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Hamilton sign and trade

Créé par: Wadejos123
Équipe: 2021-22 Blackhawks de Chicago
Date de création initiale: 14 juin 2021
Publié: 14 juin 2021
Mode - plafond salarial: Basique
Signatures de joueurs autonomes
RFAANSCAP HIT
12 200 000 $
1900 000 $
31 500 000 $
31 800 000 $
13 500 000 $
UFAANSCAP HIT
88 500 000 $
Transactions
1.
CHI
    Hawks pay Regula and a 3rd for the 8th year of Hamilton and the right to sign him now and not wait till he hits UFA
    CAR
    1. Regula, Alec
    2. Choix de 3e ronde en 2022 (VGK)
    Détails additionnels:
    Regula is a 20 year old 3rd round pick in 2018. 6'4 right handed. 60 points in 54 games with the london nights in 2020 then played 16 games in the AHL and 3 in the NHL in 2021. He's worth more than a 3rd at this point but would be expendable if the hawks got hamilton.
    2.
    CHI
    1. Choix de 5e ronde en 2022 (OTT)
    OTT
    1. De Haan, Calvin
    2. Choix de 4e ronde en 2021 (CHI)
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    CHI
    SEA
    1. Gaudette, Adam [Droits de RFA]
    4.
    TBL
    1. Choix de 2e ronde en 2021 (VGK)
    Rachats de contrats
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    14 juin 2021 à 14 h 16
    #1
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    We don't need Hamilton, he's not very good defensively and while I understand the logic of pairing up Zadarov with him, Zadarov on the first line would get destroyed. Also, switching BoQ to his off side would be a giant mistake at this point in his young career. BoQ is the future 1st liner on the right until further notice, let's not disrupt that and have some patience.
    exo2769, SociallyHawkward, Wadejos123 and 1 other person a aimé ceci.
    14 juin 2021 à 14 h 20
    #2
    exo2769
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    I'd rather have Jones or Lindholm. Dougie takes too many risks. His version of defense is to keep the puck in the offensive zone. He takes ALOT of dumb penalities because of it. CAR has better Dmen than Chicago. Slavin is one of the most underrated Dmen in the NHL and Pesce is CARs version Nick Hjalmarrson. Dougie can afford to sell out on CARs team because they already have an Oduya/Hammer that can be Defensive Stoppers. The Hawks don't have those pieces yet.

    Additionally, it's easier to get offensive Dmen these days. The stay at home 2-way defenders are harder to come by.
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    14 juin 2021 à 14 h 22
    #3
    Kyle from Chicago
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    In my opinion the goal of a sign and trade (at least in this situation) should be to fit that extra year in the contract for the purpose of lowering the AAV from what would be given in free agency. In the presented ACGM post the hawks are paying for the extra year but the cap hit is still a relatively high 8.5 million dollars. In a perfect world, I think the hawks would be served well signing Hamilton to a 7 year 8 AAV contract this off-season (that is to say IF they planned on signing him, THIS contract is what I would be content with term and cap accounted for).

    I believe that the term of the 7-year contract is just long enough that the cap hit will not be a problem for more that 2-3 years at the tail end. If they add to that 7 year term then the contract obviously carries higher risk to become troublesome at the tail end and for that reason I think hawks should be compensated appropriately through the cap. That being said, I am comfortable with the prospect of offering him 56 million over 7 years in free agency, to make a sign and trade attractive for the hawks I would bump that offer up to 60 million over 8 years. This lowers that cap hit to 7.5 million instead of 8 and Hamilton gets an extra 4 million guaranteed money.
    14 juin 2021 à 14 h 27
    #4
    Kyle from Chicago
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    Quoting: ChiHawk
    We don't need Hamilton, he's not very good defensively and while I understand the logic of pairing up Zadarov with him, Zadarov on the first line would get destroyed. Also, switching BoQ to his off side would be a giant mistake at this point in his young career. BoQ is the future 1st liner on the right until further notice, let's not disrupt that and have some patience.


    Quoting: exo2769
    I'd rather have Jones or Lindholm. Dougie takes too many risks. His version of defense is to keep the puck in the offensive zone. He takes ALOT of dumb penalities because of it. CAR has better Dmen than Chicago. Slavin is one of the most underrated Dmen in the NHL and Pesce is CARs version Nick Hjalmarrson. Dougie can afford to sell out on CARs team because they already have an Oduya/Hammer that can be Defensive Stoppers. The Hawks don't have those pieces yet.

