Forums/Armchair-GM

VAN without giving up futures

Créé par: Reason
Date de création initiale: 22 juill. 2021
Publié: 22 juill. 2021
Équipe: 2021-22 Canucks de Vancouver
Signatures de joueurs autonomes
RFAANSCAP HIT
Hughes, Quinn56 250 000 $
Pettersson, Elias17 500 000 $
Juolevi, Olli1750 000 $
Dickinson, Jason42 250 000 $
UFAANSCAP HIT
Hamonic, Travis22 500 000 $
Sutter, Brandon11 500 000 $
Boyd, Travis1800 000 $
Montour, Brandon43 750 000 $
Transactions
1.
VAN
  1. DeBrusk, Jake
  2. Clifton, Connor
Détails additionnels:
Not to sure of Clifton's value. This would seem pretty close to me but lets hear from the non-bias viewers.
BOS
  1. Schmidt, Nate
  2. MacEwen, Zack
Rachats de contrats
  • Jake Virtanen: 50 000 $
Frais appliqués
  • Roberto Luongo: 3 035 212 $
Enfoui
  • Loui Eriksson: 4 875 000 $ (6 000 000 $)
  • Antoine Roussel: 1 875 000 $ (3 000 000 $)
ANNÉE DE REPÊCHAGERONDE 1RONDE 2RONDE 3RONDE 4RONDE 5RONDE 6RONDE 7
2021
VAN
VAN
VAN
CHI
VAN
WPG
VAN
2022
VAN
VAN
VAN
VAN
VAN
VAN
2023
VAN
VAN
VAN
VAN
VAN
VAN
VAN
TAILLE DE LA FORMATIONPLAFOND SALARIALCAP HITEXCÉDENTS BONISESPACE SOUS LE PLAFOND SALARIAL
2481 500 000 $83 168 159 $648 780 $1 982 500 $-1 668 159 $
Ailier gaucheCentreAilier droit
VAN
Miller, J.T.
5 250 000 $
AG, C
UFA - 2
VAN
Pettersson, Elias
7 500 000 $
C
RFA - 3
VAN
Boeser, Brock
5 875 000 $
AD
RFA - 1
VAN
Pearson, Tanner
3 250 000 $
AG
NTC
UFA - 3
VAN
Horvat, Bo
5 500 000 $
C
UFA - 2
VAN
Höglander, Nils
891 667 $
AG, AD
RFA - 2
BOS
DeBrusk, Jake
3 675 000 $
AG
RFA - 1
VAN
Dickinson, Jason
2 250 000 $
C, AG
UFA - 3
VAN
Podkolzin, Vasily
925 000 $
AD
RFA - 3
VAN
Motte, Tyler
1 225 000 $
AG, AD
UFA - 1
VAN
Sutter, Brandon
1 500 000 $
AD, C
UFA - 1
VAN
Highmore, Matthew
725 000 $
AG, AD
RFA - 1
Défenseur gaucherDéfenseur droitierGardien de but
VAN
Hughes, Quinn
6 250 000 $
DG
UFA - 6
VAN
Hamonic, Travis
2 500 000 $
DD
NTC
UFA - 2
VAN
Demko, Thatcher
5 000 000 $
G
UFA - 5
Montour, Brandon
3 750 000 $
DG/DD
UFA - 3
VAN
Myers, Tyler
6 000 000 $
DD
NTC
UFA - 3
VAN
Holtby, Braden
4 300 000 $
G
NTC
UFA - 1
VAN
Rathbone, Jack
925 000 $
DG
RFA - 1
BOS
Clifton, Connor
1 000 000 $
DG/DD
UFA - 2
VAN
Holtby, Braden
2 000 000 $
G
UFA - 1
Laissés de côtéListe des blessés (IR)Liste des blessés à long terme (LTIR)
VAN
Boyd, Travis
800 000 $
C, AD
UFA - 1
VAN
Ferland, Micheal
3 500 000 $
AG, AD
NTC
UFA - 2
VAN
Lockwood, William
842 500 $
AD
RFA - 1
VAN
Beagle, Jay
3 000 000 $
C
NTC
UFA - 1
VAN
Juolevi, Olli
750 000 $
DG
RFA - 1

