Modifié 20 juin 2021 à 18 h 43
Quoting: ChiHawk
First of all, you aren't understanding how the Hawks scored this year. Outside of Kubalik, Cat, and Kane, the scoring was widely spread out. The Hawks offense is very balanced, the Leafs offense is completely top heavy on the first two lines, moreso first line. That's not the case with the Hawks. The top 3 lines are scoring so it's much more evenly spread out. Kane can play next to Suter, Vermette, Anisimov, etc. and still puts up a career numbers and almost always in discussion for the Hart unlike Marner. Marner has never proven he can be a top scorer in the league not next to Matthews 70% or JT the other 30% of the time...that's just a fact. It's also a fact, Marner can't take over a playoff game on his own and win it. He's had many opportunities to do so, but never has he had for example had a hat trick and put on an absolute clinic when the Leafs are down; I'm not talking about a game winning goal either I'm talking about dominating a playoff game to pull his team through on his own back. His success, directly correlates if Matthews is having a good to great game or not. If Matthews has a **** game, Marner isn't going to have a great game...it's a hand and glove situation. With Kane, it's never been that for him. Look at the MTL series, Marner looked like a rag doll falling all over the ice. I've NEVER seen Kane look that bad in a playoff series. For you to begin to pretend any differently tells me you haven't closely watched Kane's career and especially his playoff career or are simply too much of a homer to realize it.
Facts are facts; how many Hart votes has Marner received in his career and in the same duration has Kane received? Take any season they've both played. How about NHLPA awards; probably the best measuring stick as these are guys voting for guys they play against. There is simply no argument to be made that Marner is as good at this point. Maybe when Kane slows down, or maybe when Marner gets better, but the simple fact is, Marner sits on the wing of a guy who is a elite center in the league something Kane has never had and still has way more respect by the league and their peers for good reason.
Again, the Hawks spread their production more evenly then the Leafs. The Leafs are a two line team up front and have been for years. The Hawks this past two seasons have found offense, but they find it through guys they've picked up in Europe and guys on in the bottom 6 beyond Kane and Cat as the usual suspects. Fact is, the Hawks this season played with a 1C and 2C that would be a 3C on the Leafs; think about that.
Yes, and $3.6M in today's flat cap means a lot. Kubalik = $3.7M, Murphy = $3.8, Suter will get $2.5M'ish....it's nothing to sneeze at it's foolish argument on your end to say it shouldn't matter. It does and no, the Hawks don't want Marner for essentually $14.1M for the next 2 years and Kane isn't waiving to go to Toronto so it's a moot point to debate anymore. Good day
1. After Kane's first 5 seasons (AKA where Marner is RIGHT NOW at 23) Kane didn't receive any Hart trophy votes in his 1st, 2nd, 4th or 5th season, he finished 7th in Hart trophy voting in his 3rd season. Marner through his first 4 seasons despite outscoring Kane has not received any Hart trophy votes however that will change after this year (his 5th season) where he was 4th in league scoring. In Kane's first 8 seasons, he only received Hart trophy votes in 2 of them and never finished higher than 7th. Why exactly are you comparing the entirety of Kane's career to Marner's first 5?
Assuming Marner receives Hart trophy voting this season he'll only need to do it once more in the next 3 seasons to match what Kane did through his first 8 years.
2. You just proved you never watched the Leafs early young core during the Babcock era. I don't pretend to watch the Hawks and know all their players...no clue why you're pretending to do that with Marner. If you actually watched Marner during his ELC you'd realize that Babcock deployed him the same way you described Kane now. From Bozak and JVR on the 2nd line to Kadri on the 3rd as well as the occasional time spent on the 4th line. The Hawks current scoring distribution is how the early Leafs core teams were set up with Matthews on line 1, Marner on line 2 and Kadri-Nylander on line 3.
3. The numbers are literally there for you, Marner doesn't need Tavares or Matthews to go ppg...he went ppg in his 2nd season after being put with Kadri 1/2 through the season who nobody would mistake for Matthews or Tavares.
4. The Hawks top 2 centers would be 3C on the Leafs bc Matthews is a top 3-5 player in the league and Tavares is a borderline top 10 C...there are a decent amount of teams that you could make the case their top 2 C's would be the Leafs 3C.
5. Even if you made that Kane trade at 30% retained at signed those guys you mentioned at the $ you listed the Hawks would still have $21 million to sign the rest of those bottom 6 forwards.
6. Early Patrick Kane was by no means a consistent playoff beast that could take over a series, Kane only had 1 post season in his first 5 seasons that he finished ppg. Outside of their cup run he had 24 points in 29 playoff games after 5 seasons.