scenery and a fresh new environment

Bottom line is the Canucks don't agree to this deal unless they feel then can salvage some reasonable value from OEL. Now whether or not any of us agrees with this being a reasonable bet for the club to take, that's another story. I personally think it is considering Vancouver's roster and cap situation

Oh, and even though Arizona has acquired all these draft picks, they still have to draft and develop well. Gaining the assets is only the first step for them, so that's also why I wouldn't be so definitive to call this trade a slam dunk for the Coyotes
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