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22 juill. à 20 h 17
#1
Rejoint: avr. 2021
Messages: 7,502
Mentions "j'aime": 2,560
Bahahhahaha dude. You are so far off its insane. Remove Clifton and debrusk and I think its still a no from Boston.
22 juill. à 20 h 21
#2
Rejoint: janv. 2017
Messages: 13,688
Mentions "j'aime": 5,487
Boston passes. Schmidt is not a 6m d man. His term and contract are a detriment to Boston and is not the type of d man they are looking for anyway.
22 juill. à 20 h 21
#3
Rejoint: janv. 2020
Messages: 7,978
Mentions "j'aime": 2,093
I don't think DeBrusk or Clifton have very much value (maybe a 5th round pick) but I don't think Boston would take on Schmidt's 5.95M cap hit when they wouldn't pay Krug 6.5M.
Reason a aimé ceci.
22 juill. à 20 h 30
#4
ALL HAIL KING LOUI
Rejoint: sept. 2020
Messages: 634
Mentions "j'aime": 35
Schmidt's contract rn isn't good.
22 juill. à 20 h 30
#5
Rejoint: juin 2016
Messages: 10,916
Mentions "j'aime": 4,820
Quoting: Leafs_and_Sens_Fan
I don't think DeBrusk or Clifton have very much value (maybe a 5th round pick) but I don't think Boston would take on Schmidt's 5.95M cap hit when they wouldn't pay Krug 6.5M.


DeBrusk isn't worth a 5th, he's worth more than that, even if he struggled the past season.
22 juill. à 20 h 34
#6
Rejoint: avr. 2021
Messages: 7,502
Mentions "j'aime": 2,560
Quoting: Leafs_and_Sens_Fan
I don't think DeBrusk or Clifton have very much value (maybe a 5th round pick) but I don't think Boston would take on Schmidt's 5.95M cap hit when they wouldn't pay Krug 6.5M.


They do to boston. Lumping those two in at a 5th is insanity.
22 juill. à 20 h 43
#7
Rejoint: juin 2020
Messages: 382
Mentions "j'aime": 58
Can you delusional Canucks fans just stop, we aren't taking schmidt
22 juill. à 20 h 48
#8
Démarrer sujet
Rejoint: juill. 2020
Messages: 489
Mentions "j'aime": 212
Quoting: CMcAvoy73
Bahahhahaha dude. You are so far off its insane. Remove Clifton and debrusk and I think its still a no from Boston.


Interesting, there’s been some chatter in local Vancouver radio stations about a possible trade cantering around Schmidt and DeBrusk, don’t know if it came from insiders or was their own speculation. There’s been plenty of chatter about Boston adding a D so from a need standpoint I could see it making sense.

Quoting: Gofnut999
Boston passes. Schmidt is not a 6m d man. His term and contract are a detriment to Boston and is not the type of d man they are looking for anyway.


Cap and term are definitely something to consider. Boston was apparently in on OEL last season so I did t think Schmidt’s contract would be to much of an issue, but I can definitely see the concern. Personally if Schmidt haven’t requested a trade I would want to keep him if I were Vancouver. He had a poor start but played fairly well for most of the year on a terrible team while learning new systems.
Quoting: Leafs_and_Sens_Fan
I don't think DeBrusk or Clifton have very much value (maybe a 5th round pick) but I don't think Boston would take on Schmidt's 5.95M cap hit when they wouldn't pay Krug 6.5M.