    Additionally, it's easier to get offensive Dmen these days. The stay at home 2-way defenders are harder to come by.


    I get what both of you are saying, but personally I am PRO getting good players. If the hawks can work something out with Hamilton then that is great and moves us closer to being a contender again. That doesn’t mean that we lose Boqvists potential and it doesn’t mean we can’t fill out the rest of the lineup with defensively minded partners. Adding a piece like Hamilton makes the club better and I would not be upset if they did or didn’t sign him.

    The idea of Z and Hamilton is terrible though, to the OP don’t do that again.
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    14 juin 2021 à 14 h 32
    #5
    Kyle from Chicago
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    Quoting: Stan_Bowman
    I get what both of you are saying, but personally I am PRO getting good players. If the hawks can work something out with Hamilton then that is great and moves us closer to being a contender again. That doesn’t mean that we lose Boqvists potential and it doesn’t mean we can’t fill out the rest of the lineup with defensively minded partners. Adding a piece like Hamilton makes the club better and I would not be upset if they did or didn’t sign him.

    The idea of Z and Hamilton is terrible though, to the OP don’t do that again.



    14 juin 2021 à 14 h 32
    #6
    exo2769
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    Modifié 14 juin 2021 à 14 h 39
    Quoting: Stan_Bowman
    I get what both of you are saying, but personally I am PRO getting good players. If the hawks can work something out with Hamilton then that is great and moves us closer to being a contender again. That doesn’t mean that we lose Boqvists potential and it doesn’t mean we can’t fill out the rest of the lineup with defensively minded partners. Adding a piece like Hamilton makes the club better and I would not be upset if they did or didn’t sign him.

    The idea of Z and Hamilton is terrible though, to the OP don’t do that again.


    I don't think anyone else wants to go out and purposely get bad players. It's how do you divide up $81.5M to get the best overall team. The offensive side of defense is pretty easy to acquire right now. Ghost is practically being given away. Boqvist can and likely should also be given that opportunity. I'd just prefer to spend $8-$8.5M on other qualities. It's my personally opinion (just one man's opinion) that what he brings is overrated. by overrated that doesn't mean he's bad at hockey...it means Erik Gustafsson technically has a 60 point season. We can find those guys and not pay an arm and a leg. Get a quality 2-way guy to pair those offensively minded players with.
    14 juin 2021 à 14 h 39
    #7
    Kyle from Chicago
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    Quoting: exo2769
    I don't think anyone else wants to go out and purposely get bad players. It's how do you divide up $81.5M to get the best overall team. The offensive side of defense is pretty easy to acquire right now. Ghost is practically being given away. Boqvist can and likely should also be given that opportunity. I'd just prefer to spend $8-$8.5M on other qualities. It' my personally opinion (just one man's opinion) that what he brings is overrated. by overrated that doesn't mean he's bad at hockey...it means Erik Gustafsson technically has a 60 point season. We can find those guys and not pay an arm and a leg. Get a quality 2-way guy to pair those offensively minded players with.


    Quoting: Stan_Bowman

    14 juin 2021 à 15 h 3
    #8
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    Quoting: Stan_Bowman
    I get what both of you are saying, but personally I am PRO getting good players. If the hawks can work something out with Hamilton then that is great and moves us closer to being a contender again. That doesn’t mean that we lose Boqvists potential and it doesn’t mean we can’t fill out the rest of the lineup with defensively minded partners. Adding a piece like Hamilton makes the club better and I would not be upset if they did or didn’t sign him.

    The idea of Z and Hamilton is terrible though, to the OP don’t do that again.


    I get that, but finding the right good players is more important then just getting good players. Hawks would be far better off in acquiring Lindholm or Jones then pursing Hamilton and furthermore, saving cap space for the right good player if Lindholm or Jones didn't work. There are plenty of good players in the NHL, it's finding the right ones that gel with a system and the team that makes the difference in making a team good.
    14 juin 2021 à 15 h 10
    #9
    Kyle from Chicago
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    Quoting: ChiHawk
    I get that, but finding the right good players is more important then just getting good players. Hawks would be far better off in acquiring Lindholm or Jones then pursing Hamilton and furthermore, saving cap space for the right good player if Lindholm or Jones didn't work. There are plenty of good players in the NHL, it's finding the right ones that gel with a system and the team that makes the difference in making a team good.


