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Edmonton Oilers signed Ryan Nugent-Hopkins (8 Years / $5,125,000 AAV)

Was this a good signing?
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29 juin à 17 h 56
#51
Rejoint: mars 2017
Messages: 888
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Quoting: StonyOil
you think with the lack of top6 C in free agency he wouldnt pull 6? tough take


Players of his caliber were getting 3-5 million last year and the cap didn't go up.

And none of them get 8 year terms.

Toffoli
Hoffman
Dadanov
Pageau
Lowry
Coyle

I doubt anyone would give him 6 million x 7 years.
29 juin à 18 h 6
#52
Rejoint: août 2020
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Quoting: Bdawwwgy1
He had his worse year last year. How did he improve at all.... he had like 6 5v5 points playing with freaking mcdavid


“has improved at both ends of the ice in recent years” - as I said, his game away from the puck in the last few years has improved.

Last season he played the most minutes short handed by and Oilers forward not named Archibald too.

In the final 22 games, Nuge had 12 points playing primarily with Yamamoto/Turris/Kanhun. Hardly ideal line mates, and he also saw his powerplay TOI drop by 2 minutes per game. Points aren’t everything, for Nuge he’s been bringing more to the team when the point totals haven’t been there. It’s still a solid contract for a guy who is good for ~60 points a year, is on the top PP and PK too
OldNYIfan a aimé ceci.
29 juin à 18 h 17
#53
Just Keep Swimming
Rejoint: juin 2018
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Quoting: mondo
Still, 5 million for someone who may be able to only go at fourth-line minutes or on LITR isn't ideal.

I'd bank on RNH aging like Spezza did though. Not much to worry about.


Spezza plays some of the lighest competition in the league being heavily sheltered by Keefe. If he were being paid 5 million against the cap to do so we would be up in arms over it.
29 juin à 18 h 24
#54
Oui non grille-pain
Rejoint: févr. 2017
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Quoting: BeterChiarelli
This seems like shallow philosophy at best.

No GM signs a deal thinking they'll need to buy it out down the road or adds that in as a factor to how the deal is structured. In fact I'd argue that a GM planning that sort of contingency is likely a piss-poor GM to begin with. Requiring the contingency of a buyout in a deal probably means the deal itself is a bad contract. It seems counter-intuitive to what it would take to be a good GM. Now, setting up the actual dollars owed to be less than the AAV in the final years of the deal? There inlies a proper safety net: the contract, akin to player performance, takes the decline of age into consideration. Cash-poor teams that need to hit the cap floor have a desire to take those kinds of contracts on, especially if Edmonton is offering retained salary in such a trade.

LTIR exists as the ultimate safety net should the player get injured: unless we're expecting RNH to completely forget how to play hockey, there's virtually no risk with this deal.

I find instances of thoughts like these more frequently: it's no secret that the NHL is always getting younger but there is no temporal boundary at whatever age (say 32) that suggests that a player must be bad because he's "sports old". Look at how many 36 year-olds had half-point-per-game or higher seasons this year. Look at the longevity of players objectively worse than RNH that have maintained careers into their late 30s.

Teams need to be less afraid of that 8-year term if it means they can save substantially on AAV. Good players will go into those final years with the soft skills they've developed (hockey IQ specifically) and provide more than those players that lacked higher dimensions to their games.


Jesus Christ, it was just an observation.
29 juin à 18 h 27
#55
Rejoint: août 2020
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Quoting: drewjenkins
Players of his caliber were getting 3-5 million last year and the cap didn't go up.

And none of them get 8 year terms.

Toffoli
Hoffman
Dadanov
Pageau
Lowry
Coyle

I doubt anyone would give him 6 million x 7 years.


None of those guys are top 6 centers

Pageau and Coyle might get 40 points in their top 9 role, Lowry hasn’t hit 30 points in a season before. Pageau and Coyle got $5M and $5.25M per season coming off of $3M contracts. Nuge is coming off a $6M deal and is only 28. Hoffman and Dadanov are 2-3 years older and wingers. Toffoli is also a winger, has averaged 34-45 points a year for the last few years.

As the leading center in a poor UFA year for C’s, Nuge easily could have gotten $6M as a top 6C averaging 60 points per year.

I’m fairly certain that only the team that drafted the player can offer 8 year deals too. So the Oilers could offer 8 years, but the rest of the league only 7 years max.
jpsnow13, PerpetuallySad, Remus and 1 other person a aimé ceci.
29 juin à 18 h 32
#56
AGM Nostradamus
Rejoint: oct. 2017
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Quoting: EmpressKayla
Jesus Christ, it was just an observation.


