Forums/Armchair-GM

Hamilton sign and trade

Créé par: Wadejos123
Date de création initiale: jun 14, 2021
Publié: 14 jun à 13 h 57
Équipe: 2021-22 Blackhawks de Chicago
Signatures de joueurs autonomes
RFAANSCAP HIT
Suter, Pius12 200 000 $
Nylander, Alexander1900 000 $
Kämpf, David31 500 000 $
Hagel, Brandon31 800 000 $
Zadorov, Nikita13 500 000 $
UFAANSCAP HIT
Hamilton, Dougie88 500 000 $
Transactions
CHI
    Hawks pay Regula and a 3rd for the 8th year of Hamilton and the right to sign him now and not wait till he hits UFA
    CAR
    1. Regula, Alec
    2. 2022 3e round pick (VGK)
    Détails additionnels:
    Regula is a 20 year old 3rd round pick in 2018. 6'4 right handed. 60 points in 54 games with the london nights in 2020 then played 16 games in the AHL and 3 in the NHL in 2021. He's worth more than a 3rd at this point but would be expendable if the hawks got hamilton.
    CHI
    1. 2022 5e round pick (OTT)
    OTT
    1. De Haan, Calvin
    2. 2021 4e round pick (CHI)
    CHI
      SEA
      1. Gaudette, Adam [Droits de RFA]
      CHI
      1. Killorn, Alex
      TBL
      1. 2021 2e round pick (VGK)
      Rachats de contrats
      • Brett Connolly: 1 166 667 $
      Transactions impliquant une retenue de salaire
      • Olli Määttä: 750 108 $ (18%)
      Enfoui
      • Riley Stillman: 225 000 $ (1 350 000 $)
      ANNÉE DE REPÊCHAGERONDE 1RONDE 2RONDE 3RONDE 4RONDE 5RONDE 6RONDE 7
      2021
      CHI
      CHI
      VAN
      CHI
      CHI
      FLA
      2022
      CHI
      CHI
      CHI
      CHI
      OTT
      CHI
      CHI
      2023
      CHI
      CHI
      CHI
      CHI
      CHI
      CHI
      CHI
      TAILLE DE LA FORMATIONPLAFOND SALARIALCAP HITEXCÉDENTS BONISESPACE SOUS LE PLAFOND SALARIAL
      2281 500 000 $76 094 343 $452 439 $5 082 500 $5 405 657 $
      Ailier gaucheCentreAilier droit
      CHI
      DeBrincat, Alex
      6 400 000 $
      AG, AD
      RFA - 2
      CHI
      Dach, Kirby
      925 000 $
      C, AD
      RFA - 1
      CHI
      Kane, Patrick
      10 500 000 $
      AD
      NMC
      UFA - 2
      TBL
      Killorn, Alex
      4 450 000 $
      AG
      NTC
      UFA - 2
      CHI
      Toews, Jonathan
      10 500 000 $
      C
      NMC
      UFA - 2
      CHI
      Kubalik, Dominik
      3 700 000 $
      AG
      RFA - 1
      CHI
      Strome, Dylan
      3 000 000 $
      C, AG
      RFA - 1
      CHI
      Suter, Pius
      2 200 000 $
      C, AG
      RFA
      CHI
      Hagel, Brandon
      1 800 000 $
      AG
      RFA
      CHI
      Kurashev, Philipp
      842 500 $
      AG, AD
      RFA - 1
      CHI
      Kämpf, David
      1 500 000 $
      C, AD
      RFA
      CHI
      Carpenter, Ryan
      1 000 000 $
      AD, C
      UFA - 1
      Défenseur gaucherDéfenseur droitierGardien de but
      CHI
      Zadorov, Nikita
      3 500 000 $
      DG/DD
      RFA
      Hamilton, Dougie
      8 500 000 $
      DD
      UFA
      CHI
      Lankinen, Kevin
      800 000 $
      G
      UFA - 1
      CHI
      Boqvist, Adam
      894 167 $
      DD
      RFA - 1
      CHI
      Murphy, Connor
      3 850 000 $
      DD
      UFA - 1
      CHI
      Subban, Malcolm
      850 000 $
      G
      UFA - 1
      CHI
      Keith, Duncan
      5 538 462 $
      DG
      NMC
      UFA - 2
      CHI
      Mitchell, Ian
      925 000 $
      DD
      RFA - 2
      Laissés de côtéListe des blessés (IR)Liste des blessés à long terme (LTIR)
      CHI
      Nylander, Alexander
      900 000 $
      AD, AG
      RFA
      CHI
      Seabrook, Brent
      6 875 000 $
      DD
      NMC
      UFA - 3
      CHI
      Kalynuk, Wyatt
      925 000 $
      DG
      RFA - 1
      CHI
      Shaw, Andrew
      3 900 000 $
      C, AD
      UFA - 1