    I think accounting for the acquisition cost and risk factor of extending them without knowing how well they fit in is equal risk to signing a player like Hamilton. I suppose what I’m saying is that I would be much more inclined to bet on Hamilton in FA than the other players through trade.
    14 juin 2021 à 15 h 15
    #10
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    Quoting: Stan_Bowman
    I think accounting for the acquisition cost and risk factor of extending them without knowing how well they fit in is equal risk to signing a player like Hamilton. I suppose what I’m saying is that I would be much more inclined to bet on Hamilton in FA than the other players through trade.


    Well that's where scouting comes in. Obviously these are highly analyzed and contemplated decisions and the scouts know very well who the player they are targeting would be. Hamilton is simply a defensive liability and for a team that doesn't struggle with scoring but is at the bottom of the league in defense, dumping a big amount of cap into a offensive D man and taking up a D spot for a non defensive D man is just a bad move.
    14 juin 2021 à 15 h 40
    #11
    Kyle from Chicago
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    Quoting: ChiHawk
    Well that's where scouting comes in. Obviously these are highly analyzed and contemplated decisions and the scouts know very well who the player they are targeting would be. Hamilton is simply a defensive liability and for a team that doesn't struggle with scoring but is at the bottom of the league in defense, dumping a big amount of cap into a offensive D man and taking up a D spot for a non defensive D man is just a bad move.


    When reflecting on this season all too often I remember how bad we were at getting pucks out of our zone and through the neutral zone. While Boqvist has all of the potential in the world I ask you who else has the potential to be a puck moving D? Sure Kalynuk looks like he has some potential but all I see him as right now is a Gus clone... the team lead for points this season was 16 from Boqvist.

    Most of those assists were secondary as well meaning he wasn’t driving the offense being produced. The fact is that our defensive will be better next season if we have dougie because we will have to defend much less because we will have more D that are capable of moving the puck.



    14 juin 2021 à 15 h 59
    #12
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    Quoting: Stan_Bowman
    When reflecting on this season all too often I remember how bad we were at getting pucks out of our zone and through the neutral zone. While Boqvist has all of the potential in the world I ask you who else has the potential to be a puck moving D? Sure Kalynuk looks like he has some potential but all I see him as right now is a Gus clone... the team lead for points this season was 16 from Boqvist.

    Most of those assists were secondary as well meaning he wasn’t driving the offense being produced. The fact is that our defensive will be better next season if we have dougie because we will have to defend much less because we will have more D that are capable of moving the puck.





    That's fair. However, Mitchell, Kalynuk, BoQ, Beaudin, Regula (is a bit of tweener), Keith are all puck moving D men. They need more time to develop (all of them besides keith obviously), but they are all puck movers. Stillman, Murphy, Vlassic, Zadarov are the only defensive D men and besides Murphy, I don't see the other three as top 4 guys...maybe Vlassic will be. Therein lies the problem for the hawks. In order for a puck moving D man to be successful, even Hamilton, they need to be paired with a defensive D man...look at Hamilton's pairings for example. We simply have too many puck moving d men and not enough defensive d men.

    Problem with the fans is there is no patience. BoQ, Mitchell, Beaudin, Regula, Vlassic, Kalynuk are all going to be solid NHL players (notice all puck movers besides Vlassic); we need the patience to let these guys develop and in the meantime, focus on a defensive d man on the top line so we can pair correctly.

    xxxx - BoQ
    Keith - Murphy
    Stillman/Kalynuk - Mitchell/Regula

    That's where the gaping hole is IMO and the problem with Hamilton is it creates even a bigger hole.

    xxxx - Hamilton
    Keith - Murphy
    Stillman/Kalynuk - BoQ/Mitchell

    Who do you pair with Hamilton? You switch Murphy to his off side (which he is much better on the right) and then you leave a hole on the 2nd line as well. Bottom line, trying to patch a hole that doesn't need patching still leaves the same biggest hole on the team....a #1 LH defensive Dman. Additionally, Hamilton turns 28 this week, so now we commit $8.5M of cap as he is hitting his prime for a team that is 2 to 3 years away from competing just as Hamilton starts to come off his prime. I get Lindholm is only 7 months younger, but he is going to be cheaper and allows the Hawks to acquire a prospect to jump in and fill his shoes eventually in 3 to 4 years plus. With Hamilton, we already have the prospects who will all look a lot different in 3 to 4 years and thus negate the need for hamilton at which point, moving $8.5m for a 31or 32 year old isn't going to be as easy.