But a shockingly bad one nonetheless. Don't be afraid to learn something when someone offers a different way of seeing things.
29 juin à 18 h 54
#57
worst poster
Rejoint: juill. 2019
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Quoting: Random2152
Spezza plays some of the lighest competition in the league being heavily sheltered by Keefe. If he were being paid 5 million against the cap to do so we would be up in arms over it.


He's still effective in the minutes and competition that he plays. I wouldn't be too worried about RNH being a massive burden towards the end of this deal.
BeterChiarelli et OldNYIfan a aimé ceci.
29 juin à 19 h 39
#58
Rejoint: avr. 2020
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Quoting: NLidstrom
“has improved at both ends of the ice in recent years” - as I said, his game away from the puck in the last few years has improved.

Last season he played the most minutes short handed by and Oilers forward not named Archibald too.

In the final 22 games, Nuge had 12 points playing primarily with Yamamoto/Turris/Kanhun. Hardly ideal line mates, and he also saw his powerplay TOI drop by 2 minutes per game. Points aren’t everything, for Nuge he’s been bringing more to the team when the point totals haven’t been there. It’s still a solid contract for a guy who is good for ~60 points a year, is on the top PP and PK too


"Improve at both ends" doesn't mean "his game away from the puck" though.
29 juin à 19 h 58
#59
You know nothing JS
Rejoint: janv. 2017
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Modifié 30 juin à 9 h 42
RNH would have made so much more as a UFA... Even become the Kraken's captain!

Good for EDM. Also good for MTL, since this contract will be Danault's ceiling.
Remus a aimé ceci.
29 juin à 21 h 0
#60
Voice of unreason
Rejoint: mai 2020
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This is a great deal for Edmonton.
Yes the term is long but he could have gotten close to 7mill.

I can live with 2 years of this deal being bad for saving cap now and getting a bargain for 4-5 years
OldNYIfan a aimé ceci.
29 juin à 21 h 3
#61
Voice of unreason
Rejoint: mai 2020
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Quoting: Random2152
Spezza plays some of the lighest competition in the league being heavily sheltered by Keefe. If he were being paid 5 million against the cap to do so we would be up in arms over it.


Where are the other heavily sheltered 37 year olds scoring more points than several teams leading scorers?
OldNYIfan a aimé ceci.
29 juin à 21 h 4
#62
Just Keep Swimming
Rejoint: juin 2018
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Modifié 30 juin à 11 h 31
Quoting: treemos27
Where are the other heavily sheltered 37 year olds scoring more points than several teams leading scorers?


The point isn't that spezza is bad, it's that he is paid league min to play low end comp. Paying someone 5 million for that same production is bad.
29 juin à 21 h 51
#63
Rejoint: mai 2021
Messages: 40
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Quoting: drewjenkins
Players of his caliber were getting 3-5 million last year and the cap didn't go up.

And none of them get 8 year terms.

Toffoli
Hoffman
Dadanov
Pageau
Lowry
Coyle

I doubt anyone would give him 6 million x 7 years.


toffoli - not a C
hoffman - 3 years older, one trick PP pony
dadanov - not a C, & lol
Pageau - career high 43pts
Lowry - 3rd line C, never hit 30pts
Coyle - perenial 30-40pt guy

youre caparables are a bit laughable,
only player that plays PP1 & PK's on ur list is Toffoli, who as stated above doesnt play centre.
jpsnow13 et Remus a aimé ceci.
29 juin à 22 h 41
#64
Rejoint: août 2020
Messages: 35
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This looks like a nice signing as of right now, hopefully this contract will still look nice in 2029. 8 years sounds just a little risky to me.
30 juin à 8 h 27
#65
Habs4Ever
Rejoint: nov. 2016
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30 juin à 9 h 38
#66
King is a good coach
Rejoint: mai 2021
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The term here is god awful 8 years for someone who isn’t really a star the money is good though so a meh signing
weirfanno1 a aimé ceci.
30 juin à 11 h 0
#67
We are all equal
Rejoint: févr. 2016
Messages: 356
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Quoting: IconicHawk
The term here is god awful 8 years for someone who isn’t really a star the money is good though so a meh signing


I agree. Quite good now, the last few years Oiler fans will be saying. I wish we didn't sign him to that dumb contract....