I think this is a totally fair comment. I mentioned salary above and why I did t think it would be a huge concern for Boston (they were in on OEL). DeBrusk had a poor year, and although I haven’t seen much of Clifton he’s a 26 year bottom pair D man no? Seemed like fair value for a top 4 D, 1 year removed from being a top pair D with potential to bounce back. Value on both DeBrusk and Schmidt is currently low.
22 juill. à 20 h 55
#9
Démarrer sujet
Rejoint: juill. 2020
Messages: 489
Mentions "j'aime": 212
Quoting: Xolie
Can you delusional Canucks fans just stop, we aren't taking schmidt


I'll accept my designation into the delusional category. Heck looking at comments on this site it's either 95% of people making AGM teams are delusional, or 95% of comments are coming from people who are bias towards their team...
Bruinadian67, Gofnut999, Xolie and 1 other person a aimé ceci.
22 juill. à 20 h 58
#10
Rejoint: avr. 2021
Messages: 7,502
Mentions "j'aime": 2,560
Quoting: Reason
Interesting, there’s been some chatter in local Vancouver radio stations about a possible trade cantering around Schmidt and DeBrusk, don’t know if it came from insiders or was their own speculation. There’s been plenty of chatter about Boston adding a D so from a need standpoint I could see it making sense.

Cap and term are definitely something to consider. Boston was apparently in on OEL last season so I did t think Schmidt’s contract would be to much of an issue, but I can definitely see the concern. Personally if Schmidt haven’t requested a trade I would want to keep him if I were Vancouver. He had a poor start but played fairly well for most of the year on a terrible team while learning new systems.

I think this is a totally fair comment. I mentioned salary above and why I did t think it would be a huge concern for Boston (they were in on OEL). DeBrusk had a poor year, and although I haven’t seen much of Clifton he’s a 26 year bottom pair D man no? Seemed like fair value for a top 4 D, 1 year removed from being a top pair D with potential to bounce back. Value on both DeBrusk and Schmidt is currently low.



I mean, it can’t be from an insider. It’s one of those trades where you just look at it, chuckle, and say, there isn’t a GM on the planet dumb enough to do that. Vancouver eats 50%, and the bruins are probably willing to take schmidt for a low pick. Debrusk with no retention? It’s just absurd.
22 juill. à 21 h 4
#11
GM CRIME DAWG
Rejoint: mars 2019
Messages: 2,461
Mentions "j'aime": 888
Give Don Sweeney some credit...
22 juill. à 21 h 20
#12
Rejoint: janv. 2017
Messages: 13,688
Mentions "j'aime": 5,487
Modifié 22 juill. à 23 h 59
Quoting: Reason
Interesting, there’s been some chatter in local Vancouver radio stations about a possible trade cantering around Schmidt and DeBrusk, don’t know if it came from insiders or was their own speculation. There’s been plenty of chatter about Boston adding a D so from a need standpoint I could see it making sense.



Cap and term are definitely something to consider. Boston was apparently in on OEL last season so I did t think Schmidt’s contract would be to much of an issue, but I can definitely see the concern. Personally if Schmidt haven’t requested a trade I would want to keep him if I were Vancouver. He had a poor start but played fairly well for most of the year on a terrible team while learning new systems.

I think this is a totally fair comment. I mentioned salary above and why I did t think it would be a huge concern for Boston (they were in on OEL). DeBrusk had a poor year, and although I haven’t seen much of Clifton he’s a 26 year bottom pair D man no? Seemed like fair value for a top 4 D, 1 year removed from being a top pair D with potential to bounce back. Value on both DeBrusk and Schmidt is currently low.


They kicked the tires on OEL to see what the cost was and how much they could get them to retain but in the end it was not worth it.

There is nothing out of Boston on Debrusk/Schmidt. I’d say it’s more speculation but who knows.
Reason a aimé ceci.
22 juill. à 21 h 39
#13
Démarrer sujet
Rejoint: juill. 2020
Messages: 489
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Quoting: CMcAvoy73
I mean, it can’t be from an insider. It’s one of those trades where you just look at it, chuckle, and say, there isn’t a GM on the planet dumb enough to do that. Vancouver eats 50%, and the bruins are probably willing to take schmidt for a low pick. Debrusk with no retention? It’s just absurd.