    Notice, I didn't list Beaudin, another puck mover, as needs another year in the AHL but he is coming along.
    14 juin 2021 à 16 h 33
    #13
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    Quoting: ChiHawk
    That's fair. However, Mitchell, Kalynuk, BoQ, Beaudin, Regula (is a bit of tweener), Keith are all puck moving D men. They need more time to develop (all of them besides keith obviously), but they are all puck movers. Stillman, Murphy, Vlassic, Zadarov are the only defensive D men and besides Murphy, I don't see the other three as top 4 guys...maybe Vlassic will be. Therein lies the problem for the hawks. In order for a puck moving D man to be successful, even Hamilton, they need to be paired with a defensive D man...look at Hamilton's pairings for example. We simply have too many puck moving d men and not enough defensive d men.

    Problem with the fans is there is no patience. BoQ, Mitchell, Beaudin, Regula, Vlassic, Kalynuk are all going to be solid NHL players (notice all puck movers besides Vlassic); we need the patience to let these guys develop and in the meantime, focus on a defensive d man on the top line so we can pair correctly.

    xxxx - BoQ
    Keith - Murphy
    Stillman/Kalynuk - Mitchell/Regula

    That's where the gaping hole is IMO and the problem with Hamilton is it creates even a bigger hole.

    xxxx - Hamilton
    Keith - Murphy
    Stillman/Kalynuk - BoQ/Mitchell

    Who do you pair with Hamilton? You switch Murphy to his off side (which he is much better on the right) and then you leave a hole on the 2nd line as well. Bottom line, trying to patch a hole that doesn't need patching still leaves the same biggest hole on the team....a #1 LH defensive Dman. Additionally, Hamilton turns 28 this week, so now we commit $8.5M of cap as he is hitting his prime for a team that is 2 to 3 years away from competing just as Hamilton starts to come off his prime. I get Lindholm is only 7 months younger, but he is going to be cheaper and allows the Hawks to acquire a prospect to jump in and fill his shoes eventually in 3 to 4 years plus. With Hamilton, we already have the prospects who will all look a lot different in 3 to 4 years and thus negate the need for hamilton at which point, moving $8.5m for a 31or 32 year old isn't going to be as easy.

    Notice, I didn't list Beaudin, another puck mover, as needs another year in the AHL but he is coming along.


    Murphy-Hamilton
    Zadorov-Boqvist
    Kieth-Mitchell
    Kalynuk

    ??

    I know you don't like Zad but I really don't think he's as bad as you think. We could also trade him and sign martinez.

    Murphy-Hamilton
    Martinez-Boqvist
    Kieth-Mitchell
    Kalynuk

    Thats a D core that can contend. Martinez to a 1 or 2 year deal so Beaudan can step in in a year (or better yet beaudan steps in for kieth in another year)
    14 juin 2021 à 17 h 31
    #14
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    Quoting: Wadejos123
    Murphy-Hamilton
    Zadorov-Boqvist
    Kieth-Mitchell
    Kalynuk

    ??

    I know you don't like Zad but I really don't think he's as bad as you think. We could also trade him and sign martinez.

    Murphy-Hamilton
    Martinez-Boqvist
    Kieth-Mitchell
    Kalynuk

    Thats a D core that can contend. Martinez to a 1 or 2 year deal so Beaudan can step in in a year (or better yet beaudan steps in for kieth in another year)


    Murphy playing on his off-side isn't a great idea. He's a fringe first liner to being with, but throwing him on his off-side and he's not better then a 2nd liner.

    Have some patience with our young guys...that's the gist of what we need to do when it comes to Hamilton. It's cap money not well spent IMO. Get Lindholm, even in a year we can get him as a UFA. Hawks aren't competing for a cup for 2 to 3 years so no need to acquire a guy that is going to be 31 years old and carrying a $8.5M cap hit for another 4 years when BoQ should be taking that spot and be the future for this team.