I will be the first to say the cap hit/aav was nice the first few years as all you hmm cough Oiler fans where saying. Suck it up. Future Oilers GM issue. Not the current.
30 juin à 12 h 0
#68
Rejoint: mars 2017
Messages: 888
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Quoting: StonyOil
toffoli - not a C
hoffman - 3 years older, one trick PP pony
dadanov - not a C, & lol
Pageau - career high 43pts
Lowry - 3rd line C, never hit 30pts
Coyle - perenial 30-40pt guy

youre caparables are a bit laughable,
only player that plays PP1 & PK's on ur list is Toffoli, who as stated above doesnt play centre.


You are confusing points with value.

Nuge isn't a great defender, grinder, etc.

He just racks up PP points with McDavid and Draisaitl.
30 juin à 13 h 28
#69
King is a good coach
Rejoint: mai 2021
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Quoting: StonyOil
toffoli - not a C
hoffman - 3 years older, one trick PP pony
dadanov - not a C, & lol
Pageau - career high 43pts
Lowry - 3rd line C, never hit 30pts
Coyle - perenial 30-40pt guy

youre caparables are a bit laughable,
only player that plays PP1 & PK's on ur list is Toffoli, who as stated above doesnt play centre.


I value wingers more then centers
30 juin à 13 h 34
#70
AGM Nostradamus
Rejoint: oct. 2017
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Quoting: KSIxSKULLS



For what it's worth, Dom retracted that. He didn't switch over to offseason mode and his model was still looking at this signing through the lens of midseason mode. Updated model has it a perfectly fair deal. E5JHLi0WQAICf6o?format=jpg&name=large
KSIxSKULLS a aimé ceci.
30 juin à 14 h 42
#71
Go Jets Go
Rejoint: août 2020
Messages: 240
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wayyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyy too much term
1 juill. à 3 h 21
#72
Rejoint: févr. 2021
Messages: 109
Mentions "j'aime": 33
Quoting: aadoyle
Could have made more on open market

but I guess he wanted term

Contract though does lower market prices for other similar players so thats good.


He wanted to stay in Edmonton for personal reasons as well. His wife is from red deer. He definitely gets more on the open market.

I don't think this deal lowers market value of other FA's. There's always guys out there straight out looking to get paid.
1 juill. à 4 h 27
#73
Watches no games
Rejoint: juill. 2017
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It's so crazy to me how people go "cap hit is AMAZING, but term kinda WORRYING???" as implying you can just chose to go low on both. Clearly player and team have two parameters they go back and forth on - players wants as many years for as much money as possible (typically, especially closer to their 30's), and teams typically the opposite. You should evaluate term and cap hit together.

RNH is a good player. Not amazing, but really good. And I think for that, this is a good contract. For most competing teams you're willing to give up some length to reduce the cap hit. HOWEVER, in Edmonton's case I feel like this very much depends on the status of McDavid. If he's prepared to say an Oiler, this makes little sense. You already have a young superstar for enough years for this contract to hurt. If he's potentially looking to leave I think it's more reasonable to make a push for the now and take some damage later.
treemos27 et Saskleaf a aimé ceci.
1 juill. à 11 h 26
#74
Leafs Arethebest
Rejoint: avr. 2020
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Quoting: jpsnow13
RNH would have made so much more as a UFA... Even become the Kraken's captain!

Good for EDM. Also good for MTL, since this contract will be Danault's ceiling.


Ya, if RNH can't get 6 mil, I don't see how Hyman or Danault get 6 mil.
1 juill. à 21 h 0
#75
Voice of unreason
Rejoint: mai 2020
Messages: 315
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Quoting: MelonVK
It's so crazy to me how people go "cap hit is AMAZING, but term kinda WORRYING???" as implying you can just chose to go low on both. Clearly player and team have two parameters they go back and forth on - players wants as many years for as much money as possible (typically, especially closer to their 30's), and teams typically the opposite. You should evaluate term and cap hit together.

RNH is a good player. Not amazing, but really good. And I think for that, this is a good contract. For most competing teams you're willing to give up some length to reduce the cap hit. HOWEVER, in Edmonton's case I feel like this very much depends on the status of McDavid. If he's prepared to say an Oiler, this makes little sense. You already have a young superstar for enough years for this contract to hurt. If he's potentially looking to leave I think it's more reasonable to make a push for the now and take some damage later.


Extremely well said.
MelonVK a aimé ceci.
 
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