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Adding Eichel Without Damaging The Future

Créé par: Bbpagewolf
Équipe: 2021-22 Ducks d'Anaheim
Date de création initiale: 19 juin 2021
Publié: 19 juin 2021
Mode - plafond salarial: Basique
Description
Just gonna say it now, the Sabres are not getting what they or the fans want in any Eichel trade with any team. We’ve seen how superstar trades have worked in the modern era, nobody gets what they want in any deal. The only superstar trade in recent memory that a team got a lot of assets in was the Erik Karlsson trade, and even at the time Ottawa didn’t quite get the players they were primarily targeting nor did anyone expect the 1st that they got to become Tim Stützle. Ottawa wanted guys like Timo Meier, Tomas Hertl, and Marc-Edouard Vlasic at the time. They didn’t get any of them. So the fact that that trade worked out as well as it did for Ottawa was all shear luck that the Sharks turned out to be as bad as they were in 2019-20, and no one was expecting it at the time. So yeah, the Sabres aren’t getting Zegras or Drysdale or Comtois. The 3rd overall maybe, but I think the Ducks can work it so that they don’t have to include that either.
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LISTE DE RÉSERVEANSCAP HIT
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Eklund, William
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Transactions
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BUF
  1. Lindholm, Hampus
  2. Mahura, Josh
  3. Steel, Sam
  4. Tracey, Brayden
  5. Choix de 1e ronde en 2022 (ANA)
Détails additionnels:
1st round pick is for either 2022 or 2023. The Ducks have the option to choose which year they give the pick to the Sabres.
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19 juin 2021 à 18 h 52
#1
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That's a really easy no from buffalo. A mid to later 1st, no A tier prospect, and an aging Defenseman? I don't see why buffalo would want to do this... You won't even include Comtois or 3rd overall lmao
19 juin 2021 à 18 h 52
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OTT didn't get any of those players mainly because EK had only one year left on his contract. Eichel has 5.

Had they dealt EK at his prime with term...that return would've probably doubled in terms of value.
19 juin 2021 à 18 h 52
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Too realistic and level-headed. Wait'll you hear the screams from the Buffalo guys. Hope you're wearing your cup.
19 juin 2021 à 18 h 54
#4
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Makes 0 sense for buffalo to do that
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19 juin 2021 à 18 h 54
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Eichel doesn't go to Anaheim without one of Zegras, Drysdale, or the 3rd overall. Period. Buffalo would send him elsewhere.
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19 juin 2021 à 18 h 58
#6
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What happened to Steel? Has his value dropped since he entered the league? Could he make it as a 3C or is he a winger? What does he project as right now?
19 juin 2021 à 19 h 0
#7
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Quoting: JokiStan
That's a really easy no from buffalo. A mid to later 1st, no A tier prospect, and an aging Defenseman? I don't see why buffalo would want to do this... You won't even include Comtois or 3rd overall lmao


Brayden Tracey is rated a better prospect than anyone you have at LW, including John-Jason Peterka and Linus Weissbach.

Josh Mahura is rated a better prospect than anyone you have at LD, including Ryan Johnson, Jacob Bryson and Mattias Samuelsson.

That package is at least the equivalent of four first-round pick values.
19 juin 2021 à 19 h 2
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Quoting: OldNYIfan
Brayden Tracey is rated a better prospect than anyone you have at LW, including John-Jason Peterka and Linus Weissbach.

Josh Mahura is rated a better prospect than anyone you have at LD, including Ryan Johnson, Jacob Bryson and Mattias Samuelsson.

That package is at least the equivalent of four first-round pick values.


It's not about quantity here. It isn't a terrible package but it lack anything of great quality. What's the centerpiece here? The 1st? Hampus Lindholm? The package would be fine if it was the 2021 1st but it's quantity over quality which is exactly what the O Reilly deal was. You sure love replying to me lol
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19 juin 2021 à 19 h 5
#9
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Quoting: Saskleaf
Eichel doesn't go to Anaheim without one of Zegras, Drysdale, or the 3rd overall. Period. Buffalo would send him elsewhere.


That's fine, and probably true because he'll probably get better offers from Minnesota and the Rangers and maybe even a desultory effort from the Kings. But rebuilding teams with no excess of talent in the prospect pool or surplus first-round picks can't afford to go overboard because one superstar isn't any guarantee of success -- just ask Edmonton, who have two, or Toronto, who have four.
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19 juin 2021 à 19 h 8
#10
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Quoting: JokiStan
It's not about quantity here. It isn't a terrible package but it lack anything of great quality. What's the centerpiece here? The 1st? Hampus Lindholm? The package would be fine if it was the 2021 1st but it's quantity over quality which is exactly what the O Reilly deal was. You sure love replying to me lol


Well, I enjoy the debate. I respect your opinion. And you know something? Your statement in this very comment has convinced me that you're right, and we'll probably have to give up the third overall selection in this draft if the rest of the package is good enough.
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19 juin 2021 à 19 h 10
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Quoting: Canucks33
What happened to Steel? Has his value dropped since he entered the league? Could he make it as a 3C or is he a winger? What does he project as right now?