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      14 jun à 14 h 16
      #1
      Rejoint: avr 2017
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      We don't need Hamilton, he's not very good defensively and while I understand the logic of pairing up Zadarov with him, Zadarov on the first line would get destroyed. Also, switching BoQ to his off side would be a giant mistake at this point in his young career. BoQ is the future 1st liner on the right until further notice, let's not disrupt that and have some patience.
      exo2769, SociallyHawkward, Wadejos123 and 1 other person a aimé ceci.
      14 jun à 14 h 20
      #2
      exo2769
      Rejoint: jui 2015
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      I'd rather have Jones or Lindholm. Dougie takes too many risks. His version of defense is to keep the puck in the offensive zone. He takes ALOT of dumb penalities because of it. CAR has better Dmen than Chicago. Slavin is one of the most underrated Dmen in the NHL and Pesce is CARs version Nick Hjalmarrson. Dougie can afford to sell out on CARs team because they already have an Oduya/Hammer that can be Defensive Stoppers. The Hawks don't have those pieces yet.

      Additionally, it's easier to get offensive Dmen these days. The stay at home 2-way defenders are harder to come by.
      SociallyHawkward, Wadejos123, ChiHawk and 1 other person a aimé ceci.
      14 jun à 14 h 22
      #3
      I am a defeated man
      Rejoint: fév 2018
      Messages: 6,942
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      In my opinion the goal of a sign and trade (at least in this situation) should be to fit that extra year in the contract for the purpose of lowering the AAV from what would be given in free agency. In the presented ACGM post the hawks are paying for the extra year but the cap hit is still a relatively high 8.5 million dollars. In a perfect world, I think the hawks would be served well signing Hamilton to a 7 year 8 AAV contract this off-season (that is to say IF they planned on signing him, THIS contract is what I would be content with term and cap accounted for).

      I believe that the term of the 7-year contract is just long enough that the cap hit will not be a problem for more that 2-3 years at the tail end. If they add to that 7 year term then the contract obviously carries higher risk to become troublesome at the tail end and for that reason I think hawks should be compensated appropriately through the cap. That being said, I am comfortable with the prospect of offering him 56 million over 7 years in free agency, to make a sign and trade attractive for the hawks I would bump that offer up to 60 million over 8 years. This lowers that cap hit to 7.5 million instead of 8 and Hamilton gets an extra 4 million guaranteed money.
      14 jun à 14 h 27
      #4
      I am a defeated man
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      Quoting: ChiHawk
      We don't need Hamilton, he's not very good defensively and while I understand the logic of pairing up Zadarov with him, Zadarov on the first line would get destroyed. Also, switching BoQ to his off side would be a giant mistake at this point in his young career. BoQ is the future 1st liner on the right until further notice, let's not disrupt that and have some patience.


      Quoting: exo2769
      I'd rather have Jones or Lindholm. Dougie takes too many risks. His version of defense is to keep the puck in the offensive zone. He takes ALOT of dumb penalities because of it. CAR has better Dmen than Chicago. Slavin is one of the most underrated Dmen in the NHL and Pesce is CARs version Nick Hjalmarrson. Dougie can afford to sell out on CARs team because they already have an Oduya/Hammer that can be Defensive Stoppers. The Hawks don't have those pieces yet.

      Additionally, it's easier to get offensive Dmen these days. The stay at home 2-way defenders are harder to come by.