    Furthermore, we are going to be in cap trouble next year. Dach, Murphy, Kubalik, BoQ, Lankinen, Strome, Kurashev. We need to reserve $10M+ in cap space this year to put us in a good position for next year cap wise.
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    14 juin 2021 à 17 h 33
    #15
    Bedard23
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    Really you did nothing about the goaltending?
    14 juin 2021 à 17 h 34
    #16
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    Quoting: ChiHawk
    Murphy playing on his off-side isn't a great idea. He's a fringe first liner to being with, but throwing him on his off-side and he's not better then a 2nd liner.

    Have some patience with our young guys...that's the gist of what we need to do when it comes to Hamilton. It's cap money not well spent IMO. Get Lindholm, even in a year we can get him as a UFA. Hawks aren't competing for a cup for 2 to 3 years so no need to acquire a guy that isn't going to be 31 years old and carrying a $8.5M cap hit for another 4 years.


    At a minimum I think martinez as a stop gap would be a smart idea on a one of two year deal. Kieth can't play 22+ mins per game any more. Some one needs to take that pressure off, and I don't think it's going to be beaudan/stillman/kalynuk
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    14 juin 2021 à 17 h 35
    #17
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    Quoting: IconicHawk
    Really you did nothing about the goaltending?


    Hawks fans believe in Lankinen, I do at least. I think subban is a perfetcly capeable backup. His stats would look a lot better if he played behind a better defence like this one
    14 juin 2021 à 17 h 36
    #18
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    Quoting: Wadejos123
    Hawks fans believe in Lankinen, I do at least. I think subban is a perfetcly capeable backup. His stats would look a lot better if he played behind a better defence like this one


    I think a backup is all we need and I don’t have full confidence Subban
    14 juin 2021 à 17 h 39
    #19
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    Quoting: Wadejos123
    At a minimum I think martinez as a stop gap would be a smart idea on a one of two year deal. Kieth can't play 22+ mins per game any more. Some one needs to take that pressure off, and I don't think it's going to be beaudan/stillman/kalynuk


    I agree Martinez is a likely move for that reason under a 1 to 3 year deal, but again, I'd be putting a lot of pressure on Anaheim by giving them Strome (they need a center) and Zadarov or Beaudin and possibly a pick to acquire Lindholm and extend him. Lindholm better fits the timeline and plays the type of game that would make a great pairing with BoQ...not to mention they're both swedish.
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    14 juin 2021 à 17 h 41
    #20
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    Quoting: Wadejos123
    Hawks fans believe in Lankinen, I do at least. I think subban is a perfetcly capeable backup. His stats would look a lot better if he played behind a better defence like this one


    Quoting: IconicHawk
    I think a backup is all we need and I don’t have full confidence Subban


    Delia. I think Delia is better then Subban but like most goalies, he's just needed more time to develop. He has a .905 save percentage behind a ****ty defense so far in his career. Drew Commesso is still a few years away but maybe that huge acquisition from the SHL we got will pan out as well. Bottom line, backup goalies aren't hard to find if this team is in the thick of the playoff race come playoff time and Delia or the Swede isn't up to the task.
    Wadejos123 a aimé ceci.
    14 juin 2021 à 18 h 4
    #21
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    Quoting: ChiHawk
    I agree Martinez is a likely move for that reason under a 1 to 3 year deal, but again, I'd be putting a lot of pressure on Anaheim by giving them Strome (they need a center) and Zadarov or Beaudin and possibly a pick to acquire Lindholm and extend him. Lindholm better fits the timeline and plays the type of game that would make a great pairing with BoQ...not to mention they're both swedish.


    If we can get Lindholm without moving a 1st thats a home run move, but I would rather draft at 11 than trade that pick + for lindholm. You didn't mention Seth jones but i'll just add i'm way out on seth jones. overrated
    ChiHawk a aimé ceci.
    14 juin 2021 à 20 h 37
    #22
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    Quoting: Wadejos123
    If we can get Lindholm without moving a 1st thats a home run move, but I would rather draft at 11 than trade that pick + for lindholm. You didn't mention Seth jones but i'll just add i'm way out on seth jones. overrated


    I think we can get Lindholm for something like Strome + Beaudin + 2nd/3rd or Strome + Kurashev + 2nd/3rd. Ducks are rebuilding and at the bottom, can't see them keeping Lindholm when they can get a 24 year center plus another younger asset like Beaudin or Kurashev plus a pick.
     
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