Seems to be lots of people that think Schmidt is a cap dump, I don't think anyone that actually watched him plays after the first month of the season sees that as being the case. Last year Schmidt was considered a steal and his cap hit was concerned to be of positive value. Yes his numbers offensive numbers were down this year but he still played well on a very bad team.
22 juill. à 21 h 40
#14
Rejoint: avr. 2021
Messages: 7,502
Mentions "j'aime": 2,560
Quoting: Reason
Seems to be lots of people that think Schmidt is a cap dump, I don't think anyone that actually watched him plays after the first month of the season sees that as being the case. Last year Schmidt was considered a steal and his cap hit was concerned to be of positive value. Yes his numbers offensive numbers were down this year but he still played well on a very bad team.


At his age, cap hit, term, and performance, he’s a huge gamble.
22 juill. à 21 h 43
#15
Rejoint: déc. 2020
Messages: 273
Mentions "j'aime": 58
Quoting: Reason
I'll accept my designation into the delusional category. Heck looking at comments on this site it's either 95% of people making AGM teams are delusional, or 95% of comments are coming from people who are bias towards their team...


If you're looking for objectivity, you came to the wrong place lol! Schmidt had some good years (mostly in Vegas) and suffered a setback in the past year, much like DeBrusk. But Schmidt is older and on a suffering team so it's safe to say a change of scenery might do him good. Debrusk is younger with a greater chance of having a good bounce back year. So if you just traded those two, Vancouver wins that deal and has a greater chance of getting much more out of Jake than Boston would get out of Nate even with some salary retention. MacEwen is a big young body with not enough of a sample size in the NHL to make a solid judgement. I picture him on a teams 4th line with limited minutes unless he has a breakout year or gels with certain teammates whereas Clifton can maintain some consistency as a 3rd pairing defense partner. I could see Sweeney taking a chance on Schmidt but not for JD or CC. Maybe for a prospect and late pick with 1/3 retention.
Reason a aimé ceci.
22 juill. à 22 h 7
#16
Démarrer sujet
Rejoint: juill. 2020
Messages: 489
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Quoting: Bruinadian67
If you're looking for objectivity, you came to the wrong place lol! Schmidt had some good years (mostly in Vegas) and suffered a setback in the past year, much like DeBrusk. But Schmidt is older and on a suffering team so it's safe to say a change of scenery might do him good. Debrusk is younger with a greater chance of having a good bounce back year. So if you just traded those two, Vancouver wins that deal and has a greater chance of getting much more out of Jake than Boston would get out of Nate even with some salary retention. MacEwen is a big young body with not enough of a sample size in the NHL to make a solid judgement. I picture him on a teams 4th line with limited minutes unless he has a breakout year or gels with certain teammates whereas Clifton can maintain some consistency as a 3rd pairing defense partner. I could see Sweeney taking a chance on Schmidt but not for JD or CC. Maybe for a prospect and late pick with 1/3 retention.


I don't know that I fully agree with your statement regarding DeBrusk having a greater chance at a bounce back year. I do think Jake is a better player than he was last year and I do think he will be better season next year, however Schmidt had more change than DeBrusk did last season. It can take time to adjust to new systems and especially playing behind a significantly worse group of players. I think there's a very strong chance Schmidt will have a better overall season than the one he had last year, he may not be a top pair D going forward but I fully expect him to be a solid top 4.

I agree with both your assessments of both MacEwen and from what I have heard/read about Cliffton (haven't seen him play much).

I appreciate the insightful and respectful discussion!
Mediumyeet a aimé ceci.
22 juill. à 22 h 18
#17
Rejoint: déc. 2020
Messages: 273
Mentions "j'aime": 58
Quoting: Reason
I don't know that I fully agree with your statement regarding DeBrusk having a greater chance at a bounce back year. I do think Jake is a better player than he was last year and I do think he will be better season next year, however Schmidt had more change than DeBrusk did last season. It can take time to adjust to new systems and especially playing behind a significantly worse group of players. I think there's a very strong chance Schmidt will have a better overall season than the one he had last year, he may not be a top pair D going forward but I fully expect him to be a solid top 4.

I agree with both your assessments of both MacEwen and from what I have heard/read about Cliffton (haven't seen him play much).

I appreciate the insightful and respectful discussion!