For a guy who had 131 points in juniors in his draft year, his offensive development has been disappointing.
19 juin 2021 à 19 h 14
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Quoting: OldNYIfan
Well, I enjoy the debate. I respect your opinion. And you know something? Your statement in this very comment has convinced me that you're right, and we'll probably have to give up the third overall selection in this draft if the rest of the package is good enough.


I don't think I'm being super unreasonable, I just feel Eichel's a damn good player and whoever trades for him will be real happy for sure and hope we get a reasonable return
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19 juin 2021 à 19 h 16
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Quoting: OldNYIfan
That's fine, and probably true because he'll probably get better offers from Minnesota and the Rangers and maybe even a desultory effort from the Kings. But rebuilding teams with no excess of talent in the prospect pool or surplus first-round picks can't afford to go overboard because one superstar isn't any guarantee of success -- just ask Edmonton, who have two, or Toronto, who have four.


Oh, sure, but there's no guarantee any of Zegras, Drysdale or the 3rd overall pick will be as good as Eichel or even close to it.
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19 juin 2021 à 19 h 22
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Quoting: Saskleaf
Oh, sure, but there's no guarantee any of Zegras, Drysdale or the 3rd overall pick will be as good as Eichel or even close to it.


Absolutely true. But the assets we already have don't cost us anything, and if you think about it, the chance that Zegras, Drysdale or Guenther won't be as good as Eichel is only a little more likely than the chance that at least one of them will be as good as he is, eventually.
19 juin 2021 à 19 h 26
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Quoting: JokiStan
I don't think I'm being super unreasonable, I just feel Eichel's a damn good player and whoever trades for him will be real happy for sure and hope we get a reasonable return


I don't think that you're being unreasonable at all, let alone "super." My primary objection to 95% of the trades for Eichel (at least those involving Anaheim) is that once the assets go the other way, who is he going to play with? Mitch Marner, William Nylander and John Tavares aren't enough to get Auston Matthews a playoff-round win, for goodness' sake. And we don't have anyone anywhere NEAR those guys.
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19 juin 2021 à 20 h 2
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Quoting: OldNYIfan
I don't think that you're being unreasonable at all, let alone "super." My primary objection to 95% of the trades for Eichel (at least those involving Anaheim) is that once the assets go the other way, who is he going to play with? Mitch Marner, William Nylander and John Tavares aren't enough to get Auston Matthews a playoff-round win, for goodness' sake. And we don't have anyone anywhere NEAR those guys.


That's fair and it's definitely important to keep in mind when building a team! I apologize if I come off as aggressive when commenting, it's tough losing a franchise center and just want to get decent enough value
19 juin 2021 à 21 h 28
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Quoting: OldNYIfan
That's fine, and probably true because he'll probably get better offers from Minnesota and the Rangers and maybe even a desultory effort from the Kings. But rebuilding teams with no excess of talent in the prospect pool or surplus first-round picks can't afford to go overboard because one superstar isn't any guarantee of success -- just ask Edmonton, who have two, or Toronto, who have four.


Toronto has almost 50% of their cap invested in 4 players...how do you fill in the holes with 40 mil to be spread over 19 players....impossible. They slit their throat signing JT.
Edmonton is in the same situation as Buffalo, poor drafting. Very little support other than RNH. Hopefully JP is for real and this season was the start of a promising career
19 juin 2021 à 23 h 3
#18
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Quoting: JokiStan
That's a really easy no from buffalo. A mid to later 1st, no A tier prospect, and an aging Defenseman? I don't see why buffalo would want to do this... You won't even include Comtois or 3rd overall lmao

Obviously you didn’t read the description or if you did then you just have unrealistic expectations. I said that 3rd overall was a possibility, but that I think the Ducks could get around it. Lindholm is certainly not “aging” yet. He’s about to enter the prime years of his career which means on paper you’d be getting peak Lindholm. The premise of that alone is worth enough to not have to include any of the big 4 pieces Buffalo wants from the Ducks.
20 juin 2021 à 13 h 50
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Quoting: OldNYIfan
Absolutely true. But the assets we already have don't cost us anything, and if you think about it, the chance that Zegras, Drysdale or Guenther won't be as good as Eichel is only a little more likely than the chance that at least one of them will be as good as he is, eventually.


I’m not sure I agree. Eichel is a top 10 centre. I doubt Zegras is going to be a top 10 centre (the same applies to 3rd overall, and Drysdale).
20 juin 2021 à 14 h 5
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Quoting: Saskleaf
I’m not sure I agree. Eichel is a top 10 centre. I doubt Zegras is going to be a top 10 centre (the same applies to 3rd overall, and Drysdale).


Let's assume that the chance of Zegras, Drysdale or the third overall pick turning out to be as impactful as Eichel is only one in four. That means that the chance that ANY ONE of them turns out to be as impactful as Eichel is almost 55%. Lower the chance of the individual success to one in five and we're still at roughly 49% for one of them to be a franchise cornerstone.