      I get what both of you are saying, but personally I am PRO getting good players. If the hawks can work something out with Hamilton then that is great and moves us closer to being a contender again. That doesn’t mean that we lose Boqvists potential and it doesn’t mean we can’t fill out the rest of the lineup with defensively minded partners. Adding a piece like Hamilton makes the club better and I would not be upset if they did or didn’t sign him.

      The idea of Z and Hamilton is terrible though, to the OP don’t do that again.
      Wadejos123 a aimé ceci.
      14 jun à 14 h 32
      #5
      I am a defeated man
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      Quoting: Stan_Bowman
      I get what both of you are saying, but personally I am PRO getting good players. If the hawks can work something out with Hamilton then that is great and moves us closer to being a contender again. That doesn’t mean that we lose Boqvists potential and it doesn’t mean we can’t fill out the rest of the lineup with defensively minded partners. Adding a piece like Hamilton makes the club better and I would not be upset if they did or didn’t sign him.

      The idea of Z and Hamilton is terrible though, to the OP don’t do that again.



      14 jun à 14 h 32
      #6
      exo2769
      Rejoint: jui 2015
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      Modifié 14 jun à 14 h 39
      Quoting: Stan_Bowman
      I get what both of you are saying, but personally I am PRO getting good players. If the hawks can work something out with Hamilton then that is great and moves us closer to being a contender again. That doesn’t mean that we lose Boqvists potential and it doesn’t mean we can’t fill out the rest of the lineup with defensively minded partners. Adding a piece like Hamilton makes the club better and I would not be upset if they did or didn’t sign him.

      The idea of Z and Hamilton is terrible though, to the OP don’t do that again.


      I don't think anyone else wants to go out and purposely get bad players. It's how do you divide up $81.5M to get the best overall team. The offensive side of defense is pretty easy to acquire right now. Ghost is practically being given away. Boqvist can and likely should also be given that opportunity. I'd just prefer to spend $8-$8.5M on other qualities. It's my personally opinion (just one man's opinion) that what he brings is overrated. by overrated that doesn't mean he's bad at hockey...it means Erik Gustafsson technically has a 60 point season. We can find those guys and not pay an arm and a leg. Get a quality 2-way guy to pair those offensively minded players with.
      14 jun à 14 h 39
      #7
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      Quoting: exo2769
      I don't think anyone else wants to go out and purposely get bad players. It's how do you divide up $81.5M to get the best overall team. The offensive side of defense is pretty easy to acquire right now. Ghost is practically being given away. Boqvist can and likely should also be given that opportunity. I'd just prefer to spend $8-$8.5M on other qualities. It' my personally opinion (just one man's opinion) that what he brings is overrated. by overrated that doesn't mean he's bad at hockey...it means Erik Gustafsson technically has a 60 point season. We can find those guys and not pay an arm and a leg. Get a quality 2-way guy to pair those offensively minded players with.


      Quoting: Stan_Bowman

      14 jun à 15 h 03
      #8
      Rejoint: avr 2017
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      Quoting: Stan_Bowman
      I get what both of you are saying, but personally I am PRO getting good players. If the hawks can work something out with Hamilton then that is great and moves us closer to being a contender again. That doesn’t mean that we lose Boqvists potential and it doesn’t mean we can’t fill out the rest of the lineup with defensively minded partners. Adding a piece like Hamilton makes the club better and I would not be upset if they did or didn’t sign him.

      The idea of Z and Hamilton is terrible though, to the OP don’t do that again.


      I get that, but finding the right good players is more important then just getting good players. Hawks would be far better off in acquiring Lindholm or Jones then pursing Hamilton and furthermore, saving cap space for the right good player if Lindholm or Jones didn't work. There are plenty of good players in the NHL, it's finding the right ones that gel with a system and the team that makes the difference in making a team good.
      14 jun à 15 h 10
      #9
      I am a defeated man
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      Quoting: ChiHawk
      I get that, but finding the right good players is more important then just getting good players. Hawks would be far better off in acquiring Lindholm or Jones then pursing Hamilton and furthermore, saving cap space for the right good player if Lindholm or Jones didn't work. There are plenty of good players in the NHL, it's finding the right ones that gel with a system and the team that makes the difference in making a team good.