Thanks! It's refreshing to NOT be insulted for everything I type!! What you might not know is that DeBrusk had Covid twice and suffered depression due to isolation and being separated from his loved ones. He was also bounced around in the line-up and played on his off wing where he struggled. While I get that playing a different system on a team that had a bad year may have lent to his lack-luster play, he's considered a veteran who's experience (he went from the Caps to the Knights and got better) should have helped him adapt. I think if he stays in Vancouver and things get much closer to normal, he may surprise everybody! Same with DeBrusk.
Reason a aimé ceci.
22 juill. à 22 h 41
#18
Démarrer sujet
Rejoint: juill. 2020
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Quoting: Bruinadian67
Thanks! It's refreshing to NOT be insulted for everything I type!! What you might not know is that DeBrusk had Covid twice and suffered depression due to isolation and being separated from his loved ones. He was also bounced around in the line-up and played on his off wing where he struggled. While I get that playing a different system on a team that had a bad year may have lent to his lack-luster play, he's considered a veteran who's experience (he went from the Caps to the Knights and got better) should have helped him adapt. I think if he stays in Vancouver and things get much closer to normal, he may surprise everybody! Same with DeBrusk.


I was unaware of DeBrusk's situation, I hadn't really thought about how that could affect play ones play on the ice but that totally makes sense. I wonder if we will see more bounce back years than normal next season?

Cheers!
Bruinadian67 et Mediumyeet a aimé ceci.
22 juill. à 23 h 42
#19
Rejoint: oct. 2020
Messages: 1,053
Mentions "j'aime": 342
Quoting: CMcAvoy73
I mean, it can’t be from an insider. It’s one of those trades where you just look at it, chuckle, and say, there isn’t a GM on the planet dumb enough to do that. Vancouver eats 50%, and the bruins are probably willing to take schmidt for a low pick. Debrusk with no retention? It’s just absurd.


You're acting like Debrusk didn't just score 5 goals in 41 games and isn't a 3.675mil cap hit with 4.8 in real dollars owed to him plus a qualifying offer in the mid 4million range next year. Fair enough if you think Schmidt is being overvalued but you are definitely overvaluing Debrusk as well and by a large margin.
Reason a aimé ceci.
22 juill. à 23 h 49
#20
Rejoint: oct. 2020
Messages: 1,053
Mentions "j'aime": 342
Quoting: Reason
Seems to be lots of people that think Schmidt is a cap dump, I don't think anyone that actually watched him plays after the first month of the season sees that as being the case. Last year Schmidt was considered a steal and his cap hit was concerned to be of positive value. Yes his numbers offensive numbers were down this year but he still played well on a very bad team.


I can see why people are hesitant about Schmidt but I agree with you that he's a solid top 4dmen and I think most executives see him as such. His contract is a little rich especially with the term so that is a cause for concern.

Debrusk has potential to bounce back a bit as well but there is also a lot of risk there. I see Boston fans greatly overvaluing him on here. Much like Schmidt (although for different reasons) his contract is a concern. He's a 3.65m cap hit this year owed 4.8m in salary and his qualifying offer is around 4.2mil I believe. If he doesn't perform and score close to 20 goals then there is a very real chance that he isn't qualified next year making him a UFA.
Reason a aimé ceci.
23 juill. à 0 h 2
#21
Rejoint: janv. 2017
Messages: 13,688
Mentions "j'aime": 5,487
Quoting: Mediumyeet
You're acting like Debrusk didn't just score 5 goals in 41 games and isn't a 3.675mil cap hit with 4.8 in real dollars owed to him plus a qualifying offer in the mid 4million range next year. Fair enough if you think Schmidt is being overvalued but you are definitely overvaluing Debrusk as well and by a large margin.


You are acting like you don’t know why. Or what he was before the bubble, or how over rated Schmidt has always been, or the difference in age, and contracts, and…nevermind. You do you.
23 juill. à 0 h 8
#22
Rejoint: oct. 2020
Messages: 1,053
Mentions "j'aime": 342
Quoting: Gofnut999
You are acting like you don’t know why. Or what he was before the bubble, or how over rated Schmidt has always been, or the difference in age, and contracts, and…nevermind. You do you.