I'm happy with those odds without even beginning to factor in psychology, injury, etc.
20 juin 2021 à 14 h 32
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Quoting: OldNYIfan
Let's assume that the chance of Zegras, Drysdale or the third overall pick turning out to be as impactful as Eichel is only one in four. That means that the chance that ANY ONE of them turns out to be as impactful as Eichel is almost 55%. Lower the chance of the individual success to one in five and we're still at roughly 49% for one of them to be a franchise cornerstone.

I'm happy with those odds without even beginning to factor in psychology, injury, etc.


Obviously not all 3 are going to be in an Eichel deal. At the very most 2, like it's one of them plus.

So maybe I'm misunderstanding you but not sure why you have odds of all 3 players combined.
20 juin 2021 à 14 h 42
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Quoting: Saskleaf
Obviously not all 3 are going to be in an Eichel deal. At the very most 2, like it's one of them plus.

So maybe I'm misunderstanding you but not sure why you have odds of all 3 players combined.


Because you brought them up. My point is that if we have a good chance of an Eichel-equivalent player in our system already, why spend other valuable assets (including perhaps the franchise player himself) to acquire him?
20 juin 2021 à 15 h 16
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Quoting: OldNYIfan
Because you brought them up. My point is that if we have a good chance of an Eichel-equivalent player in our system already, why spend other valuable assets (including perhaps the franchise player himself) to acquire him?


What's wrong with having 2 franchise players?

Why not get Eichel if he only costs a little bit more (a couple good prospects maybe) than one of Zegras, Drysdale, or the 3rd overall pick, and he has a much better change of being the better player?
20 juin 2021 à 15 h 35
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Quoting: Saskleaf
What's wrong with having 2 franchise players?

Why not get Eichel if he only costs a little bit more (a couple good prospects maybe) than one of Zegras, Drysdale, or the 3rd overall pick, and he has a much better chance of being the better player?


Because having FOUR franchise players doesn't guarantee you even a first-round victory, as you well know. I'm not a big believer in the Super-Stars-and-Spear-Carriers theory of hockey asset management and team building. I'd really rather keep building quality throughout the lineup with at least the assets we already have in the system. (I'm perfectly willing to concede that we won't get Eichel without giving up that third overall pick this year.) I understand that Jack EIchel would immediately become the best player on the Ducks. But I'm not willing to concede becoming Buffalo West. Eichel is no good if there aren't really good players around him.

The problem I have with trading away two of those three prime assets is that the price is too much per se. And the problem I have with trading away even one of them is that the proposed deal also always includes at least one of our A prospects with NHL experience (Comtois and Terry) and one of our A prospects in the farm system (Tracey or Perreault). plus some additional useful asset(s). To me, the price isn't worth it. In short, Anaheim definitely could use Eichel, but doesn't have the disposable surplus assets likely required to land him.

Los Angeles, it seems to me, is in the exact opposite situation: the Kings have plenty of extra high-quality assets, but with Byfield, Turcotte and Vilardi already aboard behind Anze Kopitar (who's good for at least three more seasons), they don't have nearly the need for Eichel that Anaheim does.

My chief antipathy for either of my two crummy local teams acquiring Eichel AT THIS TIME is the uncertainty of his medical condition. I honestly believe that it would be GM malpractice to make any but the most affordable deal for Eichel before seeing him play at least half a season. And I'm always very suspicious of sales pitches that start out "And if you ACT NOW, . . . "
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20 juin 2021 à 15 h 48
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Quoting: OldNYIfan
Because having FOUR franchise players doesn't guarantee you even a first-round victory, as you well know. I'm not a big believer in the Super-Stars-and-Spear-Carriers theory of hockey asset management and team building. I'd really rather keep building quality throughout the lineup with at least the assets we already have in the system. (I'm perfectly willing to concede that we won't get Eichel without giving up that third overall pick this year.) I understand that Jack EIchel would immediately become the best player on the Ducks. But I'm not willing to concede becoming Buffalo West. Eichel is no good if there aren't really good players around him.

The problem I have with trading away two of those three prime assets is that the price is too much per se. And the problem I have with trading away even one of them is that the proposed deal also always includes at least one of our A prospects with NHL experience (Comtois and Terry) and one of our A prospects in the farm system (Tracey or Perreault). plus some additional useful asset(s). To me, the price isn't worth it. In short, Anaheim definitely could use Eichel, but doesn't have the disposable surplus assets likely required to land him.

Los Angeles, it seems to me, is in the exact opposite situation: the Kings have plenty of extra high-quality assets, but with Byfield, Turcotte and Vilardi already aboard behind Anze Kopitar (who's good for at least three more seasons), they don't have nearly the need for Eichel that Anaheim does.

My chief antipathy for either of my two crummy local teams acquiring Eichel AT THIS TIME is the uncertainty of his medical condition. I honestly believe that it would be GM malpractice to make any but the most affordable deal for Eichel before seeing him play at least half a season. And I'm always very suspicious of sales pitches that start out "And if you ACT NOW, . . . "


You make a good point. I'm not suggesting for them to do something like Zegras, Lunderstrom, Comtois, Tracey and Lindholm for Eichel or something crazy like that.

But if the offer is something like Zegras, Tracey and Steel, which is probably similar to what it will be, they need to take it.
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