      I think accounting for the acquisition cost and risk factor of extending them without knowing how well they fit in is equal risk to signing a player like Hamilton. I suppose what I’m saying is that I would be much more inclined to bet on Hamilton in FA than the other players through trade.
      14 jun à 15 h 15
      #10
      Rejoint: avr 2017
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      Quoting: Stan_Bowman
      I think accounting for the acquisition cost and risk factor of extending them without knowing how well they fit in is equal risk to signing a player like Hamilton. I suppose what I’m saying is that I would be much more inclined to bet on Hamilton in FA than the other players through trade.


      Well that's where scouting comes in. Obviously these are highly analyzed and contemplated decisions and the scouts know very well who the player they are targeting would be. Hamilton is simply a defensive liability and for a team that doesn't struggle with scoring but is at the bottom of the league in defense, dumping a big amount of cap into a offensive D man and taking up a D spot for a non defensive D man is just a bad move.
      14 jun à 15 h 40
      #11
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      Quoting: ChiHawk
      Well that's where scouting comes in. Obviously these are highly analyzed and contemplated decisions and the scouts know very well who the player they are targeting would be. Hamilton is simply a defensive liability and for a team that doesn't struggle with scoring but is at the bottom of the league in defense, dumping a big amount of cap into a offensive D man and taking up a D spot for a non defensive D man is just a bad move.


      When reflecting on this season all too often I remember how bad we were at getting pucks out of our zone and through the neutral zone. While Boqvist has all of the potential in the world I ask you who else has the potential to be a puck moving D? Sure Kalynuk looks like he has some potential but all I see him as right now is a Gus clone... the team lead for points this season was 16 from Boqvist.

      Most of those assists were secondary as well meaning he wasn’t driving the offense being produced. The fact is that our defensive will be better next season if we have dougie because we will have to defend much less because we will have more D that are capable of moving the puck.



      14 jun à 15 h 59
      #12
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      Quoting: Stan_Bowman
      When reflecting on this season all too often I remember how bad we were at getting pucks out of our zone and through the neutral zone. While Boqvist has all of the potential in the world I ask you who else has the potential to be a puck moving D? Sure Kalynuk looks like he has some potential but all I see him as right now is a Gus clone... the team lead for points this season was 16 from Boqvist.

      Most of those assists were secondary as well meaning he wasn’t driving the offense being produced. The fact is that our defensive will be better next season if we have dougie because we will have to defend much less because we will have more D that are capable of moving the puck.





      That's fair. However, Mitchell, Kalynuk, BoQ, Beaudin, Regula (is a bit of tweener), Keith are all puck moving D men. They need more time to develop (all of them besides keith obviously), but they are all puck movers. Stillman, Murphy, Vlassic, Zadarov are the only defensive D men and besides Murphy, I don't see the other three as top 4 guys...maybe Vlassic will be. Therein lies the problem for the hawks. In order for a puck moving D man to be successful, even Hamilton, they need to be paired with a defensive D man...look at Hamilton's pairings for example. We simply have too many puck moving d men and not enough defensive d men.

      Problem with the fans is there is no patience. BoQ, Mitchell, Beaudin, Regula, Vlassic, Kalynuk are all going to be solid NHL players (notice all puck movers besides Vlassic); we need the patience to let these guys develop and in the meantime, focus on a defensive d man on the top line so we can pair correctly.

      xxxx - BoQ
      Keith - Murphy
      Stillman/Kalynuk - Mitchell/Regula

      That's where the gaping hole is IMO and the problem with Hamilton is it creates even a bigger hole.

      xxxx - Hamilton
      Keith - Murphy
      Stillman/Kalynuk - BoQ/Mitchell

      Who do you pair with Hamilton? You switch Murphy to his off side (which he is much better on the right) and then you leave a hole on the 2nd line as well. Bottom line, trying to patch a hole that doesn't need patching still leaves the same biggest hole on the team....a #1 LH defensive Dman. Additionally, Hamilton turns 28 this week, so now we commit $8.5M of cap as he is hitting his prime for a team that is 2 to 3 years away from competing just as Hamilton starts to come off his prime. I get Lindholm is only 7 months younger, but he is going to be cheaper and allows the Hawks to acquire a prospect to jump in and fill his shoes eventually in 3 to 4 years plus. With Hamilton, we already have the prospects who will all look a lot different in 3 to 4 years and thus negate the need for hamilton at which point, moving $8.5m for a 31or 32 year old isn't going to be as easy.