I didn't argue that Schmidt wasn't being overvalued as well. Still doesn't change the fact that Debrusk is being overvalued on here. Also if you're going to use Debrusk performance pre bubble then you have to accept the argument of Schmidt's performance pre bubble (or pre this season) as well.

What do you think would be a fair return for Debrusk? Not just from the Canucks but from any team?
23 juill. à 0 h 16
#23
Rejoint: janv. 2020
Messages: 7,978
Mentions "j'aime": 2,093
Quoting: bhavikp27
DeBrusk isn't worth a 5th, he's worth more than that, even if he struggled the past season.


Quoting: CMcAvoy73
They do to boston. Lumping those two in at a 5th is insanity.


DeBrusk has a QO of 4.85M + arb rights which basically means he isn't getting qualified. He has a cap hit of 3.675M and has gotten worse every season he plays (his best season was his rookie season).

I don't see DeBrusk outplaying his contract next season even if he rebounds it's a fair contract but not a discount. You're also taking the risk he plays the way he did this season or worse. At this point I wouldn't give up any assets for him. What the Bruins would get by trading him is cap space.

Just like Schmidt is a good player in a vacuum he's just not worth the cap hit. Same story with DeBrusk.

Clifton I'd give a 5th for, he's a decent 3rd pairing defenceman that can be fully buried.

Quoting: Bruinadian67
If you're looking for objectivity, you came to the wrong place lol! Schmidt had some good years (mostly in Vegas) and suffered a setback in the past year, much like DeBrusk. But Schmidt is older and on a suffering team so it's safe to say a change of scenery might do him good. Debrusk is younger with a greater chance of having a good bounce back year. So if you just traded those two, Vancouver wins that deal and has a greater chance of getting much more out of Jake than Boston would get out of Nate even with some salary retention. MacEwen is a big young body with not enough of a sample size in the NHL to make a solid judgement. I picture him on a teams 4th line with limited minutes unless he has a breakout year or gels with certain teammates whereas Clifton can maintain some consistency as a 3rd pairing defense partner. I could see Sweeney taking a chance on Schmidt but not for JD or CC. Maybe for a prospect and late pick with 1/3 retention.


Schmidt at 4M is actually a pretty good contract imo. I could see teams giving up more than a prospect and a late pick for that considering his versatility of being able to play both sides effectively.

Boston would be smart to hold onto DeBrusk who I think is at an all time low in value right now. Personally I wouldn't take him for free.
23 juill. à 0 h 16
#24
Rejoint: janv. 2020
Messages: 7,978
Mentions "j'aime": 2,093
Quoting: Mediumyeet
I didn't argue that Schmidt wasn't being overvalued as well. Still doesn't change the fact that Debrusk is being overvalued on here. Also if you're going to use Debrusk performance pre bubble then you have to accept the argument of Schmidt's performance pre bubble (or pre this season) as well.

What do you think would be a fair return for Debrusk? Not just from the Canucks but from any team?


Fair return for DeBrusk is future considerations.
Mediumyeet a aimé ceci.
23 juill. à 0 h 23
#25
Rejoint: janv. 2017
Messages: 13,688
Mentions "j'aime": 5,487
Quoting: Mediumyeet
I didn't argue that Schmidt wasn't being overvalued as well. Still doesn't change the fact that Debrusk is being overvalued on here. Also if you're going to use Debrusk performance pre bubble then you have to accept the argument of Schmidt's performance pre bubble (or pre this season) as well.

What do you think would be a fair return for Debrusk? Not just from the Canucks but from any team?


There is a difference in age as well, Debrusk was averaging 25 goals per 82 his first 3 years. At his prime Schmidt was average defensively. He’s a 25 pt d man that is below average defensively, doesn’t hit anyone and nearing the end of his prime years.

After the Arvidsson trade i’d say 2nd and 5th is about his value. Rather hold him a see if he rebuilds his value if they can’t do better. Seattle for Dunn would make sense.
Mediumyeet a aimé ceci.
 
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