      Notice, I didn't list Beaudin, another puck mover, as needs another year in the AHL but he is coming along.
      14 jun à 16 h 33
      #13
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      Quoting: ChiHawk
      That's fair. However, Mitchell, Kalynuk, BoQ, Beaudin, Regula (is a bit of tweener), Keith are all puck moving D men. They need more time to develop (all of them besides keith obviously), but they are all puck movers. Stillman, Murphy, Vlassic, Zadarov are the only defensive D men and besides Murphy, I don't see the other three as top 4 guys...maybe Vlassic will be. Therein lies the problem for the hawks. In order for a puck moving D man to be successful, even Hamilton, they need to be paired with a defensive D man...look at Hamilton's pairings for example. We simply have too many puck moving d men and not enough defensive d men.

      Problem with the fans is there is no patience. BoQ, Mitchell, Beaudin, Regula, Vlassic, Kalynuk are all going to be solid NHL players (notice all puck movers besides Vlassic); we need the patience to let these guys develop and in the meantime, focus on a defensive d man on the top line so we can pair correctly.

      xxxx - BoQ
      Keith - Murphy
      Stillman/Kalynuk - Mitchell/Regula

      That's where the gaping hole is IMO and the problem with Hamilton is it creates even a bigger hole.

      xxxx - Hamilton
      Keith - Murphy
      Stillman/Kalynuk - BoQ/Mitchell

      Who do you pair with Hamilton? You switch Murphy to his off side (which he is much better on the right) and then you leave a hole on the 2nd line as well. Bottom line, trying to patch a hole that doesn't need patching still leaves the same biggest hole on the team....a #1 LH defensive Dman. Additionally, Hamilton turns 28 this week, so now we commit $8.5M of cap as he is hitting his prime for a team that is 2 to 3 years away from competing just as Hamilton starts to come off his prime. I get Lindholm is only 7 months younger, but he is going to be cheaper and allows the Hawks to acquire a prospect to jump in and fill his shoes eventually in 3 to 4 years plus. With Hamilton, we already have the prospects who will all look a lot different in 3 to 4 years and thus negate the need for hamilton at which point, moving $8.5m for a 31or 32 year old isn't going to be as easy.

      Notice, I didn't list Beaudin, another puck mover, as needs another year in the AHL but he is coming along.


      Murphy-Hamilton
      Zadorov-Boqvist
      Kieth-Mitchell
      Kalynuk

      ??

      I know you don't like Zad but I really don't think he's as bad as you think. We could also trade him and sign martinez.

      Murphy-Hamilton
      Martinez-Boqvist
      Kieth-Mitchell
      Kalynuk

      Thats a D core that can contend. Martinez to a 1 or 2 year deal so Beaudan can step in in a year (or better yet beaudan steps in for kieth in another year)
      14 jun à 17 h 31
      #14
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      Quoting: Wadejos123
      Murphy-Hamilton
      Zadorov-Boqvist
      Kieth-Mitchell
      Kalynuk

      ??

      I know you don't like Zad but I really don't think he's as bad as you think. We could also trade him and sign martinez.

      Murphy-Hamilton
      Martinez-Boqvist
      Kieth-Mitchell
      Kalynuk

      Thats a D core that can contend. Martinez to a 1 or 2 year deal so Beaudan can step in in a year (or better yet beaudan steps in for kieth in another year)


      Murphy playing on his off-side isn't a great idea. He's a fringe first liner to being with, but throwing him on his off-side and he's not better then a 2nd liner.

      Have some patience with our young guys...that's the gist of what we need to do when it comes to Hamilton. It's cap money not well spent IMO. Get Lindholm, even in a year we can get him as a UFA. Hawks aren't competing for a cup for 2 to 3 years so no need to acquire a guy that is going to be 31 years old and carrying a $8.5M cap hit for another 4 years when BoQ should be taking that spot and be the future for this team.

      Furthermore, we are going to be in cap trouble next year. Dach, Murphy, Kubalik, BoQ, Lankinen, Strome, Kurashev. We need to reserve $10M+ in cap space this year to put us in a good position for next year cap wise.
      Wadejos123 a aimé ceci.
      14 jun à 17 h 33
      #15
      Dach is Elite
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      Really you did nothing about the goaltending?
      14 jun à 17 h 34
      #16
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      Quoting: ChiHawk
      Murphy playing on his off-side isn't a great idea. He's a fringe first liner to being with, but throwing him on his off-side and he's not better then a 2nd liner.

      Have some patience with our young guys...that's the gist of what we need to do when it comes to Hamilton. It's cap money not well spent IMO. Get Lindholm, even in a year we can get him as a UFA. Hawks aren't competing for a cup for 2 to 3 years so no need to acquire a guy that isn't going to be 31 years old and carrying a $8.5M cap hit for another 4 years.


      At a minimum I think martinez as a stop gap would be a smart idea on a one of two year deal. Kieth can't play 22+ mins per game any more. Some one needs to take that pressure off, and I don't think it's going to be beaudan/stillman/kalynuk
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      14 jun à 17 h 35
      #17
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      Quoting: IconicHawk
      Really you did nothing about the goaltending?


      Hawks fans believe in Lankinen, I do at least. I think subban is a perfetcly capeable backup. His stats would look a lot better if he played behind a better defence like this one
      14 jun à 17 h 36
      #18
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      Quoting: Wadejos123
      Hawks fans believe in Lankinen, I do at least. I think subban is a perfetcly capeable backup. His stats would look a lot better if he played behind a better defence like this one


      I think a backup is all we need and I don’t have full confidence Subban
      14 jun à 17 h 39
      #19
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      Quoting: Wadejos123
      At a minimum I think martinez as a stop gap would be a smart idea on a one of two year deal. Kieth can't play 22+ mins per game any more. Some one needs to take that pressure off, and I don't think it's going to be beaudan/stillman/kalynuk


      I agree Martinez is a likely move for that reason under a 1 to 3 year deal, but again, I'd be putting a lot of pressure on Anaheim by giving them Strome (they need a center) and Zadarov or Beaudin and possibly a pick to acquire Lindholm and extend him. Lindholm better fits the timeline and plays the type of game that would make a great pairing with BoQ...not to mention they're both swedish.
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      14 jun à 17 h 41
      #20
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      Quoting: Wadejos123
      Hawks fans believe in Lankinen, I do at least. I think subban is a perfetcly capeable backup. His stats would look a lot better if he played behind a better defence like this one


      Quoting: IconicHawk
      I think a backup is all we need and I don’t have full confidence Subban


      Delia. I think Delia is better then Subban but like most goalies, he's just needed more time to develop. He has a .905 save percentage behind a ****ty defense so far in his career. Drew Commesso is still a few years away but maybe that huge acquisition from the SHL we got will pan out as well. Bottom line, backup goalies aren't hard to find if this team is in the thick of the playoff race come playoff time and Delia or the Swede isn't up to the task.
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      14 jun à 18 h 04
      #21
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      Quoting: ChiHawk
      I agree Martinez is a likely move for that reason under a 1 to 3 year deal, but again, I'd be putting a lot of pressure on Anaheim by giving them Strome (they need a center) and Zadarov or Beaudin and possibly a pick to acquire Lindholm and extend him. Lindholm better fits the timeline and plays the type of game that would make a great pairing with BoQ...not to mention they're both swedish.


      If we can get Lindholm without moving a 1st thats a home run move, but I would rather draft at 11 than trade that pick + for lindholm. You didn't mention Seth jones but i'll just add i'm way out on seth jones. overrated
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      14 jun à 20 h 37
      #22
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      Quoting: Wadejos123
      If we can get Lindholm without moving a 1st thats a home run move, but I would rather draft at 11 than trade that pick + for lindholm. You didn't mention Seth jones but i'll just add i'm way out on seth jones. overrated


      I think we can get Lindholm for something like Strome + Beaudin + 2nd/3rd or Strome + Kurashev + 2nd/3rd. Ducks are rebuilding and at the bottom, can't see them keeping Lindholm when they can get a 24 year center plus another younger asset like Beaudin or Kurashev plus a pick.
       
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